SEC vs Coinbase

[zasad@]

https://financefeeds.com/coinbase-could-lose-30-of-its-revenue-this-week/
COINBASE COULD LOSE 30% OF ITS REVENUE THIS WEEK

____
Where did the story begin?
SEC Charges Coinbase for Operating as an Unregistered Securities Exchange, Broker, and Clearing Agency
https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2023-102

This is a very interesting case that most likely will not end this year.
On the one hand, Coinbase’s position is supported by the Ripple case, but the fact of staking works on the SEC’s side, thanks to the Terra Luna case.
Coinbase is backed by Blackrock and the best lawyers in the world. The battle will be very interesting.

___
"I always want to be factual and correct in my reporting so am putting out a correction/clarification here. Some have pointed out that I may have missed the context in how Failla said this and that she was actually paraphrasing Lummis’s position on the 90 years of securities laws instead of giving her own position. Apologies for confusion, context may have gotten lost in the rush to get the words down.

However, Failla has certainly cast doubt on SEC arguments and the fact that she’s bringing up Lummis’s brief in such detail and asking the SEC to address it directly is notable."
https://twitter.com/EleanorTerrett/status/1747675944821641695


___
Chief Legal Officer @coinbase
https://twitter.com/iampaulgrewal

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[bbc.reporter]

@zasad@. There are conflicting arguments on this. There are some experts who speculate that the case will be dimissed because Coinbase has a higher chance of winning this. Also, similar to what you have mentioned, Coinbase is an investor in Coinbase. They will use the politicians in their pockets that jingle like coins against uncle Gary.

On the other side of the argument and if there is a trial by jury on 2025, it appears that this will become a storyline that would cause volatility on the market hehehee.



Judge Failla could decide to dismiss the case, experts say. Bloomberg Intelligence senior litigation analyst Elliott Stein put the chances of Coinbase beating the SEC at 70 percent in a post last week.

"Our Thesis: Coinbase is 70% likely to beat the SEC, if not outright on this motion, then later," Stein wrote. "Even if the case survives, it likely reaches the Supreme Court, which we think will narrow Howey," Stein wrote, referring to test that's based on a 1946 U.S. Supreme Court case the SEC often cites in determining whether or not an asset is a security.

Others say the case will go on, and if the judge denies Coinbase's motion, then it would go onto discovery. At the end of discovery, both the SEC and Coinbase could bring a motion for summary judgment. If the judge isn't convinced, then it would proceed to trial and be presented to a jury, but that wouldn't likely happen until 2025.

Source https://www.theblock.co/post/274703/will-a-judge-dismiss-the-secs-case-against-coinbase-experts-have-differing-views

[zasad@]

@zasad@. There are conflicting arguments on this. There are some experts who speculate that the case will be dimissed because Coinbase has a higher chance of winning this. Also, similar to what you have mentioned, Coinbase is an investor in Coinbase. They will use the politicians in their pockets that jingle like coins against uncle Gary.

On the other side of the argument and if there is a trial by jury on 2025, it appears that this will become a storyline that would cause volatility on the market hehehee.



Judge Failla could decide to dismiss the case, experts say. Bloomberg Intelligence senior litigation analyst Elliott Stein put the chances of Coinbase beating the SEC at 70 percent in a post last week.

"Our Thesis: Coinbase is 70% likely to beat the SEC, if not outright on this motion, then later," Stein wrote. "Even if the case survives, it likely reaches the Supreme Court, which we think will narrow Howey," Stein wrote, referring to test that's based on a 1946 U.S. Supreme Court case the SEC often cites in determining whether or not an asset is a security.

Others say the case will go on, and if the judge denies Coinbase's motion, then it would go onto discovery. At the end of discovery, both the SEC and Coinbase could bring a motion for summary judgment. If the judge isn't convinced, then it would proceed to trial and be presented to a jury, but that wouldn't likely happen until 2025.

Source https://www.theblock.co/post/274703/will-a-judge-dismiss-the-secs-case-against-coinbase-experts-have-differing-views

I don't think Coinbase will win on all charges, but paying a small fine would be a very big win for them.
This year the SEC must also punish some projects that violated US law, which I wrote about here
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5480233
After the elections, the head of the SEC and the policy may change, so in 2024 everything will continue in the same direction.

