Can we avoid crypto taxes with other users assistance?

[GxSTxV]

Can Tax Obligations be avoided with some help from users living in Tax Free Countries?



As we go deeper and put ourselves in the realm of cryptocurrency world, the issue of taxes remains a pressing problem and concern for investors of countries where they obligate you to pay a percentage of the assets you own. Especially in some regions such as Japan or Belgium, Honestly, what made me think like this is reading about many topics about the new laws and the amount of taxes crypto users are giving to governments including some users in this forum.

Moreover, that's why users are always searching for legitimate or illegitimate ways to reduce their tax obligations. This made me think about collaboration with individuals living in countries where we don't pay any taxes, to offer some insights that might help mitigate tax obligations?

Image source: geekflare.com

[m2017]

The higher the bitcoin's price, the more topics related to taxes from cryptocurrencies appear.

There is one life hack on how to avoid paying taxes on cryptocurrencies. Until you cash out crypto, taxes can't be demanded from you. Therefore, when you want to make any purchase, use all your charm to convince seller to accept payment in crypto.

People who cooperate with in order to avoid taxes on cryptocurrencies will want their commissions and will have to have a heightened sense of fulfilling agreements, otherwise instead of losses of 45-55% on taxes there will be 100%.

Let's say you managed to do this and you end up with the N-th amount of money in a neighboring country received for crypto. How will you legally transport this money to your country (import limits), and also explain the source of the funds? It seems to me that you would come to the same result if you exchanged crypto for cash immediately and directly in your host country.

[franky1]

this is where i see alot of people want to EVADE taxes.. but they need to learn how taxes work.. to then learn the tax avoidance loopholes

tax avoidance is using the tax laws toy your benefit and its legal
tax evasion is breaking tax laws which come with repercussions because its not legal

learn the loop holes your countries have in regards to tax, find the legal ways of transferring value tax free

[selezneve]

Can Tax Obligations be avoided with some help from users living in Tax Free Countries?



As we go deeper and put ourselves in the realm of cryptocurrency world, the issue of taxes remains a pressing problem and concern for investors of countries where they obligate you to pay a percentage of the assets you own. Especially in some regions such as Japan or Belgium, Honestly, what made me think like this is reading about many topics about the new laws and the amount of taxes crypto users are giving to governments including some users in this forum.

Moreover, that's why users are always searching for legitimate or illegitimate ways to reduce their tax obligations. This made me think about collaboration with individuals living in countries where we don't pay any taxes, to offer some insights that might help mitigate tax obligations?

Image source: geekflare.com

Of course , there are professionals who deal in finance who can help you save taxes. Like CAs can help, but you need to hire some guy who has the information related to crypto. This can be a young guy who himself invests in crypto and is aware of all the regulations related to this.

[thecodebear]

The higher the bitcoin's price, the more topics related to taxes from cryptocurrencies appear.

There is one life hack on how to avoid paying taxes on cryptocurrencies. Until you cash out crypto, taxes can't be demanded from you. Therefore, when you want to make any purchase, use all your charm to convince seller to accept payment in crypto.

You still owe taxes on this. This would just make you a tax cheat - a criminal.

Hopefully eventually here in the US (and well, same thing in other countries), Congress will pass a law that exempts purchases of a few hundred dollars or less in bitcoin from being taxed to encourage using bitcoin as payments. It has already been proposed a couple times in Congress though I'm sure it'll be a number of years until enough politicians care about Bitcoin to actually pass such a law. Whenever that happens though that would allow bitcoin to be spent on daily purchases without tax implications. This is a necessary requirement before bitcoin payments can start getting popular because until that happens the two options are you track your profit from every single payment or you are a tax cheat criminal. Of course we've got many years before bitcoin payments are even going to be implemented on the merchant side and until there are enough people who want to spend bitcoin to make payments a regular thing. But until we get such a law you can't simply convince someone to accept bitcoin as payment and now owe taxes on that lol. Let's not promote ideas that screw over people's lives and turn them into criminals. We want Bitcoin to HELP people, not hurt them.

