Where do we draw a line? Signature campaigns or shilling campaigns

[Fivestar4everMVP]

If someone joins the campaign, isn't it to be expected that he will first be interested in the service he is going to promote? at least to know what they are promoting

I only promote things I like, but I get that most people don't care. And you can't even blame them: any advertising company doesn't care, and is totally fine taking offers from competitors.

I think people don't have to "like" the company that is paying them, but they need to respect it.

If you work for a company and go on social media talking shit about it you will probably get fired.
This is almost the same.

And what really has value is this forum, not the users who rent their signature.  Just go to altcoinstalks and see how much they will pay for the same posters signature.  So the manager can just hire someone else with more respect for the company.

I completely agree with you, this has happened with someone I know offline, after he graduated  from school and was in youth service which lasts for one year here in my country, he from time to time posted a couple of tweets on X, bashing and criticizing a telecom company, always accusing them of providing poor services to their customers, and on several occasions, he called the company managers thieves.

After his youth service was over, he started job hunting, he applied for job in several companies that had job openings, and funny enough, that telecom company he bashed and criticized on X was one of the companies he sent his documents to, that company turned out to be the only company that later invited him for an interview, but immediately he enter the HR office, and the HR seeing and recognizing him through his profile Pic on X, his document was thrown back at him and he was immediately disqualified and banned from ever applying for job in that company and it's subsidiaries.

Coming back to this forum, it takes nothing to give respect to the company that is paying us for our signatures spaces, even though it's not mandatory, it's something that is morally right to do.

[1714465070]

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[examplens]

And what really has value is this forum, not the users who rent their signature.  Just go to altcoinstalks and see how much they will pay for the same posters signature.  So the manager can just hire someone else with more respect for the company.

It is still quite important.
If users wearing signatures do not bring a positive impact to the company/service they represent, owners will certainly close the campaign with full rights. I will repeat, signature payments are not some money in the pile that we just need to take. It is someone's investment in promotion.

..cut

Speaking of examples, imagine a football club that has signed a sponsorship contract with Adidas, and then one player goes out on the field wearing Nike football boots.

[notblox1]

Speaking of examples, imagine a football club that has signed a sponsorship contract with Adidas, and then one player goes out on the field wearing Nike football boots.

You are wrong and this is happening all the time, but you are clearly not carefully watching football matches  
Every player can choose any boots they like most and make individual deal, club sponsorship is only for shirts and kits.

I will give you one example for match Real Madrid vs Girona, with club Real Madrid having Adidas kits sponsorship, and Rodrygo wears Nike Phantom GX SE boots.
Here is highlights of this match: https://youtu.be/AcgDUg4jIh0
And here is Rodrygo boots: https://www.footballbootsdb.com/player/Rodrygo/77572/

Debunk completed.

[icopress]

Quoted for reference.

If icopress is made a merit source, you can be very sure that merit distribution will be biased [...]

That aside, it seems like bad business to go about things the way that Wasabi and icopress have [...]

We should not be entertaining icopress's behaviour if we want to preserve integrity here in this forum [...]

See this thread where a member got kicked from their campaign just for recommending another wallet instead of the wallet that was being advertised in their signature. [...]

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

Speaking of examples, imagine a football club that has signed a sponsorship contract with Adidas, and then one player goes out on the field wearing Nike football boots.

You are wrong and this is happening all the time, but you are clearly not carefully watching football matches  
Every player can choose any boots they like most and make individual deal, club sponsorship is only for shirts and kits.

You really don't need to embarrass him 😂
examplens's example was not appropriate that's all but it was a good try. If the example was about an individual player sponsorship then it would be more appropriate however individual sponsorship also does not require you to wear their apparels when you are not in official tour or events.
In casual life you are free to use anything you like.

[BenCodie]

Quoted for reference.

If icopress is made a merit source, you can be very sure that merit distribution will be biased [...]

That aside, it seems like bad business to go about things the way that Wasabi and icopress have [...]

We should not be entertaining icopress's behaviour if we want to preserve integrity here in this forum [...]

See this thread where a member got kicked from their campaign just for recommending another wallet instead of the wallet that was being advertised in their signature. [...]

That was a really cute neutral feedback you just left  . Birth of another troll? Malicious slander? Laughable comments...and the fact is that if it were true, the feedback would be red...and if you left a red, the reliability of your trust would be in question because the fact is that my comments are based on true & recent events.

