Is this the kind of world you want to live in? [read]

[NotATether]

Every day, we are using Bitcoin to buy goods and services, and also to receive money in return for goods and services from others.

We can send money anywhere around the world, without having to pay expensive fees* which have been set by a money transmitter.

But what if it wasn't like this?

What if we were no longer allowed to store bitcoin ourselves, and be forced to leave them on an approved exchange or bank?

What if we needed to submit identify verification every time we wanted to create an address?

What if lobbyists successfully split Bitcoin into two partitions - the restricted walled garden, and the rest of the world?

What if people in charge could set an arbitrarily high fee for anyone who wanted to make a transaction?

It's not so much about killing bitcoin, than it is controlling it. We are sleepwalking our way into a dystopia where Bitcoin is no longer "A Peer-To-Peer Digital Currency". Banks want their share of the pie, and with Bitcoin inevitably becoming a large force to reckon with, they will seek any way to get a share of it. So they will pay lobbyists to advocate rules that make it difficult for the normal person to use Bitcoin, while making even stricter tax reporting requirements when selling bitcoin. Sure, one may say it's the IRS collecting taxes, but then again, the government bails the banks out, time and time again. So what we have is "bitcoiners funding banks" indirectly.

Never allow this to happen, and you can do it by supporting privacy, wherever it exists.

Crypto privacy is the last weapon you have against financial corruption.

*If not mainnet, then Lightning Network.

[1714522997]

1714522997

[1714522997]

1714522997

[1714522997]

1714522997

[Zlantann]

Never allow this to happen, and you can do it by supporting privacy, wherever it exists.

Crypto privacy is the last weapon you have against financial corruption.

*If not mainnet, then Lightning Network.

It is becoming clear every day that the government through institutional investors wants to control the Bitcoin space. These investors are making Bitcoin more popular and accepted but it is gradually moving the sector towards centralisation. Some mining pools are even asking for KYC which is a clear indication that they want to kill privacy. I am afraid that most of us here don't have the financial or political power to stop these moves but at least we could do our little bit by sticking with decentralised platforms. We have to enjoy privacy as long as it lasts by avoiding all platforms that ask for KYC.   

[mk4]

I mean, it's been discussed time and time again that attempts to attain such a level of control are to be expected, right? It's the reason why the main recommendation is no-kyc exchange, non-custodial wallets, and maybe mix/coinjoin your coins.

And if a certain government goes too hard on bitcoin, some of them will simply go silent for a while, or move to greener pastures.

[electronicash]

there have been conspiracy theories about it. and although it seems quite possible such as BlackRock buying the shares of the BTC mining farms, it looks like there is no reaction to it since we are trusting so much of the network that they will not be able to control it since there are other countries who are also mining BTC.

but it must be kept in mind that all governments whether communist governments or not, they want to control the people which means they all can communicate like how they do these days. China and US and Russia communicate with each other and look at the bank records and blockchain data to see who's naughty or nice.

[Churchillvv]

"In summary, what if Bitcoin goes against the intention of Satoshi?"

I suppose this is the nightmare of bitcoiners, that we all pray it never happens, and we keep trying our best to put more people in the crypto spaces into this knowledge never to support CEX or anything that has to do with aiding governments have control over Bitcoin.

We have been under the control of a few people who call themselves governments because of the monopoly of power they have (we gave them), and now we have the opportunity to be free from central control. We all have to do our best to make sure this opportunity never leaves our custody by supporting privacy with all we have.

[thecodebear]

Every day, we are using Bitcoin to buy goods and services, and also to receive money in return for goods and services from others.

We can send money anywhere around the world, without having to pay expensive fees* which have been set by a money transmitter.

But what if it wasn't like this?

What if we were no longer allowed to store bitcoin ourselves, and be forced to leave them on an approved exchange or bank?

What if we needed to submit identify verification every time we wanted to create an address?

What if lobbyists successfully split Bitcoin into two partitions - the restricted walled garden, and the rest of the world?

What if people in charge could set an arbitrarily high fee for anyone who wanted to make a transaction?

