Cheap & silent mini PC for Bitcoin node & blockchain explorer?

[philipma1957]

I don't know how much you paid for this configuration, but I found similar configuration below $100 locally but with smaller SSD, so it's not a bad price

$135.  I assume part of what I paid for was the form factor.  It's the OptiPlex Micro, so it's quite small. (OptiPlex.  What a stupid name.  That's so very "Dell")

I am not sure it is going to be totally silent.
Just make sure to keep it in good ventilated space and you should be fine.

It's been running now for 48 hours.  Almost totally silent, and it runs pretty cool.  I have to put my ear up against it to hear even the slightest hum.  And my internet is faster than I thought.  I should have the whole blockchain synced up by the end of the night.

I've been pleasantly surprised by how easy Start9 was to set up.

Told you they are nice pcs. Glad the software works well.

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[Meuserna]

I'm really happy with this setup.  The PC runs surprisingly cool and I've never heard the fan kick on at all.  Well, I assume it has a fan, but I've never heard it.

I've only had it running for 8 days, but it's been great.

Setting up Start9 was so easy to set up that I feel foolish for now doing this a while ago.  I'm running Bitcoin Core with a full node (not pruned, in other words), plus Electrs and Mempool.  With Start9, this was basically one click installs for each, and maybe a bit of config?  Actually, I think most of the configuration was set up on install.  I mean, this was ridiculously easy.

It took around 30 hours for Bitcoin Core to sync the entire blockchain, and Electrs took a while too.  I don't know how long.  I let it run overnight & it was done by the morning.

I still have a lot to figure out, so far, I'm thrilled.

[JossBrown]

Hey, all… my first post.

For a few years I've been using a refurbished Dell Optiplex 9020M micro with an Intel Core i5-4570T, 16 GB of RAM, and an internal 2 TB SATA SSD… running Ubuntu Server. It works fine, but it's an old machine, and newer & more efficient low-power Mini-PCs have been flooding the market for a few years now.

I'm currently eyeing one based on the Intel N100, which, compared to the old CPUs (especially the Intel Core CPUs), is a lot better:

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/5157vs2041/Intel-N100-vs-Intel-i5-4570T

For example, the Beelink Mini S12 Pro comes with 16 GB of RAM out of the box, can work with 32 GB, can house an M.2 NVMe SSD up to 2 TB and an additional SATA SSD of 2 TB, which is probably enough for a full node running Ubuntu Server for many decades worth of timechain storage, all of it on the internal M.2, with regular automated backups to the internal SATA SSD. And it's probably not a lot more expensive than an old refurbished Mini-PC.

More fun of course would be to build one yourself, e.g. with an ASRock N100DC-ITX, and a cheap Mini-ITX chassis, e.g. one by SilverStone like the Milo 10, or (if you have a home lab) a 1U rackmount chassis for better expandability, which is always possible with a DIY build.

[DaveF]

Hey, all… my first post.

For a few years I've been using a refurbished Dell Optiplex 9020M micro with an Intel Core i5-4570T, 16 GB of RAM, and an internal 2 TB SATA SSD… running Ubuntu Server. It works fine, but it's an old machine, and newer & more efficient low-power Mini-PCs have been flooding the market for a few years now.

I'm currently eyeing one based on the Intel N100, which, compared to the old CPUs (especially the Intel Core CPUs), is a lot better:

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/5157vs2041/Intel-N100-vs-Intel-i5-4570T

For example, the Beelink Mini S12 Pro comes with 16 GB of RAM out of the box, can work with 32 GB, can house an M.2 NVMe SSD up to 2 TB and an additional SATA SSD of 2 TB, which is probably enough for a full node running Ubuntu Server for many decades worth of timechain storage, all of it on the internal M.2, with regular automated backups to the internal SATA SSD. And it's probably not a lot more expensive than an old refurbished Mini-PC.

More fun of course would be to build one yourself, e.g. with an ASRock N100DC-ITX, and a cheap Mini-ITX chassis, e.g. one by SilverStone like the Milo 10, or (if you have a home lab) a 1U rackmount chassis for better expandability, which is always possible with a DIY build.

Yes, I have been moving my RPi setups and other old micro PCs to the N100 Beelink and similar.

Faster then the PI, cheaper then the PI (once you add in the cost of case + PS + stuff) a little faster then the 4th gen i5 and a tiny bit slower then a 6th gen i5 but for applications like this it's perfect. 16GB Ram and 512GB drive for less then $175. Just swap out the drive for a 1TB ($65) and you are good to go. For $10 on amazon you can get a case for the drive that came with it and you now have a 512GB portable USB drive and it's all new. No worry about refurbs.

