Claw Machines: a category of gambling?

[Muchiratsky]

For me claw machines require little skill to play, as everything depends from how owner set claw strength. User can simply randomly move controller and randomly choose item. If claw closing strength is enough, it will hold the prize like close grip. But in most cases we see how claw shakes and drops the prize the next second claw was closed. However that is ok. Low skill requirement is perfect for everyone to try to win the prize.

How does one determine though if the claw strength can be adjusted or controlled? I've tried all those YouTube hacks in claw machines including the ones you've mentioned but I just end up being frustrated with my tokens gone. I do see some people being able to get small prices but the ones that are a bit pricey? Haven't seen any take home a price. I look at it as a scam because I haven't won anything from the time I started playing, lol.

If you havent wont anything that does not mean this is a scam. You have said it yourself - you saw people winning small prizes. Claw machines are sort of gambling, when you know the machine is rigged, you know that owner is going to cheat you, but you still try your luck and try to get the prize with minimum attempts. It is possible to get any prize from that machine, gamblers just need to be more persistent. A lot of people try to get prize with first attempts, with spare change they have, as well as they dont this game serious. That is why they lose and call it scam. I dont use this machines frequent, as I rarely have coins and they dont accept cards. But in a tourist places abroad, I have managed to get plush toys several times.

I didn't say it's an actual scam, though. It's a personal point of view, and I'm sure I'm not the only one seeing it that way. Also, being persistent means spending more time and money on something that would probably be cheaper if you buy directly. You'll be spending a lot more trying to get plush toys from claw machines than buying these toys from actual toy stores. There are people who are good in playing claw machines but I'll bet there are a whole lot more who just end up spending on tokens and getting nothing. It's generally a good place to waste time and money. Note the term "waste"

[Oilacris]

For me claw machines require little skill to play, as everything depends from how owner set claw strength. User can simply randomly move controller and randomly choose item. If claw closing strength is enough, it will hold the prize like close grip. But in most cases we see how claw shakes and drops the prize the next second claw was closed. However that is ok. Low skill requirement is perfect for everyone to try to win the prize.

How does one determine though if the claw strength can be adjusted or controlled? I've tried all those YouTube hacks in claw machines including the ones you've mentioned but I just end up being frustrated with my tokens gone. I do see some people being able to get small prices but the ones that are a bit pricey? Haven't seen any take home a price. I look at it as a scam because I haven't won anything from the time I started playing, lol.

If you havent wont anything that does not mean this is a scam. You have said it yourself - you saw people winning small prizes. Claw machines are sort of gambling, when you know the machine is rigged, you know that owner is going to cheat you, but you still try your luck and try to get the prize with minimum attempts. It is possible to get any prize from that machine, gamblers just need to be more persistent. A lot of people try to get prize with first attempts, with spare change they have, as well as they dont this game serious. That is why they lose and call it scam. I dont use this machines frequent, as I rarely have coins and they dont accept cards. But in a tourist places abroad, I have managed to get plush toys several times.

I didn't say it's an actual scam, though. It's a personal point of view, and I'm sure I'm not the only one seeing it that way. Also, being persistent means spending more time and money on something that would probably be cheaper if you buy directly. You'll be spending a lot more trying to get plush toys from claw machines than buying these toys from actual toy stores. There are people who are good in playing claw machines but I'll bet there are a whole lot more who just end up spending on tokens and getting nothing. It's generally a good place to waste time and money. Note the term "waste"

Scam words into those people who are really that been trying out to get something out of those claw machines but still end up on failing just like me but i dont have those kind of views  but there are really moments that you could really say that it was rigged or not really be possible on getting one and this is why you cant really be getting one which there are those times.
Although you have seen someone who do able to pull one on which you would really be making yourself having that kind of persevering on getting one too.

Can it be considered gambling? Well it would really be just that depending into your approach because if you are making up some paying up for the sake of fun and there
are ones who do make out some bets on getting something. It would really be just that depending on how someone will really be treating up this one.

[moneystery]

i think that the claw machine is a type of gambling, because you bet a certain amount of money to be able to move the machine to get various prizes in it. but some people say it is a game based on skill, others say it is luck. personally, i would say it is both, because each machine can be different depending on the developer. there are machines that can be easily moved and get prizes if we understand the tricks, but there are also machines that are quite difficult to get prizes in. so it can vary depending on the machine.

