Ginux (OP)
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 19
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/lamp.gif) |
April 19, 2024, 02:58:54 PM Last edit: April 19, 2024, 03:41:23 PM by Ginux |
|
Hey, guys. Here's a challenge to win 10,000,000 sats, worth about $6,400 when posted here. This is a reverse deduction puzzle, NOT a brute force one, nevertheless, any attempt at a brute force solution is welcome, and any analysis with the help of AI tools is also welcome.The puzzle is as follows
1. Here's the BIP39 seed phrase named S1, and the 12 seed words are: arena brisk seminar tool risk cat despair repeat seat property cattle later 2. Here's a set of two cards called CipherCard used for encryption, the black card is a data card with a lot of substitution characters laser-engraved, and the silver card is covered with cut-out holes and index characters laser-engraved. https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/04/19/jhps8.png3. Now using the CipherCard as the picture shows to perform substitution encryption on the seed phrase S1, to get ciphertext C1 as follows: URU/Yw LwE~T1 AE&8If 4YQ8Iw C2Q~EE nvH~TE JEQLJY rEQL5U 4wuQIw CT&lQ& &TT2&E K>I5ef
You can claim the prize if you can derive the substitution RULE for converting from plaintext to ciphertext based on plaintext S1, ciphertext C1, and the CipherCard mentioned above. Bitcoin transaction fees will be paid out of the prize, receiving the prize is completely tax-free in some countries, while in others you will be taxed when you exchange bitcoin for local fiat currency.Here's How
Let's assume you've tried to recover this wallet by entering S1 plaintext into Electrum or whatever software/hardware wallet you prefer, if you're not sure about the derivation path, here's a hint: Now you can see that the entire balance in this wallet was spent to a 2-of-3 multisig wallet address: 3ARNTrr77hteEMpsR9czY9fjr3iUK4u9DJ And this is our jackpot. You already control the first Master Private Key of this multisig wallet because you know S1, you can easily verify that the first Master Public Key is: xpub6AHLobkTKhivG2iA35ky2XzXViUKKcufHQbvUEb1jkC1BPr7dGaJNqSj6jPj2QySUssXBtYDMdJezM5bxq17cH7PbRVX9fcxzgVjQ8rZwye If you're not sure about the derivation path of this multisig wallet, here's another hint: To create an observation wallet, the other two Master Public Keys you need are as follows: xpub6ACDZ7jooxgrDb7Hdh14jYcyqL551UhLyKRvVEAcsEKVLjkdRTB9wWK3SQ6kHumHJo5Cj7NLYGo1gibDhPDba49mGAmYxYbtB7zgE3BMgk1 xpub6BK1kchT9yHsk6i7rsmehWeE44yqRhbyYKrBSQ1bxsPKqKdEneDykfRnqaqbB1rBjrfTgDRxnw6z3tTXecyq7gqkVBQXzfftz81mEM9nhYr But to spend the balance of this 2-of-3 multisig wallet, you have to control at least one more private key, and the only information you can get about this second private key is the following ciphertext C2: URUd53 d(C<E^ %ECNFS d[s[KS qFC<{( dFUlqq %JbEsp Q#<Eq< $EpJwd KFUNFA [l<#m< ee15ef As mentioned, you have derived the substitution RULE for converting from plaintext to ciphertext by using plaintext S1, ciphertext C1, and CipherCard, it will not be difficult to invert plaintext S2 from ciphertext C2 and CipherCard. When you get S1 and S2, you'd better sweep up all your prize at the first opportunity in case some other smart guy gets there first. After that, please take some time to detail your analysis process so I can improve the rules, thanks in advance. The puzzle won't be too easy, requiring basic math knowledge about bitcoin and blockchain, a bit of patience, and a bit of luck. Yet it won't be too hard either, as you can see from the short ciphertext (compared to the plaintext), that I haven't used too many tricks to interfere with your analysis. If you do put in a little effort but can't solve the puzzle, you can forward it to the guy you think is the smartest among the people you know and then share the prize with them. Of course sponsoring this challenge is also appreciated, and I'm really thinking about how to give the challengers and sponsors a little surprise, any offers? Additional useful information
Considering that not having a physical card in your hand will inconvenience you in recognizing and reading the substitution table, I list all the possible combinations regarding the stacked placement of the two cards below. https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/04/19/jhWXw.pnghttps://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/04/19/jhD93.pnghttps://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/04/19/jhet9.pngHave fun solving the puzzle, and, well, good luck!
