Electrum wallet access re-instatement, restore

[markrockny]

Hello,
Here is a situation:
Computer #1:
- Electrum wallet - password has been lost
- I have a seed phrase which I believe, but not 100% sure, is for the same Electrum wallet
Computer #2:
- I restored an Electrum wallet using the above mentioned seed phrase
Questions:
1. Assuming that I did restore the same wallet that's on Computer#1, does the wallet restored on Computer#2 contain 100% of the assets which are in the wallet on Computer#1? If yes, then I don't need to engage into the breaking of the password using for example JohnTheRipper.
2. Except when the wallets are different, i.e. with different seeds, are there any situations when the restored wallet(using a seed) and its version before the restore would be out of sync?
3. What wallet actions besides the transactions (buy/sell, send/receive, etc.) can change the wallet file's last modified date/time?
I would appreciate a helpful info or pointers to useful resources on the above situation. The assets in this wallet are worth a significant $ amount which I would not want to lose.
thanks

[Zaguru12]

1. Assuming that I did restore the same wallet that's on Computer#1, does the wallet restored on Computer#2 contain 100% of the assets which are in the wallet on Computer#1? If yes, then I don't need to engage into the breaking of the password using for example JohnTheRipper.

If the seed phrase you actually did restored on the second computer was actually for the first computer then there is no need to restore the wallet using the wallet file again. The Password is not Also needed when restoring using seed phrase. You don’t need to engage in any breaking of wallet. Restoring from wallet file is needed when only you don’t have the seed phrase

[hosseinimr93]

1.
Your seed phrase is all you need to recover your wallet and as mentioned above by Zaguru12 above, you don't need the password when restoring your wallet from seed phrase.
Take note that all your addresses are derived from your seed phrase and you should see the entire balance and all transactions in computer 2 unless there's transaction associated with an address generated beyond the gap limit.

The default gap limit on electrum is 20 and that means that electrum generates more and more addresses and displays their transactions history until it reaches 20 consecutive unused addresses.


2.
You will get different address in the restored wallet if you use an incorrect derivation path.
In the case the seed phrase has been generated by electrum, there shouldn't be any issues with derivation path because Electrum uses a fixed derivation path and the script type is encoded in the seed phrase.
In the case the seed phrase is BIP39, it's possible that you generate the new wallet on a different derivation path and get different addresses.


3.
Opening and closing the wallet is enough for the last modified time being updated.

[o_e_l_e_o]

The only caveat for Electrum seed phrases to hosseinimr93's answer above would be if it any point you used a passphrase in addition to your seed phrase. This shows up on Electrum as the option to "extend your seed with custom words". If you did use a passphrase, then your seed phrase alone will not recover the correct wallet.

If your seed phrase is BIP39 you'll also need to check different derivation paths.

If you know the wallet contains a significant amount of coins, do you know any of the addresses in the original wallet (or can you find out)? This would give you definitive proof you have recovered the same wallet. I assume the original wallet is fully encrypted, and it's not just the private keys which are password protected? If it's the latter, you can open the original wallet and view the addresses, although you cannot spend the coins without the password.

[Findingnemo]

First of all, the password used on Electrum wallet is to encrypt the wallet file so in case if someone got the wallet file from your device they can't decrypt it without the password used.

But when you have the right seedphrase, you do not need the wallet file at all just importing it will restore everything as it used to be. FYI, bitcoins are stored in the blockchain and wallet is just an application to access the funds in it via your private keys.

[Pmalek]

All you need for successful coin-recovery is your seed phrase and an optional passphrase if you created one originally. Since it's an Electrum seed (a wallet generated by Electrum), there is no need to worry or play around with derivation paths. The software takes care of that itself, unless you were unlucky to be on the receiving end of some weird bug that messed that up for you.

The password that encrypt your wallet file is just a local protection measure. It prevents someone from accessing and stealing the coins on the computer where the software is installed. The password has no connection to the bitcoin protocol, meaning a 3rd-party doesn't need it to access the coins if they have the private keys or seed.

[markrockny]

1.
Your seed phrase is all you need to recover your wallet and as mentioned above by Zaguru12 above, you don't need the password when restoring your wallet from seed phrase.
Take note that all your addresses are derived from your seed phrase and you should see the entire balance and all transactions in computer 2 unless there's transaction associated with an address generated beyond the gap limit.

The default gap limit on electrum is 20 and that means that electrum generates more and more addresses and displays their transactions history until it reaches 20 consecutive unused addresses.


2.
You will get different address in the restored wallet if you use an incorrect derivation path.
In the case the seed phrase has been generated by electrum, there shouldn't be any issues with derivation path because Electrum uses a fixed derivation path and the script type is encoded in the seed phrase.
In the case the seed phrase is BIP39, it's possible that you generate the new wallet on a different derivation path and get different addresses.