[nullama]

i think that the claw machine is a type of gambling, because you bet a certain amount of money to be able to move the machine to get various prizes in it. but some people say it is a game based on skill, others say it is luck. personally, i would say it is both, because each machine can be different depending on the developer. there are machines that can be easily moved and get prizes if we understand the tricks, but there are also machines that are quite difficult to get prizes in. so it can vary depending on the machine.

I see a claw machine as some kind of entertainment, as in playing in those games at carnivals.

Having a look at wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_game) it shows that there are actually two types of these games, one that is skilled based, and one that is chance based. In the latter case then it would be similar to gambling.

Interesting.

[Porfirii]

-snip-

But if the claw machine is like in the last screenshot (real money?), it can be categorized as gambling because there is cash involved there.
Im still not sure whether its real money or play money that can be exchanged for gifts? If its play money, I dont think it can be categorized as gambling.

-snip-

There is a commonly shared definition of gambling, but even more important than that definition is the semantic field you personally link to that word.

To me, everything that has to do with chance and money is a way of gambling. Trading is a way of gambling (unpopular opinion), hodling is a way of (long term) gambling, loots in video games that can be sold for real money are a way of gambling and, therefore, the machine in the last screenshot, as long as it is real money, is a clear way of gambling.

And what about legacy claw machines? as long as the prize has nothing to do with money, it doesn't fully fall under my definition of gambling. But it is a game based on chance where you look for something you want... so, to me, we could say that it is some kind of semi-gambling, although not in the tradicional sense of the term.

[TopTort777]

-snip-

But if the claw machine is like in the last screenshot (real money?), it can be categorized as gambling because there is cash involved there.
Im still not sure whether its real money or play money that can be exchanged for gifts? If its play money, I dont think it can be categorized as gambling.

-snip-

There is a commonly shared definition of gambling, but even more important than that definition is the semantic field you personally link to that word.

To me, everything that has to do with chance and money is a way of gambling. Trading is a way of gambling (unpopular opinion), hodling is a way of (long term) gambling, loots in video games that can be sold for real money are a way of gambling and, therefore, the machine in the last screenshot, as long as it is real money, is a clear way of gambling.

And what about legacy claw machines? as long as the prize has nothing to do with money, it doesn't fully fall under my definition of gambling. But it is a game based on chance where you look for something you want... so, to me, we could say that it is some kind of semi-gambling, although not in the tradicional sense of the term.

Working is also a way of gambling, because money are involved and there are chances not to get paid Think about that all of you who say gambling is bad because it raises addiction All of you are already addicted gamblers ha-ha.

Btw, all that video gaming stuff (skins, loot boxes, purchases to get extra strength over regular players) does not defined as gambling (at least from what Ive heard). Its in-game purchases. Even though players pay real money to test their luck.

For me, claw machines are a light version of gambling. Kids oriented gambling. Because they often are located at arcade game areas. But, since its idea is exchange of money for a chance, that is gambling for me.

[Apocollapse]

The only way to say claw machines isn't gambling if we can play for free, as long as you need to stake something valuable or money, it's fall to gambling, no matter what the prize or reward is.

Anyway, claw machines are just like normal slots, but you get less for the money and they are often rigged.

It's bold to say slots are rigged games, it's luck based games. Perhaps you didn't trust the gambling providers, that's why you say it's rigged. Claw machines is different, we can see how the claws is really weak and can't even grab the stuffs.

[o48o]

Well, technically they are, as they have designed to be work around for gambling regulations. Regulations on those can vary a lot, and so do the prices. I would assume that even owners of claw machines can't keep up with rapidly developed laws around them, as it's not too long ago as i saw i phones as price as a part of a carnival, that was passing by. And obviously drunk poor people saw that as an opportunity to show of their skills. These days that would get them charges on fraud because i am certain there are price limits for prizes on them.

Personally i don't see them as gambling because they are proven to be rigged many times, so i would classify them as scams.

[South Park]

Well, technically they are, as they have designed to be work around for gambling regulations. Regulations on those can vary a lot, and so do the prices. I would assume that even owners of claw machines can't keep up with rapidly developed laws around them, as it's not too long ago as i saw i phones as price as a part of a carnival, that was passing by. And obviously drunk poor people saw that as an opportunity to show of their skills. These days that would get them charges on fraud because i am certain there are price limits for prizes on them.

