Hey Theymos, There Should Be a Demotion Button

[OddJobsForBitcoin]

It can be distressing to new members reading some of the posts from old members who should be knowledgeable but unfortunately bland. The quality of reasoning (and posts)  of many Legendary members is  appalling. This could be due to the fact that they were promoted before the introduction of the merit system or they simply bought a high-ranked account to spew rubbish on the forum.

With the rampancy of signature campaigns, the tendency for participants to type to meet quota (even if they don’t really make sense is high). This is why I think that a demotion (or demerit) button is appropriate. This would mitigate the preponderance of the disappointment in reading posts from some so-ranked Legendary sounding like it’s from a 12-year old.

We even have trolls and spammers who are high-ranked members (Legendary trolls). This means that these chaps have never contributed something meaningful to the community debar having been around for ages. This ought not be so. What impression does it make on new members, especially now that Bitcoin is massively being advertised by big names like Blackrock?

You can implement this by adding a demerit button. If a member can rank up through a thousand merits, they should be demoted through a hundred De-merits. This could be open to members or assigned to moderators. You may also bestow demotion powers to intelligent reputable members like LoyceV, Yahoo62278, Notatether, Moccaccino, Logfiles, Suchmoon and others.

A ranking system should reflect competence, integrity and credibility of those it is bestowed upon. Unfortunately, the BTT system should be stremlined and made balanced through the implementation of necessary trade-offs. A system that promotes but never demotes never gets the best of its men. Let’s make this happen.

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[SamReomo]

This is the worst suggestion I have ever seen. Demotion button, man are you okay? I think the current merit system of the Bitcointalk is the best one we have and there is no need to create something like that. I guess this thread of your shows your mindset regarding the high rank members of the forum.

Those who have reached Legendary rank have devoted most of their time on this forum and they have made many good posts which helped many people. And, now someone out of no where comes here and wants to have a system where those members may get demoted? It's going to cause even more drama and fights, nothing else.

[Zaguru12]

De merit button discussion has been done multiple times here and it still leaves us with the same answer it will definitely suck. I understand your frustration on some spam but how do you want the demerit thing to work, to me it will cause more problems than solving it. The whole merit thing is to credit the post that has quality to them, do want another person ti form and demerit that because he disagrees with another persons opinion, that will look like the person that merit such post doesn’t know what quality means.

If you’re worried about people quality dropping on posting just because they Join a signature then it is the work of the campaign manager himself to kick them out of the campaign.

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

OP, when I came to the forum, I read some comments that said, "The quality of a post is not determined by the rank of members here." Some low-ranking members can actually create more educational- quality threads and comments than some high-ranking members. I feel that even if a demerit system is introduced, it may not completely eradicate low-quality posts, so I am of the opinion that campaign managers should properly access the quality of a member post before they accept members into their campaign. Also, let managers do a re-check on the quality of their campaign participants's posts at least once a month. That can also help to propel low-quality posters into putting in more effort to create a quality post and can also reduce spamming. 

[ololajulo]

i feel the OP did not make his finding very well about this merit. I want to say some of the new acquired legendary come from merit add as a result of member of country group and languages. Many merit has come from other language forum which does make most recent legendary as qualifies as we used to have. Has he find about trust rank that is on everyone's profile; which most people use base on quality of post of the member while they also attach credible evidence to buttress their claim. The forum has a strong punishment for anyone plagiarizing.

[alastantiger]

This is a strange line of thought . I think some of the measures already put in place to curtail these excesses are the "report to moderator" button and the trust system, which includes positive, neutral, and negative ratings. Another measure on an individual level is to write to them directly. However, a demotion or demerit button is not an effective way to deal with it. Instead, you can use the ignore button for those specific users if their comments bother you so much. One other thing you could do is whenever you create a topic, you could self-moderate it by deleting comments that aren't useful or helpful to the conversation, thus keeping it clean and maintaining a meaningful discussion.

[OddJobsForBitcoin]

This is a strange line of thought . I think some of the measures already put in place to curtail these excesses are the "report to moderator" button and the trust system, which includes positive, neutral, and negative ratings. Another measure on an individual level is to write to them directly. However, a demotion or demerit button is not an effective way to deal with it. Instead, you can use the ignore button for those specific users if their comments bother you so much. One other thing you could do is whenever you create a topic, you could self-moderate it by deleting comments that aren't useful or helpful to the conversation, thus keeping it clean and maintaining a meaningful discussion.

