Sportbet.one uses bogus card counting excuse to confiscate $13,705 from me

[RectangleRock]

I signed up a week ago to bet sports at Sportbet.one. Yesterday I transferred USDT $1000 to their live dealer casino. Within 45 minutes of playing live dealer blackjack I ran that up to $14,705. When I tried to transfer my casino balance back to the sportsbook it went under review for 12 hours, after which time they transferred just my original $1000 back to the sportsbook and removed all my winnings, sending me the following explanation by email:


Your casino session #55516 was canceled after the results of the provider's investigation.

The official response of the provider:
Checked the player's gameplay for signs of fraudulent activity. The investigation found that the user benefits by using shuffle tracking and card counting techniques.

You also violated several basic rules of our platform:

The betting company reserves the right to revoke the concluded betting agreement (including the bets placed before and after the beginning of the event), refuse to fulfill its obligations under this agreement (including paying out the winnings), or refuse to return any placed bets , if:

- bets are made by a group of clients acting in a coalition to bypass the restrictions established by the betting company;

- the client is suspected of using any software that automates the process of setting bets;

- the client uses the game account to play in arbitration situations;

The full text of the rules can be found here: https://sportbet.one/rules.

This time we are refunding your deposit and strongly recommend you to follow our platform rules.




Firstly, I did not engage in any “shuffle tracking” or “counting techniques”. Here is the debit/credit history of each hand and a video where I go through the entire 89 hand history of the session so there can be complete transparency of the hands I played and the bet amounts I made.

https://i.postimg.cc/g2vXGJrJ/sportbetone-history.jpg
https://streamable.com/3l4kpq

I don’t know much about advantage blackjack play but I’ve seen enough movies to know that it’s a long grind and you would dramatically change your bet size based on the count of the deck. You can see by my debit/credit history that my session was short (45 minute), and I started off betting $500/hand and varied it by no more than $100-$200 per hand up to a maximum of $1000 a hand. Also you can see by my hand history that I won 13 of my first 17 hands of the session which accounted for the bulk of my winnings, and the pattern I exhibit is betting slightly more after a run of consecutive losses and slightly less after a run of consecutive wins. There would have been a few card shuffle changes within this session but that was the consistent pattern I exhibited and my bet size did not materially change due to any other factors throughout my session.

Also out of the 89 blackjack hands I played I experienced a net loss in 46 of them and a net gain in just 43 of them. Where I did experience winnings were on side bets such as “perfect pair” and “rummy”, which no advantage player would participate in. I placed roughly 20% of my blackjack stake on each and every hand on these side bets and just got lucky there.

So after they get this bogus explanation from the gaming supplier (Ezugi, part of Evolution), they cite several rules that I would have broken.


- bets are made by a group of clients acting in a coalition to bypass the restrictions established by the betting company;

- the client is suspected of using any software that automates the process of setting bets;

- the client uses the game account to play in arbitration situations;

All these rules:  1) syndicate play, 2) automated betting software, 3) arbitrage are all related to SPORTS BETTING. These have nothing to do with the casino play or what they are falsely accused me of, nor do they have any other rules on the matter. So even if I was doing some sort of advantage play in the casino, (which I wasn’t!), they don’t even have specific rules against it. They are simply making up accusations then applying unrelated rules to avoid having to pay out legitimate winners.

The last thing I’ll address is their claim that they are decentralized. Other than accepting crypto as a form of payment there’s absolutely nothing decentralized about them. They take custody and withhold customers funds with impunity.

Sportsbet.one have yet to reply to any further emails on this matter so I encourage them to discuss their decision and rational to confiscate funds openly on this forum.

[Bitcoin_Arena]

Seems like a very complicated case that might require an experienced and trustworthy arbitrator. As just a forum member, it's hard to know as of now who could be right or wrong.
Have you considered raising this complaint on a platform like Askgamblers or casinoguru? If you do, please share a link here to keep as posted on how the case gets resolved.
I discovered you have already notified them on their Official ANN.

[RectangleRock]

Seems like a very complicated case that might require an experienced and trustworthy arbitrator. As just a forum member, it's hard to know as of now who could be right or wrong.
Have you considered raising this complaint on a platform like Askgamblers or casinoguru? If you do, please share a link here to keep as posted on how the case gets resolved.
I discovered you have already notified them on their Official ANN.

