Have the rules of the DT system and Forum rules amended ? ? theymos

[borovichok]

Have the rules of the forum changed? Is it now possible to red tag someone based on personal assumptions and using invalid references?

Is it possible that our feedback pages have devolved into notebad or Todo lists, where you type anything before looking for evidence?

I've never used AI in any of my posts, and there's no proof that I ever did.

If my post irritates you, please report it to the moderator or ignore my profile. Do not red tag me and make me look like a criminal simply because you disagree with what I posted or how I posted.

 

borovichok" cannot be trusted ( means I'm criminal). There are serious accusations of this account using AI to post. I will revise the feedback if further information is presented.

Serious allegations without a single proof is abuse of the DT system. I've provided you with enough informations and yet your red is still on your profile. What else do you want ?

Cc theymos, Cyrus, JollyGood

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[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

I think you should move this thread to the Reputation section, and maybe you should have mentioned other DT members rather than mentioning theymos. He probably would not engage in this sort of discussion.

[borovichok]

I think you should move this thread to the Reputation section, and maybe you should have mentioned other DT members rather than mentioning theymos. He probably would not engage in this sort of discussion.

It has a lot to do with the entire forum not just an individual, I copied the two forum administrators + JollyGood. Maybe there are changes to the rules we don't know yet.

This thread could benefit us all.

[Rikafip]

Is it now possible to red tag someone based on personal assumptions and using invalid references?

Since DT system is not moderated, you can tag anyone you want for absolutely anything, but if you do it you risk ending on distrust list.

Is it possible that our feedback pages have devolved into notebad or Todo lists, where you type anything before looking for evidence?

That's just what JollyGood does sometimes.

I've never used AI in any of my posts, and there's no proof that I ever did.

I am not an expert on AI posts, but seems to me like the post in question for which you got tagged would be way more coherent if it was indeed written by AI and to me it looks more like a standard shitpost.

[PytagoraZ]

It looks like your post has been considered to use AI, you can see here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5224503.msg63382470#msg63382470

I don't think the DT system has changed and as rikafip said, the DT system is not moderated. If you feel the allegations against you are false then you can open a thread on the reputation board. I think you are wasting time if you post on this board and question to theymos.

However, because you will be dealing with JG, in my opinion it is not easy because other DT usually only give neutral tag to AI posts. But there's no harm in trying and good luck  

[digaran]

Whether a member is using AI, or garbage posting is a matter of forum policies and has nothing to do with DT, and seeing JG misusing the trust feedback for many times without anyone doing anything about it, just shows how level headed his peers are for including him on their lists.

[borovichok]

It looks like your post has been considered to use AI, you can see here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5224503.msg63382470#msg63382470

Here is the result of the said AI post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5480825.20

I don't think the DT system has changed and as rikafip said, the DT system is not moderated. If you feel the allegations against you are false then you can open a thread on the reputation board. I think you are wasting time if you post on this board and question to theymos.

He hasn't responded to any of the related thread in reputation board. Assume he has nothing to say.

[NotATether]

There have not been any changes to the DT system, people can basically tag anyone for whatever reason. Although I do not necessarily agree with the feedback that JollyGood left you, he has been leaving this kind of feedback on accounts for a while now, so why don't you try messaging him?

[borovichok]

There have not been any changes to the DT system, people can basically tag anyone for whatever reason. Although I do not necessarily agree with the feedback that JollyGood left you, he has been leaving this kind of feedback on accounts for a while now, so why don't you try messaging him?

I've left him multiple messages, no response. At this point I'm scared he might start reporting my messages to get me banned. I've been trying to sort it out with him on a mutual ground but no way.

[suchmoon]

Have the rules of the forum changed?

Why, are you expecting that shitposting is now allowed?

You may not deserve the red tag but you deserve a ban for being a useless illiterate shitposter. So keep pinging admins until you get that.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Whether a member is using AI, or garbage posting is a matter of forum policies and has nothing to do with DT, and seeing JG misusing the trust feedback for many times without anyone doing anything about it, just shows how level headed his peers are for including him on their lists.

To be fair, he isn't the first or only DT member to have a bunch of controversy swirling around him--or even the most controversy if I recall correctly. 

OP, the trust system (as it has evolved over the span of bitcointalk's existence) is pretty damn broken IMO, and I've been saying that for years.  In fact, I think it's broken for the main reason you mentioned, i.e., that anyone can leave any feedback for any member for any reason.  That's just setting up a system of trust for failure, no?  And if the default trust list isn't regulated properly, well....see how many threads there have been about JollyGood?  A lot of his feedbacks are valid, but he's strayed off-course so many times that at this point he probably feels like his position on the list is secured for life.

[borovichok]

Have the rules of the forum changed?

Why, are you expecting that shitposting is now allowed?

