Beware Shuffle.com Shady Casino/Sportsbook [resolved but do not recommend]

[legendmina1]

I just want to post this here, to document what happened to me and warn others from using this Casino with their own token coming soon called $SHFL
So you don't do the same mistake and risk losing your valuable coins

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5465575.0 is their bitcointalk thread link
https://twitter.com/shufflecom

 The first couple of days my experience playing the sportsbook was smooth! nearly instant deposits and withdrawals, and the betting experience was very nice.

2 days in, I am a couple of hundred dollars up with less than $1000 total wagered and now they disabled my withdrawal option, betting option and want me to provide KYC to even withdraw my money just $100 balance! I never saw that before with my 5 years+ gambling on casinos.

My problem is with three things;
1) Asking for KYC when I am literally under $1000 total wagered (WHO THIS KYC INFORMATION EVEN GOES TO??)
2) Refusing to even let me withdraw/close my account
3) Hiding behind their ToS and slow support which ceased communication

Let me know if you want me to provide more information, pictures. I was really hoping this will be the future of Gambling with its own token, and buybacks. but these shady practices make me think otherwise.

Edit: I just want to add I noticed now they changed my chat ban from 20 days to permanent https://prnt.sc/BylxuMixpVwQ

[1714565695]

1714565695

[acroman08]

My problem is with three things;
1) Asking for KYC when I am literally under $1000 total wagered (WHO THIS KYC INFORMATION EVEN GOES TO??)
2) Refusing to even let me withdraw/close my account
3) Hiding behind their ToS and slow support which ceased communication

as far as I know, one of the casino's protocols is to disable withdrawal when they are asking gamblers playing on their platform to perform KYC. As for where it goes, as far as I know, they keep it.

anyway, have you asked them why they requested for you to perform KYC verification?

Let me know if you want me to provide more information, pictures. I was really hoping this will be the future of Gambling with its own token, and buybacks. but these shady practices make me think otherwise.

please do, providing more information like screenshots of your conversation with their support is important, it adds more context to your post.

[legendmina1]

https://prnt.sc/bcSO51SgIUBx
https://prnt.sc/RGKuV0L1x59l
https://prnt.sc/chaJlMDDxZc7
https://prnt.sc/D95HXY2TcaqS
https://prnt.sc/bpEJbaBn79Ei

the total amount I want to withdraw is 664 trx which is less than $100 btw (since I had a pending bet and I won it)

but if they are doing this to me, imagine what they will do someone depositing in thousands?

I made a twitter post to warn other users, and still nobody from support contacted me. Any decent reputable company would immediately message to follow back with user concerns. Just shady platform. They have their token sale in 2 days so maybe they are only focused on that and don't care for future of this casino.

[PX-Z]

...

So your main problem is having asked for KYC? In your 5 years of experience you should already know that licensed casinos especially new ones are abide to ask KYC whenever they want, especially after XX withdrawal requests. So before registering to any casino you should be ready your KYC info after wagering X amount to them.

If you don't want to experience such thing better to stick to reputed casinos like Stake that will only ask after thousands of $$ withdrawals.

[legendmina1]

...

So your main problem is having asked for KYC? In your 5 years of experience you should already know that licensed casinos especially new ones are abide to ask KYC whenever they want, especially after XX withdrawal requests. So before registering to any casino you should be ready your KYC info after wagering X amount to them.

Bla bla, Usually they ask KYC when you are trading in multiple thousands and winning(and even they still let you withdraw and not let use their platform anymore).   Not when literally your total wager amount is under $1000 and locking your money hiding behind their garbage ToS. There is another post on the thread where they are holding money hostage 6 weeks even after providing KYC! That's absurd.

[logfiles]

Almost all casinos will ask for KYC verification from you once you attempted to withdraw. I am shocked that this probably the first time you are experiencing this. If you do not agree to their terms and conditions when attempting to register, I think it would be much better to completely avoid using the casino and depositing any cash there. Right now you have no choice but to submit what they request of you or give up on the money.