Its really not that complex. They offer casino for customers to play, I played and won, they stole my money. I offered full bet history to show my style of play for everyone to verify and agree or disagree whether i did something nefarious.

I am starting my journey for justice here. Hopefully Sporsbet.one come to their senses and it'll end here, and I will delete the post or mark it as happily resolved and we could move on. If necessary I'm prepared to take this to every forum, complaint platform, arbiter, regulator etc, I hope it doesn't come to that but what other recourse do i have...

[AHOYBRAUSE]

Seems like an odd excuse not to pay.
I also looked over the game history and looking at the bet sizes there is not 1 indication he did perform any card counting or other "advanced play".
As OP stated, real card counting takes hours, his session wasn't even 1 hour.

You would bet small when the count is low and bet big when the count is high. In his history he barely changed the betting sizes.
This is also the first time I ever read about a casino accusing a player of card counting, I always thought this is not as profitable as in a real casino because the shoe consists of much fewer card decks and also the shuffle often happens after 50% of the shoe is done.

Other then in a different scam accusation some months ago I never heard of this site and this surely looks like the site wants to free roll the player.

[holydarkness]

I am not a gambling expert, so I can't be sure if it's doable, but I keep wondering how do they know if someone using any app [or their mind] to do those allegation. Arbitrage betting, I can understand, they cross-check with other books and platforms. But card counting? They turn on someone's webcam and see if the player is frowning excessively or keep scribbling something, or perhaps get into the device's system and scan for any app running? I'm genuinely curious and would love if anyone can give me an educated guess.

Meanwhile, as you've notify the representative on their ANN earlier today, I am refraining from sending them an invitation through PM for the time being. I can see that they're very recently online. Let's see if they'll address this issue within a short time frame. If it's still left unaddressed for few more days, I'll call them here. I hope you can exercise patience.

[348Judah]

Seems like a very complicated case that might require an experienced and trustworthy arbitrator. As just a forum member, it's hard to know as of now who could be right or wrong.
Have you considered raising this complaint on a platform like Askgamblers or casinoguru? If you do, please share a link here to keep as posted on how the case gets resolved.
I discovered you have already notified them on their Official ANN.

Its really not that complex. They offer casino for customers to play, I played and won, they stole my money. I offered full bet history to show my style of play for everyone to verify and agree or disagree whether i did something nefarious.

When things like this happens, it's very difficult to judge on where the fault is, you're only telling olus your own part of the story, am sure they would have something to say as well if asked , but can you share with us the reason they give for an excuse for doing this on you, am sure they cannot just denied you without giving a reason for that, have you now considered talking to them through any of their contacts on that same issue, what was the response you've received, I believe well you made a research about them before using them as your preferred gambling platform and trusted them to that extent before now.

[EarnOnVictor]

It is unfortunate to read this again, I hope that all these scams by casinos can stop one day. It would have been less painful if the person engaged in unhealthy practices. But they just do as they like especially if you are good in what you do, then you are a threat to them. Do not even speak much, it didn't start today, it's been a long time since they used their professional knowledge to swindle gamblers which is very sad

I still responded to a post last week quoting similar excuses by casinos, this is highly unfair, especially when they are the sole decider in the case. Won't they judge in their own favour? That is if there is a case at all because most of these kinds of allegations are often cooked by crook casinos, not that they are real, so it is not new. If it were to be in the court or with another independent investigator, it would have been fair and better, but how can a company be the judge all by itself to conclude on such a matter?

What first came to my mind when I was reading was the so-called "shuffle tracking" allegation that could be alien to you, not to talk of the other. To make matters worse, they will now be quoting the section of their terms and conditions. This is a usual style but I feel for you. Sorry about this, you might want to take it up with them, but since the money is not big enough, it is a discouragement. It's another call for you to be more careful in selecting your casino. You might want to move on from here.

[RectangleRock]

Thank you for taking the time to read the thread and comment here

you're only telling olus your own part of the story, am sure they would have something to say as well if asked , but can you share with us the reason they give for an excuse for doing this on you,

Did you see the blue text in my original post? That included a video with my entire play history and their response in its entirety. The crux of what they accuse me of is "using shuffle tracking and card counting techniques." I then go on to explain in my original post how their analysis doesn't make sense given my game play.

