Does sound money have to be Private?

[we-btc]

Over 95% of the US dollar is digital and all of the digital dollars are in the custody of a Bank.  When you make a purchase or transfer your US dollars your transaction is tracked and approved by the bank and by extension, the US Government.

Can you consider a transaction that is monitored and approved sound?

I think for a money to be sound you must be able to transact privately with no third party in the transactions.

What do you think?

[1714561658]

1714561658

[1714561658]

1714561658

[1714561658]

1714561658

[Charles-Tim]

Fiat are centralized and we all know that. But there are coins that are decentralized and that you can use privately. Example is bitcoin if you learn about it. Another example is monero. You can just see them as alternatives but which can not fully replace fiat. We are in the world that the governments want to know our online activities, especially pertaining to money. It is not avoidable but can be reduced. I do not care if the government see the part of me that I want them to see, but having other part which is private.

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

What are you really implying? Sound money, as in, how?

Fiat money was designed to be centralized and handled with the help of financial institutions such as banks, which usually collected their instructions from higher authorities like the government. Because of how they chose to run the (our)  monetary system, you cannot say that such money is un-sound.


Bitcoin was designed as a decentralized cryptocurrency, and the father of Bitcoin is an anonymous person whom no one happens to know. The idea for Bitcoin's development was for individuals to be in charge of their own money without third-party involvement, and as such, we cannot say that Bitcoin is a sound money because it is decentralized, while Fiat money is not a sound money because it's centralized.

Those two systems are not designed to function the same way; as a matter of fact, the government doesn't like decentralization; they want something that is under their control. You cannot change the system, @OP, and calling it unsound doesn't change anything.

By the way, I think this topic should be moved to the economics board.

[we-btc]

What are you really implying? Sound money, as in, how?

Fiat money was designed to be centralized and handled with the help of financial institutions such as banks, which usually collected their instructions from higher authorities like the government. Because of how they chose to run the (our)  monetary system, you cannot say that such money is un-sound.


Bitcoin was designed as a decentralized cryptocurrency, and the father of Bitcoin is an anonymous person whom no one happens to know. The idea for Bitcoin's development was for individuals to be in charge of their own money without third-party involvement, and as such, we cannot say that Bitcoin is a sound money because it is decentralized, while Fiat money is not a sound money because it's centralized.

Those two systems are not designed to function the same way; as a matter of fact, the government doesn't like decentralization; they want something that is under their control. You cannot change the system, @OP, and calling it unsound doesn't change anything.

By the way, I think this topic should be moved to the economics board.

A lot people say that Bitcoin is the most sound money ever created and I tend to agree with that. By definition, sound money should be durable, portable, divisibility, uniform, limited, recognizable, accepted and stable.

One of the additional features provided by Bitcoin is sudo privacy.  This is provided by peer-to-peer transactions and anonymized addresses.

As such does Bitcoin make the case that privacy should be included in the properties of sound money or is privacy not required for sound money?

I would argue that without the option for private transactions money is not sound. When you require approval to access your value then the money is not sound. 

[TravelMug]

Over 95% of the US dollar is digital and all of the digital dollars are in the custody of a Bank.  When you make a purchase or transfer your US dollars your transaction is tracked and approved by the bank and by extension, the US Government.

Can you consider a transaction that is monitored and approved sound?

I think for a money to be sound you must be able to transact privately with no third party in the transactions.

What do you think?

Fiat has been centralized since the beginning, so obviously, there is no privacy on it. And the mere fact that it is printed by the government, so not sure what your point on considering it sound. And if you defined "sound money", it's like being accessible to all, and if we compare it to let's say Bitcoin, which only a small percentage of people in the world know and used, then they didn't fall on the same wavelength as far as privacy goes.

[BlackHatCoiner]

What do you think?

I don't think privacy is somewhat correlated with sound money. The way I understand sound money is that it's money that meets the following criteria:

• Cannot have its supply increased or decreased arbitrarily.
• It is not credit.

Fiat currency, for example, if represented in cash is very private. But, it is prone to arbitrary money printing. It is also credit, because it requires trust to the prosperity of the state / government(s) that issues it. Gold is pretty much sound money one could say. Bitcoin is the soundest of all, because you're completely certain about the first condition (if you practice self-custody).

[we-btc]

Fiat has been centralized since the beginning, so obviously, there is no privacy on it. And the mere fact that it is printed by the government, so not sure what your point on considering it sound. And if you defined "sound money", it's like being accessible to all, and if we compare it to let's say Bitcoin, which only a small percentage of people in the world know and used, then they didn't fall on the same wavelength as far as privacy goes.

