Is GRIN still a thing?

[Cekikafa]

 
 GRIN MimbleWimble March developments and News #47

• GUI wallet import functionality.  
• MimbleWimble-python slatepacks.
• Ledger Hardware wallet bounty.
• Grinwish List.

[1714851380]

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[o48o]

Crypto land is always in need of privacy coins. Each has their unique approach for obfuscating transactions. Monero may be the most popular privacy coin, but that doesn't mean it's perfect. Grin is different from Monero and has its own set of advantages/disadvantages. It's very unfortunate to see it being abandoned by the original developer. It had potential to become a great XMR alternative with its "Mimblewimble" privacy technique. Not sure if there will be a community takeover for Grin. But at least, it does the job it's supposed to.

Maybe people will pay attention to it after governments increase their surveillance methods? With CBDCs on the brink of launch, privacy coins could become an option for those used to anonymous transactions with paper money. The future can't be predicted, so lets hope for the best.

Maybe, in the meanwhile new AML law in EU is going to ban all anonymous crypto payments. Only privacy preserving coin that i know that will be safe is Dusk, as their tech is going to be complying with eu AML laws, and their citadel tech can be used to identify the wallets, meaning that auditing is transactions is possible. But everything stays confidential to outsiders because kyc is build into zk tech.

Privacy coins being illegal means that there won't be any insitutional investors left and i don't see how privacy coins could have much liquidity value when it's gets harder and harder to convert to fiat money. So maybe it will stay hidden as money between people who won't mind possible criminal record. Who knows.

[jwinterm]

Crypto land is always in need of privacy coins. Each has their unique approach for obfuscating transactions. Monero may be the most popular privacy coin, but that doesn't mean it's perfect. Grin is different from Monero and has its own set of advantages/disadvantages. It's very unfortunate to see it being abandoned by the original developer. It had potential to become a great XMR alternative with its "Mimblewimble" privacy technique. Not sure if there will be a community takeover for Grin. But at least, it does the job it's supposed to.

Maybe people will pay attention to it after governments increase their surveillance methods? With CBDCs on the brink of launch, privacy coins could become an option for those used to anonymous transactions with paper money. The future can't be predicted, so lets hope for the best.

Maybe, in the meanwhile new AML law in EU is going to ban all anonymous crypto payments. Only privacy preserving coin that i know that will be safe is Dusk, as their tech is going to be complying with eu AML laws, and their citadel tech can be used to identify the wallets, meaning that auditing is transactions is possible. But everything stays confidential to outsiders because kyc is build into zk tech.

Privacy coins being illegal means that there won't be any insitutional investors left and i don't see how privacy coins could have much liquidity value when it's gets harder and harder to convert to fiat money. So maybe it will stay hidden as money between people who won't mind possible criminal record. Who knows.

Oh no the govt is going to ban Monero and Grin   I guess we better pack it up boys, o48o says we need to respect the EUSSR and their draconian bullshit, let's all pile into the ICO scam compliance bro "privacy" shitcoin that he's shilling.

[tsaroz]

It's been quite a long time since the first cryptocurrency with the "Mimblewimble" privacy technique was released. My first days of using GRIN were quite troublesome due to its added complexity. But it's a great coin to use for privacy-oriented transactions once you get the hang of it. Somehow, GRIN became a forgotten cryptocurrency as all of the attention shifted back to Monero. Was this a result of poor marketing/promotion efforts? Or a lack of user experience?

I'm wondering if this coin still has a future, especially when privacy on crypto has been frowned upon by mainstream governments. Do you think it can be good long-term investment like Monero? Or is it a complete bust? Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.

Grin has not died. The price has been stabilized at a lower side and it has a sizeable community of volunteers and privacy focused users.
It's still one of the popular mineable coin. Miners are another community that are keeping the coin alive. A coin is dead when there's no transaction volume. Grin is still listed and traded on some centralized exchange like Gate.io. The problem with privacy focused coins are being unlisted from every popular exchange. There surely would be some unknown centralized exchange listing them but coinmarketcap won't track it and people would forget it.

[GreatArkansas]

At first, I was very excited to this project but after that, I stopped because it seems the "privacy coin narrative" seems becoming non sense in the world of cryptocurrency because the essence of cryptocurrency being anonymous or having privacy is already there, so these kinds of project seems become more redundant.

[jwinterm]

At first, I was very excited to this project but after that, I stopped because it seems the "privacy coin narrative" seems becoming non sense in the world of cryptocurrency because the essence of cryptocurrency being anonymous or having privacy is already there, so these kinds of project seems become more redundant.

