Rant-Hardware Wallet Physical Quality

[DaveF]

My guess is that you are just unlucky or you break them intentionally to complain about it on Bitcointalk.

Am I the only one here who hasn't experienced any devastating issues with the hardware wallets I own? My Nano S is still working fine. I am talking about the physical device itself, before anyone mentions the data leaks. One thing I have noticed is that LL isn't displaying the correct balance for my crypto anymore, but that's because I haven't updated it in months, ever since I first heard about the Ledger Recover vulnerability.

My Trezor One is also working as it should. My only complain is the weird mouse issue that prevents me to work the Trezor Suite with my mouse connected to my laptop. But I am sure it's a compatibility issue with this mouse model. I am also not a fan of the small characters on the screen when confirming transaction data.

I am planning to add a third device to my personal portfolio soon - a signing device.

As I posted above I have 2 older devices that still work fine. (keepkey and ColdCard Mk1) but as I get more and play and use them the new ones just seem to be less well made.

So a bit of a rant here, but has the physical quality of all HW wallets crap. Or is it just me?

Two trezors with bad USB ports

From all hardware wallets I heard minimal complains for Trezor devices, only issue I have with them is short USB cable.

And wait for it....the only one that I kind of killed myself was an old Keystone that when we moved offices I didn't remember where I put it and it (1) sat in freezing temperatures for a couple of weeks and then (2) wound up bouncing off a cement floor when it fell out of the box it was in since I didn't remember putting in in there. So now that one does not turn on either. But that I will put on me. I thought it was in the lockbox but I must have put it in box with other collectables when moving for some reason.

Why didn't you talk with Keystone support?
They should send you refund or new Keystone3 device.

I know of one other person who had the same USB issue with their Trezor, so it's not just me. But, I don't pay attention to the Trazor stuff that much.

Wanted to try a couple of things with the Keystone before taking it apart. I don't NEED another device, and would like to see how well the self destruct works on this one.
It was not that much $ since I got it as a black Friday sale.
 
-Dave

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[Pmalek]

Meet the most stringent safety requirements, particularly in the military sector

so they have blueprints of this military-grade thing uploaded somewhere right? hehe

Don't fall for that 'military-grade standard' or 'bank-vault security' slogans that companies and individuals like to boast with. They are just empty words meant to draw attention and make them seem better and more important than they are. Despite all those bank-grade security systems, banks all over the world keep getting hacked and experience leaks all over the place. 

[dkbit98]

Wanted to try a couple of things with the Keystone before taking it apart. I don't NEED another device, and would like to see how well the self destruct works on this one.
It was not that much $ since I got it as a black Friday sale.

OK, but I am sure they will give you a refund if you contact them, since they have 2 year warranty.

However, if you do manage to disassemble it, please post some updates and photos for inside components.
It would be interesting to see what battery models they are using, and to compare difference with older Keystone internals.

[DaveF]

Wanted to try a couple of things with the Keystone before taking it apart. I don't NEED another device, and would like to see how well the self destruct works on this one.
It was not that much $ since I got it as a black Friday sale.

OK, but I am sure they will give you a refund if you contact them, since they have 2 year warranty.

However, if you do manage to disassemble it, please post some updates and photos for inside components.
It would be interesting to see what battery models they are using, and to compare difference with older Keystone internals.

So because the battery was not working I had it on a USB cable and forgot about it.

I then wound up knocking it off the desk and put a small crack in the screen but the touch part stopped working.
So here it is in all it's glory while waiting for a new screen and battery from some sketchy seller in China

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I kind of see your point, OP....but on the other hand, relative to HW wallets' prices I think buyers are probably getting what they're paying for.  If you look at the quality of a new Android or iPhone and then look at the price of either one of those, it's the same thing IMO.

That said, with the HW wallets I've played around with in the past I never really had any problems with them being cheaply made, like some piece of crap you'd order from Amazon, and you can get a decent one that works (like a Jade or Bitbox) without breaking your bank.  I guess this is one of those issues where your mileage may vary.  And I might add that even a Keepkey is pretty well designed and inexpensive, but unfortunately it's just a worthless black bricklet.

[tenant48]

So because the battery was not working I had it on a USB cable and forgot about it.

I then wound up knocking it off the desk and put a small crack in the screen but the touch part stopped working.
So here it is in all it's glory while waiting for a new screen and battery from some sketchy seller in China

Thank you for publishing a photo of the insides of Keystone 3. If you have a tester, could you measure the voltage from the element (in the yellow film), as well as from the main battery (1000 mAh), to understand why your Keystone stopped charging?