I don't think centralized and private are equivalent.  The US dollar is a fiat currency that is centralized but I can use a physical dollar bill to complete a private transaction.  If I use a bank in the transaction then it is not private.  

[we-btc]

What do you think?

I don't think privacy is somewhat correlated with sound money. The way I understand sound money is that it's money that meets the following criteria:

• Cannot have its supply increased or decreased arbitrarily.
• It is not credit.

Fiat currency, for example, if represented in cash is very private. But, it is prone to arbitrary money printing. It is also credit, because it requires trust to the prosperity of the state / government(s) that issues it. Gold is pretty much sound money one could say. Bitcoin is the soundest of all, because you're completely certain about the first condition (if you practice self-custody).

By definition, sound money should have the following properties:  durable, portable, divisibility, uniform, limited, recognizable, accepted and stable.

No one mentions private in this list except Bitcoin.

So should a sound money be private like Bitcoin is if you do peer-to-peer transactions?


I think the creators of Bitcoin were trying to say that you can't have sound money if it is not Private. That is why they made it as private as they could make a public ledger.

[BlackHatCoiner]

By definition, sound money should have the following properties:  durable, portable, divisibility, uniform, limited, recognizable, accepted and stable.

Why stable? And stable comparably to what? What asset is stable comparably to the Zimbabwean dollar?

[we-btc]

By definition, sound money should have the following properties:  durable, portable, divisibility, uniform, limited, recognizable, accepted and stable.

Why stable? And stable comparably to what? What asset is stable comparably to the Zimbabwean dollar?

Sound money systems aim to maintain a stable value over time, avoiding drastic fluctuations or volatility that can disrupt economic activities.

[electronicash]

the term sound of money i thought was purity as they hear sound when they drop the gold coin to the floor.
if you don't want to be monitored i guess there are ways to do it or just use the anon coins for your transaction to go unnoticed.  you just have to deal with someone who also doesn't want to be monitored.

now that everything is public on blockchain, it may just be hard to do what you want to do. when they say cash is king, they must be telling the truth.

[Upgrade00]

I think the creators of Bitcoin were trying to say that you can't have sound money if it is not Private. That is why they made it as private as they could make a public ledger.

I don't think the creator of Bitcoin was trying to define what sound money is. Satoshi was trying to solve the problem of third parties mediating and controlling transactions. Bitcoin bypassed that trust system which the banking system is built on and created a verification system.

There was no allusion to what sound money is or what it should be.

[btc78]

What is sound money? Because sound money is defined as money that is basically not volatile. It’s stable and does not get sudden increases or decreases in value.

Another example is monero. You can just see them as alternatives but which can not fully replace fiat.

Monero is a privacy coin. Bitcoin is already decentralized in nature but monero offers an extra layer of privacy if you must need it. Of course, it can nit replace fiat. Even bitcoin is still not yet fully adapted let alone monero. A coin can never replace fiat unless the government fully accepts cryptocurrencies.

[we-btc]

What is sound money? Because sound money is defined as money that is basically not volatile. It’s stable and does not get sudden increases or decreases in value.

Another example is monero. You can just see them as alternatives but which can not fully replace fiat.

Monero is a privacy coin. Bitcoin is already decentralized in nature but monero offers an extra layer of privacy if you must need it. Of course, it can nit replace fiat. Even bitcoin is still not yet fully adapted let alone monero. A coin can never replace fiat unless the government fully accepts cryptocurrencies.

Is Bitcoin sound money even though it is not private?

Monero doesn't have a limited supply so it can be inflated.  I wouldn't consider that sound money.

[letteredhub]

Over 95% of the US dollar is digital and all of the digital dollars are in the custody of a Bank.  When you make a purchase or transfer your US dollars your transaction is tracked and approved by the bank and by extension, the US Government.

Can you consider a transaction that is monitored and approved sound?

I think for a money to be sound you must be able to transact privately with no third party in the transactions.

What do you think?

I thought when people talk of sound money they mean - money that is clean not connected to any form of illegality.

Fiat money are legalized and printed by the government as a centralized currency you don't expect them not to monitor how people use it even if the people may not like how theymir translations are constantly monitored leaving them to no loophole of privacy.

For individuals that want to act smart the would prefer running a cash in hand transaction than using electronic cash transaction to cut of the monitoring. But I consider that to be too archaic at this era that we have bitcoin as an alternative digital currency which gives you that financial freedom and privacy that fiat denied us of.

