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Author Topic: Patience can help alot  (Read 3774 times)
Fredomago
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June 16, 2024, 11:26:08 PM
 #541

They can't be patience in gambling once they lose streak and they just thinks to gets their money back which can makes them lose more money. Have a patient in gambling is necessary to control their minds not to playing gambling excessively because of their losses. They must keeps their control in a good position so they can enjoy the gambling games as an entertainment and not chase the wins.
When someone has experienced consecutive losses at gambling, of course they will have difficulty controlling themselves when gambling and if they don't want to lose again when betting, it would be better to stop for a while until their condition is really good and then return to doing it. gambling and choosing to consider gambling as entertainment, of course we will get many benefits and we will be able to know the right time to gamble and stop gambling.

Exactly, there's certain amount of losses one will make in gambling that will definitely lead to one losing his cool, not being able to think straight or properly , leading them to make rash decision that they will later regret at the end, because as humans when one emotions has began to overwhelm us we don't longer think properly again expecially when it comes to gambling or trading. Because anytime we experience losses, it always lead to us having some behavioural changes . Either anger or sadness so when one is feeling such is better to just stop for a while to clear his mind .

Yup, it's better to stop and pause for a while when suffering in that situation you'll be able to perform how good your patienec when you manage to stop instead of pushing forward, just like what you just mentioned, it's your adrenaline rush that you needed to control most of the time that kind of feelings leads you to lose more.

It's true that not only in gambling also in trading or any other business if you quickly decide something then you find yourself risking your investment.

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June 17, 2024, 01:46:32 AM
 #542

When someone has experienced consecutive losses at gambling, of course they will have difficulty controlling themselves when gambling and if they don't want to lose again when betting, it would be better to stop for a while until their condition is really good and then return to doing it. gambling and choosing to consider gambling as entertainment, of course we will get many benefits and we will be able to know the right time to gamble and stop gambling.

Exactly, there's certain amount of losses one will make in gambling that will definitely lead to one losing his cool, not being able to think straight or properly , leading them to make rash decision that they will later regret at the end, because as humans when one emotions has began to overwhelm us we don't longer think properly again expecially when it comes to gambling or trading. Because anytime we experience losses, it always lead to us having some behavioural changes . Either anger or sadness so when one is feeling such is better to just stop for a while to clear his mind .

Yup, it's better to stop and pause for a while when suffering in that situation you'll be able to perform how good your patienec when you manage to stop instead of pushing forward, just like what you just mentioned, it's your adrenaline rush that you needed to control most of the time that kind of feelings leads you to lose more.

It's true that not only in gambling also in trading or any other business if you quickly decide something then you find yourself risking your investment.
It's a good idea to stop for a while to calm down from the turmoil of ambition and adrenaline in gambling because it can have a bad impact if it continues, not a few people who lose more money and time because they are driven by their own adrenaline with their feelings, if we have more patience with good self-control it will give us peace so that we can anticipate the big losses that might come if we don't stop.

Patience can be used anywhere and is very useful in any aspect so it is very necessary, but when talking about decisions there may be some that must be done in a hurry and without thinking about patience, such as urgent problems that require very fast action, but overall patience is a big key in a process, especially in gambling, business, learning, and others that require a process.

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June 17, 2024, 02:49:44 AM
 #543

Patience is a key skill in all risk-taking activities where there is a reasonable strategy. The fact is that even if you have an excellent strategy, this does not guarantee you a win. This is true, for example, for poker. You can stick to the right strategy and lose. And even lose for some time. Conversely, you can play with no strategy at all or with a bad strategy and (accidentally) win.
 A good strategy begins to produce positive results over the long term. But in order to wait for these results, you really need to have patience.

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June 17, 2024, 04:46:34 AM
 #544

Patience is a key skill in all risk-taking activities where there is a reasonable strategy. The fact is that even if you have an excellent strategy, this does not guarantee you a win. This is true, for example, for poker. You can stick to the right strategy and lose. And even lose for some time. Conversely, you can play with no strategy at all or with a bad strategy and (accidentally) win.
 A good strategy begins to produce positive results over the long term. But in order to wait for these results, you really need to have patience.

