@Agbe how did you "lose" coins on a centralized exchange that needed to be refunded? Have you been hacked? Or why would the centralized exchange have to refund lost coins? If it was the access to your account, it all comes down to whether or not it was an exchange you have provided KYC to or whether you can prove the identity tied to the email address you used to sign up at the exchange. I am bit confused because losing coins that have to be refunded on an exchange is usually a case when the exchange is to blame for a hack. Otherwise it makes little sense.
I think you can get more information on what happened to me in this link.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5500004.0 read all the links so that will understand the missed coins. And to recap it all. I bought bitcoin from someone through p2p which I normally do, and send them to Kucoin but when I wanted to sell it I transferred them to ByBit which I didn't include the memo tag and the coins were lost so I have to battle with the two exchanges until finally it was Kucoin refunded back the coins to me although ByBit also refunded them to Kucoin and in return Kucoin also did their part. But I pay a service fee and the matter was resolved.
Ok understood. I am a bit confused why would they ask for a memo tag for USDT transactions? That is the first time I have ever heard that. I know that exchanges ask for a memo tag when you send XMR transactions. But other than that, this is new to me and actually very confusing because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
But you know, most importantly you got your coins back. If you ask me, it is theft by ByBit, isn't it? Why would they need a memo tag if you can prove that your deposit address on ByBit was the receiving address of the amount you sent from Kucoin? Doesn't the blockchain show that your ByBit address has had an incoming transaction?
As I said, good to know someone took responsibility although I doubt it was the right party here. Kudos for Kucoin although I am not the biggest fan of these exchanges.
Add:
[edited out]
As for a lost back up seeds, I think it is relatively hypothetical that someone finds it after 200 years when the initial owner probably did everything to detect them, or accidentally destroyed them.
We could think of quite a few different scenarios in which keys might be thought to be lost over a very long period of time, and yeah, maybe the scenarios for recovery 200 years down the road are not as good as a shorter timeline, such as 50 to 100 years.. and a person could have lost his seed, or forgot that he put it on steel in the garden.. and a person down the road comes across the information and realizes that it is a seed phrase.. so then recovers the coins in whatever wallets are then available... or someone might even think that he had destroyed some keys.. but he did not destroy all of the copies... again someone else (in the future or 50, 100, 200 or some other quantity of years) comes across the seed words or whatever form of password (or recovery system that is then being used)... and he figures out how to check them and/or to recover them... sometimes it could be a matter of putting together a puzzle.. to put various parts of the puzzle together in order to see that it is a seed phrase.. and maybe even some of the seed words were written in order and others were written backwards, so there could be some back and forth tries before finally coming across the combination that opens the wallet.
I get your point here as I myself have a good example. It is not about 100 years, but just recently I had to clean up a barn that was like in a horror movie full with stuff and spiderwebs and all sorts of dirt. It was from my grandfather who is now dead for a while, but nobody from the family got down to do it. Now my grandfather would probably not be holding any BTC if he still lived, but now the new generations might well hold some BTC and put the seed in any form in some cupboard or chest, which then gets carried into the barn when someone dies. I can tell that nobody ever had a closer look at that barn for well over 25 years. This would be a scenario where one day someone could find a steel plate with a seed. We found all kinds of stuff and if it was 30 years later now, I would have been watching out for any disks or mediums that could carry important data for sure.
But I do think that the bitcoin blockchain is an architecture that has a very good chance to survive for a very, very long time. Because after all, what other architecture that is publicly verifiable for everyone, free from SPOFs and resolves the Byzantine Generals problem?
We still don't know what we don't know - which especially pertains to things that might happen in the future...so yeah, right now bitcoin seems as the best thing since sliced bread, but we cannot know if there might be some way in which it might be broken and/or superseded.
I know, it is more like getting your opinion and do some speculation although neither am I a friend of speculation nor are you as I know. It is just that sometimes those are the things going through my head since I am involved with bitcoin.
When companies like Neuralink are successful and we all control everything with our brains at some point, it would probably still not be possible to have a verification method that there is no double spending going on. I know Neuralink sounds like science fiction, but I doubt our brain would be able to process an entire blockchain in 200 years from now. Then again, who knows what's coming? We won't find out sadly.
