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Author Topic: The real reason American government hates Bitcoin  (Read 3571 times)
cryptoanarchist
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March 30, 2014, 05:12:38 AM
 #21

Unless you buy from a car dealer that doesn't. I see you like trolling gov't fear around here. What exactly do you do for a living? Just post shit for the IRS?

I am a pragmatist, not an idealist.  I like to be aware of the laws, and avoid going to jail.  Being ignorant of the laws that you are fighting against is not a sign of activism.

so you're avoiding answering what you do for a living?
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March 30, 2014, 05:20:14 AM
 #22


I sense relatively little 'hate' toward Bitcoin from the government or from various other sectors.  Much less than I had anticipated given the nature of the Bitcoin system.  For the most part it seems like most elements within the government and in various other power spheres (media, various corporate sectors, etc) simply have a sense of wonder and bafflement more than anything. Those who thought that regulatory bodies, law enforcement, etc were going to somehow stop trying to do their jobs, or that that should be their reaction to Bitcoin were being unrealistic.  I'm surprised at the U.S. flexibility so far.

That said, I was blown away by the relatively neutral reaction of the Chinese govt half a year ago.  We see now how quickly things snapped back.  The best hypothesis I can see is that I overestimated the amount of coordination within the Chinese central government and there are a different blocks with different ideas about policy and different levels of influence.  My suspicion is that the U.S. govt is a bit more 'tight' in this respect but the same dynamics are at play here as well.  I would not be surprised to see significant shifts in the level of tolerance towards Bitcoin which is expressed, and see them happen fairly rapidly under certain sets of conditions.



Shifts in which direction?

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March 30, 2014, 05:34:51 AM
 #23


I sense relatively little 'hate' toward Bitcoin from the government or from various other sectors.  Much less than I had anticipated given the nature of the Bitcoin system.  For the most part it seems like most elements within the government and in various other power spheres (media, various corporate sectors, etc) simply have a sense of wonder and bafflement more than anything. Those who thought that regulatory bodies, law enforcement, etc were going to somehow stop trying to do their jobs, or that that should be their reaction to Bitcoin were being unrealistic.  I'm surprised at the U.S. flexibility so far.

That said, I was blown away by the relatively neutral reaction of the Chinese govt half a year ago.  We see now how quickly things snapped back.  The best hypothesis I can see is that I overestimated the amount of coordination within the Chinese central government and there are a different blocks with different ideas about policy and different levels of influence.  My suspicion is that the U.S. govt is a bit more 'tight' in this respect but the same dynamics are at play here as well.  I would not be surprised to see significant shifts in the level of tolerance towards Bitcoin which is expressed, and see them happen fairly rapidly under certain sets of conditions.


Shifts in which direction?

Shifts toward being more antagonistic and erecting barriers to Bitcoin ownership and use which are more onerous.  I continue to see a danger associated with blacklisting and a pressure-point which could be exploited with what would likely be a great deal of success.  If the government does exploit this (e.g., mandating the use of blacklists for retailers and Coinbase-like entities) that would be such a shift.  A related one would be to mandate declaration of personal BTC holdings (which could be enforced if blacklisting were available.)


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March 30, 2014, 06:56:16 AM
 #24


I sense relatively little 'hate' toward Bitcoin from the government or from various other sectors.  Much less than I had anticipated given the nature of the Bitcoin system.  For the most part it seems like most elements within the government and in various other power spheres (media, various corporate sectors, etc) simply have a sense of wonder and bafflement more than anything.
That's because they haven't figured out the socio-political repercussions yet. It's still very, very early. Wait.

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
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March 30, 2014, 07:01:22 AM
 #25

Unless you buy from a car dealer that doesn't. I see you like trolling gov't fear around here. What exactly do you do for a living? Just post shit for the IRS?
I am a pragmatist, not an idealist.  I like to be aware of the laws, and avoid going to jail.  Being ignorant of the laws that you are fighting against is not a sign of activism.
so you're avoiding answering what you do for a living?
I like my privacy.  My answer is none of your business.  I don't like the idea of you perhaps mounting a DDOS attack against my website if you have a tantrum.  Oh, wait, I work for the IRS.  http://irs.gov, please DDOS me.