Yeah, but the issue is that many new members won't know some of these things and the effect could last a long time.

[Dont Trust Verify]

There is tons of shitposters with Sr. Member+ rank. They are mostly from a few specific countries, which I won’t name, but some of these local boards hand out merits like candy to all their buddies. It is borderline abusing the merit system. There definitely needs to be some improvements. Demerit isn’t the best idea because members with contrarian views often get a lot of hate for challenging certain narratives. It will just be another way to bully and try to silence those with dissenting views.

[nutildah]

The demotion button, as far as it applies to signature campaigns, already exists in the form of negative trust. Quite frequently, a single red trust from a DT member is enough to keep an account out of any type of campaign. Of course it should be given for being untrustworthy and not just a shitposter. There's neutrals for that, and if a campaign manager cares at all about the quality of their campaign, they will take these into consideration as well.

Anyone who has been around here for a year or longer realizes that Legendary status doesn't necessarily mean jack. Many Legendaries achieved their status before the advent of the merit system, are shitposting trolls, and woefully lag in merits. Many more are purchased accounts.

If OP is personally worried about obtaining more merits for themselves, my suggestion would be to just focus on posting from one account instead of trying to juggle a handful of alts.

[Despairo]

Although I like the suggestion in general, but it seems @OP opened this topic because he received a negative feedback from high ranked user.

They are mostly from a few specific countries, which I won’t name, but some of these local boards hand out merits like candy to all their buddies. It is borderline abusing the merit system.

Unfortunately, many people will say it's "sUBjeCtIv3" and we can't do anything if we didn't find their connections with hard evidence.

I think some of the measures already put in place to curtail these excesses are the "report to moderator" button and the trust system, which includes positive, neutral, and negative ratings.

Even you've report the post, there's no guarantee the post will be deleted especially if the post is long.

What's the relation between post quality with positive and negative feedback? it's incorrect to use positive feedback and negative feedback because of qualify post.

Instead, you can use the ignore button for those specific users if their comments bother you so much. One other thing you could do is whenever you create a topic, you could self-moderate it by deleting comments that aren't useful or helpful to the conversation, thus keeping it clean and maintaining a meaningful discussion.

Ignoring them is nothing different to ignoring a problem instead of fixing the problem.

It's not enough, they can still post in other non self moderated thread.

[Poker Player]

Hey theymos, and other members who are unclear about what OddJobsForBitcoin is talking about. He wants to use the demotion button for posts like this in which decodx shows with evidence of blockchain analysis that he has an account farm and sells Bitcointalk accounts.

Although I like the suggestion in general, but it seems @OP opened this topic because he received a negative feedback from high ranked user.

I am clear that it is not that it seems that way, it is that there is a clear cause-effect relationship between one thing and another.

[Odohu]

If you have been paying attention, you will notice that the DT system is already generating so much hates and dividing us as a Bitcoin community instead of uniting. This is because some DT members are being accused of abusing the system and using their powers for their personal vendetta.

Imagine adding a demerit system, that will bring nothing but chaos.  I don't see it helping the forum or contributing in any way.

It can be distressing to new members reading some of the posts from old members who should be knowledgeable but unfortunately bland. The quality of reasoning (and posts)  of many Legendary members is  appalling. This could be due to the fact that they were promoted before the introduction of the merit system or they simply bought a high-ranked account to spew rubbish on the forum.

The forum have rules against spamming and if you notice anyone committing same, kindly use the report button and it will be handled by the admins.

With the rampancy of signature campaigns, the tendency for participants to type to meet quota (even if they don’t really make sense is high). This is why I think that a demotion (or demerit) button is appropriate. This would mitigate the preponderance of the disappointment in reading posts from some so-ranked Legendary sounding like it’s from a 12-year old.

It is up to the campaign managers to decide who is making quality post and who isn't and to remove the later because they have the right and power to do so. Signature campaigns are highly competitive and managers go for those they consider the best to add value to the business they were contracted to promote. I believe anyone still in any campaign meets the expectations of the manager and that should not be your concern.