[Dunamisx]

If the amount levied on tax payment is affordable to the people, i don't think they will like to make moves in finding an alternative to wave away the incident of paying for task, the same issues we had when the fiat transaction cost is unbearable that led to the development of a new and alternative means of making payment with bitcoin, so i don't see it a bad idea if we have a means to avoid such but legitimately.

[thecodebear]

this is where i see alot of people want to EVADE taxes.. but they need to learn how taxes work.. to then learn the tax avoidance loopholes

tax avoidance is using the tax laws toy your benefit and its legal
tax evasion is breaking tax laws which come with repercussions because its not legal

learn the loop holes your countries have in regards to tax, find the legal ways of transferring value tax free

exactly.

In the US:

- long term 0% capital gains bracket goes up to the $40,000s, so if you make less then whatever that exact number is in a year in total (including every dollar you've made from wages, trading, selling, whatever), and if you sold some bitcoin in profit that you've been holding for more than a year as part of that, then you are still in the 0% tax bracket for long term capital gains and so you don't pay taxes on that profit

- If you have bought low and high, and the price is in between when you sell some bitcoin, you can sell some of the lower bitcoin in profit, and some of the higher bitcoin for a loss, and if the average profit of all of those sales is less than $0 you don't pay any taxes.

- If you have a Roth IRA or Roth 401k that you contribute to and you buy the BTC ETFs with those, those are tax-advantage accounts so you won't owe any taxes on those when you pass the withdrawal age later in life


Those are the only ones I know of.


As an example of not paying taxes, I sold all the shit altcoins I bought in 2021 for huge losses in 2022 on the crash cuz I was like why did I even buy this crap haha. So now I've got tons of tax losses to use to offset my taxes that I owe each year, until these tax losses from 2022 run out. So in 2022 that cancelled out most of my taxes (I paid $353 in taxes that year), its cancelling out all my taxes in 2023 so I owe nothing. And unless Bitcoin is already peaking by end of this year (in which case I'll be selling some bitcoin) I'll again pay no taxes this year. But of course this is all only because I stupidly thought in 2021 altcoins were gonna start gaining traction long term and I ended up taking a 6 figure loss on that assumption just to get out of that crap. But that mistake allows me to not pay taxes for a few years until I've made back in profit all that I lost.

[AprilioMP]

this is where i see alot of people want to EVADE taxes.. but they need to learn how taxes work.. to then learn the tax avoidance loopholes

tax avoidance is using the tax laws toy your benefit and its legal
tax evasion is breaking tax laws which come with repercussions because its not legal

learn the loop holes your countries have in regards to tax, find the legal ways of transferring value tax free

Because in our place Bitcoin and Crypto are not legal tender but the assets of the commodity that are allowed to be traded, tax cuts are directly imposed when on the exchange.

The two crypto taxes imposed are Value Added Tax (PPN) and Income Tax (PPH) with a magnitude of 0.11% for Value Added Tax (PPN) and 0.1% for Income Tax (PPH) of each transaction.
I do not want to avoid every tax holes because of the tax from the people for the people.

[franky1]

there are many things to look into
such as trusts and foundations (look at how the clintons/gates do things)
things like "personal loans" from your business/trust, to your personal human self
(how politicians get paid from their sidegig businesses they own, out side of the political earnings)
(loans are non taxible. and if you are as a business/trustee the loan provider.. and you are as a person the recipient.. whos gonna complain about the relaxed terms you set for yourself(you wont take yourself to court for non payment))

The two crypto taxes imposed are Value Added Tax (PPN) and Income Tax (PPH) with a magnitude of 0.11% for Value Added Tax (PPN) and 0.1% for Income Tax (PPH) of each transaction.
I do not want to avoid every tax holes because of the tax from the people for the people.

those small tax % we in the UK call things like 'stamp duty' which is imposed on the portfolio manager/exchange service to charge per trade.. not much can be done on that.. plus those amounts are small so you just wait for markets to move by 0.22%(in your case) higher than the sell off price you want, to ensure you get after these small charges, the amount you want.

but on capital gains and income tax of the whole sell of assets. there are some tax efficient avenues to consider

[mindrust]

If you don’t want to pay taxes, move to one of those tax-free countries you mentioned. But then you will quickly find out that these tax-free countries aren’t as good as the high tax countries. If you try to cheat the IRS or whatever tax agency in your country, they will throw you in a jail cell if you get caught.

