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Author Topic: Scammer lead developer resigns from honeypot Wasabi Wallet  (Read 1354 times)
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kayirigi (OP)
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January 29, 2024, 08:14:11 PM
 #61


Just to keep fair criticism here, sybil attacks in coinjoins are easily detectable, in order for the attack to work efficiently in deanonymizing a certain input -- the coordinator needs to refuse connection confirmations from all other participants, so if your input has not been spent before and the coordinator rejects your connection it's safe to assume that it's preparing for a Sybil attack on an input it identified earlier in the current round.


If Wasabi going to sybil one input they put all other inputs in a different round. Very easy for them. And undetectable.

And no need to sybil every input. Every input is examined by BC analysis first. BC analysis say 'we don't care about this input, fully KYCed, user is tracked by other methods, whatever' then coinjoin as normal. BC analysis say 'gov want more info on this input' then they get sybilled.
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n0nce
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January 29, 2024, 09:38:25 PM
Last edit: January 29, 2024, 09:56:48 PM by n0nce
 #62

[...]
Obviously, if they have a targeted input (or a few of them) to which they want to link -- then that would make sense, and they could be doing that already and manage to hide it but a full-scale Sybil attack is just not feasible IMO.
Okay, but if they wanted to target individual UTXOs every now and then, that might be feasible, right?

With that said, I am not claiming Wasabi don't/won't do any of that, I am just stating that it would be very difficult to hide a sybil attack, besides, Wasabi doesn't need any more criticism, you make chain analysis scums richer every time you use it.
From what I've heard so far, it seems to me that sybil-attacking from the coordinator side is still feasible, as long as it's not done on a massive scale.

That's a good last point, though; even if they weren't doing anything fishy, every Wasabi CoinJoin puts some extra money in blockchain analysis pockets. They might use that to fund more blockchain analysis research and development for new ways to deanonymize us.

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mikeywith
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January 29, 2024, 09:45:58 PM
Merited by LoyceV (4), BlackHatCoiner (4)
 #63

And what's a "valid" input? Is there such a terminology in their repository?

Yes, anything that passes the input registration phase is valid.

Code:
private async Task MoveToConnectionConfirmationAsync()
{
using (BenchmarkLogger.Measure(LogLevel.Info, nameof(RemoveAlicesIfAnInputRefusedByMempoolNoLockAsync)))
{
await RemoveAlicesIfAnInputRefusedByMempoolNoLockAsync().ConfigureAwait(false);
}
using (BenchmarkLogger.Measure(LogLevel.Info, nameof(RemoveAliceIfCoinsAreNaughtyAsync)))
{
await RemoveAliceIfCoinsAreNaughtyAsync().ConfigureAwait(false);

It's probably worth a bit of logic in how the coordinator operates, ZKsnacks operates chaumian coinjoin structure, it runs through five main phases which are

Input Registration
Connection Confirmation
Output registration
Signing
Broadcasting

This could be further understood in the CoordinatorRound class

Input Registration: in this phase, the client would sent an input and a blinded output, this is where the "banning" is done.

You can see the old code was

Code:
var round = new CoordinatorRound(RpcClient, UtxoReferee, RoundConfig, confirmationTarget, RoundConfig.ConfirmationTarget, RoundConfig.ConfirmationTargetReductionRate, TimeSpan.FromSeconds(RoundConfig.InputRegistrationTimeout));

changed to

Code:
var round = new CoordinatorRound(RpcClient, UtxoReferee, RoundConfig, confirmationTarget, RoundConfig.ConfirmationTarget, RoundConfig.ConfirmationTargetReductionRate, TimeSpan.FromSeconds(RoundConfig.InputRegistrationTimeout), CoinVerifier);

They added a new dependency called "CoinVerifier" which is called by the "naughty" method you mentioned above, basically the Coinverfier class interacts with ApiResponseItem that gets the ban/approve from an HTTP response.

Now if you check the private asynchronous method called  Task MoveToConnectionConfirmationAsync()


Code:
private async Task MoveToConnectionConfirmationAsync()
{
using (BenchmarkLogger.Measure(LogLevel.Info, nameof(RemoveAlicesIfAnInputRefusedByMempoolNoLockAsync)))
{
await RemoveAlicesIfAnInputRefusedByMempoolNoLockAsync().ConfigureAwait(false);
}
using (BenchmarkLogger.Measure(LogLevel.Info, nameof(RemoveAliceIfCoinsAreNaughtyAsync)))
{
await RemoveAliceIfCoinsAreNaughtyAsync().ConfigureAwait(false);
}
Phase = RoundPhase.ConnectionConfirmation;
}

so before moving to the second phase of Connection Confirmation, all the filtering is done, your coins become invalid either due to them being "naughty"  or "Invalid",  let's just assume the input registration is invalidated for no valid reason.

