TimeLock for 40 years payday?

[amr1001]

Hello,

I have wired idea I want to apply on myself. To Control my spending as I spend alot of money.

As I am 40 years now, I want to buy a new bitcoin wallet, send bitcoin with timelock to a bitcoin address I have, distrubuted for the next 40 years, that on daily basis ( or monthly or Weekly)  I get some bitcoin for the coming 40 years.

Once I done this, I will destroy the new wallet along with the pass seeds, that I cannot change the programming ever!

I can do this with both bitcoin and bitcoin cash, in this way I have income for the "Rest of my life".

It will be hard to do via trezor a daily transactions for 40 years, but maybe monthly or yearly, unless there is technical way to programe it.

Please let me know what you think and ideas for implementation.

Best Regards,
Anas

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[apogio]

Hi.

So, if I get it correctly, you want to create daily transactions with timelock, so that you can broadcast each one of them on its specific day?

Something like:
Tx1, timelock for March 23rd
Tx2, timelock for March 24th
And so on?

Technically you can do it, but there are 2 issues:
1. Programming time locks for 40 years on a daily basis is very time consuming.
2. You will need too many transactions if you pay yourself daily.

[Kruw]

It's an interesting idea, but there's a couple of problems with this:

- You can't change the fee rate of the presigned transactions. This means you will either be overpaying to get into a block, or underpaying (which would require you to CPFP from the destination wallet, which is just another way to overpay).
- The security model of the wallet that receives the presigned funds is very tricky - it effectively controls all of your funds, so you should give it the same security as your most serious cold storage. However, since you will presumably be spending from this wallet on a daily basis, it would become tiresome if this wallet were cold.

[Maus0728]

Or maybe OP, you can learn to say no to some things, I assume that the reason that you're spending too much money not because you're spending it on yourself but because you're eager to spend money for someone else, be it for an individual or an occassion, maybe if you do that and you being able to learn to backpedal with your expenses, you'd probably make some progress, as @apogio pointed out, it's really difficult to do what you're doing and time consuming so I elected you to offer a solution that's much better because you still be able to use the money and it's at your disposal, you won't be having any issues with it and you're not worried for emergencies.

[btc78]

So you will basically be paying yourself every day for the next 40 years or so?

Well it depends on how much you will be giving yourself but daily seems a little too wasteful. Maybe you can do every 2 weeks which is usually how paydays go anyway. The 15th and the 30th. I have mixed feelings about this idea, though. I also have a hard time maintaining my finances but this type of program’s not gonna work with me because I might not have a consistent income. I wouldn’t want to keep “paying” myself when I have no more actual money of my own. 

[pinggoki]

Or maybe OP, you can learn to say no to some things, I assume that the reason that you're spending too much money not because you're spending it on yourself but because you're eager to spend money for someone else, be it for an individual or an occassion, maybe if you do that and you being able to learn to backpedal with your expenses, you'd probably make some progress, as @apogio pointed out, it's really difficult to do what you're doing and time consuming so I elected you to offer a solution that's much better because you still be able to use the money and it's at your disposal, you won't be having any issues with it and you're not worried for emergencies.

I can agree with this one, definitely a better deal to learn how you can manage your finances than restrict yourself with money that you could've used for emergencies as @Maus0728 has pointed out and OP either you're a rich man or a well to do with your finances that you've got a lot of excess money to do this kind of thing. For me, even though I've been a hodler for a really long time, I think that I won't be able to do a 40 year restriction on my bitcoins, I like to at least enjoy whenever I feel like I've profited enough already so that's why I can't do anything like that but if you're going to push for it OP, I wish you all the best and I do hope that you'd find a way to make things work for you. Maybe consider also what others have said about this thing that you're doing, you don't want to be starting something and then end up not committing to it because at the middle of this journey, you've found some problems, do your utmost consideration of many factors before committing OP.

[SilverCryptoBullet]

40 years time lock is too long time and I see it risky.

Using Locktime for inheritance planning, backups or gifts

Many things can happen in 40 years and you will need to guide your family members about necessary steps to get access to your bitcoin in future through Recovery sheet.

[peter0425]

It is sad that you have reached that age and until now don't know how to manage your own financial aspect and need to ask others to decide for you , and also your main problem here is that you cannot handle expenses in which will surely bring you to spending much.
why not first learn and understand yourself/ I mean have a deep breath and take time knowing what is important for daily basis that you need to spend first and let go of other desires that you will not be needing that specific time? i also have this attitude when i am single but this change when i got married and start to have my family, because my prior spending is for my family and not mine.

