Product feedback for new Hardcore Wallet

[we-btc]

I have created a new Bitcoin device that I am looking for support at and feedback on.  It would be great to know what people from this amazing group think of the new concept.



https://webtc.io/epiphany.html.

Any feedback is appreciated!

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[dkbit98]

Any feedback is appreciated!

What is the source code, and full device specifications?
I can't provide real feedback when I didn't used and test this device, nut I see there is wifi and bluetooth connection like with smartphones and tablets.
There is no need to buy some special device for bitcoin wallet when we can just use hardware wallets, or smartphones/tablets with installed bitcoin wallets.
  

[we-btc]

There is no need to buy some special device for bitcoin wallet when we can just use hardware wallets, or smartphones/tablets with installed bitcoin wallets.

dkbit98 thank you for the feedback.  Great question!

I wanted something to do peer-to-peer transactions.

The Bitcoin white paper's first sentence: "a purely peer-to-peer form of electronic cash".  

If you use a hardware wallet or any other wallet that is not using your own node then you are doing a three party transaction.  Any third party transaction is not permissionless nor is it free.  There is always a cost to use a node someone else is hosting.

The Epiphany is Bitcoin as it was intended - peer-to-peer.

This may seem like a small thing but I contend that it is not small.  It is the core of Bitcoin's purpose - Provide people with a way to exchange peer-to-peer without having to trust anyone. If we allow third parties in our transactions we are creating an electronic version of the banking system we already have.

The Epiphany is designed to appeal to people who want the freedom and sovereignty that Bitcoin can offer if used properly.

[paid2]

dkbit98 thank you for the feedback.  Great question!

I wanted something to do peer-to-peer transactions.

The Bitcoin white paper's first sentence: "a purely peer-to-peer form of electronic cash".  

If you use a hardware wallet or any other wallet that is not using your own node then you are doing a three party transaction.  Any third party transaction is not permissionless nor is it free.  There is always a cost to use a node someone else is hosting.

The Epiphany is Bitcoin as it was intended - peer-to-peer.

This may seem like a small thing but I contend that it is not small.  It is the core of Bitcoin's purpose - Provide people with a way to exchange peer-to-peer without having to trust anyone. If we allow third parties in our transactions we are creating an electronic version of the banking system we already have.

The Epiphany is designed to appeal to people who want the freedom and sovereignty that Bitcoin can offer if used properly.

So are you saying that users of your wallet must download the whole blockchain in order to run a full node? 

You didn't answer, what is the source code? Any Github to share with us?

[we-btc]

So are you saying that users of your wallet must download the whole blockchain in order to run a full node? 
You didn't answer, what is the source code? Any Github to share with us?

Yes, to run the full node the device has to sync the entire blockchain. Our plan is to sync the devices before shipping unless the customer would like to sync the device when they receive it.
With regard to source code.  The device is still in prototype mode so there is no production code to share yet.

[Bitcoin_Arena]

Your FAQ section is not useful at all. It does not contain any pressing question about the Hardcore wallet.

So are you saying that users of your wallet must download the whole blockchain in order to run a full node?  

It's seem so if i understood what they described on their Homepage.  
I guess the device is coming with at least 1 TB of storage.

[paid2]

Thank you for your answer.

With regard to source code.  The device is still in prototype mode so there is no production code to share yet.

Ok, as you used "yet" I imagine you plan to do it open source, right?

Yes, to run the full node the device has to sync the entire blockchain. Our plan is to sync the devices before shipping unless the customer would like to sync the device when they receive it.

I see, but what would be the benefit to use it instead of simply running Bitcoin Core installed on a Rpi+SSD?

[we-btc]

Thanks paid2 for putting some thought into this and asking good questions.  I really appreciate it.

Ok, as you used "yet" I imagine you plan to do it open source, right?

Yes, it will be open source.

I see, but what would be the benefit to use it instead of simply running Bitcoin Core installed on a Rpi+SSD?

We want bitcoin to be easy to use for anyone.  Turn it on, create a password, save your seed phrase and send and receive Bitcoin. Setting up a node is a huge barrier to entry for your average person. Most people don't understand any of the fundamentals of Bitcoin let alone the economic reason for it. Then they need the technical ability to set up the node.  None of this is reasonable for the average person. The goal is to make truly peer-to-peer, decentralized Bitcoin easy for anyone at a reasonable price.  Our current retail price estimate is between $300 and $350 US or just a little more that a high end hardware wallet.