I agree with you about poker and patience. At the same time, I will add that it is good when, with patience, a gambler also has a huge deposit. It helps a lot in poker type games. After all, I think you already know that such a deposit helps to pressure opponents sitting at the same table. Also, a large deposit helps to get more games, which means completely eliminating the luck factor in the results of all your games. Unfortunately, there is one problem: many poker players do not understand - they lose because they play poorly, or because they are just unlucky. And if the former, then it's better to stop making a deposit.

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June 17, 2024, 05:08:02 AM
 #545

Patience is a key skill in all risk-taking activities where there is a reasonable strategy. The fact is that even if you have an excellent strategy, this does not guarantee you a win. This is true, for example, for poker. You can stick to the right strategy and lose. And even lose for some time. Conversely, you can play with no strategy at all or with a bad strategy and (accidentally) win.
 A good strategy begins to produce positive results over the long term. But in order to wait for these results, you really need to have patience.

Very good opinion and I agree with you indeed patience is the key to success or success if someone can maintain and do that patience well then the activities that will be carried out will likely produce maximum results because it has been planned well in good conditions and situations.
Moreover, if it is connected to gambling, patience is a tool to control behavior and actions in gambling so that the results are not too burdensome and make ourselves regret it.
With the patience possessed by a gambler, of course the gambler will not play excessively and greedily in pursuing victory.

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June 17, 2024, 05:11:28 AM
 #546

Exactly, there's certain amount of losses one will make in gambling that will definitely lead to one losing his cool, not being able to think straight or properly , leading them to make rash decision that they will later regret at the end, because as humans when one emotions has began to overwhelm us we don't longer think properly again expecially when it comes to gambling or trading. Because anytime we experience losses, it always lead to us having some behavioural changes . Either anger or sadness so when one is feeling such is better to just stop for a while to clear his mind .

There're multiple reasons why most gamblers are not patient enough to wait until the game is over before withdrawal. Sport gambling is one of the reasons due to how it's being played and the intriguing aspect of the game which occurs most often is the challenge of change in thoughts. Gamblers always get curious towards the end of the game. And they'll make mistakes along the line, yet they forget football can change at any minute. People are faced with the fear of an ending minute goal. Which is quite true. A gambler who have not been prepared to wait for the game to end will definitely take out his money, and most of them regret this. But, it's all a game, not something to bother about, except for the money the gambler has missed. If money wasn't involved people wouldn't have been bothered over their gambling mistakes.

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June 17, 2024, 05:43:33 AM
 #547

Yup, it's better to stop and pause for a while when suffering in that situation you'll be able to perform how good your patienec when you manage to stop instead of pushing forward, just like what you just mentioned, it's your adrenaline rush that you needed to control most of the time that kind of feelings leads you to lose more.
And treat that as an achievement when you finally able to stop for a while because not everyone is going to that point of their lives that they help themselves to stop. Patience becomes somehow a life skills that everyone doesn't have but everyone does need to have.

It's true that not only in gambling also in trading or any other business if you quickly decide something then you find yourself risking your investment.
You're reckless if you do that. You don't do that if it's involving your money. But well, somehow in gambling who doesn't do that? most of us are hasty and we all want to do these because it seems that the phasing in gambling is so quick. Anyway, if you're into trading, it's utterly different though if you're going to discuss mostly about gambling, we want to be quick on it as that's the definition of how money goes in there. Still, do practice everything with patience so that you won't get bankrupt in a span of minutes if you're into quick phase games.

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June 17, 2024, 06:08:24 AM
 #548

Patience is a key skill in all risk-taking activities where there is a reasonable strategy. The fact is that even if you have an excellent strategy, this does not guarantee you a win. This is true, for example, for poker. You can stick to the right strategy and lose. And even lose for some time. Conversely, you can play with no strategy at all or with a bad strategy and (accidentally) win.
 A good strategy begins to produce positive results over the long term. But in order to wait for these results, you really need to have patience.
Yes, I often do this, why playing gambling like poker requires patience and a little bluffing when playing poker with other players, sometimes you also need to use a strategy like this to win, but still all gambling that is played requires patience before betting, at least think about analyzing that everything is safe. When betting, gamblers who are more patient will usually gamble longer because they are not in too much of a rush to bet and they are people who are less prone to taking many risks.