I could not care less about your neutral feedback, and I stick by my honest comments and opinions. It is 100% true that you have demonstrated to have served advertisers more than you serve the best interests of the community, and becauss of that, you do not deserve to be a merit source in my opinion.

[LoyceV]

Speaking of examples, imagine a football club that has signed a sponsorship contract with Adidas, and then one player goes out on the field wearing Nike football boots.

A much better example would be a football club sponsored by Coca-Cola, and the football player puts their bottle away during an interview
But since there is no bad publicity, this got them much more attention and thus brand exposure than they would have gotten any other way.

[KingsDen]

More than 70% of the people that promotes different projects here do not test the projects and neither do they even visit the website.

Um....can I ask where you got that very specific statistic from?  I've no clue what the percentage is of member who have nothing to do with whatever they're promoting, but I'm guessing it's probably high and perhaps even near 70% but I'm curious as to where you pulled that number from.

LOL. I didn't know I was so specific. There's actually no data to back my claim but I guess probably high and even upto the aforesaid 70%

If you go to the gambling section which I believe you frequent because of the casino you promote, you will see many users on casino signatures but know nothing about gambling and probably do not even gamble.

I was doing a lot of post reviews in the gambling section before I made the decision to exclude that section from any future reviews, but honestly most of the posts I looked at were made by members who at least seemed to know about gambling, and quite a few of them seemed passionate about sports betting in particular.  Granted, I did not look at any other posts aside from those from the members who'd requested reviews, so my perception is probably very skewed.  One of the reasons I don't even consider joining a gambling-based sig campaign is because I don't gamble and any posts I would make in that section would be pure crap.

On the other hand, I have posted a few times when the topic of gambling addiction has come up because that interests me and I know a little bit about how harsh the consequences are and how brutally difficult it is to stop gambling.  Anyway.

Things have really changed in the gambling section these days. I made a post about stake campaign just above discussing same thing. Years ago when I was promoting Rollbit, there were many shit posts about sports betting. Some users do not even have a clue about the football clubs involved and the countries or leagues they belong. They will just read earlier few posts and generate a random reply from what has been said already. These days things have changed, which means the campaign managers have made some special kind of rules to combat spam. Also, even if I am not a Jollygood fan, I think he did some job to combat spammers, especially those that predicts match that has already been played and decided 

Speaking of examples, imagine a football club that has signed a sponsorship contract with Adidas, and then one player goes out on the field wearing Nike football boots.

A much better example would be a football club sponsored by Coca-Cola, and the football player puts their bottle away during an interview
But since there is no bad publicity, this got them much more attention and thus brand exposure than they would have gotten any other way.

Live example you gave. Ronaldo did it and it did cost coca cola.

[Saheedu]

Fun fact: @pawel7777 has never made a single reply in a thread that they created, if it was from a newbie others would have already tagged him as a troll.

[icopress]

That was a really cute neutral feedback you just left  . Birth of another troll? Malicious slander? Laughable comments...and the fact is that if it were true, the feedback would be red...and if you left a red, the reliability of your trust would be in question because the fact is that my comments are based on true & recent events. [..]

You are right, this tag is really good, because it most accurately describes the situation where you were caught by your tongue. Malicious slander differs from ordinary lies in that in the first case you go around the forum and spread lies in threads that have nothing to do with the original discussion, lies that can easily be refuted by the available facts. But the tag will definitely change to red if you do this systematically.

Btw, the funny thing is that you lie even about the fact that you didn’t lie.

Therefore, I decided to pay you $1000 in bitcoins if you name the person who was removed from the campaign for the reason you refer to. But if this person says that this is a lie, then you undertake not to participate in any campaign for the next three months. I think this is an excellent agreement considering that you only need to give a “name” to back up your words. Then the next time you want to soak me in shit you will have more arguments.

See this thread where a member got kicked from their campaign just for recommending another wallet instead of the wallet that was being advertised in their signature. [...]

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

Speaking of examples, imagine a football club that has signed a sponsorship contract with Adidas, and then one player goes out on the field wearing Nike football boots.

A much better example would be a football club sponsored by Coca-Cola, and the football player puts their bottle away during an interview
But since there is no bad publicity, this got them much more attention and thus brand exposure than they would have gotten any other way.

I did not follow it until the end. Did CR7 received any punishment for it?
Speaking about publicity, this thread also gave some brand exposure to Wasabi 😂
There is a saying I think, good or bad, always stay in the mind.