-Dave

[JossBrown]

Another option I have is to combine it all into one server. I do plan on building a home server/NAS, which would be running 24/7 anyway. So any additional Bitcoin & Lightning processes wouldn't really matter regarding power consumption. But I'd go for Unraid, and while there is a Docker container for bitcoind, there are none for lnd, Fulcrum, mempool etc., at least none with official or community support. So it would all have to go into an Ubuntu Server VM, and that would be a bit overkill imho.

[ABCbits]

For example, the Beelink Mini S12 Pro comes with 16 GB of RAM out of the box, can work with 32 GB, can house an M.2 NVMe SSD up to 2 TB and an additional SATA SSD of 2 TB, which is probably enough for a full node running Ubuntu Server for many decades worth of timechain storage, all of it on the internal M.2, with regular automated backups to the internal SATA SSD. And it's probably not a lot more expensive than an old refurbished Mini-PC.

More fun of course would be to build one yourself, e.g. with an ASRock N100DC-ITX, and a cheap Mini-ITX chassis, e.g. one by SilverStone like the Milo 10, or (if you have a home lab) a 1U rackmount chassis for better expandability, which is always possible with a DIY build.

And somewhere between those options, you can buy barebone (without RAM and storage drive) mini PC. That way, you could save a bit of money by choosing your own RAM and storage, while also avoiding built-in Windows (if you prefer using Linux).

--snip--

Yes, I have been moving my RPi setups and other old micro PCs to the N100 Beelink and similar.

Faster then the PI,
--snip--

Looking at benchmark result (between Intel N100 and Raspberry Pi 4 CPU), it's more accurate to say it's far faster.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/5157vs4297/Intel-N100-vs-BCM2711

[philipma1957]

I like the larger  8 inch by 8 inch by 1.5

dell
Lenovo
hp

all make them

The best one I have is a Lenovo think station.

two 2 tb msata ssds
16 gb ram
a disctrete nvidia gpu
and an 8th gen i5 or maybe i7

I have a post on it somewhere.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5398578.msg60489562#msg60489562

I have the p320 it is a fucking beast.

and I have a Nvidia t1000 gpu in it.

so whenever gpu mining is profitable I mine with it.  Which means it actually makes 25 to 75 cents a day.

Along with running the node.

here is one for 250 or best offer

https://www.ebay.com/itm/335122507289?


i7-7700t cpu and 32gb ram just add a pair of better msata's

[JossBrown]

You could probably even go for a mobo or a Mini-PC with an Intel N50 CPU instead of the N100… only two cores & two threads (based on the Alderlake efficiency cores) at 6W TDP.

But still better than the Pi 4: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/4297vs5632/BCM2711-vs-Intel-N50
EDIT – comparison of Pi 5 and N50 (no benchmarks yet): https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-raspberry_pi_5_b_broadcom_bcm2712-vs-intel_processor_n50

If you're only using it for a Bitcoin node with Lightning etc., two cores should be A-OK.

Not sure if any N50 Mini-PCs exist on the market, but there are a couple of Mini-ITX boards, but only from Chinese manufacturers or industrial providers like Kontron, incl. the tiny Mini-STX form factor, but the Chinese boards tend to be iffy, e.g. regarding BIOS & updates, and the industrial products tend to be more expensive.

A super-efficient Mini-STX build would e.g. use a board like the Kontron K3921-N1 industrial board with the N50—which, even though it's an STX, would still be quite expensive (probably more than €150), and I couldn't find any consumer-grade Mini-STX boards—, plus a Mini-STX chassis, e.g. the SilverStone VT-01 with space for one additional 2.5 inch SATA SSD.

My own DIY Mini-ITX rackmount build with an N100 that I slapped together last night would use:

• Inter-Tech 1U-K-126L rackmount chassis
• 2 * Noctua NF-A4x20 PWM fans
• ASRock N100DC-ITX
• 19V 120W DC power supply

for a total of approx. €250 w/out shipping for a barebones build w/out memory and storage. More than an old refurbished Mini-PC of course, but not much more than e.g. an N100 Beelink.

[philipma1957]

yeah not a fan of the rasp pi.

It seems underpowered expensive and not very reliable.

the nucs look okay.

but my p320 is pretty much flawless.

it is small enough and whenever gpus are earning well it makes money to run it.

[LoyceV]

yeah not a fan of the rasp pi.

It seems underpowered expensive and not very reliable.