Even though every type of gambling has risks, the key is still patience within yourself, how to control yourself calmly without following your emotions and curiosity, gambling requires patience and that is always needed, even if all gamblers cannot be patient, they will usually easily become addicted to gambling. and cannot control himself properly because he will easily get carried away and continue gambling until he loses a lot of money or goes bankrupt. Patience can help gamblers to recognize limits because these limits will protect themselves from greedy and careless behavior.

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Bravut
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June 17, 2024, 10:11:41 AM
 #549

Patience is a key skill in all risk-taking activities where there is a reasonable strategy. The fact is that even if you have an excellent strategy, this does not guarantee you a win. This is true, for example, for poker. You can stick to the right strategy and lose. And even lose for some time. Conversely, you can play with no strategy at all or with a bad strategy and (accidentally) win.
 A good strategy begins to produce positive results over the long term. But in order to wait for these results, you really need to have patience.
Yes, I often do this, why playing gambling like poker requires patience and a little bluffing when playing poker with other players, sometimes you also need to use a strategy like this to win, but still all gambling that is played requires patience before betting, at least think about analyzing that everything is safe. When betting, gamblers who are more patient will usually gamble longer because they are not in too much of a rush to bet and they are people who are less prone to taking many risks.

Even though every type of gambling has risks, the key is still patience within yourself, how to control yourself calmly without following your emotions and curiosity, gambling requires patience and that is always needed, even if all gamblers cannot be patient, they will usually easily become addicted to gambling. and cannot control himself properly because he will easily get carried away and continue gambling until he loses a lot of money or goes bankrupt. Patience can help gamblers to recognize limits because these limits will protect themselves from greedy and careless behavior.

True. Patience can save Gamblers from unnecessary losses, help them have power and control over there gambling habits. Patience is what some Gamblers lack, the sole reason why they often regret about not winning a certain game, because of impatience and breaking there rules while gambling. Gamblers need to have patience which will sharpen them to strike when the right time comes not jumping in and out, giving room to emotions.
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June 17, 2024, 10:40:28 AM
 #550

When someone has experienced consecutive losses at gambling, of course they will have difficulty controlling themselves when gambling and if they don't want to lose again when betting, it would be better to stop for a while until their condition is really good and then return to doing it. gambling and choosing to consider gambling as entertainment, of course we will get many benefits and we will be able to know the right time to gamble and stop gambling.
If they can stops playing gambling immediately after experienced consecutive losses, that will helps them to reduce the big lose. But many gamblers still doesn't realizes that they must stops gambling after lose and keeps playing gambling because they thinks that they have a chance to wins and recovers their lose. That's not wrong but they must be wise to see their situation, especially if they already lose much money before.

They can back to playing gambling for other days and reduce their tension after losing their money and that will be better for them because they can manage their emotion not to becomes higher. They must realizes that gambling is an entertainment and not to spends more money after lose. If they can realizes the situation, they will stops gambling immediately and will leave the casino because they don't wants to see more losses.

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June 17, 2024, 11:43:34 AM
 #551

Yes, I often do this, why playing gambling like poker requires patience and a little bluffing when playing poker with other players, sometimes you also need to use a strategy like this to win, but still all gambling that is played requires patience before betting, at least think about analyzing that everything is safe. When betting, gamblers who are more patient will usually gamble longer because they are not in too much of a rush to bet and they are people who are less prone to taking many risks.

Even though every type of gambling has risks, the key is still patience within yourself, how to control yourself calmly without following your emotions and curiosity, gambling requires patience and that is always needed, even if all gamblers cannot be patient, they will usually easily become addicted to gambling. and cannot control himself properly because he will easily get carried away and continue gambling until he loses a lot of money or goes bankrupt. Patience can help gamblers to recognize limits because these limits will protect themselves from greedy and careless behavior.

Indeed, people who gamble with sufficient patience will of course not take actions that pose a big risk. With the patience they have, of course they can consider all the actions they will take and of course the actions they will decide and carry out are good and can be considered first. first so that you don't regret it in the end, also by considering the actions taken, of course, to anticipate that bad things don't happen when you have done those actions, but there are not many gamblers like this because with the many cases that occur regarding the bad effects of gambling, of course it is because they don't can gamble with good patience, they tend to follow their ego and emotions.

I agree with what you say, indeed gambling is a risky thing, and the risks cannot be avoided unless we do it well and correctly. The key to gambling is patience because with patience, of course we can control ourselves with everything we do. Indeed, many people are addicted to gambling because they gamble excessively and of course this means they don't have good patience in gambling, which ultimately makes them addicted to gambling and it is difficult to get out of it.