If you think privacy is "already there" with Bitcoin, Ethereum, or almost every other coin...then you deserve to go to jail for buying drugs on the dnm or whatever 😸

[Abiky]

Maybe, in the meanwhile new AML law in EU is going to ban all anonymous crypto payments. Only privacy preserving coin that i know that will be safe is Dusk, as their tech is going to be complying with eu AML laws, and their citadel tech can be used to identify the wallets, meaning that auditing is transactions is possible. But everything stays confidential to outsiders because kyc is build into zk tech.

Privacy coins being illegal means that there won't be any insitutional investors left and i don't see how privacy coins could have much liquidity value when it's gets harder and harder to convert to fiat money. So maybe it will stay hidden as money between people who won't mind possible criminal record. Who knows.

If a privacy coin complies with KYC/AML, then it's NOT a true privacy coin at all. Crypto projects should remain neutral to help fulfill Satoshi's original vision. I guess Monero and GRIN are (and will always be) the best privacy coins in the world. Who cares if market prices go down in the long run? Bitcoin was never meant to please the regulators. It was created as an antithesis to the existing Fiat system backed by corrupt banks and governments. A coin that's truly-decentralized and private is what we need to help achieve freedom and self-sovereignity.

I sure hope GRIN Gets the attention it deserves in the development community, so it can become a "force to reckon with". With constant network improvements, GRIN will be able to last a lifetime. That's assuming it doesn't move away from decentralization over time. The future can't be predicted, so lets hope for the best.

[MemurKafasi]

Did we surprise ?
Another developer left Grin project.

Maybe he is trolling too ?

[o48o]

Oh no the govt is going to ban Monero and Grin   I guess we better pack it up boys, o48o says we need to respect the EUSSR and their draconian bullshit, let's all pile into the ICO scam compliance bro "privacy" shitcoin that he's shilling.

Dusk had a private sale, not an ICO, but go ahead, you have right to ignore and dismiss it as a scam even if their lead cryptographer is Dmitry Khovratovich. I am assuming you know the name if you are into privacy coin tech. Or cryptocurrencies in general.

And maybe you should revisit and read more about those new laws to understand what i meant. Because it sounds like you are dismissing this as fud. As it's really not up to your opinion if insitutional investors put money into them or any centralized exchanges deals with them. And you are totally free to go back to p2p ages, but maybe expect that marketcap going back with it. No one can prevent or would care about that pocket money trading. But trying to cash large amounts of it to fiat money, it will become increasinly problematic in time. And FATF travel rule isn't only EU thing you know.

If a privacy coin complies with KYC/AML, then it's NOT a true privacy coin at all. Crypto projects should remain neutral to help fulfill Satoshi's original vision. I guess Monero and GRIN are (and will always be) the best privacy coins in the world. Who cares if market prices go down in the long run? Bitcoin was never meant to please the regulators. It was created as an antithesis to the existing Fiat system backed by corrupt banks and governments. A coin that's truly-decentralized and private is what we need to help achieve freedom and self-sovereignity.

I sure hope GRIN Gets the attention it deserves in the development community, so it can become a "force to reckon with". With constant network improvements, GRIN will be able to last a lifetime. That's assuming it doesn't move away from decentralization over time. The future can't be predicted, so lets hope for the best.

Well there's always a choice. If we want btc or coins with anonymous transactions to go up in value, we need high liquidity and that happens by complying with regulations. If we want total freedom, or even anonymity we don't expect financial insitutions or centralized exchanges to deal with them.

And i totally get, how what i am saying is against whole early cryptopunk money ethos, but we have came a long way from the start, and laws are catching up with the people who are stealing cryptos. So cashing large amounts out in fiat money will become harder and will need good old money laundering in fiat money side.

I am assuming that you already know that if something doesn't have a blanket anonymity it doesn't mean it couldn't have privacy via ZK. And you probably know that is for everyone's best interest if our financial sector DLT complies with strict privacy laws in EU.

[d5000]

Maybe, in the meanwhile new AML law in EU is going to ban all anonymous crypto payments.

While the EU directive is definitely hostile against privacy coins, this is not entirely correct. What's going (probably, if the directive passes the EU parliament's vote) to be banned is crypto assets service providers offering privacy coins accounts (at least this is an interpretation which can be made for the text I quote below), not the usage of privacy coins.

Credit institutions, financial institutions and crypto-asset service providers shall be prohibited from keeping [..] anonymous crypto-asset accounts as well as any account otherwise allowing for the anonymisation of the customer account holder or the anonymisation or increased obfuscation of transactions, including through anonymity-enhancing coins.

