Exit strategy BTC cash out (or any other crypto) without pay capital gains taxes

[BiTCalt]

But how can we do this in an affordable way?
And how can we learn how to use this method and all his upsides and downsides?

Saylor has a company that deals with various things, among other things, developing apps for Bitcoin and simply transfers all excess profits to Bitcoin - you as an individual cannot do what he does. In other words, you want to outsmart the system so that you don't sell Bitcoin, but at the same time you profit from it - or you sell Bitcoin, but you don't pay tax, or you pay much less than the 20% that it amounts to in your case.

I really don't understand that. Saylor, what app?
How can I do what you say in practice?

I found this nexo card that maybe do exactly that:

I've heard about it, but I don't know if that model has a sustainable business strategy. However, the idea that you should give your BTC to someone in order to be able to get loans is actually very problematic at its core - because you are not the owner of the BTC, and the company you entrusted them to can disappear at any moment and you are left with nothing. They have their own ANN thread on the forum, but the last post was in 2022.

Yeah I know you have to trust some entity but don't you have to do it even with the Saylor's idea or app, idk

[1714303882]

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[stompix]

Simple strategy: Move to a country like Montenegro or El Salvador for 9-10 months and establish tax residency there.
~snip~

I personally would not go to countries where the security situation is not the best, and Montenegro is certainly one of those countries, considering that it is an extremely divided country with great national tensions that can escalate into civil war at any moment. As for El Salvador, regardless of the fact that Bukele allegedly cleaned the country of gangs, you still need to be careful and choose safer (more expensive) places that are not as cheap as some people think.

You can dodge the 180 days mandatory stay in Montenegro by registering a company there and providing proof it's your only one, pretty easy to do since you won't be running any other company in this case and that's it, you can get out of the country the next day take the crypto profits, and if you want to get rid of all the taxes owned in Montenegro for your company then with a bit of accounting I'm not going to recommend to anyone just ...hmm, bankrupt the said company to ..another one and I'll stop here. Nobody will come after you but it would still be not fully legal if I might word it this way.

As for selling BTC without paying tax, there are some physical exchanges in some EU countries where you can sell (for now) around EUR 1000 worth of crypto per transaction, and theoretically if you visit several such branches in one day, you could quite legally sell crypto in worth several thousand EUR. Consider that the fee for such a service is about 5% or more.

So, just to make sure, we're talking about dodging taxes and avoiding them here, not  tax "optimization", right?
Cause you can exchange your coins for fiat without the tax department knowing about it, but the moment you buy a 500 000 euros house with a  600 euros wage in the last 10 years all that has been for nothing. Plus, with the rules on limits for cash-only fiat payments in the EU you'll have again trouble spending huge amounts as each bank will ask you where you got that cash.

Right. Saylor's idea of borrowing against your Bitcoin is gaining popularity. You can use your Bitcoin as collateral to get a loan without selling it and triggering taxes. If Bitcoin's value goes up, you can refinance or pay off the loan, and if it goes down, you can add more Bitcoin to avoid issues.

Yeah, unless you run out of it, Luna and Celsius style!

[The Cryptovator]

Not paying tax won't be easy when your capital grows and you reside in a country where tax is required. If you just want to spend, then you can avoid tax. But if your capital and total assets keep increasing, then tax authorities will identify you and may ask about your income sources. You can trade on Dex without having to use a KYC exchange. But at the end of the day, you have to make it cash. So it will increase your total assets that would be considered for tax and that you would need to explain about your income source. 

[Stalker22]

Nobody can go to a supermarket and spend USDT. We are not there yet, and probably never will be.

I think that actually depends on where you live.  Believe it or not, you can really buy groceries at some supermarkets and pay with crypto in some parts of the world! 

[hatshepsut93]

You can exchange your BTC for a stablecoin, but what are you going to do with a stablecoin? Can't even buy groceries or buy a hamburger with it. And sure as hell can't buy a house or a decent car. But even if you'll manage to do so, it would attract the attention of IRS or a similar body and the first thing they will ask is where the money came from.

The only viable way is to exchange BTC for cash and make small spendings with it that don't require to tie your identity to it.

[bitmover]

Nobody can go to a supermarket and spend USDT. We are not there yet, and probably never will be.

I think that actually depends on where you live.  Believe it or not, you can really buy groceries at some supermarkets and pay with crypto in some parts of the world! 

Where? El Salvador?

I know there are some places like bitrefil where you can get some gift cards for supermarkets.

[Lucius]

Where? El Salvador?
I know there are some places like bitrefil where you can get some gift cards for supermarkets.