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June 17, 2024, 12:22:21 PM
 #552

Patience is a key skill in all risk-taking activities where there is a reasonable strategy. The fact is that even if you have an excellent strategy, this does not guarantee you a win. This is true, for example, for poker. You can stick to the right strategy and lose. And even lose for some time. Conversely, you can play with no strategy at all or with a bad strategy and (accidentally) win.
 A good strategy begins to produce positive results over the long term. But in order to wait for these results, you really need to have patience.

I agree with you about poker and patience. At the same time, I will add that it is good when, with patience, a gambler also has a huge deposit. It helps a lot in poker type games. After all, I think you already know that such a deposit helps to pressure opponents sitting at the same table. Also, a large deposit helps to get more games, which means completely eliminating the luck factor in the results of all your games. Unfortunately, there is one problem: many poker players do not understand - they lose because they play poorly, or because they are just unlucky. And if the former, then it's better to stop making a deposit.
Of course, it will always be better to have deep pockets. It enhances your chances to get back what you lost in casino games while in poker you can dominate everyone by using the power of money.
To pressure them, yes that's also one good reason to have lots of money on your table. That way they could not think straight and their decision-making would be clouded by emotions.
But those who have deep pockets should also be careful because sometimes they get too greedy and always join the battle. Because their mindset is they have more to spare, they tend to be an offensive player and unable to analyze the game properly. It's not different when we are winning in a casino game. Our thoughts are filled with the mindset of having a lot in our wallet when the truth is it could be taken away in an instant.

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June 17, 2024, 12:57:21 PM
 #553

Yes, I often do this, why playing gambling like poker requires patience and a little bluffing when playing poker with other players, sometimes you also need to use a strategy like this to win, but still all gambling that is played requires patience before betting, at least think about analyzing that everything is safe. When betting, gamblers who are more patient will usually gamble longer because they are not in too much of a rush to bet and they are people who are less prone to taking many risks.

Even though every type of gambling has risks, the key is still patience within yourself, how to control yourself calmly without following your emotions and curiosity, gambling requires patience and that is always needed, even if all gamblers cannot be patient, they will usually easily become addicted to gambling. and cannot control himself properly because he will easily get carried away and continue gambling until he loses a lot of money or goes bankrupt. Patience can help gamblers to recognize limits because these limits will protect themselves from greedy and careless behavior.

Indeed, people who gamble with sufficient patience will of course not take actions that pose a big risk. With the patience they have, of course they can consider all the actions they will take and of course the actions they will decide and carry out are good and can be considered first. first so that you don't regret it in the end, also by considering the actions taken, of course, to anticipate that bad things don't happen when you have done those actions, but there are not many gamblers like this because with the many cases that occur regarding the bad effects of gambling, of course it is because they don't can gamble with good patience, they tend to follow their ego and emotions.

I agree with what you say, indeed gambling is a risky thing, and the risks cannot be avoided unless we do it well and correctly. The key to gambling is patience because with patience, of course we can control ourselves with everything we do. Indeed, many people are addicted to gambling because they gamble excessively and of course this means they don't have good patience in gambling, which ultimately makes them addicted to gambling and it is difficult to get out of it.
Patience is your edge, not only a virtue. Most people are not able to manage it. They lose sight of the game and get lost in the adrenaline. They end broke, pursue loses, and make stupid mistakes. but you? You really ought to be smarter. You have to be calm. You have to think like a winner. Gambling is meant to cause you to lose control. It appeals to your emotions rather than your reason.

You must thus battle that. You have to be cool, keep focused, and make smart choices. That is the only approach to reduce risks. You can only win that way. Knowledge is power. You will be more suited to fight the attractions of gambling the more you know about its nature.

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June 17, 2024, 01:51:32 PM
 #554

Patience is a key skill in all risk-taking activities where there is a reasonable strategy. The fact is that even if you have an excellent strategy, this does not guarantee you a win. This is true, for example, for poker. You can stick to the right strategy and lose. And even lose for some time. Conversely, you can play with no strategy at all or with a bad strategy and (accidentally) win.
 A good strategy begins to produce positive results over the long term. But in order to wait for these results, you really need to have patience.