You are right, this tag is really good

Saw the neutral feedback you left. I seems he was sarcastic and the rag no way is right, it is a bad use of feedback system. Even though it is neutral, I don't think anyone will care about it but you made it easy for others to realize that he was right about saying if you are granted as a merit source you will use it to influence your business.

He was also not wrong when saying you and Wasabi is having a bad business, at least you are giving them the platform to entertain the community with their fraudulent mindset and cheating their clients behind the slogan of non custodial open source wallet.

[icopress]

Saw the neutral feedback you left. I seems he was sarcastic and the rag no way is right, it is a bad use of feedback system. Even though it is neutral, I don't think anyone will care about it but you made it easy for others to realize that he was right about saying if you are granted as a merit source you will use it to influence your business.their fraudulent mindset and cheating their clients behind the slogan of non custodial open source wallet.

His personal position regarding the merit source has nothing to do with what I wrote in the tag and in the post above.

[..] and cheating their clients behind the slogan of non custodial open source wallet.

If you provide convincing facts on this matter, I will immediately change the advertising slogan.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

Saw the neutral feedback you left. I seems he was sarcastic and the rag no way is right, it is a bad use of feedback system. Even though it is neutral, I don't think anyone will care about it but you made it easy for others to realize that he was right about saying if you are granted as a merit source you will use it to influence your business.their fraudulent mindset and cheating their clients behind the slogan of non custodial open source wallet.

His personal position regarding the merit source has nothing to do with what I wrote in the tag and in the post above.

I hope you are right but when one of the four quotes is about the negative vote for merit source and it was quoted before other three then it creates a doubt.

[..] and cheating their clients behind the slogan of non custodial open source wallet.

If you provide convincing facts on this matter, I will immediately change the advertising slogan.

You made me surprised. So you have not read anything that was happening in LEO's farewell thread and even before the farewell thread. Not even the topic I created? Or you are still convincing others that it's all about Kruw and his recent mental disorder. The other things do not matter?

[icopress]

I hope you are right but when one of the four quotes is about the negative vote for merit source and it was quoted before other three then it creates a doubt.

This quote was added for reference because after his applications to participate were rejected several times, he apparently took it as a personal insult. And he began to attack, creating FUD within a short period of time. The user then added to this the spread of slander (which was the main reason for the tag).

It is this position that is reflected in the tag, since there is a significant difference between when someone expresses their critical position (for example what pawel7777 touched on in this thread... or m2017's objections in the application thread) and when the user has malicious goals.

I can already say that he will soon come to this thread with a statement that he does not need this 1000 dollars. But everything is much simpler... lies cannot be supported by facts.

[..] and cheating their clients behind the slogan of non custodial open source wallet.

If you provide convincing facts on this matter, I will immediately change the advertising slogan.

You made me surprised. So you have not read anything that was happening in LEO's farewell thread and even before the farewell thread. Not even the topic I created? Or you are still convincing others that it's all about Kruw and his recent mental disorder. The other things do not matter?

I know about this drama, but it has nothing to do with the technical component you are referring to (for some obvious reasons, I also decided not to create a Wasabi discussion thread).

[BenCodie]

I hope you are right but when one of the four quotes is about the negative vote for merit source and it was quoted before other three then it creates a doubt.

This quote was added for reference because after his applications to participate were rejected several times, he apparently took it as a personal insult. And he began to attack, creating FUD within a short period of time. The user then added to this the spread of slander (which was the main reason for the tag).

It is this position that is reflected in the tag, since there is a significant difference between when someone expresses their critical position (for example what pawel7777 touched on in this thread... or m2017's objections in the application thread) and when the user has malicious goals.

I can already say that he will soon come to this thread with a statement that he does not need this 1000 dollars. But everything is much simpler... lies cannot be supported by facts.

Excuse me, can you please quote the last time that I applied for a campaign of yours? Can you please also provide proof that I apparently started attacking you "a short period of time" after not being accepted into one of your campaigns?

I am going to address this very clearly.

You need to provide proof. This is definitely a false accusation. I can't even remember the last time I applied to one of your campaigns and if I did, I certainly would not be upset to not get accepted. This is not at all a part of my nature and it never has been for the entire time I've existed on this forum. It's a baseless accusation that can not be proven whatsoever.