In addition, because the device has a battery and an RJ45 port it can be used in many ways. To name a few, as a home node accessed remotely with an app like Fully Noded, Take it with you to transact in bitcoin,  Use it as a Business POS... 
You can do all of this with the only device designed to transact in Bitcoin the way it was intended and it is so easy to use.

 

[Kakmakr]

I think, if you intend to run a full node.. then you might kill two flies with one blow.

You increase decentralization by making it easier for people to run a full node and you are making it easier for people to use Bitcoin as it was supposed to be used, namely as a peer-to-peer payment option.

How are you going to handle the increase in the Blockchain size requirement for the future? (Upgradability or running with a pruned Blockchain)

[paid2]

We want bitcoin to be easy to use for anyone.  Turn it on, create a password, save your seed phrase and send and receive Bitcoin. Setting up a node is a huge barrier to entry for your average person. Most people don't understand any of the fundamentals of Bitcoin let alone the economic reason for it. Then they need the technical ability to set up the node.  None of this is reasonable for the average person. The goal is to make truly peer-to-peer, decentralized Bitcoin easy for anyone at a reasonable price.  Our current retail price estimate is between $300 and $350 US or just a little more that a high end hardware wallet.

In addition, because the device has a battery and an RJ45 port it can be used in many ways. To name a few, as a home node accessed remotely with an app like Fully Noded, Take it with you to transact in bitcoin,  Use it as a Business POS... 
You can do all of this with the only device designed to transact in Bitcoin the way it was intended and it is so easy to use.

Thank you for the details, I have now a better picture of your project. Adding a RJ45 port is a good idea, many of us does not want to rely on wireless network.

Your project reminds me Apollo BTC miner, which is often used as a solo minig ASIC with an integrated desktop, sort of "plug and play" node with an ASIC chip integrated.
https://shop.futurebit.io/products/pre-order-apollo-btc-a-bitcoin-asic-miner-and-desktop-class-computer-running-a-full-node-and-much-more-batch-1-ships-in-late-april-to-may

We have iterated and learned much from our first Apollo product. We realized early on that we focused too much on the mining aspect, and not enough on the software, applications, and services that run Bitcoin. Too many of these services have moved to online centralized websites, and many users have given up on running the core software that powers Bitcoin.

I wish you the same success as Apollo once you'll be full ready 

[we-btc]

I think, if you intend to run a full node.. then you might kill two flies with one blow.

You increase decentralization by making it easier for people to run a full node and you are making it easier for people to use Bitcoin as it was supposed to be used, namely as a peer-to-peer payment option.

How are you going to handle the increase in the Blockchain size requirement for the future? (Upgradability or running with a pruned Blockchain)

Thanks Kakmakr,

We plan to offer two models. The base model will be a pruned node and the 2Tb model will store the entire blockchain.

[dkbit98]

The Epiphany is designed to appeal to people who want the freedom and sovereignty that Bitcoin can offer if used properly.

You didn't answer any of my questions so I will repeat them again, what is the source code, and full device specifications?

Running your own node is easy with any laptop or raspberry pi, and you can even connect it with hardware wallets that are open source like Trezor.
I am sure this would be much cheaper than buying mysterious device from you with zero information about code and specifications.

[hugeblack]

Since it is not a HW and not an embedded device that enhance the management of the bitcoin full node, there is no support for the Lightning Network, I did not find an Ethernet port for wired communications, with a 5.5-inch touchscreen display which is definitely not necessary to manage a full node (as it is easy Fracture) I think the price will be high compared to using RaspiBolt^[1].


[1] https://raspibolt.org/

[ABCbits]

Initially i mistook it as hardware wallet with touch screen support, although actually it's device with full node and wallet feature. So here's my feedback/thought,
1. What are advantage of your device compared with your competitors (e.g. Umbrel Home and MyNode Model One ?
2. Can you share estimated price of your device?
3. Will it have camera for scanning Bitcoin address?

[paid2]

Initially i mistook it as hardware wallet with touch screen support, although actually it's device with full node and wallet feature. So here's my feedback/thought,
1. What are advantage of your device compared with your competitors (e.g. Umbrel Home and MyNode Model One ?
2. Can you share estimated price of your device?
3. Will it have camera for scanning Bitcoin address?

I think OP already answered to 1). and 2). when he answered to me previously:

I see, but what would be the benefit to use it instead of simply running Bitcoin Core installed on a Rpi+SSD?