You want to enjoy the benefits of a developed country which are low crime rate, good healthcare, public schools etc but you don’t want to pay for it. That’s just another form of stealing imo.

[nakamura12]

If you don’t want to pay taxes, move to one of those tax-free countries you mentioned. But then you will quickly find out that these tax-free countries aren’t as good as the high tax countries. If you try to cheat the IRS or whatever tax agency in your country, they will throw you in a jail cell if you get caught.

You want to enjoy the benefits of a developed country which are low crime rate, good healthcare, public schools etc but you don’t want to pay for it. That’s just another form of stealing imo.

Maybe he wants to do illegal activities or criminal activities that's why he doesn't want to pay taxes. Taxes helps government build something like new building for school, fixing road and many more. I think I'll wait for a little bit for OP to clarify his intention of not wanting to pay taxes. I can't imagine what will happen to a country where the citizens doesn't pay taxes. I am sure there are people who will do bad things.

[darkangel11]

learn the loop holes your countries have in regards to tax, find the legal ways of transferring value tax free

Sometimes it's easier to move to another country than fight and use loopholes to get 10% reduction on your 40% tax. When all dust settles you'll still have to pay 30% or 20% which is a lot if you have a few million in profit.
I've been avoiding taxes all my life because I believe that progressive tax is unjust and it's a remnant of communism and socialism that we used to criticize so much. For those who don't know what progressive taxation is, you have to pay higher tax if you make what the government considers too much. This means that you have to be average, or you'll get punished for being too good at what you're doing. If you make $100k a year, or more you won't have to pay the rate everybody else pay, but double that, so the government will often steal more than half of your profit just because it can.
Bottom line, if you live in a country where there's tax higher than 20% regardless of how much you're making, leave and go somewhere else. They can't stop you. It's either this or enjoy being treated like a slave.

 

[Rengga Jati]

Can Tax Obligations be avoided with some help from users living in Tax Free Countries?

Seeing this, I felt a little relieved, because the TX here is not that big. Really, I think, that's a very high amount, isn't it? However, we still don't really understand how tax is determined and calculated in each country.

Because indeed, the more the government looks at Bitcoin and crypto as a whole, the more eager they are to make various regulations. the end of which, again, is taxes. For this reason, it cannot be denied that there are many parties who hide or manipulate their assets as much as possible in order to avoid taxes. And is this possible?

[The Cryptovator]

It seems they almost charge 50% tax on crypto earnings, which is pretty high. That's the reason why most citizens are discouraged from paying taxes legally. However, if you reside there, there is no way to avoid crypto tax if you have been using a centralised platform. They have to submit a tax report if authorities ask them to. So it's better to comply with the rules where you are living right now. If you want to skip or avoid tax, then you have to use a decentralised platform to handle your assets and deal p2p when you want to cash out. But it's always better to get advice from a tax lawyer. They could advise you on a on a better way to solve the tax issues. 

[Fiatless]

Seeking for means to invade tax is not appropriate because it is a crime to invade tax. However, tax avoidance is an ideal means it bypassing tax legitimately.  In my country using P2P for Bitcoin transactions is an appropriate means of avoiding tax because our country's laws on cryptocurrency have not covered such kind of tax. You would be taxed when you use centralized platforms for crypto transactions. I also know that super-rich people avoid taxes by registering companies in tax havens which they can use for tax avoidance. It is not a bad idea to collaborate to avoid taxes but how can we locate trustworthy people? People might use this chance to scam people.  