Personally i don't see them as gambling because they are proven to be rigged many times, so i would classify them as scams.

That seems like a fair assessment, I mean those claw machines give the impression you can win with some regularity as the machine is not completely random and your input supposedly can determine the outcome, however if this was true then a few persons should be able to get all the prizes out of those machines, but since this is not the case, it is clear the claw machine must have been manipulated in some way for this to not happen, so in a way they are a form of scam.

[nullama]

Well, technically they are, as they have designed to be work around for gambling regulations. Regulations on those can vary a lot, and so do the prices. I would assume that even owners of claw machines can't keep up with rapidly developed laws around them, as it's not too long ago as i saw i phones as price as a part of a carnival, that was passing by. And obviously drunk poor people saw that as an opportunity to show of their skills. These days that would get them charges on fraud because i am certain there are price limits for prizes on them.

Personally i don't see them as gambling because they are proven to be rigged many times, so i would classify them as scams.

Yeah, maybe. I actually see them more closely related to scams than gambling like you said...

But I wouldn't say they are a scam, because you can in theory win the prize. It's just very unlikely.

But it's also not gambling because even though it is unlikely, it is not random. It's just a very difficult thing to do.

[TopTort777]

Well, technically they are, as they have designed to be work around for gambling regulations. Regulations on those can vary a lot, and so do the prices. I would assume that even owners of claw machines can't keep up with rapidly developed laws around them, as it's not too long ago as i saw i phones as price as a part of a carnival, that was passing by. And obviously drunk poor people saw that as an opportunity to show of their skills. These days that would get them charges on fraud because i am certain there are price limits for prizes on them.

Personally i don't see them as gambling because they are proven to be rigged many times, so i would classify them as scams.

But you have heard stories that casinos scam their customers. With surprised KYC before withdrawal for example. Yet I believe you do gamble anyway. Even if claw machines are scam, they are kind of a soft scam They wont scam you for thousands or millions. And you will get a prize in the end with some persistence, while it will take hell of a time and luck to win jackpot even if you are super persistent. As a light form of gambling, claw machines does not require special licenses to operate. What I say, that even if they are scam, nobody cares as long as they get their plushie

[Betwrong]

I don't recommend playing this machine since there's no fairness certification, unlike slot machines with certification or a license. If the prize is just a toy, then it's not gambling by definition, but if the prize is money, then it's gambling. This machine is easy to tweak or compromise, so even if you're a skilled "crawler," you still can get bad results. There are many YouTube videos testing and explaining this machine.

In a casino the prizes are tokens, redeemable to money.

Not sure if that is the main difference as you can also exchange the toy for money.

I think the main difference, legally speaking, is that one is a game of chance (gambling) and the other is a game of skill (crawl machine)

It's not a game of skill, many people in this thread said it, and I agree with them. It's an illusion that the creators of this game bore in mind when they were making it. It would be a game of skill, more or less, if after you captured the prize it were guaranteed that you'll get it. Unfortunately, we all know that more often than not it's not the case.

[shield132]

Do you consider this a category of gambling game? What are the chances on long run? Skills matter, or do you have to be lucky, nevertheless?

Kind of, I mean you are staking "money" to play it. while majority of claw machines I see gives out stuff toys or candies there are some that gives out money or other valuable or expensive prizes.

anyway, claw machines are notoriously rigged, I've read articles talking about how the claw on claw machines are programed to grab tight only after certain amount of plays.

They are rigged as hell. When I was a kid, claw machines and other similar machines were very popular, especially the one where you had to put the coin and you would receive nothing or it would be randomly multiplied and available for withdrawal. I had a stroke of very good luck on both machines, I remember my father was thirsty and I won a beer on the claw machine, he was very happy. I also had a moment in my life when I won so much on one of these machines during my childhood that they banned me and prohibited my father from bringing me these machines, I clearly remember those days.

I personally consider claw machines a category of gambling because it's very similar to slots machine, you put the coin and then you depend on your luck, you might win something or not, just like in slots.