It's not so much about killing bitcoin, than it is controlling it. We are sleepwalking our way into a dystopia where Bitcoin is no longer "A Peer-To-Peer Digital Currency". Banks want their share of the pie, and with Bitcoin inevitably becoming a large force to reckon with, they will seek any way to get a share of it. So they will pay lobbyists to advocate rules that make it difficult for the normal person to use Bitcoin, while making even stricter tax reporting requirements when selling bitcoin. Sure, one may say it's the IRS collecting taxes, but then again, the government bails the banks out, time and time again. So what we have is "bitcoiners funding banks" indirectly.

Never allow this to happen, and you can do it by supporting privacy, wherever it exists.

Crypto privacy is the last weapon you have against financial corruption.

*If not mainnet, then Lightning Network.

But that's literally not how Bitcoin works. I mean sure a govt could technically make it illegal to own bitcoin yourself, though that would be preposterous. But that isn't how bitcoin works so it would be unenforceable. You'd just have people migrating away from centralized crypto exchanges to decentralized exchanges or other ways to buy bitcoin.

And identity verification to create an address?? what?? You can literally create an address on your own. You don't need anyone's approval or verification to create an address, so again, unenforceable.

Let's not worry about loony conspiracy theories alright. Let's focus on making Bitcoin better and growing adoption rather than talking about dystopian conspiracy theories. Just sayin. Don't worry so much dude hahaha. Enjoy the fact that you happen to be living during Bitcoin's birth and growth.

[Zaguru12]

What if we were no longer allowed to store bitcoin ourselves, and be forced to leave them on an approved exchange or bank?

I tell you this we are almost there. The sudden change of SEC policy just to allow the approval of ETF which has long been rejected by them seems like a way out for them right now. If people could hold spot in institutions like Blackrock then they don’t have anything to hide as I believe the benefits the government is getting from this ETF saga is that they can Atleast kill the focal point of privacy and properly manipulate the market too. After this ETF I see them coming hard for non-KYC platforms or decentralized ones. Sadly most investors are not aware of this or maybe they don’t care, all they are after is it’s price pumping because this new scheme will bring adoption

[0t3p0t]

What if we were no longer allowed to store bitcoin ourselves, and be forced to leave them on an approved exchange or bank?

I don't think this is possible as we all know they don't really know who are those people holding Bitcoins.

What if we needed to submit identify verification every time we wanted to create an address?

And this won't happen either as enthusiasts prefer to have privacy on every holdings. People will always find a way to stay decentralized as possible.

What if lobbyists successfully split Bitcoin into two partitions - the restricted walled garden, and the rest of the world?

Of course I will choose the one that keep it as is. No centralization no problem, we want privacy, our keys our coins.

What if people in charge could set an arbitrarily high fee for anyone who wanted to make a transaction?

Then hodl and let them realize that what they did does not makes any sense.

[legiteum]

It's not so much about killing bitcoin, than it is controlling it. We are sleepwalking our way into a dystopia where Bitcoin is no longer "A Peer-To-Peer Digital Currency".

For most (almost all?) holders of Bitcoin and other cryptos, the net-effect of their holding isn't peer-to-peer anyhow since they keep their account on some brokerage like CoinBase or Binance. Privacy-wise this is not that different than having money in a bank account and spending it. You can make anonymous payments, but I can't see a lot of people doing that since it's so slow/expensive.

And things like buying a car is pretty much free of any earthly advantage since you need to... register the car in your own name, etc.

And then there are rumors (or are they actually rumors anymore?) that the FBI is able to effectively trace bitcoin transactions.

Net-net, just like cash, if you try to cheat the government out of relative pennies e.g. food servers not reporting all of their cash tips, most likely the government won't go after you (I am in no way endorsing tax evasion here!).

But if you try to cheat the government out of a "lot" of money, you'll probably make it worth their while to catch you, and... using cryptocurrency probably isn't going to help you escape.

Cryptocurrencies are a speculation instrument and nothing else, and there's nothing wrong with that. If people could just get used to that idea, they would stop worrying about all of these non-issues that cryptos keep having e.g. their lack of adoption as a mainstream means of payment.