I am not going to claim to know a lot of these things, and surely sometimes we might not need to know the specific inventions and/or break-throughs to predict the future, yet sometimes certain kinds of changes, inventions or happenings can greatly change future trajectories.. and perhaps some things (events/happening) could contribute towards changes in either direction in terms of loss of technologies and powers or the gaining of more technologies and powers, but then there can be various strains with social interactions and even the numger of people who might be able to have knowledge in certain fields and to be able to share or to pass down knowledge.. and maybe some kinds of knowledge come from doing things, and if we might not know how certain things are done, then the break down of some of the more sophisticated systems could end up in breakdowns of progress. and maybe having to start over in some technological areas.
Very true and one day even one of the most important inventions ever might be gone: the wheel! Nobody would have ever thought that's possible, but levitation by electromagnets and other technologies are no impossibility anymore. I have just got the feeling that bitcoin could at least be similar to the wheel in terms of its significance as an innovation and its relevance and longevity. It is groundbreaking technology, not only an upgrade to something.
But at the end of the day, via satellites bitcoin could be used in the entire universe even as a multi-planetary species. Interesting idea I gotta say!
There still seem to be limitations regarding the ability to move information, so we can have our various imaginations regarding bitcoin in space - while some of the on the earth practicalities seem a lot more concrete - even though we might not be able to rule out various kinds of unexpected advances that could end up changing how we consider if there might actually be real applications that go beyond this particular planet.. so I personally don't spend too much time thinking about those kinds of BIGGER brained ideas that I have difficulties recognizing in terms of what I perceive to be more concrete real world applications.
Makes sense, and it is not like I would spend all day with these futuristic scenarios. Sometimes it just results from the talks we have here.
@Agbe how did you "lose" coins on a centralized exchange that needed to be refunded? Have you been hacked? Or why would the centralized exchange have to refund lost coins? If it was the access to your account, it all comes down to whether or not it was an exchange you have provided KYC to or whether you can prove the identity tied to the email address you used to sign up at the exchange. I am bit confused because losing coins that have to be refunded on an exchange is usually a case when the exchange is to blame for a hack. Otherwise it makes little sense.
I think you can get more information on what happened to me in this link.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5500004.0 read all the links so that will understand the missed coins. And to recap it all. I bought bitcoin from someone through p2p which I normally do, and send them to Kucoin but when I wanted to sell it I transferred them to ByBit which I didn't include the memo tag
and the coins were lost so I have to battle with the two exchanges until finally it was Kucoin refunded back the coins to me although ByBit also refunded them to Kucoin and in return Kucoin also did their part. But I pay a service fee and the matter was resolved.
Your coins were not lost in the same sense that we are using the term in this thread. Between Kucoin, ByBit and you, there seemed to have been some confusion regarding who had the coins.. so yeah you sent them and the coins were moved, and between the two exchanges they also had to figure out who had the coins, but they were never lost...
Now if one or the other exchange had lost the coins or sent the coins to a burner address or some other way of losing the keys, then the coins had the potential of actually being lost, but in your case they were not lost... just had gone missing (seemingly temporarily) with some potential lack of clarity (at least from you) regarding where the coins/keys were, and perhaps the exchanges knew where the coins were, but there seemed to have had been some automation of their coin processing systems involved and perhaps there were some needs for personal intervention to figure out where the keys (coins) were.. but the mere fact that you did not know or you could not figure out where the coins were, did not necessarily mean that one or the other exchanges did not know where the coins/keys were, even if Kucoin required you to start an investigation (and to pay them $40 USDT) in order to supposedly investigate into the matter.
Your coins were not lost in the same sense that we are using the term in this thread.
Exactly. Some years ago I have had a similar issue with some shitcoins when I deposited BNB to an ETH network deposit address or something. I can't recall exactly what it was, and the exchange first told me they didn't have the keys, which is bullshit as it is the same key for both the ETH and BNB network. At first they tried to let me hanging by telling me some absolutely ridiculous story about how keys work for ETH and BNB, and once they realized they won't get rid of me, they asked for an astronomical fee to send the BNB back. The fee was higher than the amount that was at risk. Ever since I am avoiding all of these shitty exchanges. That's why I am positively surprised that Kucoin solved that problem. It's usually not quite their conduct.