What I am saying has absolutely nothing to do with being in your campaigns. I was last a member of mixtum campaign, and I think after that I maybe applied to one or two of your campaigns. To say that my opinions are based off of not being accepted into your campaigns is an outright lie. I have never complained about not being accepted into a signature campaign and I have never been ungrateful about signature campaigns. I appreciate when I am accepted and understand there are more qualified members when I am not accepted.

The truth about the basis of my comments against you is that you have behaved inappropriately and displayed that you care more about your advertising/business interests than the community.
1. You continued to promote the BC.Game campaign even while there were many open accusations. You only stopped that campaign once they stopped filling your wallet. Unlike Royse777, who will pause a campaign until any open dispute is resolved, and who is therefore acting in the interests of not just the advertiser but also in the interests of the community.
2. Leo said a lot of valid facts about Wasabi that have proven they are potentially risky to deal with, and yet you have completely ignored this and you still work with them, proving that you care less about Leo's findings and more about the money that wasabi give you.
3. After the thread by pawel7777, you have shown that you care more about the desires of Wasabi and its campaign than the freedom of opinion that users should have whether they have a signature or not.

Let's not mention Betnomi and your involvement with acting in their interests all the way until it was plain as day obvious that they scammed their players en mass as well?

The above are 3-4 reasons for my opinions about you which have been compiling over time. I have never spoken badly about a campaign manager for not accepting me into a campaign. This is downright absurd and anyone who has been reviewing my posts and existence here would surely know that this is an outright false accusation. Using this as an excuse for your actions which lead to my comments is a cheap way out, and I hope you get called out for it by another member as well.

[icopress]

Use ninjastic.space and see how many times you have applied. I don't care much about this, but I can't find any other reasonable explanation for why you are deliberately spreading slander. In any case, this whole dialogue no longer makes any sense because you wrote such a long post, but did not bother to say “one” main word.

Therefore, I decided to pay you $1000 in bitcoins if you name the person who was removed from the campaign for the reason you refer to. But if this person says that this is a lie, then you undertake not to participate in any campaign for the next three months. I think this is an excellent agreement considering that you only need to give a “name” to back up your words. Then the next time you want to soak me in shit you will have more arguments.

[BenCodie]

Use ninjastic.space and see how many times you have applied. I don't care much about this, but I can't find any other reasonable explanation for why you are deliberately spreading slander. In any case, this whole dialogue no longer makes any sense because you wrote such a long post, but did not bother to say “one” main word.

Therefore, I decided to pay you $1000 in bitcoins if you name the person who was removed from the campaign for the reason you refer to. But if this person says that this is a lie, then you undertake not to participate in any campaign for the next three months. I think this is an excellent agreement considering that you only need to give a “name” to back up your words. Then the next time you want to soak me in shit you will have more arguments.

Go and get how many times ive applied to your campaigns yourself. I already know myself how many times I have applied to your campaigns in the last 3-6 months, it is less than the fingers I have on one of my hands. This, again, is irrelevant to my comments and I have explained further for you below.

As for your other comment, I will correct it, to "members are threatened to be kicked" instead of "a member got kicked" as I misunderstood that pawel7777 got kicked originally, which I said in that thread already.

Is that what this your feedback was all about? I didn't even notice that until you quoted your post about the $1000 btc right now.

Aside from that singular misunderstanding, everything else is a legitimate and honest opinion that is motivated none other than your actions lately.

Saw the neutral feedback you left. I seems he was sarcastic and the rag no way is right, it is a bad use of feedback system. Even though it is neutral, I don't think anyone will care about it but you made it easy for others to realize that he was right about saying if you are granted as a merit source you will use it to influence your business.their fraudulent mindset and cheating their clients behind the slogan of non custodial open source wallet.

His personal position regarding the merit source has nothing to do with what I wrote in the tag and in the post above.

This is partially untrue as you directly quote the post I made in your merit source thread, in the reference post that you used for the first feedback:

Quoted for reference.

If icopress is made a merit source, you can be very sure that merit distribution will be biased [...]

That aside, it seems like bad business to go about things the way that Wasabi and icopress have [...]

We should not be entertaining icopress's behaviour if we want to preserve integrity here in this forum [...]

See this thread where a member got kicked from their campaign just for recommending another wallet instead of the wallet that was being advertised in their signature. [...]

The other 3 comments are very legitimate comments, aside from a slight miswording in the last quote, which says a member got kicked when it should be that you said you will kick anyone who recommends another wallet while wearing wasabi's signature.

Quoted for reference.

That aside, it seems like bad business to go about things the way that Wasabi and icopress have [...]