[PX-Z]

Bla bla, Usually they ask KYC when you are trading in multiple thousands and winning. Not when literally your total wager amount is under $1000 and locking your money hiding behind their garbage ToS. There is another post on the thread where they are holding money hostage 6 weeks even after providing KYC! That's absurd.

Yeah, yeah, just keep whining, people here already know how casino KYC works and no one will side you, even defend you, until you submit your KYC then still have the same issue.

The one posted on their ANN is a serious one, shitty casinos who only rely on the same IP range for labeling multi-accounting is absurd. IP address, device, browser, screen width x height, KYC should be the same or similar to label someone as multi accounting not just IP range.

[legendmina1]

Bla bla, Usually they ask KYC when you are trading in multiple thousands and winning. Not when literally your total wager amount is under $1000 and locking your money hiding behind their garbage ToS. There is another post on the thread where they are holding money hostage 6 weeks even after providing KYC! That's absurd.

Yeah, yeah, just keep whining, people here already know how casino KYC works and no one will side you, even defend you, until you submit your KYC then still have the same issue.

The one posted on their ANN is a serious one, shitty casinos who only rely on the same IP range for labeling multi-accounting is absurd. IP address, device, browser, screen width x height, KYC should be the same or similar to label someone as multi accounting not just IP range.

I am not looking for anyone to defend me. I am posting my experience and warning others and hoping if they have a real customer support it will expedite their efforts. I have been using countless other platforms like sportsbet,stake,fortunejack,cloudbet over the years without any issues. They are simply asking me to provide identity front and back. Even then, I don't trust them to honor the withdrawal.

[AHOYBRAUSE]

I am not looking for anyone to defend me. I am posting my experience and warning others and hoping if they have a real customer support it will expedite their efforts. I have been using countless other platforms like sportsbet,stake,fortunejack,cloudbet over the years without any issues. They are simply asking me to provide identity front and back. Even then, I don't trust them to honor the withdrawal.

Actually, KYC is not an issue and if you played at other site you know at some point they all request KYC, that's just how it is.
Sure it's a bit off they ask for KYC after such a small wager and also while you are down.
Most crypto sites I use or used asked for KYC when I was withdrawing profits, but didn't ask while I was still down, haha.

But hey, it is what it is. It's annoying, I know. But it's in their right to ask for it any time. We all know that when we start playing somewhere and by doing so accepted their TOS.

[Apocollapse]

I am not looking for anyone to defend me. I am posting my experience and warning others and hoping if they have a real customer support it will expedite their efforts. I have been using countless other platforms like sportsbet,stake,fortunejack,cloudbet over the years without any issues. They are simply asking me to provide identity front and back. Even then, I don't trust them to honor the withdrawal.

And it's incorrect to expect the new site will be same like the other websites. The big difference of those casinos and Shuffle is those casinos are big, while Shuffle is still relatively small.

I'd call this a premature accusation, your issue is don't want to submit KYC when the site has KYC mandatory terms.

There is another post on the thread where they are holding money hostage 6 weeks even after providing KYC! That's absurd.

There's a chance if it's a fake accusation or he did something wrong that makes the casino need to take further action. Sometime, other people experience isn't same as our own experience.

[Beparanf]

My problem is with three things;
1) Asking for KYC when I am literally under $1000 total wagered (WHO THIS KYC INFORMATION EVEN GOES TO??)
2) Refusing to even let me withdraw/close my account
3) Hiding behind their ToS and slow support which ceased communication

Your problem is this while you didn’t bother to read the ToS before you deposit or even when you are already playing frequently? Regardless the amount of your current balance they have the right ask you KYC.

You mention that you have many years of playing in the casino but do play frequently on crypto casino because KYC is already a thing ever since licensed is already introduced for online casino. Your problem is very easy to resolve by undergoing KYC because this is something that you agreed when you sign up on this casino. This issue is not a scam accusation but rather a negligence on user side for not reading ToS.

