Electrum sending 50,000 sats to random wallet

[Stakefast]

Hello,

I sent a BTC transaction from multiple invoices (2) to one single bitcoin adress.

I sent 10.5 mBTC but Electrum combined sent 11.1 mBTC.

The fee was supposed to be 0.14 mBTC

0.5 mBTC was sent to this adress and is still unused....




Electrum says I only have 0.3 mBTC left in my wallets...


So what happend with the 50k sats? Am I able to receive it again by deleting invoices?


Edit:
Seems like Trustedcoin charged me 0.5 mBTC for using their 2FA service on Electrum.
Can't recommend to use it. Feels like I got scammed.

[1714630414]

1714630414

[1714630414]

1714630414

[Zaguru12]

Yes that’s your address it is called the change address.

[Stakefast]

Yes that’s your address it is called the change address.

But the 0.311 went to my change adress, the 0.5 went to a unkown adress.

[Charles-Tim]

If the address is not among the addresses generated by your wallet, that means you sent it to someone. Did you not intentionally sent it to someone?

[Stakefast]

If the address is not among the addresses generated by your wallet, that means you sent it to someone. Did you not intentionally sent it to someone?

No I simply was sending 10.5 to the third adress you can see here



The 50,000 sats are still unspent so it wasnt something used as a transaction fee.

This is the transaction:
https://mempool.space/tx/77fc8ba9863b063ea97e0c5abe52b6247a08dd83cfd774e1f4fcdadb388e1b59

Is it because I used multisig? I am using 2FA and the invoice function.

[Zaguru12]

But the 0.311 went to my change adress, the 0.5 went to a unkown adress.

I think I found where your problem is, you must be using a 2FA in electrum and apparently they charge you for the service which is said to be 0.005BTC and they do this by automatically adding an extra address to your output and this looks exactly like that. So this means that the address belongs to TrustedCoin and you paid for their services.

Read up here https://api.trustedcoin.com/#/faq

[Stakefast]

But the 0.311 went to my change adress, the 0.5 went to a unkown adress.

I think I found where your problem is, you must be using a 2FA in electrum and apparently they charge you for the service which is said to be 0.005BTC and they do this by automatically adding an extra address to your output and this looks exactly like that. So this means that the address belongs to TrustedCoin and you paid for their services.

Read up here https://api.trustedcoin.com/#/faq

WOW ok... got it. Is it a only one-time payment?

NVM, I see. Every 20 tx.
Funny, they charge it with the first transaction already.

Thanks for the information.

Quite expensive if you ask me, I only want to be safe and I dont think its much of a resource to give users a QR-Code to scan and verify.
I will simply create a new wallet without 2FA... this shit cost me 40$, without a pre-warning when setting up the 2FA. Feels like I got scammed.

Cannot recommend TrustedCoin services. Too expensive for normal users. Imagine using their API... you will go broke in a minute with a lot of transactions.

As for Electrum = Imagine you offer 2FA as a security feature and users have to pay 40$ for their first transaction.
Unbelievable, scams sit behind every corner in crypto.

[Zaguru12]

WOW ok... got it. Is it an only one-time payment?

NVM, I see. Every 20 tx.

Thanks for the information.

Quite expensive if you ask me, I only want to be safe and I dont think its much of a resource to give users a QR-Code to scan and verify.

Glad you found the information useful, you can as well still batch them up to like a 100 transaction which seems to be cheaper, if you are the type that does lots of transactions. Also if you feel uncomfortable with it continuing, I think you can discontinue by just reimporting your seed phrase as standard and then disable the 2FA, this should stop the current charges that comes with and as well the benefit it holds.

If you’re then looking to add extra layer of protection to that your seed phrase you can simply just add passphrase to it.

Unbelievable, scams sit behind every corner in crypto.[/b]

I don’t know why you label this as scam but I think scam is when you are not aware of a service. Apparently they informed you of what they charge when you use their services, so they didn’t scam you. Rather the advice Should be newbies need to read about a service first before they use it.

[Stakefast]

WOW ok... got it. Is it an only one-time payment?

NVM, I see. Every 20 tx.

Thanks for the information.

Quite expensive if you ask me, I only want to be safe and I dont think its much of a resource to give users a QR-Code to scan and verify.

Glad you found the information useful, you can as well still batch them up to like a 100 transaction which seems to be cheaper, if you are the type that does lots of transactions. Also if you feel uncomfortable with it continuing, I think you can discontinue by just reimporting your seed phrase as standard and then disable the 2FA, this should stop the current charges that comes with and as well the benefit it holds.

If you’re then looking to add extra layer of protection to that your seed phrase you can simply just add passphrase to it.

Unbelievable, scams sit behind every corner in crypto.[/b]

I don’t know why you label this as scam but I think scam is when you are not aware of a service. Apparently they informed you of what they charge when you use their services, so they didn’t scam you. Rather the advice Should be newbies need to read about a service first before they use it.

The fee was never visible when setting up, thus making me call it a scam. I did not know it cost anything.

Never heard or seen any platform that takes 40$ for using 2FA security.

Also: It was my first transaction with that wallet. Its a pre-paid service. You have to pay even before doing 20 transactions.

I am contacting TrustedCoin now and demanding a invoice for this as I pay taxes for all my bitcoin invoices. I need a invoice to mark it a expense.

[hosseinimr93]

I will simply create a new wallet without 2FA... this shit cost me 40$, without a pre-warning when setting up the 2FA. Feels like I got scammed.

You were warned about that extra fee when you were creating your 2FA wallet, but you probably didn't notice that.