[DaveF]

...

Thank you for publishing a photo of the insides of Keystone 3. If you have a tester, could you measure the voltage from the element (in the yellow film), as well as from the main battery (1000 mAh), to understand why your Keystone stopped charging?

As they say on Star Trek.
"He's dead Jim. Grab his wallet, I'll get his phaser."





Once it stops raining I am going to cut the leads off the lithium pack and see if I can put voltage into it. But I want to do it outside just in case something goes wrong.
The fact that the 3V battery is also just about dead is probably not great either. And it's soldered in.

-Dave

[tenant48]

The fact that the 3V battery is also just about dead is probably not great either. And it's soldered in.

I was also surprised that in a practically new device this battery has a voltage of only 0.7V. It's quite possible that it failed and led to the controller refusing to charge the main battery. I don’t understand why it was necessary to use it in the circuit if there is already a much more powerful non-removable battery, which shouldn't be allowed to discharge to 0 volts.

[DaveF]

The fact that the 3V battery is also just about dead is probably not great either. And it's soldered in.

I was also surprised that in a practically new device this battery has a voltage of only 0.7V. It's quite possible that it failed and led to the controller refusing to charge the main battery. I don’t understand why it was necessary to use it in the circuit if there is already a much more powerful non-removable battery, which shouldn't be allowed to discharge to 0 volts.

That becomes part of the fun part now.

1) Did a bad 3v cause an issue?

2) Did the main pack go bad and internally and when it dropped to 0 cause an issue?

3) Did something else on the board go bad and just put a parasitic drain on the entire thing till it all stopped working?

4) Design flaw someplace?

5) Odd software bug that caused a lockup with the screen off that even though it was running at full speed?

6) Am I just cursed with these things?

7) Other?

-Dave

[dkbit98]

I then wound up knocking it off the desk and put a small crack in the screen but the touch part stopped working.
So here it is in all it's glory while waiting for a new screen and battery from some sketchy seller in China

Are you sure that you didnt just brick the device and triggered self-destruction protection mechanism when you opened the device?

I am not expecting superior quality from $100 device but I would suggest having some kind of case protection for device.
Strange that Keystone didnt already release some accessories like silicone case, screen protection foil, etc. but you can create your own DIY protection stuff.

2) Did the main pack go bad and internally and when it dropped to 0 cause an issue?

There is a issue with many modern Lithium batteries, especially if they are not used for a while.

[DaveF]

Are you sure that you didnt just brick the device and triggered self-destruction protection mechanism when you opened the device?

When I put it back together and apply usb power it asks for a PIN so I'm guessing no the destruct did not trigger.
BUT....the touch stopped responding when it went off the desk and I never added a fingerprint so all I can do is look at it till the new screen comes in. So I could eventually put in a PIN and get nothing.

Finding the screen was a PITA since there was no part number that went to anything that I could find. Had to go to some LCD place in China that a friend of a friend knew kind of thing. No idea if it's even going to work. Just had the same connector and size and was IPS they sent me to their AliExpress link which have since gone away so either I got scammed or it was a link for just me to use.

There is a issue with many modern Lithium batteries, especially if they are not used for a while.

I was using it, so at most it was 10 days.
It was used a day or 2 before this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5459011.msg63794979#msg63794979 so at that point it did work and have enough power to turn on.
Would like to think I would have seen a low battery warning but who knows. So figure the 10th of March.

It was DEAD by the time I started this thread. So the 20th of March.

So from working to not even taking a charge in 10 days.

-Dave

Back of the screen....Can anyone find one?

[tenant48]

That becomes part of the fun part now.

1) Did a bad 3v cause an issue?

2) Did the main pack go bad and internally and when it dropped to 0 cause an issue?

3) Did something else on the board go bad and just put a parasitic drain on the entire thing till it all stopped working?

4) Design flaw someplace?

5) Odd software bug that caused a lockup with the screen off that even though it was running at full speed?

6) Am I just cursed with these things?

7) Other?

-Dave

1) Poor battery voltage (0.7 volts) could be the cause of the issue if this voltage is insufficient for the normal operation of the device or its components, which may rely on the battery to support certain functions such as data storage or maintaining real-time clock.

