Ledger Nano S - Lost all hope

[Ausnoobi]

Hi guys,
I am looking for someone super smart to help my partner and I get into his Ledger (Nano S).

Want to get this out of the way first, I know nothing about these things, I'm just the one with access to it and a computer as I work from home, so I'm trying to on behalf of my partner get some advice on what he should do.

Long story short, bought this like 7 years ago, I set it up on our old computer (changed PC since then) at our old house and printed off the "recovery phrase". So what I printed off is an actual screenshot from setting up the ledger back then. What's happening is its only 9 words so I can't use them basically. I went to Ledger support they told me those 9 words must be for something else but my partner says that's the right thing for the Ledger, it wouldn't be for anything else because we don't have any other hardware that would require a recovery phrase. So Ledger Support closed my case, didn't tell me if there was any other way in, left it at that.

There's about 10k in there that we would really like to be able to have access to, so this is frightening.

My question is, since this recovery phrase is not ever going to work, how else can we get access inside the ledger? I read that my partner can move his XRP(?) to somewhere else while we reset the ledger (dont know how to do that) and then move the funds back to the account once we've reset the ledger and it's working again. Is this the only way? Is it easy to do, I can just tell my partner to do that and he will understand how to do it?

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

My question is, since this recovery phrase is not ever going to work, how else can we get access inside the ledger? I read that my partner can move his XRP(?) to somewhere else while we reset the ledger (dont know how to do that) and then move the funds back to the account once we've reset the ledger and it's working again. Is this the only way? Is it easy to do, I can just tell my partner to do that and he will understand how to do it?

It looks like you still have access of the ledger device since you are talking about resetting it.

[1.] Have you downloaded Ledger Live yet? If not then download and install it. Then open the ledger using Ledger live. Read the tutorials available online.
[2.] Do not reset the ledger device since you only have 9 words. Usually ledger have 12 or 24 words seed. Having 9 words mean you have lost the other words and you can not restore the wallet anymore. Without resetting the ledger, if you have the device working then you can restore your wallet.
[3.] I hope at this point you were able to access the xrp. In that case move the xrp to an xrp wallet. Once you are sure that all coins are moved from the ledger then only go for reset and create a new wallet to move the xrp to your ledger device.

DO NOT RESET THE CURRENT LEDGER unless you moved the coins [emptied the wallets] to another wallet.

[Zaguru12]

I have to agree with ledger the 9 words aren’t the recovery words because the first usually recovery words that ledger produce are 24 words long and not 9. Maybe your partner might have used other Methods to back the recovery words up either by splitting the words into two and the other part is what you’re having access to.

Without the recovery seed that wallet cannot be recovered. Don’t know maybe btcrecover tool can help.

Edit: with the ledger still at hand then it’s easy create a temporary wallet and move funds there and then after create a new wallet on the ledger and move the funds back there

[Meuserna]

CAUTION!

DO NOT ENTER A PIN UNLESS YOU KNOW IT'S CORRECT!

Ledger devices wipe themselves out after a certain number of incorrect PIN attempts, and the number isn't high.

With the PIN, you should be able to unlock the device and add it to Ledger Live.  I'm assuming that, however.  I stopped using Ledger devices last year.

Since your Ledger is old, you might have started with a 12 word seed phrase.  I got mine in 2019 and started with a 24 word seed phrase.

If your 9 words are the first 9 words of your seed phrase,, it's possible to run a script that churns through all possible seed phrase combinations until it finds your missing words, but with 3 of 12 missing it's going to take a while.  This is known as "brute forcing" it.  If you can find the seed words, you don't need a Ledger.  Put those words in any wallet app and it'll rebuild your wallet.

On the other hand, if you only have 9 out of 24 and you're missing the rest...  it wouldn't be possible to brute force the missing words.

If any of your 9 words aren't on the BIP39 wordlist, which is published here, or if your words form any kind of readable sentence, the words you have aren't your seed words.  Seed words are totally random.

[dkbit98]

So what I printed off is an actual screenshot from setting up the ledger back then. What's happening is its only 9 words so I can't use them basically.

Correct way is to write seed phrase on paper, or on metal, screenshots are big security risk and they should never be created as a backup.
Ledger and most of the other wallets are usually using 12 or 24 seed words, so mistakes is on your side, there is no wallet in the world with only 9 seed words.

My question is, since this recovery phrase is not ever going to work, how else can we get access inside the ledger? I read that my partner can move his XRP(?) to somewhere else while we reset the ledger (dont know how to do that) and then move the funds back to the account once we've reset the ledger and it's working again. Is this the only way? Is it easy to do, I can just tell my partner to do that and he will understand how to do it?

First you should install ledger app on your computer (or phone) and connect your ledger device, but you should also know the PIN code the continue to next step.

