What if authorities launch a tax for owning bitcoin?

[WeThePe0ple]

It's just YouTube, but today I ran across a video that mentioned a bitcoin HODL tax.

In order to stop bitcoin, authorities would have to shut down the internet which is impossible. So I predict that their next move is to launch enormous taxes to discourage people from owning bitcoin, and prevent mass adoption as competition for their corrupted CBDC's that still have to be launched. The purpose of their regulations is to take over the entire bitcoin market, of course. They will make you sell, either by launching huge taxes for ownership or by treating the owner of 1 BTC like a drug dealer (prison sentence).

So we need a gameplan against this.

Can we be exposed to taxation or legal penalties when the wallet is reported as stolen? I think not, but I want to be sure.
I don't think you can pay taxes on something you do not officially own. And neither can you pay taxes when you don't have money or own other assets.

I have purchased my first BTC on a regulated exchange with KYC. I don't prefer it because of privacy reasons, but I had no other choice at the time. From there it will go to my coldstorage device, which I consider reporting as stolen if a ownership tax is launched. However, authorities would know the BTC address (exchange will provide it) and every future transaction that came from it. So I could never move the funds after reporting it as stolen (I guess) as this demonstrates they were not stolen.

Can I transfer the BTC from my current address, to an address that no government can ever link to me?

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[franky1]

lets compare  to other things that have property tax just for ownership
real estate property tax is only applied due to ongoing municipal costs of the streets around the real estate. things like pot-holes, landscaping, electrifying the streetlamps and traffic lights aswell as other public services

there is no monetary loss to government for someone owning bitcoin. there are no government maintenance costs involved
the only tax they "should" legally charge is capital gains. but this "should" be on realised gains upon a sale, not equity value increase per year

[Nwada001]

Can I transfer the BTC from my current address, to an address that no government can ever link to me?

Unless you use a DEX to swap and exchange bitcoin for other coins like Monero and then use another wallet to buy and receive bitcoin, the wallet will still be linked to the address that you send it to. If you ever want to trace that transaction, let's not forget that it's a public blockchain and transactions can be tracked by anyone who has access to the address on the blockchain.
 
There are means to clean up coins that you have already bought from the centralized exchange; either you can exchange them anonymously or you can send them back to the centralized exchange where you bought them and exchange them back to Fiat, where you can later use the fiat to buy from Dex P2P, where one will know what the funds were used for and only you will know what address and the amount of bitcoin that you hold.

[ChiBitCTy]

I think this is pretty ridiculous and there's no chance of this ever happening.  I guess it's never a bad idea to think about all sorts of different possibilities that there could be coming with owning bitcoin, but, I just don't see this one ever coming to fruition.  I mean how would they even go about tracking everyone down and holding them accountable? 

Also, if they ever come to tax my bitcoin that I'm simply hodling, I will let them know they can suck it out of the tip of my ... yeah.

[wallet4bitcoin]

It's just YouTube, but today I ran across a video that mentioned a bitcoin HODL tax.

In order to stop bitcoin, authorities would have to shut down the internet which is impossible. So I predict that their next move is to launch enormous taxes to discourage people from owning bitcoin, and prevent mass adoption as competition for their corrupted CBDC's that still have to be launched. The purpose of their regulations is to take over the entire bitcoin market, of course. They will make you sell, either by launching huge taxes for ownership or by treating the owner of 1 BTC like a drug dealer (prison sentence).

So we need a gameplan against this.

Can we be exposed to taxation or legal penalties when the wallet is reported as stolen? I think not, but I want to be sure.
I don't think you can pay taxes on something you do not officially own. And neither can you pay taxes when you don't have money or own other assets.

I have purchased my first BTC on a regulated exchange with KYC. I don't prefer it because of privacy reasons, but I had no other choice at the time. From there it will go to my coldstorage device, which I consider reporting as stolen if a ownership tax is launched. However, authorities would know the BTC address (exchange will provide it) and every future transaction that came from it. So I could never move the funds after reporting it as stolen (I guess) as this demonstrates they were not stolen.

Can I transfer the BTC from my current address, to an address that no government can ever link to me?