[joniboini]

Btw, all that video gaming stuff (skins, loot boxes, purchases to get extra strength over regular players) does not defined as gambling (at least from what Ive heard). Its in-game purchases. Even though players pay real money to test their luck.

I think it depends on where you live too no? Some countries are strict with rules related to microtransactions and as far as I can tell most gamers seem to agree that gacha or loot boxes in general are a form of gambling. Skins or in-game cosmetics should be different though, since there's no randomness over there. I believe claw machines are quite similar to skins in the sense that the randomness is not as big as others, or exists at all. I do agree that it still has gambling elements regardless of how people justify its existence and placement in public places.

[TopTort777]

Claw machine are similar, but not as addictive as in-game purchases. In-game purchases, now that is a real gambling addiction, not slots or table games. In regular gambling, you at least might get something (money) in exchange for spend money. Claw machines gives you toys. In-game purchases gives you... extra lives, skins, higher jumps or something random. They are more evil than regular gambling. As it is a form of a legal cheating or useless crap in exchange for money.

[nullama]

~snip~
It's not a game of skill, many people in this thread said it, and I agree with them. It's an illusion that the creators of this game bore in mind when they were making it. It would be a game of skill, more or less, if after you captured the prize it were guaranteed that you'll get it. Unfortunately, we all know that more often than not it's not the case.

I have seen people winning prizes at some claw machines, so it is possible.

Of course some machines might be rigged, as every machine is different. But in theory, it should be possible to win.

[gunhell16]

That claw machine is difficult when you play it; you need two other tokens to play it. It's rare to win that claw machine, but there are others who are obsessed with it and have fun with it because the others seem to have a technique to do it. And I don't know what that is.

Second, can that be considered gambling? because you are not betting on anything, but once you can drop a token, then you can perform clawing; whatever you get that can be stuck
in the claw is yours.

[taufik123]

That claw machine is difficult when you play it; you need two other tokens to play it. It's rare to win that claw machine, but there are others who are obsessed with it and have fun with it because the others seem to have a technique to do it. And I don't know what that is.

Second, can that be considered gambling? because you are not betting on anything, but once you can drop a token, then you can perform clawing; whatever you get that can be stuck
in the claw is yours.

A few months ago, I even found it in my brother's shop.
Claw machines like this have been set so that claws are not easy to grip dolls, so more experiments will be done to try to take dolls.

Believe it or not, according to some people or according to technicians, there are several techniques that can be done such as swinging the claw and then dropping it or waiting until the claw time ends, or before the claw drops automatically.

I tried everything but some did fail, but sometimes with the swing technique I can pick up some dummy with a lot of trying.
If this is said to be gambling, maybe it could be like that because there will be an addictive effect to keep trying and trying again until you get a doll.

In fact, I can try dozens of times to get a Doll that is certainly not more expensive than the money I spent to buy coins.
The claw machine is only an entertainment and not to be used as a place to make a profit.

[Ultegra134]

I didn't say it's an actual scam, though. It's a personal point of view, and I'm sure I'm not the only one seeing it that way. Also, being persistent means spending more time and money on something that would probably be cheaper if you buy directly. You'll be spending a lot more trying to get plush toys from claw machines than buying these toys from actual toy stores. There are people who are good in playing claw machines but I'll bet there are a whole lot more who just end up spending on tokens and getting nothing. It's generally a good place to waste time and money. Note the term "waste"

Damn right, are they a scam? I am not exactly sure, but the odds are certainly not in your favor. God, these are awful machines. They have a worse grip than a newborn baby, and 9 out of 10 times when you pick something up, it'll fall right next to the exit latch. I've remembered them since childhood, and I don't recall ever winning anything. Can they be considered gambling? Certainly yes. Not all claw machines have stuffed animals inside; there are others that feature expensive devices, watches, electronics, or even cash prizes. There are even found in casinos, while they're spreading like a virus at almost every location.

[FinneysTrueVision]

It is not considered to be gambling because the element of fairness is absent due to the owner of the machine being able to adjust its sensitivity any time they wish. Customers have no way of knowing beforehand that it is rigged against them, you just have to assume that it might be. There is no way to come up with odds of actually getting a prize, but the odds can be zero in some cases.

For games of luck, participants are betting with variables that they are familiar with. With these rigged games, however, you are going in entirely blind, not knowing whether you are flushing money away.