Source (Art. 58, 1)

Your interpretation that this could decrease the interest of institutional investors, however, should be correct, as these operate on CEXes and ETFs or other similar products on regulated exchanges would then be impossible. But did institutional investors invest at any time in privacy coins? Only case I could identify is some "altcoin basket" product which could include Monero. I don't consider them important in this market segment (and much less for a small coin like Grin).

[jwinterm]

Shilling centralized shit token

Brosef, the only thing "institutional investors" are buying is Bitcoin, maybe some eth now. Certainly not the #272 trash token with insiders owning the vast majority of supply making promises about tech that no one gives a duck about. Good luck coming into unrelated threads to shill your trash in the future.

[wguk]

I think people were initially drawn to Grin's similarities to Bitcoin in that it was a new technology with an anonymous founder. However a few things have contributed to it's current perception of abandonment. First was the launch date. Right in the middle of a bear market where crypto sentiment was low. I think this could have affected investors risk factor and subsequently grin's funding in its tender early days.

Next was the way the monetary policy played out. I guess it was no surprise to anyone that the price would flatten out but 5 years is a long time in crypto, so many lost patience.

Then there was the transaction graph scandal. I still hear people say that mimblewimble has a fundamental flaw and this narrative is still holding.

There is still a loyal following and the mining economy is strong so I think that grin is far from dead. However I believe that some significant changes are needed for it's situation to change, whether that be internally (new developments) or even externally (demand for privacy coins).

[Abiky]

Well there's always a choice. If we want btc or coins with anonymous transactions to go up in value, we need high liquidity and that happens by complying with regulations. If we want total freedom, or even anonymity we don't expect financial insitutions or centralized exchanges to deal with them.

And i totally get, how what i am saying is against whole early cryptopunk money ethos, but we have came a long way from the start, and laws are catching up with the people who are stealing cryptos. So cashing large amounts out in fiat money will become harder and will need good old money laundering in fiat money side.

I am assuming that you already know that if something doesn't have a blanket anonymity it doesn't mean it couldn't have privacy via ZK. And you probably know that is for everyone's best interest if our financial sector DLT complies with strict privacy laws in EU.

We have to decide whenever we want to please the regulators (at the cost of low privacy and limited freedom) or people's best interests. Bitcoin was created with a "cypherpunk vision" as an antithesis to Fiat (which is backed by corrupt banks and governments). The approval of spot ETFs and the institutionalization of crypto is definitely not a good sign. Even if that means higher market prices over the long term.

Was it always about making money? Or was it about making our world a better place? People seem to be missing the bigger picture. Many want to get rick quick, even if that means giving up their privacy and freedom. I see GRIN as a unique project not tied to the hands of "Wall Street", evil banks, governments, or corporations. Same goes with Monero. These coins may be hated by many, but they're our only escape route to government censorship and surveillance.

I'm fine with GRIN going down in market price, as long as the core Blockchain network remains actively developed and maintained by the community. Hopefully, decentralization will prevail in the long run.

[Keremgor]

Well there's always a choice. If we want btc or coins with anonymous transactions to go up in value, we need high liquidity and that happens by complying with regulations. If we want total freedom, or even anonymity we don't expect financial insitutions or centralized exchanges to deal with them.

And i totally get, how what i am saying is against whole early cryptopunk money ethos, but we have came a long way from the start, and laws are catching up with the people who are stealing cryptos. So cashing large amounts out in fiat money will become harder and will need good old money laundering in fiat money side.

I am assuming that you already know that if something doesn't have a blanket anonymity it doesn't mean it couldn't have privacy via ZK. And you probably know that is for everyone's best interest if our financial sector DLT complies with strict privacy laws in EU.

We have to decide whenever we want to please the regulators (at the cost of low privacy and limited freedom) or people's best interests. Bitcoin was created with a "cypherpunk vision" as an antithesis to Fiat (which is backed by corrupt banks and governments). The approval of spot ETFs and the institutionalization of crypto is definitely not a good sign. Even if that means higher market prices over the long term.

Was it always about making money? Or was it about making our world a better place? People seem to be missing the bigger picture. Many want to get rick quick, even if that means giving up their privacy and freedom. I see GRIN as a unique project not tied to the hands of "Wall Street", evil banks, governments, or corporations. Same goes with Monero. These coins may be hated by many, but they're our only escape route to government censorship and surveillance.

I'm fine with GRIN going down in market price, as long as the core Blockchain network remains actively developed and maintained by the community. Hopefully, decentralization will prevail in the long run.

i agree with totally. Except quick get rich scheme. If you look at hashrate and downward spiral price, some of them get quite RICH with insider info.