It is pertinent to note that all these unscrupulous shenanigans by government and its arms are just a way of getting at Bitcoiners and they are only enjoying their limited time as Bitcoin gradually gains adoption. Uoon massive adoption, people will prefer to use Bitcoin thereby activating its peer-to-peer feature which entirely eliminates the government from interfering or taxing transactions that doesn't involve their traditional finance systems.

[WeThePe0ple]

lets compare  to other things that have property tax just for ownership
real estate property tax is only applied due to ongoing municipal costs of the streets around the real estate. things like pot-holes, landscaping, electrifying the streetlamps and traffic lights aswell as other public services

there is no monetary loss to government for someone owning bitcoin. there are no government maintenance costs involved
the only tax they "should" legally charge is capital gains. but this "should" be on realised gains upon a sale, not equity value increase per year

What I personally predict for the future, although I am not sure:

"We must prevent the convertibility of US dollars to bitcoin, to protect the monetary stability of our banking system" --> This would be a copy of Nixon's speech in 1971, when he denied the convertibility of USD to gold. Do not forget that banks are vulnerable to liquidity. If people start pulling out their savings because BTC reaches a new ATH, banks get very nervous. Your savings are lent out to someone else and they hate to let them go.

"We must stop terrorists and money launderers, who always use bitcoin for their illicit activity". In fact I have already heard this line multiple times from people like Elisabeth Warren and Gary Gensler. It's a BS argument of course. JP Morgan was buying up all BTC while Warren said this in congress. All they want is complete ownership of the BTC market.

I strongly believe they will do it by creating maximum sell pressure. 1) By dumping the price and scare people into selling, 2) By launching enormous ownership taxes, 3) By making it illegal to buy it. They want control, and they will not allow us to own anything they don't know about

[joker_josue]

If this happens in your country, you can come to Portugal.

Here, taxes are only paid on gains, relating to buy/sale made in the last year.
In other words, if I sell Bitcoin purchased in 2022, I will not pay tax. But if you sell Bitcoin purchased in 2023, you will already pay tax.

That's why it's the "ideal country" for HOLD.  

[BitcoinPanther]

Can I transfer the BTC from my current address, to an address that no government can ever link to me?

If the fund is coming from an exchange and you do a normal transfer then the government can easily track the owner of the Bitcoin funds unless you use a privacy coins.

I do not think that it is reasonable for the government to impose tax to those who are just holding Bitcoin.  As far as I know only transaction that yields profit are taxable.  Those trades where the trader losses are tax exempted so as long as your Bitcoin holdings does not give you a profitable transaction there is no way the government will impose income tax on it.

[WeThePe0ple]

There are means to clean up coins that you have already bought from the centralized exchange; either you can exchange them anonymously or you can send them back to the centralized exchange where you bought them and exchange them back to Fiat, where you can later use the fiat to buy from Dex P2P, where one will know what the funds were used for and only you will know what address and the amount of bitcoin that you hold.

Thanks a lot for this. Throughout 2024, this is what I will have to look into.
I'm a medical student and the director of the school likes to brag about his finances. His lawyer has inside information about my country launching much higher taxes on most assets people own privately. Even though he is a multi millionaire, he owns nothing privately. Most assets are registered as part of business. He already mentioned that at some point he is looking to move abroad because what he does now is no longer sustainable.

After marriage I will have dual citizenship (1 EU, 1 non EU), which I think is very valuable when the government tries to go after BTC with tax robbery.
I do wonder if their ownership tax plan will cause a collapse of the markets. If you can't exchange BTC freely or use it as a means of payment, that has to crash the price.

[WeThePe0ple]

If this happens in your country, you can come to Portugal.

Here, taxes are only paid on gains, relating to buy/sale made in the last year.
In other words, if I sell Bitcoin purchased in 2022, I will not pay tax. But if you sell Bitcoin purchased in 2023, you will already pay tax.

That's why it's the "ideal country" for HOLD.  

It's the same in my country, but that may change soon.

I'm planning to take profits after this bull run, but taxes in my country are huge. The centralized exchange will provide my government with my transaction history as soon as they are asked about it.