[legendmina1]

My problem is with three things;
1) Asking for KYC when I am literally under $1000 total wagered (WHO THIS KYC INFORMATION EVEN GOES TO??)
2) Refusing to even let me withdraw/close my account
3) Hiding behind their ToS and slow support which ceased communication

Your problem is this while you didn’t bother to read the ToS before you deposit or even when you are already playing frequently? Regardless the amount of your current balance they have the right ask you KYC.

You mention that you have many years of playing in the casino but do play frequently on crypto casino because KYC is already a thing ever since licensed is already introduced for online casino. Your problem is very easy to resolve by undergoing KYC because this is something that you agreed when you sign up on this casino. This issue is not a scam accusation but rather a negligence on user side for not reading ToS.

Thanks for your comment, I admit I did not read the ToS which states they have the right to ask for KYC any time. But let's be honest, That's a stipulation in all casinos but very rarely enforce unless I am wagering a lot, or I have multi account or any other suspicion like that

I was withdrawing multiple times with no problem (all to the same address), how is it any different this time? Why they want me to provide kyc (picture and back side of ID/passport) to withdraw less than $100? that's a red flag. Any decent casino will disable your account and at the very least let you withdraw your deposit!

Even then, there is 0 guarantee they will honor the withdrawal. Frankly, I don't want to submit my documents to them, or stored by them. (what is to say they will later accuse me of fake documents?) 0 communication on email, twitter and here.

So please Shuffle support if you read this message, tell me publicly here what rules I break? I am playing from my home IP with no vpn and have only account registered when I first heard about this sportsbook through Twitter.

Thank you

[JollyGood]

I think sending personal documents such as a passport and ID cards to online websites is a massive risk and should never be undertaken. When it comes to exchanges and casinos, you should never engage with any that have clauses in their terms and conditions that allow them to effectively first can blackmail you to submit ID and then refuse to release funds citing other clauses.

I understand you did not read the terms but virtually all of them are similar regardless of where you choose to pay. As the amount is just $100 unfortunately you will have to take the loss and clearly them not allowing you to get your deposit back shows they cannot be trusted.

Hopefully Shuffle will post here to challenge your version of events or confirm what you have stated as it would clarify matters.

Thanks for your comment, I admit I did not read the ToS which states they have the right to ask for KYC any time. But let's be honest, That's a stipulation in all casinos but very rarely enforce unless I am wagering a lot, or I have multi account or any other suspicion like that

I was withdrawing multiple times with no problem (all to the same address), how is it any different this time? Why they want me to provide kyc (picture and back side of ID/passport) to withdraw less than $100? that's a red flag. Any decent casino will disable your account and at the very least let you withdraw your deposit!

Even then, there is 0 guarantee they will honor the withdrawal. Frankly, I don't want to submit my documents to them, or stored by them. (what is to say they will later accuse me of fake documents?) 0 communication on email, twitter and here.

So please Shuffle support if you read this message, tell me publicly here what rules I break? I am playing from my home IP with no vpn and have only account registered when I first heard about this sportsbook through Twitter.

Thank you

[Mahdirakib]

I was withdrawing multiple times with no problem (all to the same address), how is it any different this time? Why they want me to provide kyc (picture and back side of ID/passport) to withdraw less than $100? that's a red flag. Any decent casino will disable your account and at the very least let you withdraw your deposit!

The KYC and AML policy isn’t so simple as it used to be a few years ago, the withdrawal amount doesn't matter anymore. There could be several reasons for asking you to complete the KYC verification. I can understand your dissatisfaction here as I have faced similar situation on two different casinos. One of them finally allowed me to withdraw without the KYC verification requirement, but I was forced to complete it on the other one. My withdrawal amount was small too.

BTW, they have asked you to complete the level 2 KYC verification only, which isn't complicated. Shuffle team hasn't done anything wrong here as the way you are trying to highlight it.

[legendmina1]

I was withdrawing multiple times with no problem (all to the same address), how is it any different this time? Why they want me to provide kyc (picture and back side of ID/passport) to withdraw less than $100? that's a red flag. Any decent casino will disable your account and at the very least let you withdraw your deposit!