3.
Opening and closing the wallet is enough for the last modified time being updated.

Thank you very much for responding to all my questions, this info is very useful. I'm still wondering what would happen if there is a valid transaction with an address beyond the default 20 unused. I assume the 20 or other number is determined by the original wallet, not by the one I restore. So if there was such a transaction, how would I know if there is one, how would I recover it into the newly restored wallet?
To ALL who responded, I do appreciate your info, all these details complemented the ones I got from @hosseinimr93 and made it more clear.
If anyone could point me to the info on:
- the derivation paths and their flavors
- how would I know if the wallet I'm restoring from seed also need a passphrase?
- how would I know if the seed is from an Electrum wallet or some other like Atomic, etc.
Again thanks everyone

[Zaguru12]

Thank you very much for responding to all my questions, this info is very useful. I'm still wondering what would happen if there is a valid transaction with an address beyond the default 20 unused. I assume the 20 or other number is determined by the original wallet, not by the one I restore. So if there was such a transaction, how would I know if there is one, how would I recover it into the newly restored wallet?
To ALL who responded, I do appreciate your info, all these details complemented the ones I got from @hosseinimr93 and made it more clear.
If anyone could point me to the info on:
- the derivation paths and their flavors
- how would I know if the wallet I'm restoring from seed also need a passphrase?
- how would I know if the seed is from an Electrum wallet or some other like Atomic, etc.
Again thanks everyone

The 20 addresses are actually unused address, all funded address will be visible if you import the seed phrase. The 20 unused address can also be increased by increasing the wallet gap limit.

You will know the wallet you are restoring need a passphrase if you import the seed phrase and it recover a different wallet or let me say addresses. You can just simply re import it again with the pass phrase and the right wallet will be imported.

You cannot differentiate an electrum seed phrase from a Bip39 seed phrase by merely looking at it most especially if they use same word list (electrum doesn’t use a fixed wordlist). You simply need to just import it first as Bip39 to check if it is a valid Bip39 checksum or invalid and if it’s invalid you try the electrum version number.

It is worth mentioning that electrum actually recovers both Bip39 and it’s custom electrum seed phrase

[o_e_l_e_o]

So if there was such a transaction, how would I know if there is one, how would I recover it into the newly restored wallet?

On the newly restored wallet in Electrum, go to the console and enter the following commands:

Code:

wallet.create_new_address(False) for i in range(100)
wallet.create_new_address(True) for i in range(100)

This will generate another 100 receiving and change addresses.

- the derivation paths and their flavors

This is only necessary if your seed phrase is BIP39. If it is, then when you recover it in Electrum, you simply click the box "Detect existing accounts" and it will (probably) find the right derivation path for you.

- how would I know if the wallet I'm restoring from seed also need a passphrase?

The only way to know if you used a passphrase is to remember using a passphrase. There will be no indication from the seed phrase or the wallet it recovers that you used an additional passphrase. The only hint will be if your wallet is empty and you expected to find some balance, then maybe (but not necessarily) you are looking for a different wallet with the same seed phrase but an additional passphrase.

- how would I know if the seed is from an Electrum wallet or some other like Atomic, etc.

Recover your seed phrase on Electrum. In the box that you enter your seed phrase, after you type it it will show up "Seed Type: legacy" or "Seed Type: segwit" underneath if it is an Electrum seed phrase.

[hosseinimr93]

I'm still wondering what would happen if there is a valid transaction with an address beyond the default 20 unused. I assume the 20 or other number is determined by the original wallet, not by the one I restore. So if there was such a transaction, how would I know if there is one, how would I recover it into the newly restored wallet?

Take note that when you recover the wallet, all the addresses are generated at the same order as the original wallet and people usually don't need to increase the gap limit.
Also note that the gap limit of 20 means that electrum stops generating new addresses once it reaches 20 consecutive unused addresses.
For example, if you have used the 20th address, electrum will generate at least 40 addresses and check their transactions history, even if you haven't used the first 19 addresses and you haven't increased the gap limit.

If you go to receive tab, click on "Create request" again and again until it generates an address beyond the gap limit for you, electrum even displays a message warning you about the address being beyond the default gap limit and also highlight them in red in "Addresses" tab.

Therefore, you should know if you have funded an address beyond the gap limit and if you have done so, you can easily increase the gap limit using the following command after restoring the wallet from seed phrase.

Code:

wallet.change_gap_limit(50)

This command will increase the gap limit to 50. You can change the 50 to any number you want.

You can also generate more addresses without increasing the gap limit using the commands posted above by o_e_l_e_o.

- the derivation paths and their flavors

You wouldn't have any issues with the derivation path if the seed phrase has been generated by electrum itself.
Even if the seed phrase is BIP39, most wallets use common derivation paths and you still don't need to save the derivation path and as mentioned by o_e_l_e_o above it can be easily detected.

If you have generated a wallet using a non-standard derivation path, you must know it when restoring the wallet from the seed phrase.

- how would I know if the wallet I'm restoring from seed also need a passphrase?

You generated the wallet and it's you that should know whether a passphrase was used or not.

- how would I know if the seed is from an Electrum wallet or some other like Atomic, etc.

Again, you are the one who must know whether the seed phrase has been generated by electrum itself or not.
And even if you don't remember that, (as mentioned above by o_e_l_e_o) electrum would detect the seed phrase type if it has been generated by itself, once you enter that.

[Pmalek]

<Snip>

Other users already answered the questions you asked. I will just add a bit more information.

A normal use of a popular wallet wouldn't result in the generation of an address beyond the gap limit. I am not aware of any bugs that would cause this, but I can't rule out the existence of such bugs. It's more likely that a user customized its wallet settings to generate such an address, and that's not something you need to do.

About the passphrases.
Anything can be a passphrase. Your forum username 'markrockny' could be a passphrase. 'Markrockny' is a different passphrase that would generate a completely new set of addresses. It's essential you write down the phrase correctly including any spaces, numbers, special characters, capital/small letters, etc. By changing one character, you will recover a different wallet, and the software isn't going to tell you that it's wrong because there is no wrong passphrase. All strings (up to a certain length) are valid passphrases. Also, there is no wallet that can inform you that your seed has an extra passphrase attached to it. You must remember if you used one.