[Lucius]

There is possibly one problem here that no one has mentioned, and it is possible that the Ledger HW in question has one of the first firmwares that, as far as I know, cannot be upgraded to new firmware, and therefore I think that such a device cannot be used with Ledger Live. There are examples of Ledger replacing such devices with new ones in the past, but given that the OP does not have the correct seed it is a dead end for now.

The situation is a bit unclear about whether the OP has access to his Ledger account or not - so that should be clarified first of all. Resetting is an option that should not be considered as long as there is no seed to make a recovery.

[bitmover]

CAUTION!

DO NOT ENTER A PIN UNLESS YOU KNOW IT'S CORRECT!

Ledger devices wipe themselves out after a certain number of incorrect PIN attempts, and the number isn't high.

After 3 wrong attempts, your ledger device will reset. And you will no longer be able to access your coins without the seed (12 or 24 words)

Ledger uses 24 words. Your 9 words are basically worthless imo.

There is possibly one problem here that no one has mentioned, and it is possible that the Ledger HW in question has one of the first firmwares that, as far as I know, cannot be upgraded to new firmware, and therefore I think that such a device cannot be used with Ledger Live.

Lucius is correct.

Old devices with old firmware will automatically reset the device when the firmware is updated.
Ledger Live will force this update. You shouldn't install Ledger live.


My suggestion:
Try to remember and use your PIN.
Move all your coins using Electrum Wallet and Metamask to another wallet.

Do not use Ledger live.

[satscraper]

Long story short, bought this like 7 years ago, I set it up on our old computer (changed PC since then) at our old house and printed off the "recovery phrase". So what I printed off is an actual screenshot

Sounds strange for me.

When one is setting up a newly bought Ledger Nano S device the latter indeed requires the connection to machine with running Ledger Live app but generated SEED phrase is never enter  computer's display other than the possible  case when compromised  USB cable ( (like O.MG) was used. Did you use original Ledger cable or something else?

[Lucius]

~snip~
My suggestion:
Try to remember and use your PIN.
Move all your coins using Electrum Wallet and Metamask to another wallet.
Do not use Ledger live.

If the OP has only XRP as he wrote, then he will not need these wallets, and according to what is stated on the official website, there is another wallet that works with this coin in combination with Ledger (XRP Toolkit). In case the OP has the correct PIN and wants to try to make a transfer using this wallet, I suggest that he use the official Ledger site and all the wallet links from that site.

[Ausnoobi]

Thanks for all the feedback everybody. I will go through it all and see what else I can do. To respond to some people, I will answer some questions and clarify things.

The 9 word seed I got is a screenshot straight from setting up Electrum on my old computer. The words I got aren't actually words and are scrambled. Are  Electrum and Ledger completely different things? So that means I might have the 24 words somewhere, but I have looked everywhere, and couldn't find them. Got a new computer so that doesn't help. Emails from over 3 years ago are whiped due to a server change. So at the moment I'd have no hope finding the "24 words". The only words I got are from Electrum setup on computer, so if thats a separate thing to Ledger that will clear that up for me.

I have access to the ledger device. I thought I changed the pin on it a few weeks ago because I forgot it and now its asking me for the recovery phrase and that's all I can get it to do. I dont think I changed the PIN though as it asks me to make one everytime I turn it on, so I must've reset it a little bit by accident. I downloaded Ledger Live but I actually can't get it to connect to the device at all. Probably because I can't enter the recovery phrase.

Ive never plugged this device into a computer for the past however many years. So it'd be stuck on old firmware for sure. I was hoping it would connect to Ledger Live and I can update it but it appears that might pose an even bigger problem.

My screenshot for the 9 words says "Electrum - Install Wizard" so thats the app I used while setting up this Ledger long time ago. I might try to download that app again and see if I can log in with what its given me. It must work there.

[Ausnoobi]

I downloaded the Electrum desktop app that I originally installed while setting up the Ledger (still unsure if they are related, but I was dealing with both at the same time I remember that). I used the 9 word seed on that to restore my settings. It worked there but its saying I have 0 balance so I'm not sure if it really worked or if its even linked to this Ledger device at all.

I will play around with the XRP Toolkit instead.

[Ausnoobi]

I have just realized my computer does not read the Ledger when I connect it. It does not show up in Device Manager. I've tried 2 different USB cords. Will the ledger not show up as a hardware device if I dont put in the recovery phrase? If my computer can't read the device is our only option now to move the currency somewhere else and can someone give me an article to read or something so we know how to do that?

[Meuserna]

Your Nano S needs to have Ledger's Bitcoin "app" on it before Electrum can recognize it.  Apps on a Ledger Nano are sort of like translators, in that they tell the Nano how to give you the right data for that specific Blockchain.  In other words, the Bitcoin app tells a Nano how to work with Bitcoin, and the Ethereum app tells a Nano how to work with Ethereum, etc.  This was Ledger's way of making devices without enough memory for lots of blockchains.

So, you'd have to use Ledger Live to install Ledger's Bitcoin app on your Nano S before Electrum can recognize it (but you probably need to then quit Ledger Live before launching Electrum).