I remember the Raspberry Pi as being cheap back in the days. The Dutch Raspberry Pi Wiki confirms it started as educational, with an open structure. Wiki shows a $5 basic price (Pi Zero) up to $35 for the Pi 4 B. I also remember seeing all kinds of extensions you could buy, to connect other applications, do your own programming and use it to automate real life things.
Nowadays, the Pi seems to be used more as a small computer, with more power, more memory, more storage, and a higher price. I've never owned one, but it looks like it's a completely different product with a different target audience now than when it started.

[DaveF]

yeah not a fan of the rasp pi.

It seems underpowered expensive and not very reliable.

I remember the Raspberry Pi as being cheap back in the days. The Dutch Raspberry Pi Wiki confirms it started as educational, with an open structure. Wiki shows a $5 basic price (Pi Zero) up to $35 for the Pi 4 B. I also remember seeing all kinds of extensions you could buy, to connect other applications, do your own programming and use it to automate real life things.
Nowadays, the Pi seems to be used more as a small computer, with more power, more memory, more storage, and a higher price. I've never owned one, but it looks like it's a completely different product with a different target audience now than when it started.

RPi lost the price advantage, when Intel dropped the prices on the low power CPUs. Even when the RPi4 came out the embedded / N100 type CPUs (yeah I know those did not exist then but the equivalent) were more then the entire RPi itself. Now Intel is pushing the board + CPU (no ram) should be at the $50 or so price point. So getting the mini PCs out the door now for $175 is not even that hard.

The Zeros and other ones are a different story but the last run of the 4's and now with the 5's RPi has gotten more expensive.
HOWEVER, the RPi can be more of a tinker project. There are a lot of cases, add on boards, and other things that you can use it for. The mini PCs are.....mini PCs if you can't plug it into a USB port you can't add it.

In the end it really is going to depend on what you want to do with it.

The new mini / NUC vs used micro PCs that Phil uses can probably be discussed forever. It really comes down to what *you* like.

-Dave

[dkbit98]

It works fine, but it's an old machine, and newer & more efficient low-power Mini-PCs have been flooding the market for a few years now.

I understand the need to save power with low-power mini PC devices, but running a node 24/7 is not spending all that much power like bitcoin mining does.
However, I do appreciate when something is silent and quiet and I am ready to pay for that.

Yes, I have been moving my RPi setups and other old micro PCs to the N100 Beelink and similar.

Does Intel N100 devices have passive or active cooling?
This days I more prefer AMD than Intel, it would be interesting if they have some alternatives available.

[DaveF]

Does Intel N100 devices have passive or active cooling?
This days I more prefer AMD than Intel, it would be interesting if they have some alternatives available.

Depends on the device.
The cheaper ones have fans. There are ones that are more money that are fanless.
Plastic case and a cheap fan cost a lot less then a big chunk of aluminum

-Dave

[LoyceV]

I understand the need to save power with low-power mini PC devices, but running a node 24/7 is not spending all that much power like bitcoin mining does.

I'd like to think that every watt counts, especially if you can do the same task with less electricity, and especially for tasks that run 24/7. At € 0,2718/kWh, each additional watt costs €2.38 per year. If you can get 20 watts off by buying the right hardware for the job, and plan to run it for 6 years before replacing it, it's worth spending up to €285 more on the hardware.

However, I do appreciate when something is silent and quiet and I am ready to pay for that.

Usually, power and noise go hand in hand. Less power means less cooling. I used to have loud hardware around me, but now really appreciate quiet things.

[DaveF]

However, I do appreciate when something is silent and quiet and I am ready to pay for that.

Usually, power and noise go hand in hand. Less power means less cooling. I used to have loud hardware around me, but now really appreciate quiet things.

Sort of, the next factor is cost.
As I pointed out you can get silent mini PCs but they cost more since you are more or less getting it in a full metal case that is essentially a giant heatsink.
You can even get full size PCs that are mostly silent: https://silentpc.com/fanless-pcs/
But they cost a lot more.

It all depends on what you are looking for.

-Dave

[philipma1957]

I understand the need to save power with low-power mini PC devices, but running a node 24/7 is not spending all that much power like bitcoin mining does.

I'd like to think that every watt counts, especially if you can do the same task with less electricity, and especially for tasks that run 24/7. At € 0,2718/kWh, each additional watt costs €2.38 per year. If you can get 20 watts off by buying the right hardware for the job, and plan to run it for 6 years before replacing it, it's worth spending up to €285 more on the hardware.

However, I do appreciate when something is silent and quiet and I am ready to pay for that.

