Cheap & silent mini PC for Bitcoin node & blockchain explorer?

[LoyceV]

Its not just the OS it's the OS and BIOS settings.

You can wipe / replace the drive / whatever. If Computrace (and similar) are active in the BIOS is will follow to the new OS if the OS recognizes the fact that it's on and active in the BIOS it will use it.

So it's basically BIOS malware. If it can do this, it could also be used to steal your private keys.

Isn't tech fun.

Yep. I can't wait to have e-sim hardware in every device.

The node is silent. I hear the fan running for a few seconds only occasionally.

I can top that: I'm a fan (pun intended) of quiet energy efficient laptops. If they don't even have a fan, there's nothing that can make any sound.

[ABCbits]

You can wipe / replace the drive / whatever. If Computrace (and similar) are active in the BIOS is will follow to the new OS if the OS recognizes the fact that it's on and active in the BIOS it will use it.

The worst part are re-flashing the BIOS doesn't always guarantee Computrace (or similar stuff) removed permanently.

Back on topic ...

I just bought a GMKtec NucBox G5, with N97 CPU, 12 GB RAM, 256 GB M.2 SATA SSD, and Win 11 Pro for $160. I plan to replace the SSD with 2TB and install Linux. It is very small -- about 7.25 cm x 7.25 cm x 4.5 cm.

Previously, I had a RPi 4 node set up using the Raspibolt guide. It was slow and a little unreliable because the RPi 4 is not a very powerful processor. Problems with availability of the RPi 5 led me to buy the GMKtec setup that I mentioned above. As stability is a priority, I went with Debian Linux.

--snip--

Just wondering, how easy or difficult to open and place the additional SSD on your mini PC?

[DaveF]

Just wondering, how easy or difficult to open and place the additional SSD on your mini PC?

If it's one of these:
https://www.amazon.com/GMKtec-G5-Business-Computer-Ethernet/dp/B0CZRJL7JM
or these:
https://www.amazon.com/Beelink-Desktop-Computer-Support-Ethernet/dp/B0BVLS7ZHP

It's 4 screws and it comes apart. Very easy.

there are a bunch of variations based on the manufacturer but for the most part they have 1 x m.2 and 1 x SATA ports.
A few have 2 x m.2 and no SATA. I have not seen any with 2 x SATA

-Dave

[odolvlobo]

Just wondering, how easy or difficult to open and place the additional SSD on your mini PC?

The GMKtec NucBox G5 has one M.2 SATA 2242 slot. I replaced the 256GB SSD with a 2TB SSD. I could only find one manufacturer of a 2TB M.2 SATA 2242 SSD, so I went with that one. The SSD is accessed by removing the 4 screws on the bottom side. It's very simple to replace the SSD, but keep in mind that you also have to install an OS on the new SSD.

[dkbit98]

This might be a bit fringe issue but something to keep in mind when getting used make sure that things like Computrace and similar are DISABLED when buying and setting up a used machine.

Safest way would be to fully flash and install open source BIOS like corebot or librebot, but that is only available for some limited number of Thinkpad laptop models.
Otherwise, you can consider all devices with normal BIOS firmware to have backdoor built inside, and that is a whole separate operating system inside of your BIOS.
There are some brand new laptops that are fully open source, but they are always available or they are not super fast.

[ABCbits]

Just wondering, how easy or difficult to open and place the additional SSD on your mini PC?

The GMKtec NucBox G5 has one M.2 SATA 2242 slot. I replaced the 256GB SSD with a 2TB SSD. I could only find one manufacturer of a 2TB M.2 SATA 2242 SSD, so I went with that one. The SSD is accessed by removing the 4 screws on the bottom side. It's very simple to replace the SSD, but keep in mind that you also have to install an OS on the new SSD.

It's much easier than i expected, considering size of the mini PC. I've seen few mini PC brands which require you separate the motherboard, fan and fragile/thin cable first before you can add/change SSD.

There are some brand new laptops that are fully open source, but they are always available or they are not super fast.

Do such laptop really exist? I've seen laptop claim being open source, while in reality only some parts is open source.