[satscraper]

Thanks for all the feedback everybody. I will go through it all and see what else I can do. To respond to some people, I will answer some questions and clarify things.

The 9 word seed I got is a screenshot straight from setting up Electrum on my old computer. The words I got aren't actually words and are scrambled. Ar

The old Electrum (before version 2.0) had its own (not BIP39) words list that can be found here. Those words are usual "not scrambled"  words taken from wiktionary. Thus you got something else rather than SEED. The latter t would consist at least of 12 usual words.

Are  Electrum and Ledger completely different things?

Completely different.

Ledger can be paired with Electrum, but to perform this, it must be fully initialized (in a sense,  being  feed   with  SEED) and have inner Bitcoin app installed.

[tabas]

I have just realized my computer does not read the Ledger when I connect it. It does not show up in Device Manager. I've tried 2 different USB cords.

Nano S HW really has this problem with their cords and that's why try to test it with the other USB ports of your computer. I've experienced that before when I have connected mine in the front USB port of my computer it worked when it was still new but in the long run, it didn't anymore so I connected it to the back USB port of my PC and then it worked like magic.

Will the ledger not show up as a hardware device if I dont put in the recovery phrase?

It will show up, as long as you're able to connect it once before as it will serve like your portfolio tracker and all you need to input is your ledger live's password.

If my computer can't read the device is our only option now to move the currency somewhere else and can someone give me an article to read or something so we know how to do that?

Typically, it's only about the cord which is certainly a common issue for the older versions. Other than that, if the bitcoin app isn't yet on your HW, follow what meuserna said.

[Pmalek]

So, you'd have to use Ledger Live to install Ledger's Bitcoin app on your Nano S before Electrum can recognize it (but you probably need to then quit Ledger Live before launching Electrum).

Yes, you can't have Ledger Live and Electrum open and accessing the Ledger HW at the same time. After OP installs the bitcoin app, they need to check their portfolio and find the bitcoin account they want to recover in Electrum. Then, take note of the derivation path and insert it into Electrum when the software asks for it. To connect your Ledger with Electrum, you also need to open the bitcoin app on your device before running Electrum and trying to make the connection.

[Cricktor]

Long story short, bought this like 7 years ago, I set it up on our old computer (changed PC since then) at our old house and printed off the "recovery phrase". So what I printed off is an actual screenshot from setting up the ledger back then.

That is sort of inconclusive. What exactly have you setup, later you say something about an Electrum wallet, but what does this has to do with your Ledger Nano S?

When you setup a new wallet on a Ledger Nano S, you are shown 24 mnemonic recovery words from the BIP-39 word list solely on the Ledger Nano device screen. You are instructed to write the words down on the paper recovery sheet supplied with your Ledger Nano because during the setup process you will have to verify you wrote them down in a recognisable manner. The recovery words are only shown on the Ledger Nano S screen, they don't and shouldn't touch a computer.

What's happening is its only 9 words so I can't use them basically. I went to Ledger support they told me those 9 words must be for something else but my partner says that's the right thing for the Ledger, it wouldn't be for anything else because we don't have any other hardware that would require a recovery phrase. So Ledger Support closed my case, didn't tell me if there was any other way in, left it at that.

I haven't heard of a BIP-39 compatible wallet that uses less than 12 recovery words as minimum (this equals to an initial entropy of 128 bits). And to my knowledge Ledger Nano S always used 24 mnemonic recovery words.

Those 9 words could be an extension to the recovery words, namely the optional mnemonic passphrase. But if you and your partner don't seem to have much clue about HD wallets, I somewhat doubt you setup your Ledger wallet with an optional mnemonic passphrase.

What your partner says in this context is probably somewhat irrelevant as long as you both lack the knowledge how those wallets work and why the most important thing are those mnemonic recovery words once you setup the wallet. Your Ledger Nano S package contained three blank recovery paper sheets with numbered spaces for the mnemonic recovery words. It was and is intended to be filled properly as an offline backup for your wallet during the Ledger Nano S wallet setup process.

Where is this properly written and filled paper card? Don't say you don't have it or can't find it anymore otherwise you can kiss your coins goodbye.

My question is, since this recovery phrase is not ever going to work, how else can we get access inside the ledger? I read that my partner can move his XRP(?) to somewhere else while we reset the ledger (dont know how to do that) and then move the funds back to the account once we've reset the ledger and it's working again. Is this the only way? Is it easy to do, I can just tell my partner to do that and he will understand how to do it?

As others have said already: DO NOT reset the Ledger Nano S if you don't have the verifiably correct mnemonic recovery words for your Ledger Nano S wallet. Your only chance to move your coins out of this Ledger Nano S wallet is if you know the correct access PIN code for it. If you don't have the PIN code, you only have three attempts to enter it correctly or your Ledger Nano S will reset itself, meaning your wallet will be wiped from your Ledger Nano device.