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Author Topic: Quantum computer? So what! No worries...(?)  (Read 4871 times)
OROBTC
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March 29, 2014, 04:37:27 PM
 #1

Newb OROBTC started an encryption thread soon after joining, which quickly got way ahead of me (went over my head, beyond my scope).  Someone sent me this little link showing that even a well designed quantum computer surrounding a star and operating at 100% efficiency could not crack it.  I will post the link and try to post the picture:

http://i.imgur.com/CzyO1yv.jpg

Picture (forgive any weird sizing, remember, newb here):



If neither of the above work, try this "link":

http:// i [dot] imgur [dot] com / CzyO1yv [dot] jpg    <--- No spaces, "[dot]" = "."

***

I do not pretend to say that the image says that BTC is not crackable.  But, if whoever did this has his math right, this should be a confidence builder.
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vpitcher07
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March 29, 2014, 05:21:50 PM
 #2

I believe that picture is referring to a supercomputer that does not operate on the quantum level. I could be wrong.

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March 29, 2014, 05:28:48 PM
 #3

I thought that, that was a picture of the sun...    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

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OROBTC
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March 29, 2014, 05:33:04 PM
 #4

...

@ vpitcher07

Someone sent me ANOTHER document (I am still trying to find it) showing that even a big quantum computer, running full blast, would have to depend on other components (input/output, other peripherals, etc?) that could not keep up (speed of light, mechanics of other pieces of physics) with the computer.

If I find the document ("a tad technical"), I will post it.
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March 29, 2014, 05:38:55 PM
 #5

I thought that, that was a picture of the sun...    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Hhahhaa yes,look like picture of sun xD

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vpitcher07
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March 29, 2014, 05:40:51 PM
 #6

...

@ vpitcher07

Someone sent me ANOTHER document (I am still trying to find it) showing that even a big quantum computer, running full blast, would have to depend on other components (input/output, other peripherals, etc?) that could not keep up (speed of light, mechanics of other pieces of physics) with the computer.

If I find the document ("a tad technical"), I will post it.

Oh ok, yeah I'd be interested in reading it! Regardless, I think we can both agree bitcoin is damn secure.

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lnternet
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March 29, 2014, 05:42:47 PM
 #7

This has been discussed at lengths.

For instance

http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/6062/what-effects-would-a-scalable-quantum-computer-have-on-bitcoin

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bitcoin+and+quantum+computing

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Singlebyte
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March 29, 2014, 05:43:37 PM
 #8

Today's most advanced quantum computer can only solve:

15 = 3 x 5 (with about 50% accuracy)


We are a ways off from seeing the potential of quantum computers capabilities.
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March 29, 2014, 08:28:33 PM
 #9

I thought that, that was a picture of the sun...    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
Point is, quantum computing is so early in the stage that they can't even do basic math.  When the figure out how to harness quantum's potential then nothing will be safe.  Factoring or cryptography or any other math mathematical equation will be done in minutes.  Quantum physics suggest all solutions are attempted at once whereas a typical computer attempts to process a problem one step at a time until solved.   What was your point

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March 29, 2014, 09:15:15 PM
 #10

I thought that, that was a picture of the sun...    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
I also think so, what is it?

It's a picture of the sun, just to show the amount of energy.

I could be wrong here (though I doubt it) but a more knowledgeable member can verify...


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ddink7
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March 29, 2014, 11:47:51 PM
 #11

Just remember, this is the difficulty of cracking encryption using brute-force. If a new technique or "short-cut" is ever discovered, this entire thing could be moot.

A note about quantum computers: the type of quantum computer that can crack encryption is one which runs Shor's Algorithm. Shor's Algorithm allows the computer to crack encryption in polynomial time, which drastically speeds the process. Bitcoin relies on several different forms of encryption, however, only one of which (ECDSA--which secures your wallets) would be crackable with Shor's Algorithm. SHA-256 and RIPEMD-160 would remain unaffected.

Also, the only wallets which would be vulnerable would be those that had spent money. Unused wallets would not be vulnerable. Moving the protocol over to Lamport Signatures would pretty much solve the problem entirely, in any event.

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March 29, 2014, 11:50:35 PM
 #12

quantum create ... difficulty rise  Grin bitcoin is formidable. Cheesy
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March 30, 2014, 12:34:41 AM
 #13

OROBTC, I had already explained to you before in that other thread you started. That is a nonsense claim about a thermodynamic limitation for quantum computing attack:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=500994.msg5562217#msg5562217

Here is an excellent article on this quantum computing topic and also explains how Bitcoin's three encryption methods are combined, so it is relevant to this thread's title as well:

http://www.bitcoinnotbombs.com/bitcoin-vs-the-nsas-quantum-computer/

There are two things I dispute from the article.

Quote
Let’s consider the type attack most people think of when hear of quantum computers―a brute force attack.

Nonsense. Shor's algorithm is not a brute force attack. The author inserted this disinformation into his otherwise good article, because most users don't understand that Shor's algorithm doesn't require a brute force capability.

They correctly assert that a brute force attack would exceed fathomable entropy (thermodynamic) limitations. However, what they fail to tell you is that Shor's algorithm isn't a brute force attack. Shor's algorithm takes advantage of the fact that in quantum computing the computation is unfathomably parallelized.

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March 30, 2014, 12:38:14 AM
 #14

I thought that, that was a picture of the sun...    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

That is a picture of a dust ball sample taken from Satoshi's hind end.

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March 30, 2014, 12:39:27 AM
 #15

There is something that you are forgetting, when quantum computers are built, a new variation of protocol will have to be developed because quantum computers render difficulty at 0.  Absolutely nothing.  There would be no difficulty rating for a quantum computer. Wink
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March 30, 2014, 12:42:29 AM
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There is something that you are forgetting, when quantum computers are built, a new variation of protocol will have to be developed because quantum computers render difficulty at 0.  Absolutely nothing.  There would be no difficulty rating for a quantum computer. Wink

Nonsense. Only Grover's algorithm applies to the SHA hash of the blocks and thus difficulty of proof-of-work would not be adversely affected. The quantum computing threat is Shor's algorithm which applies to the elliptical cryptography used in the signatures of transactions.

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March 30, 2014, 01:06:27 AM
 #17

OP, all this discussed in many previous threads.  Bottom line is
Yes, correct. No worries. 

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March 30, 2014, 01:15:27 AM
 #18

http://www.quantrek.org/size_comparison/compare_local_stars.jpg

Arcturus might have enough power to brute force SHA 256

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March 30, 2014, 01:24:19 AM
 #19

http://www.quantrek.org/size_comparison/compare_local_stars.jpg

Arcturus might have enough power to brute force SHA 256

Haha nice.

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March 30, 2014, 01:27:03 AM
 #20

Funny reading this thread.  Known quantum computers can barely do a basic problem a 1950 calculator could do but everyone still speculates.

15 = 3 x 5 is the most they can calculate at this time in the game.


But if they ever do figure out quantum computing, bitcoin could be hacked in under an hour.  It won't matter that the numbers are so large that typical computers would take longer than the age of the universe. Quantum computing essentially tries every possible solution at once.


http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012-08/quantum-processor-calculates-15-3x5-about-half-time

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