Seriously, I like bitcoin and believe it will succeed.   However, I never believed it was a magic internet money that transcended the laws of the country I live in.  I believe spreading FUD and ignorance about bitcoin as it relates to taxation and this nation's strict AML laws is going to help it.

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March 30, 2014, 07:07:06 AM
 #26

 Oh, wait, I work for the IRS.  


Probably the only honest remark you've made.
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March 30, 2014, 07:17:39 AM
 #27

"In God We Trust" is actually "In Satan We Trust", if you judge the actions rather than the words, of our sociopathic government.

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Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
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March 30, 2014, 09:04:48 AM
 #28

Go make a thread discussion 'The real reason Chinese government hates Bitcoin'.

Get your priorities straight, bitches.
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March 30, 2014, 01:18:14 PM
 #29

The real reason is that American government hates everything
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March 30, 2014, 01:20:48 PM
 #30

The real reason is that American government hates everything

Bitch at America in the morning.

Bitch at America during lunch.

Squeal and moan yourself to sleep bitching at America after dinner.


Run crying to Uncle Sam's arms when you get hit by a typhoon/tsunami/earthquake/flood/china grabbing your islands or crazy cunts blowing up nuke next door.



We need to make up a new word in languages to describe the utter bitch status of you sad, sad fuckers Smiley
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March 30, 2014, 03:15:27 PM
 #31

"In satoshi we trust" - it's ingeniously!

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March 30, 2014, 04:41:55 PM
 #32

They cannot print "In God We Trust" on bitcoins.

Why is it "hip" to be anti-God?  Or snarky about the God topic.  That has always seemed lame to me.  Focus on assholes or something instead.  Plenty of those to go around.

-B-


I think it's because people get sick of having religion imposed on them, and enjoy pushing their views instead. I've been an atheist most of my life, always left the bible beaters alone. But as I see more and more of their anti-science BS being pushed on all of us, I've got to admit I'm starting to enjoy pointing out the fact that their religion is nothing but a fairy tale, and not even a good one at that.

"In DOGE We Trust"
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March 30, 2014, 05:22:58 PM
 #33


I sense relatively little 'hate' toward Bitcoin from the government or from various other sectors.  Much less than I had anticipated given the nature of the Bitcoin system.  For the most part it seems like most elements within the government and in various other power spheres (media, various corporate sectors, etc) simply have a sense of wonder and bafflement more than anything.


That's because they haven't figured out the socio-political repercussions yet. It's still very, very early. Wait.


I can only partially agree.  The potential socio-political repercussions are not all that complex.  They dawned on a lot of us within minutes of grasping the basics of the solution.  What is a lot more complex are what the end results of various actions directed at Bitcoin would be.  To that end I am surprised that more efforts were not made toward nipping the 'problem' in the bud.  Two opposing hypothesis are that most of those who have significant influence were, and are still, fairly out-of-touch, or that they have analyzed things and recognized that almost any direct efforts would have worse end effects than basically doing nothing.  Of these two the first seems more likely to me at this point.

I continue to theorize the Bitcoin itself is not much of a threat due to it's immature and rushed design, but it opens a door to a host of solutions which are indeed quite threatening in that it has induced a lot of 'mindshare' to work on developments in this sphere and to accept the utility of such solutions.  The only real solution would be to clamp down on the ability of individuals to freely communicate but that is a tricky problem in some societies.  I'd expect a 'cyber 9/11' type event as the best engineering option to effect such a shift, and it's been floated off-and-on for many years now.


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March 30, 2014, 05:36:46 PM
 #34


I continue to theorize the Bitcoin itself is not much of a threat due to it's immature and rushed design, but it opens a door to a host of solutions which are indeed quite threatening in that it has induced a lot of 'mindshare' to work on developments in this sphere and to accept the utility of such solutions. 