El Salvador is an over-hyped story, because I've watched dozens of videos from that country where people try to pay with Bitcoin and the sellers look at them in amazement because they don't know what it's all about. Bitcoin as a legal tender in a country where 70% of the population is practically offline or does not have a bank account is just an interesting story and nothing more.

In the EU, there are many interesting stories about how Bitcoin (as well as other cryptocurrencies) found their way into local economies, but that's not really interesting, is it?

Here, for example, everything you see on these two websites can be ordered and paid for with cryptocurrencies, and is located in one EU member state

Link1
Link2

I really don't understand that. Saylor, what app?
How can I do what you say in practice?

I just wrote to you that you cannot do what Saylor is doing and that his company is much more than investing in Bitcoin. Unless you want to do something radical or maybe even illegal to avoid paying taxes, I suggest you pay 20% of the tax and enjoy the rest of the money. It would be nice to pay 5% or maybe even nothing, but let's be realistic, unless you have a lot of BTC that you want to sell, everything we have written so far is simply not worth it.

[swogerino]

As noted above, ideas 1 and 2 do not exempt you from the obligation to pay, meaning that you would be committing a crime or misdemeanor, depending on the jurisdiction in which you are located and the amounts involved.

As for 3 it also has its drawbacks, and it is not worth doing it for small amounts.

The one I missed in the list is the one popularized by Saylor "borrow against your Bitcoin" and never sell it. If you have enough holdings, you can take a pledged loan for 1% of what you sell and if the price goes up you can keep refinancing, the loan goes down on its own. If it goes down to avoid a margin call you can put in a little more Bitcoin.

Right. Saylor's idea of borrowing against your Bitcoin is gaining popularity. You can use your Bitcoin as collateral to get a loan without selling it and triggering taxes. If Bitcoin's value goes up, you can refinance or pay off the loan, and if it goes down, you can add more Bitcoin to avoid issues. But it's important to manage risks, consider interest rates and understand loan terms. Make sure to consult financial experts who know about crypto lending and taxes before diving in

First time I am hearing about this and looks like the perfect way to invest your Bitcoin without paying taxes.If financial institutions will lend us money and accept Bitcoin as collateral that can open new ways to investing,people who have quite some Bitcoins,like 10 or more in their inventory can use that as a big collateral to lend some good money to invest in real estate first.Meanwhile they can continue their Bitcoin activity,the way how they have made the Bitcoin-s so far,usually with mining most of those who have a lot or some very few of them with trading.This can be going and going and would be a great way to avoid taxes while making money from the real estate you get,in real estate though you can't avoid taxes no matter where you are  .

[Stalker22]

Where? El Salvador?

All over the EU, I believe.
For example, I can say for certain that some physical stores in Germany, Austria, Hungary, and the Czech Republic accept crypto directly on POS terminals. I have used them myself in a few of these countries, and I have heard similar reports from others.

Also, the Slovenian national grocery retail chain "Tuš" introduced crypto payments into its stores by integrating GoCrypto into its cash register since 2019, according to reports.
https://www.gocrypto.com/retail

Looks like Lucius beat me to the punch with Croatia! "Konzum", their national supermarket chain, also accepts cryptocurrency payments across all their local branches.

In our stores you can use 7 different cryptocurrencies - bitcoin (BTC), ether (ETH), bitcoin cash (BCH), EOS, stellar lumen (XLM), ripple (XRP), NEAR.

While in the webshop you can use 13 different cryptocurrencies when paying – bitcoin (BTC), ether (ETH), bitcoin cash (BCH), EOS, DAI, ripple (XRP), stellar lumen (XLM), tether (USDT), USDC, Solana and BUSD (BEP20), kitecoin (LTC) and dogecoin (DOGE).

https://www.konzum.hr/nacini-placanja

[BiTCalt]

Not paying tax won't be easy when your capital grows and you reside in a country where tax is required. If you just want to spend, then you can avoid tax. But if your capital and total assets keep increasing, then tax authorities will identify you and may ask about your income sources. You can trade on Dex without having to use a KYC exchange. But at the end of the day, you have to make it cash. So it will increase your total assets that would be considered for tax and that you would need to explain about your income source. 

You can exchange your BTC for a stablecoin, but what are you going to do with a stablecoin? Can't even buy groceries or buy a hamburger with it. And sure as hell can't buy a house or a decent car. But even if you'll manage to do so, it would attract the attention of IRS or a similar body and the first thing they will ask is where the money came from.

The only viable way is to exchange BTC for cash and make small spendings with it that don't require to tie your identity to it.