Up to this point, you have only provided input and a blinded output (no Sybil attack is possible) since the coordinator did not receive an output from you, and you are not yet enrolled in a coinjoin, so if they want to Sybil attack you, they would need to sign the blinded output and send it back to you

If you pass this phase, the coordinator will now need to sign the blinded output and send it back to you with a new identity/UniqueId(still no Sybil attack or its detection is possible yet)

So let's just assume it's only me and you trying to coinjoin this round, you got your inputs registered and I got mine, we both got our blinded outputs signed and received our unique-Ids, we would now enter the Connection Confirmation phase, and whereby we both send our uniqeIds to the coordinator and we both know they are valid and the coordinator MUST accept them.

If the coordinator were to reject my connection confirmation it would be safe to assume that they are launching a Sybil attack against you (of course I don't know whom they are launching the attack against but having refused my connection while I have a valid unique id the proves that I have registered x input means they are doing the attack), there is no VALID reason for them to refuse my conn-conf, it should be accepted and after the timeout we need to move OutputRegistration phase, you can check the code to find that       Phase = RoundPhase.OutputRegistration; doesn't have any valid conditions of which they can reject you for "no reason".

This applies to the rest of the phases, if the coordinator accepted your input registration -- there is no valid for reason them to stop you from going forward, I am not saying they "can't" of course they can reject your connection confirmation or even claim that your output registration was invalid, they can even claim that you did not register your input to start with, but given that the code is open-source it MUST act as it says it does, otherwise, people/observers would see that they are being refused for no reason which means the code which is run by the coordinator isn't exactly what they say it is and/or, they are trying out some attacks.


Quote
You register 10 (non-private) inputs, and 1 of them gets rejected, what is your conclusion? To me, absolutely none. Coinfirm might have deemed this one input as inappropriate, or it might be trying to get rid of some coinjoin inputs, so they can use theirs instead and de-anonymize the remaining registered inputs. Who knows. For instance, a 150-input long coinjoin can have its 75 inputs rejected, and replaced with 75 Coinfirm inputs. That leaves the firm with 50% less output set to account for.

Note that I am talking about the possibility of the coordinator using the power that other attackers don't have to perform sybil attack, what you described in your previous post could be achieved by anyone, I know the maximum number of inputs in each round is x, I can register x inputs and perform the same attack, in other words, this could probably be applied to all conjoins coordinators not just ZKsnacks, so not sure why is this an exclusive criticism for Wasabi?


If Wasabi going to sybil one input they put all other inputs in a different round. Very easy for them. And undetectable.

Round ID, Input count, current phase, time to next phase are all publically available, your claim would be valid if you register two inputs to the same round and they end up in different rounds, otherwise, how do you suggest doing that without anyone noticing? obviously, most users don't check all this info and just use the next GUI and set their auto-conjoin, but don't you think there are enough people (Wasabi rivals for example) logging every round detail to showcase how Wasabi is doing all of these claims? besides, whatever you suggested could be applied to all other Coinjoins that use a centralized coordinator, which is why I said "let's keep criticism" fair.

My main issue with Wasabi is the fact that their default coordinator and funding firm ZKsnacks censors transactions for no valid reasons.
Quote
one of the owners of zkSNACKs Ltd., Bálint Harmat said the decision to blacklist was done proactively. While it is correct that there’s no legislation that specifically says coinjoin coordinators must blacklist their customers’ UTXOs, the challenges encountered operating the business in even the most liberal jurisdictions are numerous and multiplying.

Source: https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/zksnacks-blacklisting-update/

It's similar to banning mixers on this forum, except that banning mixers doesn't fuck with Bitcoin fungibility.


Okay, but if they wanted to target individual UTXOs every now and then, that might be feasible, right?

It's always doable, I am just not sure about how feasible if enough people are observing these rounds and actually are spending time and money to detect such attacks (mainly their competitors), if you see all the research Samourai Wallet team does on Wasabi, you would probably guess that there are enough people watching them, of course tho, just because nobody caught them -- doesn't mean they have never done it.


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BlackHatCoiner
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January 29, 2024, 10:30:10 PM
 #64

Up to this point, you have only provided input and a blinded output (no Sybil attack is possible)
The sybil attack is an on-going process. If the coordinator forbids you from joining the round, with the excuse that you're "naughty", it gains the advantage to replace your potentially untraceable coins with traceable, to de-anonymize certain inputs; which are the victims of the attack. Then, it can repeat, with other victims.