Biologists say the same sorts of things about life. Look at how imperfect we are. Yet, we are highly adaptable due to our simplicity. Some people say there are weaknesses such as Transaction Malleability, but I have little doubt that they will be repurposed into useful functions. All life is built on four DNA letters. Simple systems merge and become complex systems. If one component fails to adapt, the organism develops alternate systems. I think Bitcoin's simplicity is its greatest strength.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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March 30, 2014, 05:49:46 PM
 #35

Why does everyone think that if you spend a Bitcoin there will be a freaking IRS Agent contacting you for their cut?  They are barely equipped and trained to handle their current responsibilities.  Now, all of a sudden, there will be IRS ninjas popping out of your computer?  Such paranoia! 

If I find a dealership that will take Bitcoins, and I buy a vehicle using Bitcoins, they have absolutely no obligation to contact anyone but the vehicle registration office to transfer the title.  Where the hell does the IRS come in to this?  Are vehicle dealers now authorized undercover IRS agents?  The imagination is a crazy thing I guess.

There is some crazy, baseless bullshit being spread on this board.

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March 30, 2014, 05:58:34 PM
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I continue to theorize the Bitcoin itself is not much of a threat due to it's immature and rushed design, but it opens a door to a host of solutions which are indeed quite threatening in that it has induced a lot of 'mindshare' to work on developments in this sphere and to accept the utility of such solutions. 

Biologists say the same sorts of things about life. Look at how imperfect we are. Yet, we are highly adaptable due to our simplicity. Some people say there are weaknesses such as Transaction Malleability, but I have little doubt that they will be repurposed into useful functions. All life is built on four DNA letters. Simple systems merge and become complex systems. If one component fails to adapt, the organism develops alternate systems. I think Bitcoin's simplicity is its greatest strength.

I agree, but in a nuanced way.  I strongly agree with the idea of strength through simplicity.  I've always been fairly negative about efforts to increase usability and functionality of Bitcoin and to continue to extend the protocol for this reason.

The strength of a public ledger solution and a need for privacy are very hard things to reconcile, but I don't think it is necessary.  A myriad of second-tier solutions each tuned for specific goals but deriving strength from support of something 'transparent' like Bitcoin seems to me like a nearly ideal solution.  Particularly if Bitcoin (or more generally, the native backing store) remains accessible (and maintainable) by end users.  The neat thing about such a framework is that the 'second tier' solutions are dispensable so if some of them are attacked successfully it will not upset the core system or other second-tier solution.  The proverbial whack-a-mole problem for attackers which would prove quite vexing to address systemically.


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March 30, 2014, 06:04:12 PM
 #37

All government hates bitcoin

government and central bank are the two sides of fiat coin

if bitcoin finally wins then both government and central bank will lose power  Cool
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March 30, 2014, 06:04:21 PM
 #38

what about :"In satoshi we trust "  Shocked
You are really funny。 Grin Grin

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tvbcof
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March 30, 2014, 06:06:56 PM
 #39

Why does everyone think that if you spend a Bitcoin there will be a freaking IRS Agent contacting you for their cut?  They are barely equipped and trained to handle their current responsibilities.  Now, all of a sudden, there will be IRS ninjas popping out of your computer?  Such paranoia! 

If I find a dealership that will take Bitcoins, and I buy a vehicle using Bitcoins, they have absolutely no obligation to contact anyone but the vehicle registration office to transfer the title.  Where the hell does the IRS come in to this?  Are vehicle dealers now authorized undercover IRS agents?  The imagination is a crazy thing I guess.

There is some crazy, baseless bullshit being spread on this board.

The real utility of tax laws as they relate to law enforcement is that it gives the authorities extra avenues to attack if they wish to for whatever reason.  (Parenthetically, it is similar to the utility of bulk collection and retention of communications data as J.E. Hoover did and the current intelligence community is doing with a vengeance.)

Most people have basically nothing to fear by cheating on their taxes vis-a-vis Bitcoin.  As you say, it's not as though the IRS has the resources to track this stuff very well anyway.  But if one chooses to cheat one will have it hanging over their head like the 'Sword of Damocles' at least until the statute of limitations is up, and probably even longer.  This could significantly impact one's ability to participate in other activities such as political efforts and probably even certain business operations.


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March 30, 2014, 06:28:42 PM
 #40

America government does not want the international role of the dollar BTC effect.

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