Satoshi - Sirius emails 2009-2011

[MoneroModel]

Satoshi - Sirius emails 2009-2011
https://mmalmi.github.io/satoshi/

This is the correspondence between myself (Martti Malmi, AKA Sirius) and Satoshi Nakamoto, the creator of Bitcoin.

I did not feel comfortable sharing private correspondence earlier, but decided to do so for an important trial in the UK in 2024 where I was a witness. Also, a long time has passed now since the emails were sent.

The archive is incomplete and contains only emails from my address @cc.hut.fi. My university email addresses changed to @aalto.fi in early 2011, and I don't have backups of those emails.

There are some passwords and a street address mentioned in the emails, but those are no longer valid or relevant.

[1714312789]

1714312789

[1714312789]

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[1714312789]

1714312789

[theymos]

Skimming through those makes me so nostalgic...

Next time somebody complains about the version of SMF on bitcointalk.org, I have a great excuse!

Hopefully the 1.1.x line is mature and updates are infrequent.  We
shouldn't upgrade to 2.0.  I made a ton of customisations that wouldn't
be compatible, and I kind of prefer the look of 1.1 over 2.0 anyway.

[Darker45]

Thanks for this. Another set of reading for my vacant time.

Anyway, I'm a little bit surprised to know that despite the popular belief that Satoshi Nakamoto disappeared since December 12, 2010, these emails are saying it isn't true. Satoshi actually continued to respond to emails even in 2011. The last email coming from Satoshi in this compilation alone was already in February of 2011. And there must probably be more. God knows who else Satoshi corresponded with away from the public.

It seems there's still a lot more to uncover. This appears to be the silver lining of all these lawsuits initiated by the clown CSW.

[MoneroModel]

Thanks for this. Another set of reading for my vacant time.

Anyway, I'm a little bit surprised to know that despite the popular belief that Satoshi Nakamoto disappeared since December 12, 2010, these emails are saying it isn't true. Satoshi actually continued to respond to emails even in 2011. The last email coming from Satoshi in this compilation alone was already in February of 2011. And there must probably be more. God knows who else Satoshi corresponded with away from the public.

It seems there's still a lot more to uncover. This appears to be the silver lining of all these lawsuits initiated by the clown CSW.

Thank you for mentioning that, Darker45 - I also noticed the dates and was also quite surprised. However, I initially thought maybe there was something I didn't know (and I know for sure that I don't know a lot!). I agree that these ongoing lawsuits bring up new information that can help us better understand the history and the people involved - it's a silver lining, as you mentioned, in an otherwise contentious situation.

[Kruw]

This quote is very interesting:

It would help if there was something for people to use it for.  We need an application to bootstrap it.  Any ideas?

There are donors I can tap if we come up with something that needs funding, but they want to be anonymous, which makes it hard to actually do anything with it.

Did these anonymous 'donors' know Satoshi's true identity since they seem to be open to trusting him with funding?

[pinggoki]

Skimming through those makes me so nostalgic...

Next time somebody complains about the version of SMF on bitcointalk.org, I have a great excuse!

Hopefully the 1.1.x line is mature and updates are infrequent.  We
shouldn't upgrade to 2.0.  I made a ton of customisations that wouldn't
be compatible, and I kind of prefer the look of 1.1 over 2.0 anyway.

If it's from the boss himself that says this then there's no other way around but to follow his wishes. I have a question, does it still count as not violating Satoshi's wish if it goes 1.2.x or 1.x.x? Because in a way, it's still version 1 right?

[MoneroModel]

Just started diving into this historical correspondence between Martti Malmi and Satoshi. The first thing that caught my eye was the forum name anti-state.com! It highlights the anti-state sentiments behind Bitcoin's origins. Almost having FOMO of being born in the wrong place and wrong time...

I'm Trickstern from the anti-state.com forum, and I would like to help with Bitcoin, if there's something I can do.

[nutildah]

Skimming through those makes me so nostalgic...

Next time somebody complains about the version of SMF on bitcointalk.org, I have a great excuse!

Hopefully the 1.1.x line is mature and updates are infrequent.  We
shouldn't upgrade to 2.0.  I made a ton of customisations that wouldn't
be compatible, and I kind of prefer the look of 1.1 over 2.0 anyway.

Frankly theymos I hope the look of the forum never changes. I can't help but think when people come here to read satoshi's old posts, they want to read them exactly the way they looked when he posted them.

Might be kind of weird or off-putting to see historical posts in a different, "modern" format.

[Lucius]

Anyway, I'm a little bit surprised to know that despite the popular belief that Satoshi Nakamoto disappeared since December 12, 2010, these emails are saying it isn't true. Satoshi actually continued to respond to emails even in 2011. The last email coming from Satoshi in this compilation alone was already in February of 2011. And there must probably be more. God knows who else Satoshi corresponded with away from the public.