[bbc.reporter]

@zasad@. I agree on Coinbase not winning on all charges, however, I disagree on a policy change on the cryptospace by the SEC after US elections. There might be some changes if Trump gets the victory because everything he did during his term was express his dislike for crypto but his administration has never done any strict regulatory against this. However, if a Democrat will win, I reckon what we are presently witnessing might only be the beginning.

[tread93]

Well if we have learned anything is that if the SEC is placing regulations on a front runner in any given industry it is GOOD for that frontrunner, despite how this may look if they do lose, they will surely come back and these regulations will be tailored and more poised to their strengths as the SEC probably has a special deal with COIN anyhow and is raking in cash on the back end, perhaps?

[zasad@]

@zasad@. I agree on Coinbase not winning on all charges, however, I disagree on a policy change on the cryptospace by the SEC after US elections. There might be some changes if Trump gets the victory because everything he did during his term was express his dislike for crypto but his administration has never done any strict regulatory against this. However, if a Democrat will win, I reckon what we are presently witnessing might only be the beginning.

The United States has accumulated a lot of internal political and economic problems, and I don’t think that the new president will have much time to spend on cryptocurrencies.
I wrote with reference to world sources that the economies of many countries are large bubbles, when agriculture and manufacturing occupy no more than 30% of GDP, and the rest consists of financial speculation.With such financial debt, the United States cannot be present in all the hot spots of the world to control order, and therefore Trump will set the main goal of increasing production in his country.

[pakhitheboss]

The United States has accumulated a lot of internal political and economic problems, and I don’t think that the new president will have much time to spend on cryptocurrencies.
I wrote with reference to world sources that the economies of many countries are large bubbles, when agriculture and manufacturing occupy no more than 30% of GDP, and the rest consists of financial speculation.With such financial debt, the United States cannot be present in all the hot spots of the world to control order, and therefore Trump will set the main goal of increasing production in his country.

The US already has a debt that is breaking all previous records, they are fighting a two-front war and a few proxy wars. The economic situation of the US is not just bad but it has gotten worse after Joe Biden came to power. In all probabilities, he would be replaced by Trump who has many issues to take care and he won't be looking into small problems like the one you stated.

In regards to the conflict between the SEC and Coinbase, I feel that the SEC is trying to bully most crypto exchanges operating on their turf. What Coinbase did was to reply to SEC in the same way as it did to them. I do not know what will be the verdict but I feel SEC never expected Coinbase to reply. They thought they would bully get a good amount of fine and then again start next year. Look how Binance is now dealing with its issue, they are paying whatever the SEC is asking without any question. Kraken did the same thing and last year if I am correct they again paid the SEC a big amount as a fine. It is looking more like an extortion racket rather than a regulation issue with the SEC.

[bbc.reporter]

@zasad@. I agree on Coinbase not winning on all charges, however, I disagree on a policy change on the cryptospace by the SEC after US elections. There might be some changes if Trump gets the victory because everything he did during his term was express his dislike for crypto but his administration has never done any strict regulatory against this. However, if a Democrat will win, I reckon what we are presently witnessing might only be the beginning.

The United States has accumulated a lot of internal political and economic problems, and I don’t think that the new president will have much time to spend on cryptocurrencies.
I wrote with reference to world sources that the economies of many countries are large bubbles, when agriculture and manufacturing occupy no more than 30% of GDP, and the rest consists of financial speculation.With such financial debt, the United States cannot be present in all the hot spots of the world to control order, and therefore Trump will set the main goal of increasing production in his country.

I disagree. Governments always make good use of the fud they create in the cryptospace to fund their own campaigns. Do you think Elizabeth Warren and her friends in the senate will stop? I am very much certain they will not.

However, if they really want good governance, I agree with you. They should fix the internal problems that have accumulated for many years. But there are politicians who might have stopped feeling concerned on what is happening in the political system and they only want to create as much wealth as they can before retirement. One of these politicians is Nancy Pelosi.