But what if it wasn't like this?

Short answer: it probably wouldn't make much difference to Bitcoin's price since the percentage of people using cryptos to evade detection by their government is probably very low (not saying it's "zero" or anything of the sort, but percentage-wise, I suspect it's very low).

[Queentoshi]

I must say reading this sent some cold to my belly because of the possibility that this is happening already, like there is already a siege ongoing against bitcoins to reduce its uniqueness, and we know nothing about it.

Never allow this to happen, and you can do it by supporting privacy, wherever it exists.

Crypto privacy is the last weapon you have against financial corruption.

how can we support privacy where it exists? I will like to know how exactly so I know my exact actions.

[hatshepsut93]

What if we were no longer allowed to store bitcoin ourselves, and be forced to leave them on an approved exchange or bank?

What if we needed to submit identify verification every time we wanted to create an address?

No way there will ever be regulations like that, it's too unrealistic to enforce. Bitcoin is mostly used as an investment, so governments will focus on regulating just that - having exchanges do KYC/AML. They are not even worried about people using it as a currency and not paying taxes, because people don't want to use it as a currency for many reasons like fees, volatility, deflation.

[franky1]

now for step one
what if i told you a decade ago SEC declared bitcoin as currency to start adding in legislation and regulation for businesses that use bitcoin to control the gateways in and out of bitcoin.

now for step 2
what if businesses cant make middlemen fees from bitcoin transactions so they sponsor devs to make bitcoin annoying to use where the options are CEX accounts to hoard, or locking coins into hubs to then use balance on subnetworks so middlemen can make fees on each payment

step 3
what if i told you the SEC started by getting CEX's to start reporting tax and gathering KYC.. and then...
.. now allowing ETF's that are if using a pension funds for tax free trading.. meaning holding actual coin will charge you tax per CEX trade but trading via pension fund ETF has no cap gains tax per trade..

step 4
what if i told you that using mixers actually get you watched more nd everyone conned into promoting mixers are actually making bitcoin get flagged as bad, thus the only "clean" coin is that held by regulated custodians. so each time you see mixer promoters shout "everyone should use a mixer" they are actually saying lets make bitcoin more annoying and troublesome for users

..
end result is
people avoid CEX to avoid KYC and IRS and if using mixers, definitely avoid CEX's.. so knowing cash-out options dry out and onchain is annoying. they end up locking value into subnetworks and then buy silly avatars of marvel characters or colourful hats and other silly things to spend down their coin giving middle men fees until their balance is gone. all due to the annoyances and fears pushed on them which they then trap themselves in by using the promoted services that pretend to free them but just end up giving them more traps to fall into

in the end users walk away with no balance left leaving the businesses hoarding the coin

..
its the old game
"holding real metal gold is cumbersome, expensive and security risk of theft.. invest in gold shares, they are easy, come with tax incentives, and dont require paperwork jsut to buy or sell $1k"

[Agbe]

This is a very nice thread in this month. But not many countries have started using most of the things you mentioned, like my country, and mostly in my locality I have not seen someone bought something or services with Bitcoin. But as for the boarderless transaction, I have done it. I have sent Bitcoin to someone at abroad and the transaction fee was very small compared to the traditional high fee I paid in 2009. And really if Bitcoin is controlled by the authorities then the ordinary people will suffer again. So as Bitcoin is like this let us work together to protect the decentralized nature of Bitcoin.  Thanks you for this thread.

[Abu-Naim]

Never allow this to happen, and you can do it by supporting privacy, wherever it exists.

Crypto privacy is the last weapon you have against financial corruption.

*If not mainnet, then Lightning Network.

The question I have is that, can sec bridge any anonymity or uniqueness of Bitcoin put down by Satoshi?

If no, then I thin just as you said, we should take our privacy serious by avoiding exchanges since SEC and other government agencies are trying to set some regulations to CEX in order to be controlling our Bitcoins we left in their custody.

It is time we stand against all the effort government is making to control the only financial freedom we have. Bitcoin is the only financial freedom we have, and we must stand against corruption.