I know so for this matter:
- Any safe, reliable and cheap no-KYC exchanges?
- If we do the BTC->DAI exchange in DeFi, which is the best or recommended DEX?
- How to bring BTC safely to the DEX? on which chain? what bridge?
- Maybe the best is to bring BTC on ETH chain, maybe even better on a Layer 2? Optimism or Arbitrum? How to safely bring BTC on this chain?

Technical and maybe so obvious questions but I'm not too expert on this. Any good suggetions (noob friendly)?

I just wrote to you that you cannot do what Saylor is doing and that his company is much more than investing in Bitcoin. Unless you want to do something radical or maybe even illegal to avoid paying taxes, I suggest you pay 20% of the tax and enjoy the rest of the money. It would be nice to pay 5% or maybe even nothing, but let's be realistic, unless you have a lot of BTC that you want to sell, everything we have written so far is simply not worth it.

Ok but it is essential to have the knowledge to be able to choose the right path. Looking for solutions is always useful to anyone who has the same doubts as me.
For ex. now my doubts resides on the technical and practical part of how to exchange BTC -> stable, as I wrote above.

[Lucius]

~snip~
I know so for this matter:
- Any safe, reliable and cheap no-KYC exchanges?
---
Technical and maybe so obvious questions but I'm not too expert on this. Any good suggetions (noob friendly)?

Of course, there are crypto exchanges that do not require KYC and are called decentralized exchanges, but the only way to remain anonymous on them is to sell BTC to someone live face to face - if the money from the sale will be paid to your bank account, then it will depend on the amount if the bank will react and ask where the money comes from, or it will automatically report it to the tax administration/financial police.

You want to be smarter than the system, but all the time you are going in the wrong direction and actually asking the wrong questions. If you want to sell cryptocurrencies and not pay taxes, find someone for a face-to-face transaction, buy virtual Visa cards and spend money online or add them to your mobile wallet and spend anywhere - or move to one of the countries you mentioned.

The fact that you want to convert BTC into stablecoins really doesn't make sense to me, because then what will you do with stablecoins?

[stompix]

The fact that you want to convert BTC into stablecoins really doesn't make sense to me, because then what will you do with stablecoins?

I think his plan is something else, he wants to convert his BTC to USDT and other stable coins in secret and then claim for tax purposes that he has only stable coins, so when liquidating those he will not pay capital gains on it at all, he sells 1$ he bought with 1$ for 1$, in theory, tax-free. But of course, this theory doesn't hold water when it comes to the IRS or whatever it is called in that country, he will still have to make up a story on how he ended up with $100k tether he is liquidating and since he has no receipt for those as in buying with his own money...

OP, just go for face2face deals as Lucius said, exchange 1000 euros here 1000 euros there and use them for daily life purchases, the whole stable coins thing is just an illusion of you managing to cover your tracks.

[Lucius]

~snip~
OP, just go for face2face deals as Lucius said, exchange 1000 euros here 1000 euros there and use them for daily life purchases, the whole stable coins thing is just an illusion of you managing to cover your tracks.

Given that the OP says that he is in the EU, and if we assume that his country is in the Schengen Area, then he can come on a nice vacation to the Adriatic Sea (maybe even pay for the vacation with BTC) and visit physical crypto exchanges where he can sell cryptocurrencies without KYC up to in the amount of 1000 EUR per transaction - and considering that there are more such branches, in a week he can go home with x0 000 EUR - problem solved (unless he does something stupid and buys a new car for cash or something similal - or the OP is a big fish who has at least a million EUR and our advice does not help him at all )

[stompix]

~

Given that the OP says that he is in the EU, and if we assume that his country is in the Schengen Area, then he can come on a nice vacation to the Adriatic Sea (maybe even pay for the vacation with BTC) and visit physical crypto exchanges where he can sell cryptocurrencies without KYC up to in the amount of 1000 EUR per transaction - and considering that there are more such branches, in a week he can go home with x0 000 EUR - problem solved (unless he does something stupid and buys a new car for cash or something similal - or the OP is a big fish who has at least a million EUR and our advice does not help him at all )

To be honest I don't think that he either knows what he wants or that he knows why is seeking these solutions.
He is overcomplicating things, he wants to liquidate but not quite, he wants to exchange but he wants a stable coin, he...

The whole thing started simple, avoid capital taxes on your winnings, the solution is simple, do it in a way in which you leave nowhere your name and avoid being a peacock afterward with the money you've made. I assume he's from Italy, one trip as you said to the Adriatic or to the Visegard countries (Czech Republic and Poland mainly) and he has a hundred ATMs to choose from.