[apogio]

Now that I am thinking about it a bit more, there is also another risk.
Timelock will indeed not let you spend the UTXOs until a specific date has come, but you are certainly able to spend the UTXOs using coin control. This way, the time locked transaction will become invalid because one of the UTXOs will be spent.

What I mean is, if you are able to create a timelocked transaction you are also able to render it unusable by spending some of the UTXOs that are included in the inputs of the TX.

So time lock will not stop your urge to spend more...

[vjudeu]

but you are certainly able to spend the UTXOs using coin control

It depends, how it will be locked. Because you have three options:

1) transaction locktime field
2) OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY
3) OP_CHECKSEQUENCEVERIFY

And then, it is possible to put a lock on the output, instead of putting it on the transaction.

You will need too many transactions if you pay yourself daily.

It depends. Because it is possible to write double spends. So, it is possible to make it more flexible, if you would have one transaction, sending you some coins today, and another transaction, sending twice as much tomorrow, but using the same inputs. Then, if you don't need those coins, you can wait, and save on transaction fees.

But yes, predicting all scenarios require creating a lot of transactions. Unless there will be SIGHASH_ANYPREVOUT, or unless you use tricks like Homomorphic Encryption.

[ABCbits]

Hello,

I have wired idea I want to apply on myself. To Control my spending as I spend alot of money.

As I am 40 years now, I want to buy a new bitcoin wallet, send bitcoin with timelock to a bitcoin address I have, distrubuted for the next 40 years, that on daily basis ( or monthly or Weekly)  I get some bitcoin for the coming 40 years.
--snip--

You better off learn some self-control. And aside from technical difficulty and TX fee mentioned by other user, who knows if you suddenly in condition where you need tons of money, but you can't sell your Bitcoin to cover that needs.

[apogio]

And aside from technical difficulty and TX fee mentioned by other user, who knows if you suddenly in condition where you need tons of money, but you can't sell your Bitcoin to cover that needs.

This is in fact the most important problem. It applies to any type of money that someone has put aside. You can have money in the bank. There is no reason at all, in accumulating money (in any format) if you can't use it to cover a sudden need. Money need liquidity.

OP the only solution to your problem is to spend less. If you have any kind of addiction that pushes you to spend, then it's a severe problem and you need to contact someone. If you just spend, stop it.

[gunhell16]

Hello,

I have wired idea I want to apply on myself. To Control my spending as I spend alot of money.

As I am 40 years now, I want to buy a new bitcoin wallet, send bitcoin with timelock to a bitcoin address I have, distrubuted for the next 40 years, that on daily basis ( or monthly or Weekly)  I get some bitcoin for the coming 40 years.

Once I done this, I will destroy the new wallet along with the pass seeds, that I cannot change the programming ever!

I can do this with both bitcoin and bitcoin cash, in this way I have income for the "Rest of my life".

It will be hard to do via trezor a daily transactions for 40 years, but maybe monthly or yearly, unless there is technical way to programe it.

Please let me know what you think and ideas for implementation.

Best Regards,
Anas

If you do that or start that, all I can tell you is that you are cruel. Do you do daily transactions through DCA? Doesn't that seem tiring? Why don't you just do it once a week or
twice a month like that?

After all, you're going to do that for 40 years, and I think you can really do that, and you just have to be careful where you keep your trezor wallet, because it's actually a pretty good plan, and that's the extent of your plan, to be honest.

[LoyceV]

If you have to ask, you probably shouldn't do this.

Things to think about:
Daily transactions mean daily transaction fees. 40x365=14600. To create that many transactions, you'll need that many different inputs. Or you need to build a long chain of transactions starting from the first one, spending your own change again.
You have no idea what fee you'll need 20 years from now. You may be overspending, or it could be too low to be able to  broadcast the transaction.
What if 20 years from now the Bitcoin protocol needs an update? Let's say you get 5 years to transfer all coins to a new quantum resistant encryption. Or the block time changes which changes your time lock?
I'll suggest what I've suggested before: it may be better to bury your private keys. If they're 20 meters under ground and it takes you 2 weeks to get there, you won't be spending it without thinking about it.
Or just work on your self control. Proper offline cold storage with offline signing is a lot more work than a hardware wallet.
What if a Fork happens in the future, and you can't sign a compatible transaction anymore?

[pooya87]

I can do this with both bitcoin and bitcoin cash, in this way I have income for the "Rest of my life".

It will be hard to do via trezor a daily transactions for 40 years, but maybe monthly or yearly, unless there is technical way to programe it.