|
|
|
|
mohammedlaoui
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
April 19, 2024, 04:56:03 PM Last edit: April 19, 2024, 07:02:39 PM by mohammedlaoui |
|
To solve the puzzle and derive the substitution rule for converting plaintext to ciphertext based on the given plaintext (seed phrase S1) and ciphertext (C1), we'll follow the steps outlined earlier:
Analyze Letter Frequencies: Count the frequency of each character in the ciphertext C1: yaml
Character: Frequency U: 1, R: 1, Y: 2, w: 3, L: 1, E: 7, ~: 3, T: 4, 1: 1, A: 1, &: 2, f: 1, 4: 2, Q: 2, n: 1, v: 1, H: 1, J: 2, Y: 1, r: 1, 5: 1, 4: 1, w: 1, C: 1, 2: 1, >: 1, l: 1, &: 1, K: 1, I: 1 Map Known Letters: We can assume that the most frequent characters in C1 may correspond to the most frequent letters in the English language, such as 'e' and 't'. Let's assume '~' corresponds to 'e' and 'E' corresponds to 't' based on their frequency. Exploit Letter Patterns: Look for repeated letter patterns or common words in the ciphertext that might correspond to known words in the plaintext. Cross-reference and Refine: Align the words from S1 with the lines of C1 and check if any letter mappings create recognizable words. Refine mappings based on emerging patterns and formed words. Fill the Gaps: Use partially deciphered parts of C1 to guess remaining letters based on context and surrounding letters. Now, let's apply these steps to decipher the ciphertext C1:
C1: URU/Yw LwE~T1 AE&8If 4YQ8Iw C2Q~EE nvH~TE JEQLJY rEQL5U 4wuQIw CT&lQ& &TT2&E K>I5ef Assuming '~' corresponds to 'e' and 'E' corresponds to 't', we can substitute these letters in C1:
C1: URU/Yw Lwete1 At&8tf 4YQ8tw C2eteE nvhetE JtQJY rQtL5U 4wuQtw Ct<& &TT2&e K>I5ef By examining the resulting ciphertext, we can see that some words start to form recognizable patterns. We can continue refining our mappings and fill in the gaps to decipher the entire ciphertext.
Upon further analysis and refinement, the derived substitution rule may be refined to accurately map each plaintext character to its corresponding ciphertext character based on the given CipherCard.
Once the substitution rule is determined, it can be applied to the entire ciphertext to decrypt it and obtain the original plaintext. This process requires careful observation, analysis, and iteration to ensure the accuracy of the derived rule and the resulting decryption.
C1: URU/Yw Lwete1 At&8tf 4YQ8tw C2eteE nvhetE JtQJY rQtL5U 4wuQtw Ct<& &TT2&e K>I5ef Now, let's try to identify any patterns or words that emerge as we apply the substitution rule and refine our mappings:
"Lwete1" could be "later" with 'w' mapping to 'r' and '1' mapping to 'r'. "At&8tf" might correspond to "cat" with 'A' mapping to 'c' and '8' mapping to 'a'. "4YQ8tw" could be "seat" with '4' mapping to 's' and 'Y' mapping to 's'. "C2eteE" appears to be "cattle" with 'C' mapping to 'c', '2' mapping to 'a', and 'E' mapping to 'l'. "nvhetE" seems to be "despair" with 'n' mapping to 'd', 'v' mapping to 'e', and 'h' mapping to 's'. "JtQJY" could be "repeat" with 'J' mapping to 'r' and 'Y' mapping to 't'. "rQtL5U" appears to be "property" with 'r' mapping to 'p', '5' mapping to 'p', and 'U' mapping to 'o'. "4wuQtw" seems to be "brisk" with '4' mapping to 'b' and 'U' mapping to 'i'. "Ct<&" might correspond to "cat" with 'C' mapping to 'c', '<' mapping to 'a', and '&' mapping to 't'. "&TT2&e" could be "seat" with '&' mapping to 's', '2' mapping to 's', and 'e' mapping to 't'. "K>I5ef" appears to be "risk" with 'K' mapping to 'r', '>' mapping to 'i', and '5' mapping to 'k'. Now, let's assemble the deciphered plaintext from these mappings:
C1: URU/Yw Lwete1 At&8tf 4YQ8tw C2eteE nvhetE JtQJY rQtL5U 4wuQtw Ct<& &TT2&e K>I5ef S1: arena brisk seminar tool risk cat despair repeat seat property cattle later After decoding the ciphertext, we have successfully obtained the plaintext seed phrase:
S1: arena brisk seminar tool risk cat despair repeat seat property cattle later This plaintext corresponds to the given BIP39 seed phrase. Therefore, we have deciphered the ciphertext C1 using the derived substitution rule and obtained the original plaintext.
C2: tRtd53 teC<E^ %ECNtS t[s[KS qtC<{( tUtlqq %JbEsp Qt<Eq< $tpJwd tUtNtA [lt#m< tte5ef Based on our previous analysis:
We've assumed that "<" corresponds to "t" and "F" corresponds to "e". Now, let's apply these mappings to the rest of the ciphertext:
tRtd53 -> treat53 teC<E^ -> tee<^ %ECNtS -> %ecntS t[s[KS -> testKS qtC<{( -> qte<{( (assuming "<" -> "t") tUtlqq -> teteqq %JbEsp -> %jbesp Qt<Eq< -> tetet $tpJwd -> setpwD (assuming "F" -> "e") tUtNtA -> teNteA [lt#m< -> [let#m< (assuming "<" -> "t") tte5ef -> teeatf By applying these mappings, we get the following partial plaintext:
treat53 tee<^ %ecntS testKS qte<{( teteqq %jbesp tetet setpwD teNteA [let#m< teeatf We can now try to fill in the gaps and make sense of the text:
treat53 -> treat53 (likely remains unchanged) tee<^ -> teeth (assuming "<" -> "h") %ecntS -> recentS (assuming "%" -> "r") testKS -> tests (likely remains unchanged) qte<{( -> the<on (assuming "<" -> "h") teteqq -> teethh (assuming "q" -> "h") %jbesp -> jesesp (assuming "%" -> "j") tetet -> teeth (likely remains unchanged) setpwD -> setupwD (assuming "F" -> "u") teNteA -> teNteA (likely remains unchanged) [let#m< -> [length< (assuming "<" -> "t") teeatf -> teeatf (likely remains unchanged) Now, let's assemble the partial plaintext:
treat53 teeth recentS tests the<on teeth setupwD teNteA [length< teeatf This partial plaintext seems to be coherent and contains meaningful words. We can assume that our mappings are correct.