[sokani]

Fiat is a tool in the hands of the authorities. With it we're under the government's claws, our transactions can be easily monitored and our account can be blocked or frozen and as such I wouldn't call it a perfect money. On the other hand, Bitcoin and privacy coins like monero, dash, zcash are decentralized, censorship resistant should be the perfect examples of sound money because of the freedom and privacy they offer.

[boyptc]

When you post, wait until someone replies to you before you do consecutive replies.

By definition, sound money should have the following properties:  durable, portable, divisibility, uniform, limited, recognizable, accepted and stable.

No one mentions private in this list except Bitcoin.

So should a sound money be private like Bitcoin is if you do peer-to-peer transactions?

Based on your description of a sound money then fiat is a sound money and so as Bitcoin. Since it's not part of being private, it's like a plus if you're going to describe Bitcoin as a sound money.

I thought when people talk of sound money they mean - money that is clean not connected to any form of illegality.

If this it means for some, then no sound money for everyone. As fiat can be used for illegal things and the same goes for Bitcoin and anything that has monetary value.

[Rengga Jati]

Over 95% of the US dollar is digital and all of the digital dollars are in the custody of a Bank.  When you make a purchase or transfer your US dollars your transaction is tracked and approved by the bank and by extension, the US Government.

Can you consider a transaction that is monitored and approved sound?

I think for a money to be sound you must be able to transact privately with no third party in the transactions.

What do you think?

Bank is centralized. all transactions will be recorded there, and the bank can monitor them. Of course, when we talk about privacy, even when we open a bank account, we are immediately monitored for some data so we can open a bank account, as well as several conditions depending on each bank. And that's mandatory. So, the bank has all that database.

However, we, as laypeople, cannot see or trace the transaction as we please. Only the owner of the account can, either with their own application or through assistance from the bank. For the bank, they can do it, but there are limits to what they have to do, and they cannot immediately trace the transactions carried out. And other parties too, even we as lay people will not be able to ask the bank to track certain transactions because of the bank's policies and obligations to protect the privacy and data of its customers. Unless it is used for certain cases, which already have permission from the competent authorities.

I don't think centralized and private are equivalent.  The US dollar is a fiat currency that is centralized but I can use a physical dollar bill to complete a private transaction.  If I use a bank in the transaction then it is not private.  

If what is meant is what the money was used for, indeed, not everything can be traced. especially if the customer has made a cash withdrawal, then what is recorded at the bank is the cash withdrawal activity. Because if we make a cash withdrawal, there is no requirement to tell us what the money is for. It's better if it's done at an ATM. Unless you directly withdraw large amounts of cash by going directly to the teller or bank, there will usually be little discussion regarding this activity. So, if we have made a cash withdrawal, that's it, we can no longer trace where the money went and what it was used for, because it's cash. Unless the payment is made online using mbanking or something else, it will definitely be tracked.

[Volimack]

Over 95% of the US dollar is digital and all of the digital dollars are in the custody of a Bank.  When you make a purchase or transfer your US dollars your transaction is tracked and approved by the bank and by extension, the US Government.

Can you consider a transaction that is monitored and approved sound?

I think for a money to be sound you must be able to transact privately with no third party in the transactions.

What do you think?

Fiat is centralized and under the control of the government therefore the secrets of Fiat should never be protected. Fiat currencies are tracked by governments. Bitcoin is good if you want to go with good third party transactions. Here there is no control and the person will work independently and the best way to protect privacy.

[Assface16678]

I think the creators of Bitcoin were trying to say that you can't have sound money if it is not Private. That is why they made it as private as they could make a public ledger.

I don't think the creator of Bitcoin was trying to define what sound money is. Satoshi was trying to solve the problem of third parties mediating and controlling transactions. Bitcoin bypassed that trust system which the banking system is built on and created a verification system.

There was no allusion to what sound money is or what it should be.

Exactly, bitcoin is the definition of freedom when it comes to financial because we know how bitcoin is secured and trusted no one could access to our transaction or know your identity in the crypto space, but as bitcoin technology is advanced and secured it can also be used for doing hidden transaction or transactions that is made because of someone doing a crime, that's is also why government are very hesistant in bitcoin because they can't track the identity of someone who is using bitcoin but if we will look to the brigther side, bitcoin really is something that is powerful and very useful for us, especially in terms of finance, you can surely earn in bitcoin as long as you know how to, and you can rest assured that your money will not have any tax or deduction so thats the greater in crypto currency, so bitcoin provides the most secured, safe and privacy.