So they did give a reason but I believe I made a solid case that it wasnt true and they dont actually have rules against it even if it was

[Rating Place]

This one is pretty obvious that the player isn't at fault. There is no way in the world that a casino is going to allow player advantage in blackjack in today's games with a live dealer. It's prevented by early shuffling and multi-decks. Many people can count cards in their head, electronics isn't needed.

How many decks are used? How often is it shuffled? Can we see the game play and do a count ourselves to see if any type of advantage play was obtained. It's really impossible since bets didn't go from $2 to $1000. The variance in your bets isn't large enough to obtain any type of advantage.

When people count cards they want to make the bets as small as possible until the count is in their favor and then they want them as big as possible. That's why it's normally done in teams. One person sits at the table betting the minimum amount. When the count is right, a partner jumps in the table betting maximum amounts. Teams are even better since multiple people can jump in when the count is in their favor.

[SportBet.one]

Dear Cliff,

General Rules https://sportbet.one/rules apply to both sportsbook and casino. Every player should respect and follow them but you broke several:

1. You violated  Section 1 of "GENERAL TERMS AND CONDITIONS" (multi-accounting) by creating at least 2 accounts within sportbet.one platform.

2. You violated all the rules from "GENERAL TERMS AND CONDITIONS" section 2 (highlighted in bold):

"The betting company reserves the right to revoke the concluded betting agreement (including the bets placed before and after the beginning of the event), refuse to fulfill its obligations under this agreement (including paying out the winnings), or refuse to return any placed bets, if:
- bets are made by a group of clients acting in a coalition to bypass the restrictions established by the betting company;
- the client is suspected of using any software that automates the process of setting bets;
- the client uses the game account to play in arbitration situations;
- the client abuses the loyalty programs."

As a result of the above the company has deducted all the winnings on both accounts leaving initial deposits available for withdrawal. The decision is final.

Please note, that further abuse attempts will lead to the complete confiscation of all funds from your balance and the closure of your accounts.

Regards,
Karin

[Rating Place]

Dear Cliff,

General Rules https://sportbet.one/rules apply to both sportsbook and casino. Every player should respect and follow them but you broke several:

1. You violated  Section 1 of "GENERAL TERMS AND CONDITIONS" (multi-accounting) by creating at least 2 accounts within sportbet.one platform.

2. You violated all the rules from "GENERAL TERMS AND CONDITIONS" section 2 (highlighted in bold):

"The betting company reserves the right to revoke the concluded betting agreement (including the bets placed before and after the beginning of the event), refuse to fulfill its obligations under this agreement (including paying out the winnings), or refuse to return any placed bets, if:
- bets are made by a group of clients acting in a coalition to bypass the restrictions established by the betting company;
- the client is suspected of using any software that automates the process of setting bets;
- the client uses the game account to play in arbitration situations;
- the client abuses the loyalty programs."

As a result of the above the company has deducted all the winnings on both accounts leaving initial deposits available for withdrawal. The decision is final.

Please note, that further abuse attempts will lead to the complete confiscation of all funds from your balance and the closure of your accounts.

Regards,
Karin

His play shows it impossible to have an advantage. What follows doesn’t matter bc his play shows no advantage but I’m curious to your conclusion.

Can you tell us how many decks are used for blackjack and how often you reshuffle? No electronic means is needed to count and I can’t see any online casino allowing an advantage in blackjack in 2024.

[RectangleRock]

Dear Cliff,

General Rules https://sportbet.one/rules apply to both sportsbook and casino. Every player should respect and follow them but you broke several:

1. You violated  Section 1 of "GENERAL TERMS AND CONDITIONS" (multi-accounting) by creating at least 2 accounts within sportbet.one platform.

2. You violated all the rules from "GENERAL TERMS AND CONDITIONS" section 2 (highlighted in bold):

"The betting company reserves the right to revoke the concluded betting agreement (including the bets placed before and after the beginning of the event), refuse to fulfill its obligations under this agreement (including paying out the winnings), or refuse to return any placed bets, if:
- bets are made by a group of clients acting in a coalition to bypass the restrictions established by the betting company;
- the client is suspected of using any software that automates the process of setting bets;
- the client uses the game account to play in arbitration situations;
- the client abuses the loyalty programs."