Can I avoid this with DEX?
I know a guy who has already collected multiple BTC. He took profits on regular occasions and he doesn't want to leave the profits on an exchange, of course. So he opened bank accounts in 2 other countries. He was already contacted by our government. They immediately know. Unless you are a millionaire based in Dubai or Switzerland, where the law does not force banks to share information with your homecountry.

I always considered buying crypto a one way street. You can deposit from banks to exchanges, but as soon as you go from exchanges back to banks, it alerts the tax thieves and they will go after your transaction history.

I considered options like stablecoins but these are risky as they are under attack.
I've also heard that privacy coins like Monero are under government attack, being forced to be delisted.

I wonder who will win the battle. But there is hope

[goap]

1.  The government does not want to shut down bitcoin I don't know where you got that from. They approved 11 Bitcoin ETF's a couple days ago.

2.  Yes, you can buy on a KYC exchange and then transfer the funds to an address that the government cannot link you to. Use the bitcoin address of any non-custodial wallet of your choice. You will not get taxed until you move it from that Non-KYC wallet back to an exchange to sell.  That's the best way to go about it in your situation. Reporting anything stolen won't help you.  

[WeThePe0ple]

As far as I know only transaction that yields profit are taxable. 

Well I want to take profits after this bull run. Imagine I invest 20k and it shoots to 100k. The 80k "profit" will be converted to fiat on the exchange, but it will be reinvested when I think the time is right. But under the current law in my country, I would have to pay more than 50% of taxes on this profit so that totally eats up the amount to reinvest. I can never expand my BTC portfolio when the government takes more than 50% of every withdrawal. That is not just a tax. That is legalised confiscation of assets.

[Hewlet]

It's just YouTube, but today I ran across a video that mentioned a bitcoin HODL tax.

In order to stop bitcoin, authorities would have to shut down the internet which is impossible. So I predict that their next move is to launch enormous taxes to discourage people from owning bitcoin, and prevent mass adoption as competition for their corrupted CBDC's that still have to be launched. The purpose of their regulations is to take over the entire bitcoin market, of course. They will make you sell, either by launching huge taxes for ownership or by treating the owner of 1 BTC like a drug dealer (prison sentence).

So we need a gameplan against this.

Can we be exposed to taxation or legal penalties when the wallet is reported as stolen? I think not, but I want to be sure.
I don't think you can pay taxes on something you do not officially own. And neither can you pay taxes when you don't have money or own other assets.

I have purchased my first BTC on a regulated exchange with KYC. I don't prefer it because of privacy reasons, but I had no other choice at the time. From there it will go to my coldstorage device, which I consider reporting as stolen if a ownership tax is launched. However, authorities would know the BTC address (exchange will provide it) and every future transaction that came from it. So I could never move the funds after reporting it as stolen (I guess) as this demonstrates they were not stolen.

Can I transfer the BTC from my current address, to an address that no government can ever link to me?

whats  the sense of the tax in a decentralized system? If my understanding on the system of taxing isn't wrong, using the regular bank as an instance, government only impose tax in institutions like banks and not the user of the banks. What we pay for using the bank is basically bank charges while the banks are held to pay tax.

since bitcoin is a decentralized system that, who will be responsible for the payment of the tax?

Is it Satoshi? Or thymos?

I don't see this happening to b honest and if we are looking at tu possible strategies that the government can impose on bitcoin use to make it fall under government regulation then we should be talking about creating something like a bitcoin bank or stuff like that which has a physical presence

[BTC_Dragon]

BTC by its very nature precludes centralization, and thus governments. They can attempt to do whatever they want. BTC will fill the cracks of attempted centralization like water seeking its level.

[BIT-BENDER]

I don't know about other countries but their is no government tax for individuals holding Fiat, although banks takes their charges depending on the bank but the government don't directly charge the individual for holding Fiat in my country so why should someone pay any tax for holding Bitcoin.
If there is any tax in that regards then it's an infringement to the person's freedom and right. Holding Bitcoin is not in any way the concern of the government and also Bitcoin is decentralised and no government, or institution can forcefully take your Bitcoin if saved in your personal wallet.