You may not deserve the red tag but you deserve a ban for being a useless illiterate shitposter. So keep pinging admins until you get that.

You have the right to your opinion. If you don't agree with what I write, add me to your ignore list or, better yet, use the report option. Don't use my feedback page as a notepad, and if you don't see anything wrong with JollyGood's decision, you're contributing to the DT problem. You go online and call a random stranger useless? Is everything all right at home?

OP, the trust system (as it has evolved over the span of bitcointalk's existence) is pretty damn broken IMO, and I've been saying that for years.  In fact, I think it's broken for the main reason you mentioned, i.e., that anyone can leave any feedback for any member for any reason.  That's just setting up a system of trust for failure, no?  And if the default trust list isn't regulated properly, well....see how many threads there have been about JollyGood?  A lot of his feedbacks are valid, but he's strayed off-course so many times that at this point he probably feels like his position on the list is secured for life.

JollyGood should get a notepad or better still use appropriate references to back his decisions.

[OgNasty]

You just have to get over it unfortunately.  The current state of DT is an absolute mess...  Look at my trust for example, I've never done anything even remotely shady, have safeguarded nearly 20,000 BTC in trades here, donated to the forum, donated to Bitcoin causes, safeguarded 500 BTC for the forum, spent 10 years donating to community projects to be distributed to members, and have created countless trusted products for users here.  Still, I have negative trust because DT has turned into a circle jerk of autists who are obsessed with gaining trust here not through value they provide, but by teaming up to blackball members who hurt their feelings or see things different politically.  It's an absolute failure and I hope one day it gets the attention it deserves, rather than laziness being disguised as freedom of speech. 

[borovichok]

You just have to get over it unfortunately.  The current state of DT is an absolute mess...  Look at my trust for example, I've never done anything even remotely shady, have safeguarded nearly 20,000 BTC in trades here, donated to the forum, donated to Bitcoin causes, safeguarded 500 BTC for the forum, spent 10 years donating to community projects to be distributed to members, and have created countless trusted products for users here.  Still, I have negative trust because DT has turned into a circle jerk of autists who are obsessed with gaining trust here not through value they provide, but by teaming up to blackball members who hurt their feelings or see things different politically.  It's an absolute failure and I hope one day it gets the attention it deserves, rather than laziness being disguised as freedom of speech. 

The DT system is too sensitive to be in the hands of sadists at this stage, and it need immediate intervention.  The forum is not yet ready for decentralized system. At this point, the DT system needs to be moderated.

It only takes a few seconds to revise/delete feedback, thus I'm not sure why JollyGood has yet to reconsider as he stated in his feedback.

[joker_josue]

You just have to get over it unfortunately.  The current state of DT is an absolute mess...  Look at my trust for example, I've never done anything even remotely shady, have safeguarded nearly 20,000 BTC in trades here, donated to the forum, donated to Bitcoin causes, safeguarded 500 BTC for the forum, spent 10 years donating to community projects to be distributed to members, and have created countless trusted products for users here.  Still, I have negative trust because DT has turned into a circle jerk of autists who are obsessed with gaining trust here not through value they provide, but by teaming up to blackball members who hurt their feelings or see things different politically.  It's an absolute failure and I hope one day it gets the attention it deserves, rather than laziness being disguised as freedom of speech.  

It's like those contests, where the public votes for whoever wins. I always say... usually the one with the most friends wins.  
And this is noticeable, because often the person who wins is not the one who actually demonstrated the best quality of talent.
But maybe the problem is me.  


EDIT: Either way, I think the DT system is very interesting and useful for the forum. Some end up not knowing how to use the tools they have at their disposal appropriately. But, anyway, I think it will be difficult to change. We have to learn to deal with it.

[suchmoon]

Have the rules of the forum changed?

Why, are you expecting that shitposting is now allowed?

You may not deserve the red tag but you deserve a ban for being a useless illiterate shitposter. So keep pinging admins until you get that.

You have the right to your opinion. If you don't agree with what I write, add me to your ignore list or, better yet, use the report option. Don't use my feedback page as a notepad, and if you don't see anything wrong with JollyGood's decision, you're contributing to the DT problem. You go online and call a random stranger useless? Is everything all right at home?

Nice strawman.

It's not a matter of me agreeing or liking your posts, it's you posting vague useless garbage. Here are some examples, starting with the deleted one that earned you that trust rating. Your post history is full of these similarly sized paragraphs of utter shit.

But sure, I'm the DT problem even though I don't even have JG in my trust list. You're dumber than I thought and it was a very low bar to begin with.

Stick to a player that's outstanding and confident in scoring points. Every team do triggered winning and losing, we have potentials of winning, if they do not have this hope, they wouldn't have compete or contend for any solidable points in the league. Thrilling victory is achievable and everyone has the right to be able to place wager on games. We all have choices to make and our favorites in the game. @morvillz making an exception of choosing Wilson or Flacco over Brownings bases on the tactical date examined, but the same underrated Brownings is the favorite of most viewers in the system.