As a result of the above the company has deducted all the winnings on both accounts leaving initial deposits available for withdrawal. The decision is final.

Please note, that further abuse attempts will lead to the complete confiscation of all funds from your balance and the closure of your accounts.

Regards,
Karin

Karin / Sportbet.one

While I do appreciate you addressing this matter I dont appreciate you using my name. I provided it to you privately via email and I didnt expect you to use it in a public forum, contrary to your own privacy policy. I think an operator that touts how their site provides safety in anonymity would value and respect that.

Its unfortunate that you are sidestepping the significant concerns raised in my original post about the card counting claim and shifting focus to unsubstantiated claims around duplicate accounts. Myself and the betting community need the original matter to be fully addressed.

I dont know anything about having multiple accounts at Sportbet.one. Even if there were multiple accounts in my case it would have had no impact on all the rules you raised in bold text. I never acted in coordination with a group of clients to bypass bet limits, I didnt use automated software, I didnt participate in arbitrage betting, and I never took any bonuses.

By the way I was able to just make a new deposit and place further sports bets on your platform. Do you just allow winning bets to be confiscated but i'm free to keep betting so long as they end up losing?

Sportbet.one you seem to be trying to throw every rule at legitimate customers hoping something will stick, this just isnt ethical or fair.

Furthermore you go to significant lengths to sell your site on the fact that you have no custodial control over clients funds https://sportbet.one/OnePager.pdf  "money not kept on company's accounts, "we wont block your money..we dont even have it on the platform", "winnings are paid directly to your wallet", "bet without addition risks and problematic withdrawals". These claims are at direct odds with what is happening to me right now. You require customers to relinquish custody of their funds and decided to unilaterally  seize and confiscated them. There's nothing decentralized about that!


Bottom line is Sportbet.one how can anyone trust you?

Explain why you falsely accused me of card counting
Explain why you divulged my personal information publicly
Explain how I have a duplicate account
Explain how I broke any of the terms listed in bold (bypass bet limits, automated bots, bonus abuse, arbitrage betting)
Explain why you allow customers to bet and lose but deduct funds only when they win?
Explain why you claim that customers funds are in their control yet you have the ability to seize and confiscate them.

[holydarkness]

[...]
Furthermore you go to significant lengths to sell your site on the fact that you have no custodial control over clients funds https://sportbet.one/OnePager.pdf  "money not kept on company's accounts, "we wont block your money..we dont even have it on the platform", "winnings are paid directly to your wallet", "bet without addition risks and problematic withdrawals". These claims are at direct odds with what is happening to me right now. You require customers to relinquish custody of their funds and decided to unilaterally  seize and confiscated them. There's nothing decentralized about that!

Bottom line is Sportbet.one how can anyone trust you?

[...]
Explain why you claim that customers funds are in their control yet you have the ability to seize and confiscate them.

If I may help answering this issue as I think I am quite familiar with this one, as I had a discussion about this topic once, they're referring about the web3 sign-in/sign-up [see image below], where you use your eos wallet as your ID and connect that wallet to their platform, thus accessing the fund directly from your wallet and they're not in custody of any fund.

They also offers "traditional" registration with email, of which you can deposit the fund to your account. Since your fund are in their custody, and for the lack of knowledge of this web-3 alternative registration, I assume you're having a traditional account one.

[...]
2. You violated all the rules from "GENERAL TERMS AND CONDITIONS" section 2 (highlighted in bold):

"The betting company reserves the right to revoke the concluded betting agreement (including the bets placed before and after the beginning of the event), refuse to fulfill its obligations under this agreement (including paying out the winnings), or refuse to return any placed bets, if:
- bets are made by a group of clients acting in a coalition to bypass the restrictions established by the betting company;
- the client is suspected of using any software that automates the process of setting bets;
- the client uses the game account to play in arbitration situations;
- the client abuses the loyalty programs."

[...]

Can you tell us what make you so sure and/or the proof that you have that OP coalited with someone or use software to gain advantages as you suspected him?

