[May 2024] Fees are low, use this opportunity to Consolidate your small inputs

[LoyceV]

Bump: fees are a bit better again

[BlackHatCoiner]

You can have high priority with just 8 sat/vb, so better consolidate or make important trades today.

I stumbled across this transaction: fed7f8dec7952a16c2130c882bd0b01678eef967d32542e6d551ea0af64410c4. Does anyone know what's that? I have never seen it before. Seems like a bad coinjoin with dust amounts and address reuse. It isn't Ordinals, as far as I can see. It's neither an experimental Tapscript, just an ordinary Segwit, which spends 451 inputs and creates 451 outputs with approximately the same values.

[stompix]

I stumbled across this transaction: fed7f8dec7952a16c2130c882bd0b01678eef967d32542e6d551ea0af64410c4. Does anyone know what's that? I have never seen it before. Seems like a bad coinjoin with dust amounts and address reuse. It isn't Ordinals, as far as I can see. It's neither an experimental Tapscript, just an ordinary Segwit, which spends 451 inputs and creates 451 outputs with approximately the same values.

Somebody moving his inscriptions
It's those things:
https://www.ord.io/bc1qu2em6g2zaeqkluvxvjpa7zvesafu44u7ug2un0

CREATED March 19, 2024, 8:15 PM GMT+2 60 days ago

with this
https://mempool.space/tx/2d30cd255aa308e2ea0275350390965b30786238b3d5d0465b088539f059a123

Bump: fees are a bit better again

I wonder how much better it can get, current block rewards are:
Total fees   ‎0.087 BTC $5,853
this means anyone willing to pay $6k to have his own block all by himself can do so, if we go even lower at 4 cents it's half of that, and we know there are guys willing to pay 2 million for a satoshi...

[BlackHatCoiner]

Somebody moving his inscriptions
It's those things:

Got it. So trash.

this means anyone willing to pay $6k to have his own block all by himself can do so, if we go even lower at 4 cents it's half of that, and we know there are guys willing to pay 2 million for a satoshi...

Two things:

• If someone broadcasts 4 MB with the highest priority, it doesn't mean they are immediately mined. Such action would simply abruptly rise the high priority fee rate.
• $6k isn't nothing. It's $6k for just 10 minutes. That's $864k for one day with clogged up network, and that's without taking into consideration the fact that some people will simply choose to pay more than the spammer.

[LoyceV]

I wonder how much better it can get, current block rewards are:
Total fees   ‎0.087 BTC $5,853
this means anyone willing to pay $6k to have his own block all by himself can do so

I don't think that's how it works: the highest paying transactions in a block are much more expensive to replace than the average. To get the entire block, you must outbid the highest fee.

Somebody moving his inscriptions
It's those things:

Got it. So trash.

Yep. Create dust, move dust. Madness.

[stompix]

I don't think that's how it works: the highest paying transactions in a block are much more expensive to replace than the average. To get the entire block, you must outbid the highest fee.

Pools can easily choose what transactions they want to include based on their requirements if there is enough demand for those and they see they can have either a full block at 10sat/vb or 99% of it at 1sat/vb and one tx at 100sat/vb they can choose the largest one, plus with income this low no pool will refuse and extra 5k on the block with a behind the curtain deal, remember that these are extra money they will not pay the miners for it 

• $6k isn't nothing. It's $6k for just 10 minutes. That's $864k for one day with clogged up network, and that's without taking into consideration the fact that some people will simply choose to pay more than the spammer.

Oh, it might look for us as much, but when you take into consideration how many we are in this world and how some spend money it becomes peanuts. Ordinals have in the first wave managed to keep fees above 30sat/vb for 4 months, that's two years of tx at 5sat/vb and let's not forget that once the fees go down there are also genuine transactions and consolidations happening.

And even one block a day, that's close to 1% of the capacity, imagine the headlines and how much Bitcoiners would laugh if a kid were able to cut 5% of Visa capacity in day with $30k. 

[BlackHatCoiner]

Oh, it might look for us as much, but when you take into consideration how many we are in this world and how some spend money it becomes peanuts.

What's the point of clogging up the network for a day? You'll be spending around a million dollars to force people rise their fee rates. So what? And how long can you retain this attack? If it's money waste, then it can't operate forever. There has to be profit for this to realistically occur.

And even one block a day, that's close to 1% of the capacity, imagine the headlines and how much Bitcoiners would laugh if a kid were able to cut 5% of Visa capacity in day with $30k.

Honest question. I know you're a miner. How do you expect for the network to survive if the average transaction fee is not extremely expensive in the future? Comparing Visa with Bitcoin is like comparing apples with spacecrafts.

[LoyceV]

How do you expect for the network to survive if the average transaction fee is not extremely expensive in the future?

Allow me to inverse the question: How do you expect Bitcoin to survive if the average transaction fee is extremely expensive in the future?

I admit, it's a bit of a rhetorical question. I don't expect Bitcoin to disappear because of fees, but the average Bitcoin user won't be able to make a transaction. And can you really call someone "a user" if he can't actually use it?

[stompix]

Honest question. I know you're a miner. How do you expect for the network to survive if the average transaction fee is not extremely expensive in the future?

The same way Toyota does versus Ferrari, you sell 10 millions cars instead of 100, in bigger batches..you know what I mean 

What's the point of clogging up the network for a day? You'll be spending around a million dollars to force people rise their fee rates. So what? And how long can you retain this attack? If it's money waste, then it can't operate forever. There has to be profit for this to realistically occur.

Yup, like going long with 10x leverage on Solana 

Allow me to inverse the question: How do you expect Bitcoin to survive if the average transaction fee is extremely expensive in the future?

Once the block reward is gone, simply, it won't! 
With fees not making a dent in the reward, the security of the network halves every for year compared to the sums of money it guards, fast forward 10 times in the future and you have Fort Knox guarded by an obese 90 yo armed with a pack of tic tacs.

[BlackHatCoiner]

And can you really call someone "a user" if he can't actually use it?

Bitcoin will survive, just not as magic Internet currency in the base layer. It might sound like too-Saylor, but it is true: the base layer is the asset layer. The bet is to produce a working layer on top of that base. A second layer like lightning is what I'd rather recognize as a "transaction layer". Lightning payments fit better the definition of a "transaction", because you'd expect from a transaction to complete instantly, very inexpensively and more importantly: to be feasible to make nearly infinite (small) transactions.

I'm absolutely not saying that lightning is ideal, not even working great. It's just an attempt to implement one such layer. It's good that we acknowledge that such layer is needed. I see a lot of altcoiners being proponents of big block sizes, and that this is the solution to sustainability and cheap fees, which is evidently false.

To answer your question, you can call someone a user, as long as they use bitcoin. Be it on the base layer, or not. The bet is to develop second layers, and depend on them when we want financial transactions.

The same way Toyota does versus Ferrari, you sell 10 millions cars instead of 100, in bigger batches..you know what I mean

If you increase the block size limit (which is what I presume you mean), you're destroying the fee market competition, and you're making less money as a miner. So, it's worse.