[PX-Z]

That tax percentage is unjust, even if its annual or even if it's quarterly, how much more if its per transaction of what. Although its unlawful for tax evasion, i guess it's more reasonable if its the case. Crypto is just any money, tax someone if someone bought goods and service with it.
But if authorities are that greedy, expect their people will avoid those tax. Lol.

[oktana]

~~~
Let's say you managed to do this and you end up with the N-th amount of money in a neighboring country received for crypto. How will you legally transport this money to your country (import limits), and also explain the source of the funds? It seems to me that you would come to the same result if you exchanged crypto for cash immediately and directly in your host country.

It’s possible but then you’d have to take your money out in bits, not necessarily small bits but a decent amount you don’t have to prove you own. And one can use this money for payment that’s needed in fiat. While using the other cryptocurrency on platforms that accept it as a form of payment. And I don’t think it is illegal or is it? Or what if you have someone outside who send the money as fiat often? Could be family who’s giving you money.

[tyz]

As we go deeper and put ourselves in the realm of cryptocurrency world, the issue of taxes remains a pressing problem and concern for investors of countries where they obligate you to pay a percentage of the assets you own. Especially in some regions such as Japan or Belgium, Honestly, what made me think like this is reading about many topics about the new laws and the amount of taxes crypto users are giving to governments including some users in this forum.

When you make such comparisons, there is often a misunderstanding. These are not just taxes, but in many countries also include insurance for pensions, health and long-term care insurance, which guarantee a certain level of protection.

For example. In Germany, crypto profits are completely tax-free for a holding period of 1+ year (as far as I know, there is no other country where this is the case). If you sell them within the one year, then the personal tax rate on the profits applies, and this can be between 0% and 45%, with only around 22% of the 45% being pure income tax. The remaining 23% are various obligatory insurances as mentioned above.

[franky1]

learn the loop holes your countries have in regards to tax, find the legal ways of transferring value tax free

Sometimes it's easier to move to another country than fight and use loopholes to get 10% reduction on your 40% tax. When all dust settles you'll still have to pay 30% or 20% which is a lot if you have a few million in profit.
I've been avoiding taxes all my life because I believe that progressive tax is unjust and it's a remnant of communism and socialism that we used to criticize so much. For those who don't know what progressive taxation is, you have to pay higher tax if you make what the government considers too much. This means that you have to be average, or you'll get punished for being too good at what you're doing. If you make $100k a year, or more you won't have to pay the rate everybody else pay, but double that, so the government will often steal more than half of your profit just because it can.
Bottom line, if you live in a country where there's tax higher than 20% regardless of how much you're making, leave and go somewhere else. They can't stop you. It's either this or enjoy being treated like a slave.

you think billgates, zuckerburg, clintons, trump pay 30% instead of 40%
no, they learn* tax law and pay under 5% (use accountants to file their self assessments instead of physically self assessing themselves)
and they pay this lower 5% just as a gratuity to say they pay something. but they could get that number to 0%

its not a fact that there is a progressive tax.. it is however a fact that there is a progressive tax for those that dont even try to learn their tax adjustable's, tax exemptions and tax avoidance's.. so its the average joe that gets affected by just paying the rate they get told rather then work out the most efficient economics of their value to pay the minimums

[AmoreJaz]

That tax percentage is unjust, even if its annual or even if it's quarterly, how much more if its per transaction of what. Although its unlawful for tax evasion, i guess it's more reasonable if its the case. Crypto is just any money, tax someone if someone bought goods and service with it.
But if authorities are that greedy, expect their people will avoid those tax. Lol.

I can understand a lot of crypto users are avoiding the taxes by all means. Because it is crypto, and we don't want the government to meddle our crypto dealings. But as the government is getting acquainted with crypto market, and so their taxation protocols or regulations, thus, they are slowly implementing how taxation works on this market.

I think we can't totally avoid this from happening. Time is coming for this taxation protocols as they are clearing out what the market is.