[RectangleRock]

If I may help answering this issue as I think I am quite familiar with this one, as I had a discussion about this topic once, they're referring about the web3 sign-in/sign-up [see image below], where you use your eos wallet as your ID and connect that wallet to their platform, thus accessing the fund directly from your wallet and they're not in custody of any fund.

They also offers "traditional" registration with email, of which you can deposit the fund to your account. Since your fund are in their custody, and for the lack of knowledge of this web-3 alternative registration, I assume you're having a traditional account one.

Interesting. I just signed up with an Eos wallet there to see how it works (ya.. now they can claim I multi-accounted). So had I done that from the start they wouldn't have been able to steal my funds?  Funny how they try to suck and blow at the same time "we'll confiscate your funds" coupled with "instant/self custody withdrawals"

They still have a lot of explaining to do when it comes providing proof I did something wrong, tried to circumvent limits or gained any other type of advantage. And I'd love to hear how they can stand by their absurd card counting claim.

[Rating Place]

[...]
Furthermore you go to significant lengths to sell your site on the fact that you have no custodial control over clients funds https://sportbet.one/OnePager.pdf  "money not kept on company's accounts, "we wont block your money..we dont even have it on the platform", "winnings are paid directly to your wallet", "bet without addition risks and problematic withdrawals". These claims are at direct odds with what is happening to me right now. You require customers to relinquish custody of their funds and decided to unilaterally  seize and confiscated them. There's nothing decentralized about that!

Bottom line is Sportbet.one how can anyone trust you?

[...]
Explain why you claim that customers funds are in their control yet you have the ability to seize and confiscate them.

If I may help answering this issue as I think I am quite familiar with this one, as I had a discussion about this topic once, they're referring about the web3 sign-in/sign-up [see image below], where you use your eos wallet as your ID and connect that wallet to their platform, thus accessing the fund directly from your wallet and they're not in custody of any fund.

They also offers "traditional" registration with email, of which you can deposit the fund to your account. Since your fund are in their custody, and for the lack of knowledge of this web-3 alternative registration, I assume you're having a traditional account one.

[...]
2. You violated all the rules from "GENERAL TERMS AND CONDITIONS" section 2 (highlighted in bold):

"The betting company reserves the right to revoke the concluded betting agreement (including the bets placed before and after the beginning of the event), refuse to fulfill its obligations under this agreement (including paying out the winnings), or refuse to return any placed bets, if:
- bets are made by a group of clients acting in a coalition to bypass the restrictions established by the betting company;
- the client is suspected of using any software that automates the process of setting bets;
- the client uses the game account to play in arbitration situations;
- the client abuses the loyalty programs."

[...]

Can you tell us what make you so sure and/or the proof that you have that OP coalited with someone or use software to gain advantages as you suspected him?

The variance of the OP's wagers show that he didn't have an advantage. If another person (partner) jumped in the table making substantially higher bets than the OP when the count was in their favor, then their could be collusion. But the total amount wagered adding together the OP and partner(s) would have to be much greater than what they OP was making before the count being in their favor.

[RectangleRock]

The variance of the OP's wagers show that he didn't have an advantage. If another person (partner) jumped in the table making substantially higher bets than the OP when the count was in their favor, then their could be collusion. But the total amount wagered adding together the OP and partner(s) would have to be much greater than what they OP was making before the count being in their favor.

Is it realistic that I signed up to play for 45 minutes and colluded with a partner? I think you could see in the hand history that the majority of the time I played completely alone, 2 hands at a time (Seats 6 and 7). Then other players came and went.  I'll leave it to someone else to go through the trouble to see if when other people were at the table how my stake size changed but there should be no correlation to that. Also this isnt a brick and mortar joint where you need to operate in teams, anyone could just lurk online and jump in when they want. The only systematic pattern I did was bet slightly more after a run of losses and slightly less after a run of wins.

[Rating Place]

The variance of the OP's wagers show that he didn't have an advantage. If another person (partner) jumped in the table making substantially higher bets than the OP when the count was in their favor, then their could be collusion. But the total amount wagered adding together the OP and partner(s) would have to be much greater than what they OP was making before the count being in their favor.