The KYC and AML policy isn’t so simple as it used to be a few years ago, the withdrawal amount doesn't matter anymore. There could be several reasons for asking you to complete the KYC verification. I can understand your dissatisfaction here as I have faced similar situation on two different casinos. One of them finally allowed me to withdraw without the KYC verification requirement, but I was forced to complete it on the other one. My withdrawal amount was small too.

BTW, they have asked you to complete the level 2 KYC verification only, which isn't complicated. Shuffle team hasn't done anything wrong here as the way you are trying to highlight it.

Thanks for your comment, I would not have a problem submitting my personal documents if they use a third party or something like that, but requesting me to submit these documents which is stored by them to withdraw my deposit in it's self is a scam and theft.

You can't hide behind regulations and ToS when you are literally conducting a token sale https://app.bazaar.money/launch/rSHFL
which in it's self don't request you to KYC to buy? don't you see the irony here

It has been 4 days since my initial communication with Shuffle and no response, I have made them aware of this thread and my review on trustpilot and they don't care so be it.


 

[holydarkness]

First and foremost, I'm reuploading your screenshots to talkimg --please use this image hosting site in the future, it'll make things easier-- so everybody can get access to the better context of the situation easier:



That done, addressing your issue, as I am quite sure you're well aware since it was mentioned by their support, they have the right to ask for KYC anytime they want, as per clause 4 on their ToS



And like Mahdirakib implied, KYC nowadays are not specifically need to be triggered by high amount, nor perhaps a strange betting pattern from your side. If we want to try to look from other possibility, maybe it was actually indeed triggered by a suspicious activity, only... it's not from your side.

From time to time we get cases of multi-acc abuse landed in our plate where the casino are very sure of the abuse, because they've identified the ID of the abuser through KYC. Maybe, this is the side that we finally privileged to witness, how they singled out the abuser from the legit ones.

What I tried to propose is, maybe your account was suspected to be a part of a cluster of multi-acc abuse, thus they asked for further KYC, to eliminate or to put you on the same box with the suspect.

I can understand the reluctance of KYC, though. Given you said that you won't mind providing  your document if they use a third party verifier, most likely, they do, many casinos use services like veriff. If you want to, I can try to find some info about this, though, whether they hire an independent third-party verificator or they do it themselves.

Let me know.

[legendmina1]

I went ahead and submitted my ID and now they further verification for KYC3! like utility or bank statement . Which is not even available for my country (according to settings) they want me to provide it in live chat.

As I predicted and probably after providing that they will ask me to take selfie or video calll just to further hassle me.  I won't entertain them anymore and consider my deposit/money gone. But be careful with this shady casino

[logfiles]

I went ahead and submitted my ID and now they further verification for KYC3! like utility or bank statement . Which is not even available for my country (according to settings) they want me to provide it in live chat.

That's probably for proof of location. Don't they provide Utility Bills or Bank statements in your Country?
Honestly, if you don't want to do any KYC or provide any sensitive personal data then I suggest you completely stop signing up for the online casinos

As I predicted and probably after providing that they will ask me to take selfie or video calll just to further hassle me.  I won't entertain them anymore and consider my deposit/money gone. But be careful with this shady casino

It's your call to make, though it's a painful one.

[Mahdirakib]

I went ahead and submitted my ID and now they further verification for KYC3! like utility or bank statement . Which is not even available for my country (according to settings) they want me to provide it in live chat.

The level 3 KYC is 'proof of address' verification at Shuffle. It can easily be completed with a utility bill or bank statement. I'm wondering where do you live that it isn’t possible for you to provide the bank statement to verify your address! I had completed the address verification on a casino with bank statement, and the process was very simple. What do you mean by "according to settings" here? Your complaint will be invalid if you don't submit the requested documents.

[holydarkness]

I've been waiting for your response to reach their representative, in regards to your concern of data privacy and the involvement of 3rd party verifier, but as it seems you've done it despite your initial reluctance, as well as this new development of the situation, I am notifying their representative, and hopefully he'll come here and give what he thought as well as the best approach to this case.