1. To kick a member from a campaign because they recommended another wallet instead of what was in their signature is saying that signatures should influence speech, otherwise they should not be in the campaign. Not only is that wrong, it's bad business, and if anyone reads that post, I suggested better business right after it:

That aside, it seems like bad business to go about things the way that Wasabi and icopress have. I'd say a business would be better off respecting honest consumer/publisher opinions and instead being constructive by asking "We see you recommended Sparrow rather than Wasabi, so that we can improve to change that opinion in the future, tell us what made you recommend Sparrow over Wasabi?" instead of punishing honesty. I think that is a much better way to interact and build a relationship with a user (or publisher) and gain value from them, rather than breaking that relationship and taking somewhat of an aggressive approach.

It's funny that my post was made as a bad one, when it was actually very constructive. Kicking a member for recommending another wallet is bad business, in comparison to the following example I gave, which is undeniably a better way to do business.

2. We should not be entertaining point 1. as if we do, we will have rampant manipulated speech and fake user experiences when it comes to discussions that relate to services being advertised by signature campaigns. False reviews/purposeful shilling for advertisers = not good for the integrity of the forum. It's plain and simple:

Quoted for reference.

We should not be entertaining icopress's behaviour if we want to preserve integrity here in this forum [...]

[/quote]

3. There us nothing wrong with me highlighting that a member can get kicked for recommending another wallet over what was in their signature as per icopress' actions. I again admit, that this should be reworded to "members can be kicked" instead of "a member was kicked", and I will do that as I see my mistake on that part. Though that is all that I will change.

Quoted for reference.

See this thread where a member got kicked from their campaign just for recommending another wallet instead of the wallet that was being advertised in their signature. [...]

[/quote]

[WhyFhy]

Speaking of examples, imagine a football club that has signed a sponsorship contract with Adidas, and then one player goes out on the field wearing Nike football boots.

A much better example would be a football club sponsored by Coca-Cola, and the football player puts their bottle away during an interview
But since there is no bad publicity, this got them much more attention and thus brand exposure than they would have gotten any other way.

They say there's no such thing as bad press.
-
I get why people post for coin but financial incentives can really degrade post quality from most (but not all) users here.

I think some definitions to a "quality" poster should have a good merit to post ratio while participating in these campaigns, character count and post count shouldn't be the defining metric of your payouts. But since it is, majority would/should be considered "shilling campaigns"

At the same time , a lot of post are skipped on merit.
I treat merit as a Like, acknowledgement, or a genuine article with merit post. 
Enforcing merit on campaigns could lead to more merit cycling so there is definitely pros and cons to a merit approach.

I saw some quality posters apply for campaigns this last week that seem to have been skipped in favor of lesser known individuals, I think campaign managers could hire enforcers, like a %100 bonus to an enforcer that identifies shit posters in each campaign , especially campaign managers running 2-3+ campaigns.

This would lighten the load of the manager and potentially save the manager/campaign money and increase post quality. 

My 2 Satoshi fwiw

[examplens]

You are wrong and this is happening all the time, but you are clearly not carefully watching football matches  
Every player can choose any boots they like most and make individual deal, club sponsorship is only for shirts and kits.

You really don't need to embarrass him 😂
examplens's example was not appropriate that's all but it was a good try. If the example was about an individual player sponsorship then it would be more appropriate however individual sponsorship also does not require you to wear their apparels when you are not in official tour or events.
In casual life you are free to use anything you like.

You get the point of the example, not football boots under the contract, but the jerseys are.
Here I will give you a direct example when we are already talking about large sponsorship contracts in sports. 2008, Wimbledon, Novak Djokovic was then under contract with Adidas, but their sneakers were too slippery. Later it came out in Nike, but with the logo covered. Maybe it was all part of the agreed marketing, but he still covered the competitor's logo to avoid being kicked out of the signature campaign, a violation of the active contract.
https://www.cnbc.com/id/25346774

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

You get the point of the example, not football boots under the contract, but the jerseys are.
Here I will give you a direct example when we are already talking about large sponsorship contracts in sports. 2008, Wimbledon, Novak Djokovic was then under contract with Adidas, but their sneakers were too slippery. Later it came out in Nike, but with the logo covered. Maybe it was all part of the agreed marketing, but he still covered the competitor's logo to avoid being kicked out of the signature campaign, a violation of the active contract.
https://www.cnbc.com/id/25346774

One thing is clear from it. Nike is a better product than Adidas.