It's no secret that Satoshi continued to communicate privately with some people long after he left the forum, and the alleged last communication happened on April 26, 2011, at least according to Andresen. Perhaps the time has finally come for all private e-mails that do not threaten Satoshi's privacy to be finally published - and for those who collaborated with him to once again contribute to the truth about Bitcoin.

The alleged final break between Satoshi and his collaborators would come on April 26, 2011.

According to records from Andresen, Satoshi sent him an email that day in which he asked him to downplay the idea he was a “mysterious shadowy figure,” at the time adopting a short and reproachful tone to the project’s new “technical lead.”**

"The press just turns that into a pirate currency angle. Maybe instead make it about the open source project and give more credit to your contributors; it helps motivate them,” Satoshi wrote.

This was followed by a separate message that contained only a copy of the cryptographic key to Bitcoin’s alert system, one that effectively gave Andresen sole control over security notifications.

In response, Andresen would acknowledge the advice, but he quickly moved to more pressing matters, informing Satoshi about his intentions to attend an “annual conference on emerging technologies for US intelligence.”**

@theymos, you once mentioned the possibility that private forum messages belonging to Satoshi will one day be published, is there any chance of that happening now or in the near future?

[okae]

Skimming through those makes me so nostalgic...

I can feel you, but that spirit will never died, we are still here...

Next time somebody complains about the version of SMF on bitcointalk.org, I have a great excuse!

Hopefully the 1.1.x line is mature and updates are infrequent.  We
shouldn't upgrade to 2.0.  I made a ton of customisations that wouldn't
be compatible, and I kind of prefer the look of 1.1 over 2.0 anyway.

I can understand that there is people who don't like it, but for me it looks good as it is, i like so much this forum style, pretty simple and clean and everything works as expected, keep it like it is forever!!! 

[DooMAD]

@theymos, you once mentioned the possibility that private forum messages belonging to Satoshi will one day be published, is there any chance of that happening now or in the near future?

I can see why people are interested, but I worry that the more information that gets released, the more likely someone is going to fit the pieces together and establish an identity.

While I choose not to publicly speculate about Satoshi's identity anymore, reading these emails is certainly causing my to reconsider my privately-held theories.  And there's a strong likelihood that hundreds of other people have invested far more time and consideration into pondering this mystery than I have.  There's no way of knowing how close someone might be or what new clue might finally solve it for someone.


Ooh, is 'Email #100' referring to that mysterious 2nd ever forum account that nowadays "does not exist"?

[nakamura12]

I can see why people are interested, but I worry that the more information that gets released, the more likely someone is going to fit the pieces together and establish an identity.

It is possible that someone may be able to establish an identity but it is also possible that it won't happen if the information doesn't contain anything that can make it possible. If it ever did and an email name may have linked to a name but I think it would be useless if the email itself is no longer existed that means people can only search other platform and the results may be the same as other without a connection to it like what happened on 2014 about a man dorian satoshi nakamoto (which he denied that he is satoshi nakamoto the founder of Bitcoin). Who knows what will happen in the future.

[Upgrade00]

@theymos, you once mentioned the possibility that private forum messages belonging to Satoshi will one day be published, is there any chance of that happening now or in the near future?

The initial comment from theymos was that he possibly would release those messages in 8 years, which would have been 2021, but later on theymos confirmed he would not be releasing those messages afterall, maybe in 50 years now;

I've rethought this, and I won't be releasing the PMs in 2021. I'm convinced that nobody will ever identify Satoshi no matter what info comes out, so I'm not worried about that, but I am concerned about the privacy of those who communicated with him. For example, kiba once said that he tried to send a gift to Satoshi, but Satoshi declined (reportedly saying something like "I already have plenty of BTC"). If the PMs for this exchange exist in the database and hypothetically look like this:

kiba: Hey, I know it's worth peanuts, but do you want a gift of 10k BTC?
satoshi: lol, no thanks scrub

Then it would put a big target on kiba's back. (This is only a hypothetical example: in reality, kiba never published the amount he offered Satoshi, if any amount was even specified.) Even if I screened the PMs in advance for obvious stuff like this, it's impossible to find everything. Eg. maybe someone who talked to Satoshi was trying to be anonymous, but people are able to find him just based on his writing style or knowledge.

I do think that there could be historically-relevant info in there, so maybe if Bitcoin has taken over the world in like 50 years and historians are clamoring to know more about its history, I or my successors could be convinced to revisit the issue. Or maybe not; don't get your hopes up. (I still haven't read the PMs, BTW; maybe they're all really boring.)

[apogio]

So basically Sirius was a CS student back then and Satoshi, seeing that Sirius was talented, decided to let him do the website and the FAQ? Doesn't it look very easy on Satoshi's behalf? I mean, obviously Sirius is a well established dev nowadays, but back then, it looked like Satoshi trusted him very easily. I would never dare judging this decision, but I mean Satoshi must had been very capable of identifying talented devs.

[Forever101]

Satoshi is full of wisdom, am still thinking how he manage to understand that they will look for him one day. He is truly the epitome of genius, he is so talented that, he no one could trace him.