Our lives can either go in a good path or wrong path, all depending on the decisions we take. Comfortable gamblers doesn't have anything to worry about, rather they're satisfied with the current circumstances they've found themselves and wouldn't allow anything to disturb them. There's this adage in the space "it's better to be clueless about something other than knowing something that will ruined your peace of mind" it's very simple. Gambler have no intentions other than grabbing good profits in the system, I've watch my colleagues grown to become an addict because he was too desperate and didn't hold back other than pressing forward for results.

No gambler is perfect, we just couldn't control ourselves and strict rules whenever we're in the system. We gamble for the wrong reason, there are numerous reasons why we gamble, mostly it should be for fun and not some ultimate prices of paying bills. We ought to become serious whenever we're in the system, we deal with what we think is important and served good priorities. Gamblers doesn't chase losses deliberately, they do it out of the present condition the faces from the system. No gambler plans for failure but due to circumstances they found themselves, they have no options than embraced losses.

There are advices that will be given but newbies will think it's one of the means to prohibit them from trading, if you're a newbie, don't open any trade option without comprehending with appropriate knowledge what the marker is all about, I don't want the mistake that happen to me repeat itself to any one I've known or seen online. Yeah, you're right. A newbie ought to become practically balance and accurate in triggering open trade and also closing trades on demo account for preparation for the main tasks ahead, before hooping for the real acounts.

[borovichok]

Nice strawman.

It's not a matter of me agreeing or liking your posts, it's you posting vague useless garbage. Here are some examples, starting with the deleted one that earned you that trust rating. Your post history is full of these similarly sized paragraphs of utter shit.

But sure, I'm the DT problem even though I don't even have JG in my trust list. You're dumber than I thought and it was a very low bar to begin with.

Stay on topic, suchmoon, or go elsewhere. We're talking about inadequate left feedback here, and your comments are irrelevant/unhelpful. Something is wrong yet you can't say it.

EDIT: Either way, I think the DT system is very interesting and useful for the forum. Some end up not knowing how to use the tools they have at their disposal appropriately. But, anyway, I think it will be difficult to change. We have to learn to deal with it.

Everyone who knows how to use the DT system is against JollyGood's feedback on my profile, but he doesn't care or respect anyone's judgment. I cannot comprehend why he has a personal issue with me; he doesn't even know who I am. Total strangers

[mikeywith]

To be fair, he isn't the first or only DT member to have a bunch of controversy swirling around him--or even the most controversy if I recall correctly. 

I think JollyGood is following Lauda's footsteps. I have been watching his feedback for a while, and he indeed does a great job in tagging scammers. However, he has become pretty heavy-handed, and his use of the trust system goes against what I believe should be. Thus, I had to sadly exclude him from my trust list.

I don't necessarily think he is not fit for DT; I just think I would rather let five scammers slip than be unfair to a single innocent person. I also disagree with how some DT members use the trust system to enforce the forum rules, or even worse, their own rules for posting criteria, political agenda, and I think many DT members agree with this but are just selfish. As long as it doesn't affect them, they remain in their DT seat and don't personally dislike the person; they would just let it be. Maybe some would say something politically nice like "I don't agree with the tag, but I understand why" and move on with their lives.

I hope JollyGood starts rethinking such feedback and focuses only on tagging users who are either proven scammers or very likely to be scammers with somewhat valid evidence at hand.

[Timelord2067]

There's a small core group - (a sub set really) of thin skinned DT Trolls whose only weapons are to employ Fear, Uncertainty or Doubt (FUD) to, one-by-one, pick off anyone that even remotely has a differing option to their own.

They will create flags with little or no substance, give other users negative trust feedback and place negative DT trust telling others that it is your OPINION as to whether or not you trust the other person's trust feedback - then collectively Tilda a user who airs anything that they see is contrary.

Until the mixers were banned from this forum, they spent all day posting such nonsense for the pennies gained from mixer campaigns.

Now they are rudderless and lashinging out at yet more people.

If you want to push back, objectively best them at their own GAME (I emphasise game, because that is all they see it is as a game) - they even maintain a high score site of which I'm ~29 to ~-32 at the moment)

It's just a number.

[suchmoon]

Stay on topic, suchmoon, or go elsewhere. We're talking about inadequate left feedback here, and your comments are irrelevant/unhelpful. Something is wrong yet you can't say it.

I can say it and I'm saying it. You're what's wrong. Doesn't make JG right but JG's feedback doesn't make you right either. Ideally JG should be out of DT and you should be banned.

You're the one who started a thread about forum rules. DT feedback is not subject to forum rules. You're the one breaking the rules.