[GeorgeJohn]

If wallet address is demanding a identity verification before it can be able to generate a wallet many people will feel very bad of it and I believe that people will dislike bitcoin, as I can see the major reasons while people invest in bitcoin confidently is because of privacy, and when you give people tax for generating address in bitcoin I think that will scare people away and not as many as will like to review their identity

[coolcoinz]

So they will pay lobbyists to advocate rules that make it difficult for the normal person to use Bitcoin, while making even stricter tax reporting requirements when selling bitcoin. Sure, one may say it's the IRS collecting taxes, but then again, the government bails the banks out, time and time again. So what we have is "bitcoiners funding banks" indirectly.

This is mainly a problem in the US and I see that bitcoin users who live there treat their legislation like it should concern the whole world, but it doesn't.
I live in the EU where we still have bitcoin tax havens. Even in countries that want people to pay tax on their bitcoin it's always a tax on profits, not on holding bitcoin. We don't have to report holding bitcoin and we don't have to report selling it for other cryptocurrencies.

The bottom line here is that this legislation is mainly the problem of the US where brainwashed democrats like Senator Warren are trying to turn people's lives into a red tape hell.
The silver lining is that from dozens of anti-crypto projects she submitted not a single one was approved by the Congress. I don't think that this one will, and if it does the States will be able to change their local laws to ignore it, like they did with the mining ban.

[Upgrade00]

It seems like a lot of people on this thread are oblivious to the privacy threat which has been afoot for sometime now.
Exchanges and mining are the two major points where privacy and decentralization can be lost, and at the current direction both will be hugely centralized in the coming years.

and although it seems quite possible such as BlackRock buying the shares of the BTC mining farms, it looks like there is no reaction to it since we are trusting so much of the network that they will not be able to control it since there are other countries who are also mining BTC.

We shouldn't trust. I believe there should be a protocol feature to prevent centralization.

[Assface16678]

There is a possibility for this, but of course, we bitcoin holders and investors will let it happen. No, of course, even though the government is still finding its way to crypto currency, they still can't take control of it. That's why, even today, they still haven't approved of bitcoin or crypto currency because they know they can't get anything from it.

I would rather bitcoin be still anonymous, wherein you are free to hide your identity in the network where your only identity is your wallet address. We need privacy, and Bitcoin is that one that gives that privacy. That's why even though the government is still in pursuit of Bitcoin, I'm against the fact that they want to control it, because if this happens, we will not have an asset that we can freely earn from. I don't want bitcoin to lose its value just because others want to make it public and controlled by anyone.

[sokani]

Back in the days, Moneygram and Western Union were the two most popular means of receiving money from relatives abroad. Sometimes, it could take close to a week for the bank to release the money to you after their routine checks and outrageous charges.

Since Bitcoin came into limelight, most of these services are beginning to disappear into thin air. Bitcoin has made transaction to be faster, cheaper and better. Bitcoin will always be a threat and since they cannot kill it with various sponsored propaganda, they've created their own Bitcoin (Bitcoin spot ETF). Who knows? Maybe in the future, they'll extinct DEXs and force the KYC CEXs on us because they want to exert control over us.

[komisariatku]

~snip~

Even though I don't like it, I suspect that in the future when Bitcoin is legal to use everywhere it will happen that we need to do KYC and taxes everywhere, I am very sure of that because taxes are a source of state income and they will not release taxes from profitable commodities like Bitcoin .

This sounds very bad because as you said, peer to peer will lose its soul and it is no different from fiat because our identity can be tracked easily through kyc, one of the best things we can do is just store bitcoins in our own wallets. Currently, what we all feared has almost happened, where most exchanges, gambling sites and other platforms have already requested KYC, and countries require it, if exchanges do not want to comply then one day their business could be closed.

But on the other hand, I believe there are always parties who disagree and can be a way to hide our identity, such as mixers, darkweb, and/or P2P exchanges. maybe

In the end we can only wait, wait for the future to come and hope that what we fear does not happen but I lack confidence