Is it realistic that I signed up to play for 45 minutes and colluded with a partner? I think you could see in the hand history that the majority of the time I played completely alone, 2 hands at a time (Seats 6 and 7). Then other players came and went.  I'll leave it to someone else to go through the trouble to see if when other people were at the table how my stake size changed but there should be no correlation to that. Also this isnt a brick and mortar joint where you need to operate in teams, anyone could just lurk online and jump in when they want. The only systematic pattern I did was bet slightly more after a run of losses and slightly less after a run of wins.

All someone needs to know is the size of the bets. If you are betting $2 a hand and then 3 people jump in all making max bets start playing and immediately quit after a shuffle, then there may be counting and team play.

[RectangleRock]

The variance of the OP's wagers show that he didn't have an advantage. If another person (partner) jumped in the table making substantially higher bets than the OP when the count was in their favor, then their could be collusion. But the total amount wagered adding together the OP and partner(s) would have to be much greater than what they OP was making before the count being in their favor.

Is it realistic that I signed up to play for 45 minutes and colluded with a partner? I think you could see in the hand history that the majority of the time I played completely alone, 2 hands at a time (Seats 6 and 7). Then other players came and went.  I'll leave it to someone else to go through the trouble to see if when other people were at the table how my stake size changed but there should be no correlation to that. Also this isnt a brick and mortar joint where you need to operate in teams, anyone could just lurk online and jump in when they want. The only systematic pattern I did was bet slightly more after a run of losses and slightly less after a run of wins.

All someone needs to know is the size of the bets. If you are betting $2 a hand and then 3 people jump in all making max bets start playing and immediately quit after a shuffle, then there may be counting and team play.

Ok, well my hand history is all there for anyone to evaluate if someone wants to check whether people coming and leaving the table was correlated to my bet sizes. I'll save you the trouble though, thats not what happened!!!

[Rating Place]

The variance of the OP's wagers show that he didn't have an advantage. If another person (partner) jumped in the table making substantially higher bets than the OP when the count was in their favor, then their could be collusion. But the total amount wagered adding together the OP and partner(s) would have to be much greater than what they OP was making before the count being in their favor.

Is it realistic that I signed up to play for 45 minutes and colluded with a partner? I think you could see in the hand history that the majority of the time I played completely alone, 2 hands at a time (Seats 6 and 7). Then other players came and went.  I'll leave it to someone else to go through the trouble to see if when other people were at the table how my stake size changed but there should be no correlation to that. Also this isnt a brick and mortar joint where you need to operate in teams, anyone could just lurk online and jump in when they want. The only systematic pattern I did was bet slightly more after a run of losses and slightly less after a run of wins.

All someone needs to know is the size of the bets. If you are betting $2 a hand and then 3 people jump in all making max bets start playing and immediately quit after a shuffle, then there may be counting and team play.

Ok, well my hand history is all there for anyone to evaluate if someone wants to check whether people coming and leaving the table was correlated to my bet sizes. I'll save you the trouble though, thats not what happened!!!

I was agreeing with you. I was just giving examples of how team play works.

[holydarkness]

If I may help answering this issue as I think I am quite familiar with this one, as I had a discussion about this topic once, they're referring about the web3 sign-in/sign-up [see image below], where you use your eos wallet as your ID and connect that wallet to their platform, thus accessing the fund directly from your wallet and they're not in custody of any fund.

They also offers "traditional" registration with email, of which you can deposit the fund to your account. Since your fund are in their custody, and for the lack of knowledge of this web-3 alternative registration, I assume you're having a traditional account one.

Interesting. I just signed up with an Eos wallet there to see how it works (ya.. now they can claim I multi-accounted). So had I done that from the start they wouldn't have been able to steal my funds?  Funny how they try to suck and blow at the same time "we'll confiscate your funds" coupled with "instant/self custody withdrawals"

They still have a lot of explaining to do when it comes providing proof I did something wrong, tried to circumvent limits or gained any other type of advantage. And I'd love to hear how they can stand by their absurd card counting claim.

Theoretically and how it is intended to work, yes. If a user signed up through web3, it should works in the principle of connecting your wallet to their platform, like connecting your wallet to a swap process, if you may. The funds are directly come from and sent to your wallet, the casino didn't have control of your fund.