So let's just assume it's only me and you trying to coinjoin this round
That's quite of a big assumption to make. In reality, you don't know anything about the people you coinjoin your coins. That's the reason we're discussing about sybil attack in the first place. If I knew by whom the round is consisted of, I wouldn't have to worry.

Note that I am talking about the possibility of the coordinator using the power that other attackers don't have to perform sybil attack, what you described in your previous post could be achieved by anyone, I know the maximum number of inputs in each round is x, I can register x inputs and perform the same attack, in other words, this could probably be applied to all conjoins coordinators not just ZKsnacks, so not sure why is this an exclusive criticism for Wasabi?
A sybil attack is obviously not an exclusive perk of Wasabi; it can potentially be executed on every peer-to-peer network. However, comparably to e.g., Joinmarket that's implemented resisting measures such as fidelity bonds, there is clearly an orders of magnitude difference. Not only does Wasabi not resist same like, but it requires approval from an entity that is incentivized to execute such attack.

You're also making the wild assumption that the remaining clients will be concerned about experiencing a sybil attack. Anyone choosing to use Wasabi after the extensive list of red flags would be the least likely to worry about being sybil attacked.

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mikeywith
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January 29, 2024, 11:41:28 PM
 #65

That's quite of a big assumption to make.

It would have been an assumption if I said "only me and you trying to coinjoin this round", which I did not, it was merely an example to explain how user X could detect that user Y is being targeted in Sybil attack.

Quote
A sybil attack is obviously not an exclusive perk of Wasabi;

Great then, it shouldn't be used against Wasabi, unless there exists a valid proof that they are doing it themselves, which nobody has come up with yet as far as I am concerned.


Quote
You're also making the wild assumption that the remaining clients will be concerned about experiencing a sybil attack. Anyone choosing to use Wasabi after the extensive list of red flags would be the least likely to worry about being sybil attacked.

If the "remaining clients" are not concerned about their privacy then why use a coinjoin in the first place? it seems like you are making an even wilder assumption thinking that everyone using Wasabi is a newbie jerk who doesn't care if their not-so-private coins become 100% KYCed.

Also, all the research and money spent by competitors isn't enough? Have you seen how hard the Samouri team is trying to find the smallest flaw in Wasabi? it would cost them less to monitor Wasabi than it would cost Wasabi to launch continuous Sybil attacks.

I do understand the anger and hate against Wasabi, I personally hated the fact that they took this path, but the chainanalysis/censorship isn't a concern to many people, in fact, their volume over the last year is higher than it was before the censorship, could it be fake? of course, but are there a dozen people out there who don't care about Bitcoin fungibility? indeed, is everyone using Wasabi stupid? I'd say no, should anyone use Wasabi? NO, are there better options? Yes.


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PrivacyG
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January 30, 2024, 08:49:25 PM
Merited by LoyceV (4), mikeywith (2)
 #66

I do understand the anger and hate against Wasabi, I personally hated the fact that they took this path, but the chainanalysis/censorship isn't a concern to many people, in fact, their volume over the last year is higher than it was before the censorship, could it be fake? of course, but are there a dozen people out there who don't care about Bitcoin fungibility? indeed, is everyone using Wasabi stupid? I'd say no, should anyone use Wasabi? NO, are there better options? Yes.
And this is very mind blowing to me.

How do you explain this?  More than half of us who were using Wasabi before hate what they did and are not using their Wallet any more.  But the Volume is higher than before we stopped using it?

Makes me think about a few things, which are very broad assumptions but it is still a concern to me.  I am worried about things like Could the Blockchain Analysis partner of theirs be including a lot of their own Inputs so they could artificially rise the Volume to attract more people while also rising the chance of linking the rest of the users to their Coin Joined Bitcoin?

Back when they decided to do this Chainalysis thing the first thought I had was Politics.  I thought big names would come with big time money to drop into Wasabi and launder it all in a legal way.

In consequence I am still worried about a few things such as the above.  It makes no sense to see almost every body hating on Wasabi while their business prospers.  You would expect the opposite to happen to their business.

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BlackHatCoiner
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January 30, 2024, 09:22:20 PM
Merited by LoyceV (4), mikeywith (2)
 #67

it seems like you are making an even wilder assumption thinking that everyone using Wasabi is a newbie jerk who doesn't care if their not-so-private coins become 100% KYCed.
Doesn't seem that wild to me. If you still believe Wasabi is a good option after the numerous lies, the incidents where their software was caught to be flawed, the blacklisting update and their cooperation with mass surveillance firm, then you're naive to think it's superior solution. If you are tricked into believing that funding blockchain analysis for the sake of your coinjoins is a clever choice, then you surely can be tricked into believing some sort of other nonsense for the sybil attack as well.