I agree with you about poker and patience. At the same time, I will add that it is good when, with patience, a gambler also has a huge deposit. It helps a lot in poker type games. After all, I think you already know that such a deposit helps to pressure opponents sitting at the same table. Also, a large deposit helps to get more games, which means completely eliminating the luck factor in the results of all your games. Unfortunately, there is one problem: many poker players do not understand - they lose because they play poorly, or because they are just unlucky. And if the former, then it's better to stop making a deposit.
Of course, it will always be better to have deep pockets. It enhances your chances to get back what you lost in casino games while in poker you can dominate everyone by using the power of money.
To pressure them, yes that's also one good reason to have lots of money on your table. That way they could not think straight and their decision-making would be clouded by emotions.
But those who have deep pockets should also be careful because sometimes they get too greedy and always join the battle. Because their mindset is they have more to spare, they tend to be an offensive player and unable to analyze the game properly. It's not different when we are winning in a casino game. Our thoughts are filled with the mindset of having a lot in our wallet when the truth is it could be taken away in an instant.

Yup, and with good strategy that edge can be use most of the time, though it's also needs patience as even how deep your bankroll if you don't have that right patience there's a big chance that you might risking too much, I like that idea with strategy game like poker especially if you are playing against different people on the table, with that decent amount of capital/bankroll you can put pressures with those people who are in the table, just have enough skills and good insight with the game then it's all good who knows luck will also show up after some sessions.

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June 17, 2024, 02:15:55 PM
 #555

Patience is a key skill in all risk-taking activities where there is a reasonable strategy. The fact is that even if you have an excellent strategy, this does not guarantee you a win. This is true, for example, for poker. You can stick to the right strategy and lose. And even lose for some time. Conversely, you can play with no strategy at all or with a bad strategy and (accidentally) win.
 A good strategy begins to produce positive results over the long term. But in order to wait for these results, you really need to have patience.

I agree with you about poker and patience. At the same time, I will add that it is good when, with patience, a gambler also has a huge deposit. It helps a lot in poker type games. After all, I think you already know that such a deposit helps to pressure opponents sitting at the same table. Also, a large deposit helps to get more games, which means completely eliminating the luck factor in the results of all your games. Unfortunately, there is one problem: many poker players do not understand - they lose because they play poorly, or because they are just unlucky. And if the former, then it's better to stop making a deposit.

Maybe so, but players with a huge pot at the table are very relaxed. They think they control the game. We all know that they often play aggressively, and the big bank allows them to do so.
But I think that such a person is easier to "read" and understand his psychological profile. Thus, if a player with a medium or small pot can do this, then he will understand that the poker player is sitting opposite them at the same table. And he can win it! Especially if luck is on his side that day. I myself have defeated players with a large deposit several times.

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June 17, 2024, 03:37:40 PM
 #556

When someone has experienced consecutive losses at gambling, of course they will have difficulty controlling themselves when gambling and if they don't want to lose again when betting, it would be better to stop for a while until their condition is really good and then return to doing it. gambling and choosing to consider gambling as entertainment, of course we will get many benefits and we will be able to know the right time to gamble and stop gambling.
If they can stops playing gambling immediately after experienced consecutive losses, that will helps them to reduce the big lose. But many gamblers still doesn't realizes that they must stops gambling after lose and keeps playing gambling because they thinks that they have a chance to wins and recovers their lose. That's not wrong but they must be wise to see their situation, especially if they already lose much money before.

They can back to playing gambling for other days and reduce their tension after losing their money and that will be better for them because they can manage their emotion not to becomes higher. They must realizes that gambling is an entertainment and not to spends more money after lose. If they can realizes the situation, they will stops gambling immediately and will leave the casino because they don't wants to see more losses.
Although it's wise advise to stop following a loss, this is more difficult. Our brains are programmed to find patterns and believe in luck, hence it is easy to imagine that the next win is just around here. Still, gambling is on arithmetic and probability rather than luck.

Imagine coin flip. The chances of earning heads on the next flip remain 50/50 even if you receive tails ten times in a succession. It's the same with gambling. Every bet is independent of the last; past losses cannot guarantee future gains. One should be reasonable regarding the chances and avoid let emotions distort their judgment. Setting limits, following them, and realizing that losses are inevitable of the game define responsible gambling.