A ranking system should reflect competence, integrity and credibility of those it is bestowed upon. Unfortunately, the BTT system should be stremlined and made balanced through the implementation of necessary trade-offs. A system that promotes but never demotes never gets the best of its men. Let’s make this happen

Too many rules will eventually kill the forum. I think we already have enough rules already so we don't need new and controversial one like you suggested.

[mk4]

I'm not for this one. I could almost guarantee that the demerit button would also be used when person A disagrees with person B, regardless if the post is spam/bland or not.

I think the current system where people need to earn merit to rank up is sufficient enough. The older accounts that have high amounts of airdropped merits(and little to no received sMerits) are likely to have a very hard time getting into campaigns anyway.

[hugeblack]

Although the proposal is strange, adding the de-Merit option to some members was introduced some time ago, and currently only admin can do this.
If you can prove that there is an urgent need for de-Merit, then your request will be accepted, but this feature will be given to certain accounts.
As for it being available to everyone, this means more drama, which already exists.

[Wapfika]

It can be distressing to new members reading some of the posts from old members who should be knowledgeable but unfortunately bland. The quality of reasoning (and posts)  of many Legendary members is  appalling. This could be due to the fact that they were promoted before the introduction of the merit system or they simply bought a high-ranked account to spew rubbish on the forum.

This is not school or politics that ranks is earn solely through merits. This is a public forum dedicated for discussion anything about Bitcoin. Being an OG user is enough to become legendary due to the time they spend here in the forum. Not all people can be knowledgeable on Bitcoin because we can contribute in different ways here.

I believe you should look on the merit rather than the rank of you want to find a user that really knows  what they are talking. Demoting just because you didn’t like their opinion is nonsense and will make this forum more controlling.

[Upgrade00]

This has been suggested many times in the past, IIRC.

How I have come to view the situation; These members who were here before the merit system and before the forum was 'as popular' are partly the reason there's a forum for newer members to register later on.
I had not heard a thing of Bitcoin in 2010 through to 2016, but yet users kept discussions going on here, donations, moderating, reporting many of such tasks which came with no reward.

Airdropped merits is sort of proof of the effort put in before a certain time and scrapping it out is an extreme action, imo.

This was my stand on the idea of demotion or deranking with emphasis on members that ranked up before the merit system was introduced and it still is today.

A demerit option is extreme and would definitely be abused affecting members all around the board.

[LoyceV]

What impression does it make on new members, especially now that Bitcoin is massively being advertised by big names like Blackrock?

Blackrock's interests are most likely the opposite of my own interests. That should not be a reason to do anything here.

it seems @OP opened this topic because he received a negative feedback from high ranked user.

That doesn't make sense, decodx created his account after the introduction of the Merit system, and earned all his Merit by himself.

I created LoyceV's deMerit source application in 2018. TL;DR:

Part of the reason I started this thread was to (re)start a discussion about deMerit. I see good points, both in favour and against it.

OP should read that topic.

[FatFork]

Although I like the suggestion in general, but it seems @OP opened this topic because he received a negative feedback from high ranked user.

I am clear that it is not that it seems that way, it is that there is a clear cause-effect relationship between one thing and another.

Well, this explains a lot about why OP is dissatisfied with the current merit system and why he came up with this idea. Usually, people who are against the system are also the ones who are trying to abuse it.  I'm sure he would put his alt account farms to good use if we actually had de-merit or demote buttons.

[Lucius]

I agree with the OP, but if that button will be used first on him and all his alt accounts that would have exactly 0 merit after that.

Considering that the story is repeated again that those who ask for some strange things (or make unnecessary excuses) actually draw attention to themselves and their shady actions, maybe someone will find some OP alt account that is permanently banned, and then we know what that means for all other accounts.

Happy hunting guys

[robelneo]

Although I like the suggestion in general, but it seems @OP opened this topic because he received a negative feedback from high ranked user.

I am clear that it is not that it seems that way, it is that there is a clear cause-effect relationship between one thing and another.

Well, this explains a lot about why OP is dissatisfied with the current merit system and why he came up with this idea. Usually, people who are against the system are also the ones who are trying to abuse it.  I'm sure he would put his alt account farms to good use if we actually had de-merit or demote buttons.

So we have two discussions coming from OP that backfired on him and exposed him, I could have agreed if it was coming from a different account and not from someone who got exposed, the timing is bad, I also like OP's idea but it seems there's a hidden agenda behind it.