[vapourminer]

There are some brand new laptops that are fully open source, but they are always available or they are not super fast.

Do such laptop really exist? I've seen laptop claim being open source, while in reality only some parts is open source.

maybe like this one or its variants?

https://frame.work/products/laptop13-diy-intel-ultra-1

[ABCbits]

There are some brand new laptops that are fully open source, but they are always available or they are not super fast.

Do such laptop really exist? I've seen laptop claim being open source, while in reality only some parts is open source.

maybe like this one or its variants?

https://frame.work/products/laptop13-diy-intel-ultra-1

It's great laptop. But i would say it's mostly open source, since few discussion mention existence of Intel ME and similar stuff[1-3].

[1] https://community.frame.work/t/does-intel-chip-have-intels-management-engine/1260
[2] https://community.frame.work/t/intel-management-engine-me-active-management-technology-amt-instructions/6521
[3] https://community.frame.work/t/will-the-amd-version-have-the-amd-platform-security-platform/7403/6

[LoyceV]

It's great laptop. But i would say it's mostly open source, since few discussion mention existence of Intel ME and similar stuff[1-3].

Who's going to check the inner workings of a processor, even if it's open source? Checking software sources is already too much for almost anyone. Even reading the licenses is far too much work. Realistically, how much does it matter if hardware is open source?

[DaveF]

It's great laptop. But i would say it's mostly open source, since few discussion mention existence of Intel ME and similar stuff[1-3].

Who's going to check the inner workings of a processor, even if it's open source? Checking software sources is already too much for almost anyone. Even reading the licenses is far too much work. Realistically, how much does it matter if hardware is open source?

To some people everything, to others very little.
Personally I don't care much since I know there really is nothing I can do about it.

Between the CPU, support chipsets, BIOS and everything else there is no possibility of anyone knowing it all.
Some people feel open source is more secure, but even with things like Open SSH with 1000s of eyes on it you still have gaping holes
https://www.akamai.com/blog/security-research/2024-openssh-vulnerability-regression-what-to-know-and-do

-Dave

[ABCbits]

It's great laptop. But i would say it's mostly open source, since few discussion mention existence of Intel ME and similar stuff[1-3].

Who's going to check the inner workings of a processor, even if it's open source? Checking software sources is already too much for almost anyone. Even reading the licenses is far too much work. Realistically, how much does it matter if hardware is open source?

I get your point. But i mentioned Intel ME and similar stuff, since it's usually seen as security concern, security issue or even backdoor by security expert. And even if i and almost everyone doesn't audit the code, at least i know the company have some degree of transparency.

[dkbit98]

Do such laptop really exist? I've seen laptop claim being open source, while in reality only some parts is open source.

Sure, there are several companies who are making laptops like this, for example MNT Reform, Pinebok, Librem, etc.
There are also some laptops with RISC-V chips, and I think in future we going to see more laptops with ARM chips, as alternative to Intel and AMD processors, they are cooler, more quiet and can be very powerful.

Who's going to check the inner workings of a processor, even if it's open source?

Not you and me certainly
There are developers who are willing to do this, maybe coming from OSWA.org aka The Open Source Hardware Association.

[Synchronice]

There are some brand new laptops that are fully open source, but they are always available or they are not super fast.

Open source laptop? Seriously? Isn't ASML the only company that's capable to create a hardware that produces chips? Doesn't absolutely every CHIP manufacturing company use ASML? So, how it's possible to create an open-source hardware? Isn't this one of the hardest process? Financial-wise, it will be the most unprofitable business but otherwise, probably one in a million will be able to understand what's going on. The rest of users simply don't care.

Some people feel open source is more secure

The majority of people use open-source because it's a popular approach. Too many users of open-source software have no idea what is the code, another majority hasn't checked the code, another majority isn't a skilled programmer and we depend on a very tiny part of people who actually check the code and do something.

There are developers who are willing to do this, maybe coming from OSWA.org aka The Open Source Hardware Association.

I visited OSWA.org and it's Oregon Small Woodlands Association website What you mean is OSHWA.org

[LoyceV]

Who's going to check the inner workings of a processor, even if it's open source?