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June 17, 2024, 03:49:41 PM
 #557

When someone has experienced consecutive losses at gambling, of course they will have difficulty controlling themselves when gambling and if they don't want to lose again when betting, it would be better to stop for a while until their condition is really good and then return to doing it. gambling and choosing to consider gambling as entertainment, of course we will get many benefits and we will be able to know the right time to gamble and stop gambling.
If they can stops playing gambling immediately after experienced consecutive losses, that will helps them to reduce the big lose. But many gamblers still doesn't realizes that they must stops gambling after lose and keeps playing gambling because they thinks that they have a chance to wins and recovers their lose. That's not wrong but they must be wise to see their situation, especially if they already lose much money before.

They can back to playing gambling for other days and reduce their tension after losing their money and that will be better for them because they can manage their emotion not to becomes higher. They must realizes that gambling is an entertainment and not to spends more money after lose. If they can realizes the situation, they will stops gambling immediately and will leave the casino because they don't wants to see more losses.
Although it's wise advise to stop following a loss, this is more difficult. Our brains are programmed to find patterns and believe in luck, hence it is easy to imagine that the next win is just around here. Still, gambling is on arithmetic and probability rather than luck.

Imagine coin flip. The chances of earning heads on the next flip remain 50/50 even if you receive tails ten times in a succession. It's the same with gambling. Every bet is independent of the last; past losses cannot guarantee future gains. One should be reasonable regarding the chances and avoid let emotions distort their judgment. Setting limits, following them, and realizing that losses are inevitable of the game define responsible gambling.

It's an annoying feature in the human brain 🧠  and even if you try very hard to stop it , the brain just keep telling you the same thing over and over again that's why for me anytime I find myself in such situation I usually just let all the feeling die down and probably make myself busy with other stuffs because if you continue trying or having a chance at Winning you would probably just end up with losing scars that will probably take a whole lot of time to heal.

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Aanuoluwatofunmi
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June 17, 2024, 03:55:08 PM
 #558

We often talked about having patience and only few people were interest in taking the necessary precautions towards having this patient from the way they gamble, if we have patience, then it will be affordable to us to have a disciplined lifestyle from how we are gambling, we will also enjoy the selection we made on gambling as everything will be pointing at what will be profitable on us while gambling because we are on the path to the right pattern, if we know how to take patience into effective use, it will help achieved a lot from the way we gamble and the results we see in it.
nara1892
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June 17, 2024, 04:18:28 PM
 #559

Yes I also agree with the idea that patience can help a lot when one is involved in gambling, but I would say from my point of view that patience only helps a gambler to minimize the chances of significant losses, and not helps them to get more wins or bigger winnings. bigger, because after all there is no way or method that can guarantee a gambler will always win.

This means that patience will only help someone to avoid bad possibilities such as losing significant amounts of money by controlling oneself and one's emotions, especially when experiencing something undesirable such as defeat. This means that winning depends on how lucky you are at the time and patience will allow you to minimize the possibility of losing large amounts of money and also minimize the possibility of regret.

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June 18, 2024, 07:54:56 AM
 #560

Although it's wise advise to stop following a loss, this is more difficult. Our brains are programmed to find patterns and believe in luck, hence it is easy to imagine that the next win is just around here. Still, gambling is on arithmetic and probability rather than luck.

Imagine coin flip. The chances of earning heads on the next flip remain 50/50 even if you receive tails ten times in a succession. It's the same with gambling. Every bet is independent of the last; past losses cannot guarantee future gains. One should be reasonable regarding the chances and avoid let emotions distort their judgment. Setting limits, following them, and realizing that losses are inevitable of the game define responsible gambling.
We still have a chance to keeps trying what we thinks it's right for us so we don't lose too much money many times. Only a wise gamblers who will looks on himself and try to introspect what he already did. He will knows what holds himself in gambling by trying to patience will helps him to stay away from the big lose. He will knows that playing gambling needs patience and he doesn't have to chase the win but lets him to enjoy the gambling games as an entertainment.

We admit that having patience will always helps us because we can thinks clear about what we will do and we will not lets ourselves makes a mistake. We can thinks the next steps that we can do and if that's related to gambling, we can decides the right thing for us to avoids the big lose. Every bet can change our destiny but if we can be patience and just enjoy the games, we will not becomes emotion instead we are still limits our gambling activity because that's the only ways that we can do to avoids the big lose.

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