I personally hated the fact that they took this path, but the chainanalysis/censorship isn't a concern to many people
If chain analysis in a privacy-protecting software doesn't ring a bell to you, then I'm pretty confident that a silent sybil attack will neither.

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January 31, 2024, 12:08:14 AM
 #68


Your theory is valid. I have also questioned the volume after the censorship action, but I believe privacy is subjective. It's like your window curtains; they keep your neighbor away, but then someone could have access to your CCTVs or phone camera and watch while you sleep, I believe many people coinjoin their coins just to "hide" from other people, not to hide from chain analysis/governments. Thus, using a government-friendly privacy (or lack thereof) service like Wasabi coinjoin might be an even better option.

Think about it this way: someone who wants to coinjoin to maintain a good level of privacy against friends, co-workers, customers paying them in BTC, or any other reason where the privacy you know isn't the center of it. To that someone, using Wasabi is probably a better option. They could think that since this service goes through a government filter, what comes out of it is going to be "clean" coins, making them safe for future cash-out.

On the other hand, if they use a non-government-friendly service, they could be "accidentally" or "intentionally" mistakenly identified as a scammer/terrorist or whatever. This is always a possibility as long as criminals use coinjoin, and many people believe in tainted BTC. Many people want to steer clear from anything gray—let alone black—so they may choose to use a government-approved service.

When I define privacy to myself, I take it as a whole package. It's myself against the whole world. I treat everyone else looking from the outside as an intruder. I believe you and many other privacy-oriented people define privacy the same way, but we can't assume that everyone thinks of their privacy the way we do. Many people are willing to KYC themselves to some random exchanges just to get an airdrop of some worthless coins. And the KYC process isn't just "write your full name" and off you go; they now take selfies, write some information on a piece of paper. Many of them won't mind sending their naked pictures to those CEXs but still might want to hide their coins from their wives, employers, or God knows whom.

Personally, I believe that eventually, the entire crypto space will be heavily KYCed. I don't have much hope in the crypto community to fight for their privacy. The majority of people invest in crypto to make a profit, and most of them don't appreciate all the beautiful things BTC has to offer them except to make them rich. So, I won't be surprised if all that volume comes from real users who believe it's completely normal for the government to spy on them. Mind you, these aren't all just regular users; even people like Peter Todd advocate for Wasabi, calling the Samourai team scammers and being fine with chain analysis spying on them, so go figure.

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LoyceV
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January 31, 2024, 09:16:06 AM
Merited by mikeywith (4)
 #69

Think about it this way: someone who wants to coinjoin to maintain a good level of privacy against friends, co-workers, customers paying them in BTC, or any other reason where the privacy you know isn't the center of it. To that someone, using Wasabi is probably a better option. They could think that since this service goes through a government filter, what comes out of it is going to be "clean" coins, making them safe for future cash-out.
If you want to hide your transactions from friends and you're willing to go through a centralized company anyway, it's cheaper to use an regular exchange.

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mikeywith
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January 31, 2024, 09:33:14 AM
 #70

If you want to hide your transactions from friends and you're willing to go through a centralized company anyway, it's cheaper to use an regular exchange.

You can but there is a huge difference, centralized exchanges are custodial and KYCed whereby coinjoins are not, besides most coinjoin services are somewhat centralized anyway given that they use a centralized coordinator, which is why joinmarket is a superior option since they use orderbook over internet relay chat without a centralized coordinator.

Still, however, the worst coinjoin is probably better than the best centralized exchange when privacy is at stake.

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BlackHatCoiner
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January 31, 2024, 10:16:47 AM
 #71

Still, however, the worst coinjoin is probably better than the best centralized exchange when privacy is at stake.
Equally bad, in my opinion. Privacy enhancing services are reputation-based. If you have a bad reputation, I won't trust you. Judging by the (not so recent anymore) events in Wasabi, I would put it in the same rack with centralized exchanges. Honestly, even if the former is a mixing service, I cannot trust it my privacy in the slightest; if used, I'd consider it invaded, just as with centralized exchanges.

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kayirigi (OP)
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January 31, 2024, 08:05:37 PM
 #72

besides, whatever you suggested could be applied to all other Coinjoins that use a centralized coordinator, which is why I said "let's keep criticism" fair.


If Wasabi sybil you your coordinator fee pays for their transaction fees and so sybil is free for them.
If Samourai sybil you you pay nothing after 1 round and they pay transaction fee for every round so sybil is very expensive for them.

Not the same at all. And Wasabi devs ADMITTED to self sybilling!
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