[zasad@]

@zasad@. I agree on Coinbase not winning on all charges, however, I disagree on a policy change on the cryptospace by the SEC after US elections. There might be some changes if Trump gets the victory because everything he did during his term was express his dislike for crypto but his administration has never done any strict regulatory against this. However, if a Democrat will win, I reckon what we are presently witnessing might only be the beginning.

The United States has accumulated a lot of internal political and economic problems, and I don’t think that the new president will have much time to spend on cryptocurrencies.
I wrote with reference to world sources that the economies of many countries are large bubbles, when agriculture and manufacturing occupy no more than 30% of GDP, and the rest consists of financial speculation.With such financial debt, the United States cannot be present in all the hot spots of the world to control order, and therefore Trump will set the main goal of increasing production in his country.

I disagree. Governments always make good use of the fud they create in the cryptospace to fund their own campaigns. Do you think Elizabeth Warren and her friends in the senate will stop? I am very much certain they will not.

However, if they really want good governance, I agree with you. They should fix the internal problems that have accumulated for many years. But there are politicians who might have stopped feeling concerned on what is happening in the political system and they only want to create as much wealth as they can before retirement. One of these politicians is Nancy Pelosi.

Why the fuss in the USA in Texas?
I watched several American bloggers who travel along the border and show that in many places the border is open and you can cross it without problems. This is all beneficial to Trump, who will solve a fictitious problem.

As for politics, in every country there are global elites who support world bankers and local elites who want it to be safe and profitable to do business in their country.

[bbc.reporter]

@zasad@. Hehehe it is not fuss and the border crossers are not a ficticious problem. Border crossers have presently been increasing and the Mexican cartel has created a business out of this. The latest news updates from the border in Texas is the patrols there are being overwhelmed. Also, the crossers are living in America without paying taxes and at the expense of the tax payers.

[zasad@]

@zasad@. Hehehe it is not fuss and the border crossers are not a ficticious problem. Border crossers have presently been increasing and the Mexican cartel has created a business out of this. The latest news updates from the border in Texas is the patrols there are being overwhelmed. Also, the crossers are living in America without paying taxes and at the expense of the tax payers.

The huge migration in the USA is not a problem, but a consequence of the fact that in the USA, for the same work, a driver or a builder and other workers are paid 10 times or more. The United States has a huge Army and military budget and they can easily solve the problem with the leaky border, but apparently they don’t want to do this before the presidential election.

[bbc.reporter]

@zasad@. I very much disagree. In the present condition of their economy, with their debt and high spending, their tax payers certainly cannot support the illegal migrants that are entering their jurisdiction. The government does not have the budget and they cannot increase more taxes on the people because it will force more financial pressure on them and it is also an election year hehehe. The Democrats do not want the voters to have much hate on them.

[zasad@]

@zasad@. I very much disagree. In the present condition of their economy, with their debt and high spending, their tax payers certainly cannot support the illegal migrants that are entering their jurisdiction. The government does not have the budget and they cannot increase more taxes on the people because it will force more financial pressure on them and it is also an election year hehehe. The Democrats do not want the voters to have much hate on them.

The United States has about 1,000 military bases around the world about which there is open information, and many more secret military bases about which there is no information in open sources.
The United States has money for these expenses, but there is no money to close the holes in the Mexican border.
Maybe Americans don’t want to work as drivers, construction workers, and similar professions, and the government is filling this need with Mexicans.

[zasad@]