[kentrolla]

lets compare  to other things that have property tax just for ownership
real estate property tax is only applied due to ongoing municipal costs of the streets around the real estate. things like pot-holes, landscaping, electrifying the streetlamps and traffic lights aswell as other public services

there is no monetary loss to government for someone owning bitcoin. there are no government maintenance costs involved
the only tax they "should" legally charge is capital gains. but this "should" be on realised gains upon a sale, not equity value increase per year

Government don't care whether we gain or lose in Bitcoin or crypto in general and rather they are more focused on discouraging people from using crypto and I am not sure if you are aware but Indian government has already applied a atrocious tax on crypto and even 1%TDS on every transaction and even if you want to make a trade you gotta pay the tax which eats up the profit and this has been implied over Indian based exchanges thus literally killing Indian exchanges are people have shifted to international exchanges like Binance but now they have pressurised Apple to remove apps like top centralized international exchanges from App store. If Indian government has done it then any government can do this. Need to have back up plans

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

If the government launches taxation on Bitcoin holders, I don't think they can possibly make every Bitcoin holder pay such a tax. The reason is that some people have already stored their Bitcoin in a cold wallet, and those holders are definitely keeping their hardware wallet safe in a place where only they can reach it.

So, the government cannot actually determine everyone  owing Bitcoin unless they work in collaboration with centralized exchanges to identify users who have passed KYC on those exchanges, and the exchange can further help them get details on the amount of Bitcoin that the investor has purchased. That's a reminder to every Bitcoiner to note that KYC is actually a trap that the government might use any time they want to get to Bitcoin users. Not only the government, but scammers and hackers can also take advantage of a user's personal details obtained from KYCs.

Also, if this kind of law is passed by the government, it definitely will not affect all countries in the world; people can move to a crypto-non-taxing country and carry out their crypto activities there.

[jrrsparkles]

If they want they can and nobody can actually stop them but it won't be fair just to impose such kind of tax especially for crypto alone so they have to follow same thing to stocks too and if that happened then every billionaire has to pay millions of dollars to the government so they will not be in support of such taxation which means that kind of taxation will not be imposed.

Can I transfer the BTC from my current address, to an address that no government can ever link to me?

Yes, you can via mixing the coin which can help with breaking the links between your origin address and destination.

[Xxmodded]

In my country have adopted with tax of cryptocurrency almost one year but we can manage well transaction in global exchange and sell to fiat trough P2P exchange on binance or other exchange have supported with P2P. Actually not comfortable position when have to pay taxes for cryptocurrency transaction but its not much problem if your country have been legal using bitcoin or altcoin as payment transaction.
Have problem in my country bitcoin or altcoin is not legal digital currency payment but we have to pay taxes on every time transaction with local exchange market for buying and selling order.

You have way how to stop from cryptocurrency tax, check global exchange in your country not adopt with tax and trade there for selling or buying bitcoin then you can withdraw trough P2P exchange for getting fiat fund.

[alastantiger]

It's just YouTube, but today I ran across a video that mentioned a bitcoin HODL tax.

The term refers to taxes incurred when holding spot Bitcoin ETFs and not the real bitcoin as mentioned in this YouTube video

So I predict that their next move is to launch enormous taxes to discourage people from owning bitcoin, and prevent mass adoption as competition for their corrupted CBDC's that still have to be launched.

If you live in the United States, there is already a tax on the profit you make from any bitcoin sold. If you buy your bitcoins at $400 and sell at $500 on centralized exchanges Binance, Coinbase and the others, they are bound by the law to report this gains to the IRS. The only gameplan against this is to evade the tax by selling your bitcoin on a decentralized exchange. To pay less tax on bitcoin capital gains, consider a long-term capital gains than short term capital gains.

Can we be exposed to taxation or legal penalties when the wallet is reported as stolen? I think not, but I want to be sure.
I don't think you can pay taxes on something you do not officially own. And neither can you pay taxes when you don't have money or own other assets.

Like I have said earlier, you are only taxed on bitcoin sold at a profit.