2) If the main lithium battery failed and its voltage dropped to 0 volts, this could result in a loss of power to key components of the device, which in turn could cause problems with charging and overall operation of the device. Typically, charge controllers stop charging the battery if the voltage drops below a certain level. This problem occurred in the Ledger nano X, it was enough to disassemble the wallet, slightly recharge the built-in battery from an external source, and the wallet would start charging again.

3) It is possible that something on the device's circuit board malfunctioned, leading to parasitic leakage or a short circuit, which could result in device malfunction. It would be a good idea to install working batteries and check the currents with a tester.

4) Design error could also be a contributing factor, especially considering the prevalence of the issue as reported on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/KeystoneWallet/comments/18hm13d/keystone_3_pro_battery_not_charging/?rdt=52582

5) It could be a software bug that caused the device to freeze with the screen off. However, this doesn't explain the charging issue and battery condition, so it may have been just one of the problems with the wallet.

6) Unlikely

[DaveF]

So this thing is fucked.

The battery pack is 100% dead and will not take any kind of charge.
Put it into a treadmill that has the same size and connector with a 1200MAH battery and let it sit since early this morning and nothing.
Tried to apply power directly to it and let it sit for 20 minutes and nothing.
OK fine...it's dead.

The next test. Put the treadmill battery pack into the keystone and it will not power on.
Apply USB power to the keystone and it comes on.

Check the leads going to the battery and it's putting out voltage but nothing works without the USB power.

Put that pack back into the treadmill that it came out of and it's charging fine.

Next step is getting a CR20xx battery and replacing the one that is only putting out 0.7v

At this point I'm probably not going to do that until when and if the replacement screen shows up.

-Dave

[tenant48]

The next test. Put the treadmill battery pack into the keystone and it will not power on.
Apply USB power to the keystone and it comes on.

Check the leads going to the battery and it's putting out voltage but nothing works without the USB power.

Put that pack back into the treadmill that it came out of and it's charging fine.

Most likely the charge controller has already marked the battery as faulty. The same thing happened when trying to change broken cells in laptop batteries.
To prevent the controller from marking the battery as non-working, when replacing the cell to be replaced, it is necessary to apply voltage from an external source to the place of the replaced cell and only then replace the faulty cell. But this will help only if the cell is changed due to partial loss of its capacity, if the cell is down to 0 volts, this method will not help.

[DaveF]

The next test. Put the treadmill battery pack into the keystone and it will not power on.
Apply USB power to the keystone and it comes on.

Check the leads going to the battery and it's putting out voltage but nothing works without the USB power.

Put that pack back into the treadmill that it came out of and it's charging fine.

Most likely the charge controller has already marked the battery as faulty. The same thing happened when trying to change broken cells in laptop batteries.
To prevent the controller from marking the battery as non-working, when replacing the cell to be replaced, it is necessary to apply voltage from an external source to the place of the replaced cell and only then replace the faulty cell. But this will help only if the cell is changed due to partial loss of its capacity, if the cell is down to 0 volts, this method will not help.

Still does not explain the unit not powering up using the other known good battery other then the 0.7V issue on the coin cell.
Either way, the main battery goes into the fireproof bucket to be recycled and the keystone goes into the cabinet waiting for the screen.

Thanks everyone, will update when the parts come in.

-Dave

[satscraper]

@DaveF, on the board  of  Keystone 3 you have presented I have noticed the strange (at least for me) stuff, namely Motor.  Never thought that any  hardware wallet could contain such gimmick.  Just of my curiosity, what it is for? And the other question. Have I understood correctly that 3 V battery is tightly soldered to board so that it can't be removed from its cell?

[DaveF]

@DaveF, on the board  of  Keystone 3 you have presented I have noticed the strange (at least for me) stuff, namely Motor.  Never thought that any  hardware wallet could contain such gimmick.  Just of my curiosity, what it is for? And the other question. Have I understood correctly that 3 V battery is tightly soldered to board so that it can't be removed from its cell?

Yes the 3V is soldered to the board. But it looks like it can be desoldered easily enough and I can put another one on.
https://www.amazon.com/EEMB-CR2032-Non-Rechargeable-Batteries-CR2032-VBY2/dp/B095P2MJZV?th=1
The advantage doing it that way it's probably a bit cheaper then putting in a socket and running the risk of something going wrong with that.
The disadvantage is what you see, in that if you have to replace it more work is involved.
But since this is supposed to be a sealed unit that you never open I can see the logic in using the soldered in one.

The motor is for haptic feedback, it just gives a bit of vibration when you do some things.

-Dave