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67478179/104/securities-and-exchange-commission-v-coinbase-inc/
"We write to provide further information not included in Plaintiff Securities and Exchange
Commission’s (“SEC”) Notice of Supplemental Authority, ECF No. 103, relevant to the default
judgment entered by the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Washington on the SEC’s
unopposed motion in SEC v. Wahi.
In July 2022, the SEC filed suit against Ishan and Nikhil Wahi, a 32-year old former
Coinbase employee and his brother, and Ishan’s college friend, Sameer Ramani. See SEC v.
Wahi, No. 2:22-cv-01009-TL, ECF No. 1 (W.D. Wash. July 21, 2022) (Wahi). The complaint
alleged securities fraud based on defendants’ theft of Coinbase’s confidential information and
front-running of purchases of nine digital assets, none of which are at issue in the SEC’s
complaint in this matter. The SEC did not include as parties any issuers, exchanges, or other
crypto industry participants in that action. Id.
On February 6, 2023, defendants Ishan and Nikhil Wahi moved to dismiss the complaint,
including on the basis that the tokens were “not ‘investment contracts’” and that the SEC thus
had exceeded its statutory authority. Wahi, ECF No. 33. Coinbase and several other industry
participants filed briefs in support of the Wahi brothers’ motion. See Wahi, ECF Nos. 92, 94, 97,
101, 104. That motion was never decided because just weeks later, on June 1, 2023, the SEC
terminated the action against the Wahi brothers in a zero-dollar, no-admit-no-deny settlement."

___
Again, conflicts appear on the topic of what securities are.

[safar1980]

Coinbase Accuses U.S. SEC of Breaking the Law in Rejecting Crypto Rulemaking
U.S. crypto exchange Coinbase has filed an action against the Securities and Exchange Commission, accusing the agency of behaving arbitrarily and capriciously in its refusal to tailor rules to clarify oversight of the industry.
This case is a response to the SEC's denial of the company's formal petition for rulemaking, again putting an important question for the future of crypto regulation before the courts.

[bbc.reporter]

News update.

According to this mainstream news media outlet, the SEC scored a big win. This is headshaking because if the SEC is going to lose in court, we can be quite certain that it will set another precedent and they will never do this regulation through enforcement again. This is not a victory for the SEC, this is certainly more pressure.



The Securities and Exchange Commission scored a major win in its lawsuit against Coinbase
 on Wednesday, as a judge ruled that its claim that the cryptocurrency exchange engaged in unregistered sales of securities could be heard by a jury at trial.

Coinbase’s shares fell around 2.5% on news of the ruling in Manhattan federal court rejecting its bid to dismiss the SEC’s complaint.

Source https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/27/sec-scores-big-win-in-lawsuit-against-crypto-exchange-coinbase.html

[zasad@]

bbc.reporter, Why are you making fun of Gary Gensler like that?
If we look at practice adequately, then it is the SEC that brings a lot of money to the US budget thanks to huge fines. That's why SEC is the Boss

Perhaps Coinbase will enter into a favorable agreement and pay a fine, which will suit all parties. But this exchange is already seriously integrated into Business in the USA.

[bbc.reporter]

@zasad@. It will always end with a favorable agreement, however, I predict that it will be a more favorable agreement for Coinbase hehehe. A very much similar occurrence when uncle Gary was in tears when he was forced on signing for the approval of the spot ETF for bitcoin.

Blackrock was the biggest ETF pusher before the approval and on Coinbase, Blackrock is one of the shareholders of this exchange. Uncle Gary will be the loser again because of the new mayor of bitcoin.


Larry Fink, new mayor of bitcoin

[zasad@]

bbc.reporter, I agree that for Coinbase any agreement will be beneficial because they will get official permission to "haircut" hamsters in one of the richest countries in the world. A lot of crypto companies have either closed down or fled the US because it is very difficult to work with such laws.
But Gary Gensler still has a lot of work to do..

[bbc.reporter]

@zasad@. Uncle Gary cannot do anything to ban the whole cryptospace within the American jurisdiction. He approved Bitcoin's spot ETF with painful tears in his eyes. The second signal that he is not in control is his approval on Ethereum's spot ETF with again painful tears coming out of his eyes hehehehee. Uncle Gary might delay the approval, however, he will approve this.

It will be 100% not 25%.



According to Bloomberg senior ETF analyst Eric Balchunas, there is only a 25% chance that the SEC approves a spot ethereum ETF. He points to the lack of SEC engagement on the topic and the absence of any positive signs or chatter on the subject, which is a departure from the lead-up to bitcoin’s approval. Balchunas believes this lack of engagement is ‘tactical’ rather than ‘procrastination’.

Source https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/slim-chances-of-ethereum-etf-approval