We want bitcoin to be easy to use for anyone.  Turn it on, create a password, save your seed phrase and send and receive Bitcoin. Setting up a node is a huge barrier to entry for your average person. Most people don't understand any of the fundamentals of Bitcoin let alone the economic reason for it. Then they need the technical ability to set up the node.  None of this is reasonable for the average person. The goal is to make truly peer-to-peer, decentralized Bitcoin easy for anyone at a reasonable price.  Our current retail price estimate is between $300 and $350 US or just a little more that a high end hardware wallet.

In addition, because the device has a battery and an RJ45 port it can be used in many ways. To name a few, as a home node accessed remotely with an app like Fully Noded, Take it with you to transact in bitcoin,  Use it as a Business POS...  
You can do all of this with the only device designed to transact in Bitcoin the way it was intended and it is so easy to use.

[we-btc]

Since it is not a HW and not an embedded device that enhance the management of the bitcoin full node, there is no support for the Lightning Network, I did not find an Ethernet port for wired communications, with a 5.5-inch touchscreen display which is definitely not necessary to manage a full node (as it is easy Fracture) I think the price will be high compared to using RaspiBolt^[1].
[1] https://raspibolt.org/

The Epiphany is designed to do two things - First, Bitcoin the way it was intended - decentralized and truly peer-to-peer. and second, make Bitcoin simple for anyone to use. Just press send or receive and exchange Bitcoin with anyone without the need for a third party.

It does have an RJ45 port for Ethernet connection for easy connection to the internet.

This is not designed for the person who wants to build a node.  It is designed to make Bitcoin easy for anyone who wants to transact with Bitcoin peer-to-peer.

Initially i mistook it as hardware wallet with touch screen support, although actually it's device with full node and wallet feature. So here's my feedback/thought,
1. What are advantage of your device compared with your competitors (e.g. Umbrel Home and MyNode Model One ?
2. Can you share estimated price of your device?
3. Will it have camera for scanning Bitcoin address?

Thanks for the great questions.

1. Umbrel and other nodes are set up for people who want to run nodes.  The Epiphany is  for people who want to transact in Bitcoin easily and peer-to-peer.  To use the Epiphany you don't even need to know what a node is and no additional devices or software are needed.  You can do everything on the touchscreen.  Take it anywhere you like or leave it at home. The built in battery and touchscreen combination make the uses almost unlimited while adhering to the core tenants of Bitcoin.  No other wallet except Core does this.  That is why we call it a Hardcore wallet.
2. We are hoping to sell the base model between $300 and $350 US and the 2TB version for $450.
3. Yes it will have an integrated camera for scanning QR codes.

 

[hugeblack]

This is not designed for the person who wants to build a node.  It is designed to make Bitcoin easy for anyone who wants to transact with Bitcoin peer-to-peer.

You may have forgotten something, but the full node is not for anyone, but rather for someone who wants to enhance his privacy and knows how to do it, or wants to verify everything himself, so ready made solutions are not an advantage for those who use full node, and without making the code open source and explaining the details of the device, most of them will most likely avoid your device.
You can also create a POS without a full node.

anyway good luck, work hard on the design, shock resistance, and price, as they will most likely be the criteria for comparison.

[ABCbits]

Thanks for the great questions.

1. Umbrel and other nodes are set up for people who want to run nodes.  The Epiphany is  for people who want to transact in Bitcoin easily and peer-to-peer.  To use the Epiphany you don't even need to know what a node is and no additional devices or software are needed.  You can do everything on the touchscreen.  Take it anywhere you like or leave it at home. The built in battery and touchscreen combination make the uses almost unlimited while adhering to the core tenants of Bitcoin.  No other wallet except Core does this.  That is why we call it a Hardcore wallet.
2. We are hoping to sell the base model between $300 and $350 US and the 2TB version for $450.
3. Yes it will have an integrated camera for scanning QR codes. 

1. Thanks for the explanation. The built-in touchscreen is definitely Epiphany's advantage, although FWIW some company (which offer hardware to run full node) also let their user install and Bitcoin wallet software easily.
2. It's a bit cheaper than i expected. Does the cost include any form support or warranty?
3. That's great.

[NotATether]

Um.... The UI is not so good. It is very blue, which will hurt the eyes at night. Also the layout looks like its from an old HTML page. No offense.

But what is the purpose of the device? It looks like a cross-over between a hardware wallet and a tablet. But it's not going to be a substitute for a hardware wallet if it doesn't have a cryptographic module or some kind of HSM inside.

[examplens]

Um.... The UI is not so good. It is very blue, which will hurt the eyes at night. Also the layout looks like its from an old HTML page. No offense.

It reminds me more of the Windows blue screen of death. Maybe there are some traumas from the past  , but I certainly wouldn't choose this combination in 2024.