With all the effort put in place for years to know who he is, I must conclude that , it is impossible to figure it out anymore. It maybe possible that he is also discussing with us here.  I respect his kind of person. So humble enough to hide his identity.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Ooh, is 'Email #100' referring to that mysterious 2nd ever forum account that nowadays "does not exist"?

I don't think so... Sounds strange for a forum account to have "permissions". Usually, OS users have that, and since it's talking about ssh and Linux, chances are it's a user in the server that was hosting bitcoin.org. Then, in email #103, you can see Satoshi used that to install a file manager:

Thanks, that worked, I got File Manager installed with SSH.  I also uploaded a few themes into Drupal.  I haven't thoroughly gone through all the available themes yet.

Reading new Satoshi messages gives me chills. I thought every important email discussion was disclosed already.

So basically Sirius was a CS student back then and Satoshi, seeing that Sirius was talented, decided to let him do the website and the FAQ?

As I perceive it, Satoshi saw a young man who was thirsty for programming. He must have respected how Sirius recognized Bitcoin from the very beginning. I remember that most people were a little doubtful at first, looking at the mailing lists, forums. That wasn't the case with young Sirius.


So, as it appears out, Sirius was registered under the pseudonym "Trickstern" in an old, anarchist forum called "anti-state.com". Oh boy, conspiracy theories on Satoshi's identity will continue.

[LeezHamilton]

Ooh, is 'Email #100' referring to that mysterious 2nd ever forum account that nowadays "does not exist"?

I don't think so... Sounds strange for a forum account to have "permissions". Usually, OS users have that, and since it's talking about ssh and Linux, chances are it's a user in the server that was hosting bitcoin.org. Then, in email #103, you can see Satoshi used that to install a file manager:

Thanks, that worked, I got File Manager installed with SSH.  I also uploaded a few themes into Drupal.  I haven't thoroughly gone through all the available themes yet.

Reading new Satoshi messages gives me chills. I thought every important email discussion was disclosed already.

So basically Sirius was a CS student back then and Satoshi, seeing that Sirius was talented, decided to let him do the website and the FAQ?

As I perceive it, Satoshi saw a young man who was thirsty for programming. He must have respected how Sirius recognized Bitcoin from the very beginning. I remember that most people were a little doubtful at first, looking at the mailing lists, forums. That wasn't the case with young Sirius.


So, as it appears out, Sirius was registered under the pseudonym "Trickstern" in an old, anarchist forum called "anti-state.com". Oh boy, conspiracy theories on Satoshi's identity will continue.

 Hi,

Do you know what has happened to that,   old anarchist forum called "anti-state.com ?

Were you a member there  ?  I was looking for that forum for the last 10 years.  Any information ?  Thanks.

[dkbit98]

Satoshi - Sirius emails 2009-2011
https://mmalmi.github.io/satoshi/

Amazing read, and he is not sounding so academic like in public, but he is just one of us

I know this sounds really retarded...

It's also interesting to read his thinking about the word anonymous and why it was later removed from Bitcoin.
Anonymous sounded a bit shady to him.

I think we should de-emphasize the anonymous angle.  With the popularity
of bitcoin addresses instead of sending by IP, we can't give the
impression it's automatically anonymous.  It's possible to be
pseudonymous, but you have to be careful.  If someone digs through the
transaction history and starts exposing information people thought was
anonymous, the backlash will be much worse if we haven't prepared
expectations by warning in advance that you have to take precautions if
you really want to make that work.  Like Tor says, "Tor does not
magically encrypt all of your Internet activities.  Understand what Tor
does and does not do for you."

Also, anonymous sounds a bit shady.  I think the people who want
anonymous will still figure it out without us trumpeting it.

I made some changes to the bitcoin.org homepage.  It's not really
crucial to update the translations.  I tend to keep editing and
correcting for some time afterwards, so if they want to update, they
should wait.

I removed the word "anonymous", and the sentence about "anonymity
means", although you worded it so carefully "...CAN be kept hidden..."
it was a shame to remove it.

[nutildah]

Amazing read, and he is not sounding so academic like in public, but he is just one of us

I know this sounds really retarded...

Satoshi:



Also Satoshi:

[nullama]

Some things that I found interesting after a quick read:

- It took Satoshi about 18 months of work to get to roughly the first version of Bitcoin.

- Satoshi tried to buy bitcoin dot com first, but it was not available since a professional domain speculator bought it first. I wonder how Roger Ver ended up buying the domain, or if Satoshi was referring to him here.

- It appears very clear that he was doing this work by himself, and then started to contact other people, one by one through email, and by groups through email lists. Based on the emails, Bitcoin really doesn't seem to have been created by a group as some people speculate.

- Satoshi mainly used Windows and was not great with Linux, but used MinGW as the main compiler (MinGW provides GCC to Windows, which is a Linux compiler), and only the Microsoft compiler (mentioned as VC) for debugging.

- The use of the word "goofball" makes me think of at least some American heritage.

Amazing read, thanks for this.