[vs2014]

Understanding the complexity of the crypto market is a very difficult task as market conditions can change at any time. As you deal with the current market situation because a few months back only red market could be seen. I think many people were able to make good profits during this period especially those who were holding bitcoin. Honestly the name sounds so weird to me that I've lost track of the best buys of many top altcoins. To get profit from crypto you have to invest so if you don't want to invest then you won't get profit.

[d5000]

I've been looking again a bit into the stats and currently they're quite bleak at the first glance. Google Trends searches are very low, even if there was a little bit more interest than in 2022/23 lately.



I however am not sure which could be the best search term here, but I think grin alone isn't enough.

Price has also unfortunately returned to the levels before the 2024 pump, hitting new lows when compared to Bitcoin. Here's a bit larger picture since the 2022 lows, including the important Grin/BTC chart:



For someone new to Grin like me it can look like "should I really buy that?", but it also could be an opportunity, knowing that Grin is truly a quite unique coin. I can imagine that a part of the recent price decrease is to a generally weak altcoin market, but also the decision of the Ironbelly developer to end development  (that seems to have been a mobile Grin app and was probably was MemurKafasi mentioned above) could have contributed. There seems to be some conflict in the community when reading the latest pages, and I don't really understand why, perhaps someone can enlighten me Reminds me a bit of Burstcoin (now Signum) also an interesting project but which lost traction due to continued conflict between the devs, followed by a rebranding which while it made sense could not revert the tendency until now.

[jwinterm]

I think the people complaining here are not devs, just salty bagholders and trolls. I think if you look at forum.grim.mw there's less trolling

[tromp]

if you look at forum.grim.mw there's less trolling

As you would expect on a moderated Grin forum.

I just created a moderated Grin topic at [1] where one can also enjoy troll free Grin discussion...

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5493511.0

[Abiky]

I've been looking again a bit into the stats and currently they're quite bleak at the first glance. Google Trends searches are very low, even if there was a little bit more interest than in 2022/23 lately.


I however am not sure which could be the best search term here, but I think grin alone isn't enough.

Price has also unfortunately returned to the levels before the 2024 pump, hitting new lows when compared to Bitcoin. Here's a bit larger picture since the 2022 lows, including the important Grin/BTC chart:


For someone new to Grin like me it can look like "should I really buy that?", but it also could be an opportunity, knowing that Grin is truly a quite unique coin. I can imagine that a part of the recent price decrease is to a generally weak altcoin market, but also the decision of the Ironbelly developer to end development  (that seems to have been a mobile Grin app and was probably was MemurKafasi mentioned above) could have contributed. There seems to be some conflict in the community when reading the latest pages, and I don't really understand why, perhaps someone can enlighten me Reminds me a bit of Burstcoin (now Signum) also an interesting project but which lost traction due to continued conflict between the devs, followed by a rebranding which while it made sense could not revert the tendency until now.

Well, privacy coins aren't as popular as NFTs or even "meme" coins like Dogecoin and Shiba Inu. After all, most people have "nothing to hide". With US government cracking down on mixers, we should expect demand for privacy coins to decline over time. I wouldn't be surprised if governments (particularly the US) go as far as "banning" privacy coins from mainstream use.

GRIN is a good coin like Monero with a unique approach towards privacy and anonymity. If only it had the backing of mainstream investors, it would've gone to the moon by now. Fortunately, the core Blockchain network still works. As long as the community keeps it alive, nothing else matters.

[jwinterm]

I think (or hope) that the recent actions, and oversteps, by the US govt will start to remind people why we are here in the first place, and we will see renewed interest in so called "privacy coins".

It was over three decades ago this was published:
https://www.activism.net/cypherpunk/manifesto.html

We the Cypherpunks are dedicated to building anonymous systems. We are defending our privacy with cryptography, with anonymous mail forwarding systems, with digital signatures, and with electronic money.

Cypherpunks write code. We know that someone has to write software to defend privacy, and since we can't get privacy unless we all do, we're going to write it. We publish our code so that our fellow Cypherpunks may practice and play with it. Our code is free for all to use, worldwide. We don't much care if you don't approve of the software we write. We know that software can't be destroyed and that a widely dispersed system can't be shut down.

Fifteen years after that and fifteen years before today, Satoshi launched the first widely dispersed electronic money system that can't be shut down. Ten years ago Monero launched and added significantly more anonymity to the mix. And five years ago Grin launched with an efficient and fairly private blockchain, but more importantly imo a significantly more fair distribution or emission curve.

How do you make sure everyone in the world has a chance to get some coin? The only two viable options on the market today seem to be grin and worldcoin