There is no method in Bitcoin protocol to perform automated payments. All you can do is to lock your coins up for until a certain time and then spend them manually yourself at any time bigger than or equal to that datetime value.

And bitcoin cash, really? You want to bag hold a shitcoin that has been constantly dumping ever since it was created in 2017 for another 40 years? This is a lot weirder than your idea

I want to buy a new bitcoin wallet

You don't buy a bitcoin wallet, you create one!

[348Judah]

As I am 40 years now, I want to buy a new bitcoin wallet, send bitcoin with timelock to a bitcoin address I have, distrubuted for the next 40 years, that on daily basis ( or monthly or Weekly)  I get some bitcoin for the coming 40 years.

That means you're 40 years already and want to do this for 40 years, it's such a good idea, but i will only suggest that you aim at doing this kind for an inheritance than having it as your own personal plan for interest, i guess by then you would have been 80 years old and how many years will be left for you to start enjoying the benefits together with your children, it's never a bad idea, but you can plan the two together, for yourself and the inheritance plan in case.

I can do this with both bitcoin and bitcoin cash, in this way I have income for the "Rest of my life".

Just know this that bitcoin cash is not bitcoin, if you're considering bitcoin which is a decentralized digital currency, the idea on BCH may not be included in this.

[Uhwuchukwu53]

Or maybe OP, you can learn to say no to some things, I assume that the reason that you're spending too much money not because you're spending it on yourself but because you're eager to spend money for someone else, be it for an individual or an occassion, maybe if you do that and you being able to learn to backpedal with your expenses, you'd probably make some progress, as @apogio pointed out, it's really difficult to do what you're doing and time consuming so I elected you to offer a solution that's much better because you still be able to use the money and it's at your disposal, you won't be having any issues with it and you're not worried for emergencies.

I do much agree with you, the best option is resistance to that force of wasteful spend, by totally identifying the area of recklessness in spending, and isolate, your budget and avoid any activity leading to such spending.
Most time it  may not be conducive but for the sake of freeing self from been addicted to unsafe behavior avoidance is necessary.

[Lucius]

As I am 40 years now, I want to buy a new bitcoin wallet, send bitcoin with timelock to a bitcoin address I have, distrubuted for the next 40 years, that on daily basis ( or monthly or Weekly)  I get some bitcoin for the coming 40 years.
~snip~

You have a clue from the future about how many years you will live or you have chosen a number that you like? It seems a bit frivolous to me, because theoretically you can live another 60 years, but also maybe death knocks on the door much sooner than you expect - because life is like that, unpredictable. Learn to control yourself, I think it's the best method, which is actually very simple and free.

You don't buy a bitcoin wallet, you create one!

It is possible that he meant a hardware wallet, given that he mentions Trezor. But maybe someone reading this will come up with the idea of making a hardware wallet that could be programmed in some simple way to "release" a certain amount of BTC in a certain period of time regardless of all the problems that can arise from such a setup.

[pooya87]

But maybe someone reading this will come up with the idea of making a hardware wallet that could be programmed in some simple way to "release" a certain amount of BTC in a certain period of time regardless of all the problems that can arise from such a setup.

They could but such features aren't popular enough to warrant a developer's time to build it, not to mention that such a setup would rely on user only using that hardware wallet and nothing else. This idea would then create a contradiction since you'd normally need to keep a backup of your seed phrase and if you have that you can recover your funds in another wallet (like Electrum) which would make the first feature pointless.

[Cricktor]

I'd rather work on self-control than try to implement something that potentially could break in the next 40 years. Bitcoin is now in existance for just 15 years, it matures slowly, but it's not possible to predict how it will be in the next decades.

If you stick to your excuses and can't control yourself, then how about involving someone you trust to control in a more reliable way. This of course depends heavily on the necessity to have someone or multiple persons to trust.

You could use e.g. a 2-of-2-multisig wallet: you hold one part of it and multiple people you know and trust hold the other part of it. No single party can spend alone, you have to co-operate to spend. (Multiple other people holding the other part for redundancy reason, to avoid a single party besides you messing up. If you mess up, it's your own fault, no-one else to blame.)

You give the other multisig-wallet part holders clear instructions and rules to sign a transaction weekly or monthly for you (just don't go the daily way, if you can't cope with a weekly or montly payment schedule, you're in serious trouble).

That way you can still react properly to changes in Bitcoin and sudden changes or needs in your life. Things can change sometimes drastically, who knows what will be in the future.