Usually, power and noise go hand in hand. Less power means less cooling. I used to have loud hardware around me, but now really appreciate quiet things.

or do the p320 pc I linked with an 8gb discrete gpu. and hope for a decent gpu mining run.

I earned far more then the power it costs. At the moment it earns about 4 cents a day profit I dont bother using it since 4 cents a day profit is meh. But many days it made 40 cents a day.

That kills the nuc or the rasp pi.

I owned four different rasp pi the 1 the 2 the 2b? the 3

when I started seeing cheap 8 inch by 8 inch by 1.5 inch tiny pcs I switched.

I then found the p320 which fits the t1000 8gb gpu I would never use a rasp pi I likely won’t use the nuc

but they finally lowered the nuc prices to compete with the lenovo p320 the hp optiplex and the dell tiny

[LoyceV]

I earned far more then the power it costs. At the moment it earns about 4 cents a day profit I dont bother using it since 4 cents a day profit is meh. But many days it made 40 cents a day.

At 4 cents a day profit I'd have free heating all winter Unfortunately, I've never seen any mining that's worth it considering the prices here.

[JossBrown]

Hardkernel have released the new ODROID-H4 series, and the H4 Plus would probably be the best choice for a DIY node build:

https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-h4-plus/

It uses one of Intel's N-series chips, but the N97 instead of the N100; the N97 is a little more powerful, with passively cooled 12 W TDP instead of 6 W, but since it's such a tiny board, it will idle at only 2,7–2,8 W when using DC power; maximum 48 GB of DDR5 memory; 2 * 2.5 GbE RJ45 ports; an eMMC slot for the boot volume, e.g. Ubuntu Server; an M.2 slot with four lanes for full gen3 x4 speed, e.g. as the node's data volume for the timechain etc.; four SATA ports via PCIe 3.0 x1 for either 2 * 500 MB/s SATA SSDs or 4 * 250 MB/s SATA HDDs; so you could use one SATA SSD or HDD as a backup destination for your data volume, in case your primary data volume is corrupted… or use three SATA SSDs in RAID5 or RAIDz1 as the primary data volume, with the M.2 SSD (or a fourth SSD or HDD) as backup.

Hardkernel will release cases for these tiny boards, but there's also a Mini-ITX kit, if you want to put this into your own chassis, e.g. a rackmount:

https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/h4-mini-itx-kit/

[DaveF]

Hardkernel have released the new ODROID-H4 series, and the H4 Plus would probably be the best choice for a DIY node build:

https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-h4-plus/

It uses one of Intel's N-series chips, but the N97 instead of the N100; the N97 is a little more powerful, with passively cooled 12 W TDP instead of 6 W, but since it's such a tiny board, it will idle at only 2,7–2,8 W when using DC power; maximum 48 GB of DDR5 memory; 2 * 2.5 GbE RJ45 ports; an eMMC slot for the boot volume, e.g. Ubuntu Server; an M.2 slot with four lanes for full gen3 x4 speed, e.g. as the node's data volume for the timechain etc.; four SATA ports via PCIe 3.0 x1 for either 2 * 500 MB/s SATA SSDs or 4 * 250 MB/s SATA HDDs; so you could use one SATA SSD or HDD as a backup destination for your data volume, in case your primary data volume is corrupted… or use three SATA SSDs in RAID5 or RAIDz1 as the primary data volume, with the M.2 SSD (or a fourth SSD or HDD) as backup.

Hardkernel will release cases for these tiny boards, but there's also a Mini-ITX kit, if you want to put this into your own chassis, e.g. a rackmount:

https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/h4-mini-itx-kit/

The issue for something like this goes back to what I said above. Cost.
But the ODROID boards start at $100 before case / power supply / RAM / Drive.
A pre-built one with all of that but not fan-less is $200

Depends on what you are looking for. But by the time you add 16GB of RAM and a 1 TB m.2 you are looking at more money.

-Dave

[dkbit98]

I'd like to think that every watt counts, especially if you can do the same task with less electricity, and especially for tasks that run 24/7. At € 0,2718/kWh, each additional watt costs €2.38 per year. If you can get 20 watts off by buying the right hardware for the job, and plan to run it for 6 years before replacing it, it's worth spending up to €285 more on the hardware.

Sure, but we are not talking big savings here, unless you turned all devices in your house to lower power.
Refrigerator and other devices are spending much more power and they are working 24/7.
It's not a bad idea to buy power meter for sockets to check how much power they all use.

Usually, power and noise go hand in hand. Less power means less cooling. I used to have loud hardware around me, but now really appreciate quiet things.

Same here.
I even purchased totally silent analogue wall clock.