Not you and me certainly
There are developers who are willing to do this, maybe coming from OSWA.org aka The Open Source Hardware Association.

With software, I can use a checksum and know my version is the same. With hardware, I can't be sure. So all that's left for me is airgap devices, and by the time e-sims become mainstream I'll need a Faraday cage.

[dkbit98]

I visited OSWA.org and it's Oregon Small Woodlands Association website What you mean is OSHWA.org

Yeah, I made a mistake with missing letter H in OSHWA, and for the record I am not into Oregon Small Woodlands Association

With software, I can use a checksum and know my version is the same. With hardware, I can't be sure. So all that's left for me is airgap devices, and by the time e-sims become mainstream I'll need a Faraday cage.

It's easy and effective to get faraday bags for laptops and phones.
I didn't know people are still use pagers in some countries, but apparently they can easily be turned into explosive devices.
Don't trust, verify rule should apprently be applied to hardware devices also.

[LoyceV]

I didn't know people are still use pagers in some countries, but apparently they can easily be turned into explosive devices.

I don't think it was "easy", and I don't think anyone is going to blow up my Bitcoin node, but it does show what a targeted attack can do.

[Synchronice]

It's easy and effective to get faraday bags for laptops and phones.
I didn't know people are still use pagers in some countries, but apparently they can easily be turned into explosive devices.
Don't trust, verify rule should apprently be applied to hardware devices also.

At first I was like, what explosives is this man talking about but then I opened the TikTok (my bad, I know) and I couldn't believe my eyes. Is this for real? How is that possible? I only know pagers from nurses and firefighters. Actually, I don't even know what the heck it is but as I read the information, it's a very old device and there is no place for it in 21th century when there are smartphones.
That's why I say that hardware shouldn't be trusted today. We might feel that if we airgap computer we are safe but now I'm afraid we aren't. How did those pagers got exploded? Were those pagers implanted with explosives? And then in the combination if lithium battery, they would explode significantly but it's strange that the Lebanese government received them and used without even inspecting.

[LoyceV]

and used without even inspecting.

This kinda brings us back to the topic we're talking about: you can't inspect all hardware. Who's going to open a device and open it's lithium battery pack, to see if someone messed with the contents? There's only so much we can do.

[dkbit98]

How is that possible? I only know pagers from nurses and firefighters. Actually, I don't even know what the heck it is but as I read the information, it's a very old device and there is no place for it in 21th century when there are smartphones.

It's not just the problem with pagers, m0ssad infiltrated supply chains coming from all over the world, and more devices with batteries are now exploding, including phones and walkie talkies.
I am sure everyone saw videos before with electric cars and motorcycles exploding because of lithium batteries, so it's not that hard to imagine how they are performing this sinister terrorist attacks.
In fact you only need to put regular water in lithium battery to create fire or explosion, look at videos of firefighters unable to put down fires on electric vehicles for hours.
Lebanon was calling citizens to turn off electronic devices and internet access to prevent more explosions.

[Synchronice]

and used without even inspecting.

This kinda brings us back to the topic we're talking about: you can't inspect all hardware. Who's going to open a device and open it's lithium battery pack, to see if someone messed with the contents? There's only so much we can do.

An individual can't do that but when it comes to government, especially in this case when there is a war and you want to communicate very securely, you need to inspect but hands down this was done very well by Israel.
Did anyone watch this? How Pager Explosive Attack in Lebanon Happened?
I have a trust issue today. I can't trust my 14th gen i9 or RTX 4090, I believe that they have backdoors. That's why I prefer to use my very old computer as a cold wallet for Bitcoin. There is no guarantee that old hardware doesn't have issue but I believe I can trust it more because back then it was an innovation and development was the major motive for companies. Today, computers are very advanced compared to old times and the governments massively try to have a control on the population and news channels.

How is that possible? I only know pagers from nurses and firefighters. Actually, I don't even know what the heck it is but as I read the information, it's a very old device and there is no place for it in 21th century when there are smartphones.

It's not just the problem with pagers, m0ssad infiltrated supply chains coming from all over the world, and more devices with batteries are now exploding, including phones and walkie talkies.

That's terrible and pure evil.