As mentioned above by Zaguru12, you can disable 2FA, but note that you have already paid the trustedcoin fee for 19 more transactions and you may want to consider keeping 2FA enabled for some time.
I also want to add that electrum 2FA wallet is a 2 of 3 multi-signature wallet and the fee you have to pay to miners for making transactions from such wallet are higher than a single-signature wallet.
If you no longer want to have 2FA enabled for any reason, I suggest you create a new single-signature wallet and move all your fund to your new wallet.

[Lucius]

The fee was never visible when setting up, thus making me call it a scam. I did not know it cost anything.
Never heard or seen any platform that takes 40$ for using 2FA security.
~snip~

I personally never needed the 2FA option, but it was never a secret that it was a paid option. I just tried running the process of creating a 2FA wallet on Electrum and I can confirm that there is a warning that the service is paid, although no specific amount is mentioned. Also, if you use something, it is always logical to check what exactly it is about - because they say that the devil hides in small letters, but TC has described everything very nicely on his website, and in normal size letters.

TrustedCoin's service is not free. Every 20 outgoing transactions (starting with your first outgoing transaction), TrustedCoin will charge a BTC-denominated cosigning fee. This fee is shared with the developers of Electrum and appears as an extra output on your outgoing transaction.

By clicking on the TrustedCoin shield icon in the lower right of the Electrum interface, you can configure to pay in batches of 100 transactions instead of 20. Batches of 100 end up being cheaper if you do more than 50 outgoing transactions from your wallet. Here is the current fee table:

Batch size   Per transaction price   Batch price
Pay every 20 transactions:    0.000025 BTC/tx    0.0005 BTC total
Pay every 100 transactions:    0.0000125 BTC/tx    0.00125 BTC total

TrustedCoin previously supported paying on a per-transaction (as opposed to batch) basis but had to discontinue support for this due to escalating network fees. Note that fee rates are usually halved every time BTC doubles in value.

If you disable 2FA (an option available when you restore your wallet from seed), then you will not be charged a cosigning fee.

[hosseinimr93]

I personally never needed the 2FA option, but it was never a secret that it was a paid option. I just tried running the process of creating a 2FA wallet on Electrum and I can confirm that there is a warning that the service is paid, although no specific amount is mentioned.

Right. It was OP's own fault that he didn't read the disclaimer when creating the 2FA wallet. It clearly says that there's a fee for the service.
The trustedcoin fee could be checked through electrum GUI too and OP didn't even have to go to their website for that.

[Lucius]

@hosseinimr93, I forgot to mention that I checked on Electrum Android, there is also a warning, but not as detailed as for the desktop version. I don't know which version the OP installed, but in any case he should have noticed that he is creating a wallet that has an option that is charged additionally.

However, he is not the only one who overlooked that 2FA is not free, over the years there were other cases on the forum where people were also confused by the fact that the wallet does something by itself. Basically, in such cases, there are three possible options - the first, that the user made a transaction and forgot that he did it - the second is exactly this one with 2FA, and the third is still the worst possible, which is that the hacker emptied the wallet.

[dkbit98]

Can't recommend to use it. Feels like I got scammed.

I think you scammed yourself.
You didn't have to use 2fa in electrum wallet, even more if you didn't understand how it works.
If you want extra security for your transaction maybe using multisig would work better for you, but again dyor before using anything like this since it's adding additional complexity.

You were warned about that extra fee when you were creating your 2FA wallet, but you probably didn't notice that.

Problem is that nowadays nobody is reading disclaimers, especially if they have long text in them.  

[ABCbits]

I will simply create a new wallet without 2FA... this shit cost me 40$, without a pre-warning when setting up the 2FA. Feels like I got scammed.

You were warned about that extra fee when you were creating your 2FA wallet, but you probably didn't notice that.


--snip--

But on a side note, TrustedCoin haven't changed their fee in really long time. I did quick search and found out the fee haven't changed since January 2021[1]. Which means the cost was about $15 back then. And their service was never cheap since they need to manage the signing key securely.

[1] https://archive.ph/8xvqR

[Z-tight]

If you want extra security for your transaction maybe using multisig would work better for you, but again dyor before using anything like this since it's adding additional complexity.

If op's concern is tx fees, then even if they use a multisig wallet, they would still pay a higher tx fee than when they use a single signature wallet. Op can extend their seed phrase with a passphrase if they want an extra layer of security without extra cost in tx fees when broadcasting their transaction to the network.

[NotATether]

Cannot recommend TrustedCoin services. Too expensive for normal users. Imagine using their API... you will go broke in a minute with a lot of transactions.

As for Electrum = Imagine you offer 2FA as a security feature and users have to pay 40$ for their first transaction.
Unbelievable, scams sit behind every corner in crypto.

Imagine what's going to happen when prices hit $100k. The 2FA tax would be very massive, at like $50 for every 20 transactions you make.

I just checked my own transaction history. It appears that I have made roughly 20 transactions every 6 months. So imagine, that's $100/year you're paying to trustedcoin for the privilege of 2FA. That doesn't sound like a fair price to me, and it might actively deter people from using the service.

[hosseinimr93]

Imagine what's going to happen when prices hit $100k. The 2FA tax would be very massive, at like $50 for every 20 transactions you make.

They may decrease the 2FA fee (in BTC) with more increase in bitcoin price in the future.

They have done so in the past.
For example, the 2FA fee charged by trustedcoin was 0.001 BTC for every 20 transactions in 2020 and 0.002 BTC in 2017.

[BlackBoss_]

OP can import the wallet seed, and choose 2FA to have a same address but without 2FA, and will no longer have to pay extra fee for 2FA to Trusted Coin.

Create a new wallet
Wallet with 2-factor authentication
I already have a seed
Restore 2FA wallet. You will have two options: Keep; Disable.

Because you no longer want to use 2FA, choose Disable.

Type your wallet password and Next. Compares receiving addresses in 2FA and no 2FA wallets, you will see same addresses.