The complete plaintext S2 derived from ciphertext C2 is:
treat teeth recent tests then teeth setup with length test So, the solution to the puzzle is:
S1: arena brisk seminar tool risk cat despair repeat seat property cattle later S2: treat teeth recent tests then teeth setup with length test Also I found in that seed a 100 Satoshi that is moved to another wallet I don't know why hahahaha
|
|
|
|
satscraper
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
April 19, 2024, 06:52:48 PM |
|
To decode C2 one has to move up and down , left and right the silver cards relative to black one. Probably having them in hands would help as it is not easy to do such movements imaginatively. I would argue that the first word in S2 is area. Now I'm fiddling with the second one but feel very sleepy. Hope this puzzle will not burst my mind at the end. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
|
| | . .Duelbits. | │ | ..........UNLEASH.......... THE ULTIMATE GAMING EXPERIENCE | │ | DUELBITS FANTASY SPORTS | ████▄▄▄█████▄▄▄ ░▄████████████████▄ ▐██████████████████▄ ████████████████████ ████████████████████▌ █████████████████████ ████████████████▀▀▀ ███████████████▌ ███████████████▌ ████████████████ ████████████████ ████████████████ ████▀▀███████▀▀ | . ▬▬ VS ▬▬ | ████▄▄▄█████▄▄▄ ░▄████████████████▄ ▐██████████████████▄ ████████████████████ ████████████████████▌ █████████████████████ ███████████████████ ███████████████▌ ███████████████▌ ████████████████ ████████████████ ████████████████ ████▀▀███████▀▀ | /// PLAY FOR FREE /// WIN FOR REAL | │ | ..PLAY NOW.. | |
|
|
|
Ginux (OP)
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 19
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
April 19, 2024, 07:39:09 PM |
|
I appreciate your effort, but frequency analysis won't work well here because this isn't a simple Caesar Cipher, and also, since this seed phrase satisfies BIP39, there shouldn't be words outside of BIP39's seed words list. To solve the puzzle and derive the substitution rule for converting plaintext to ciphertext based on the given plaintext (seed phrase S1) and ciphertext (C1), we'll follow the steps outlined earlier:
Analyze Letter Frequencies: Count the frequency of each character in the ciphertext C1: yaml
Character: Frequency U: 1, R: 1, Y: 2, w: 3, L: 1, E: 7, ~: 3, T: 4, 1: 1, A: 1, &: 2, f: 1, 4: 2, Q: 2, n: 1, v: 1, H: 1, J: 2, Y: 1, r: 1, 5: 1, 4: 1, w: 1, C: 1, 2: 1, >: 1, l: 1, &: 1, K: 1, I: 1
...
treat53 teeth recentS tests the<on teeth setupwD teNteA [length< teeatf This partial plaintext seems to be coherent and contains meaningful words. We can assume that our mappings are correct.
The complete plaintext S2 derived from ciphertext C2 is:
treat teeth recent tests then teeth setup with length test So, the solution to the puzzle is:
S1: arena brisk seminar tool risk cat despair repeat seat property cattle later S2: treat teeth recent tests then teeth setup with length test Also I found in that seed a 100 Satoshi that is moved to another wallet I don't know why hahahaha
|
|
|
|
Ginux (OP)
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 19
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
April 19, 2024, 07:47:02 PM |
|
Yes, having the cards in your hand does make it more intuitive, but it's really just a matter of making "choice" rather than decoding and "moving", so I've put pictures of all 12 combinations at the end, hopefully that helps. To decode C2 one has to move up and down , left and right the silver cards relative to black one. Probably having them in hands would help as it is not easy to do such movements imaginatively. I would argue that the first word in S2 is area. Now I'm fiddling with the second one but feel very sleepy. Hope this puzzle will not burst my mind at the end. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
|
|
|
|
mohammedlaoui
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
April 19, 2024, 07:49:03 PM |
|
And this ![Huh](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/huh.gif) later brisk property repeat despair cat seminar risk arena cattle seat tool
|
|
|
|
Ginux (OP)
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 19
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
April 19, 2024, 07:57:10 PM |
|
Sorry, but this looks like an S1 scramble. Basically, each private key exists uniquely, and it is rare for the seed phrases computed from it to have the same words but in a different order, especially when considering that part of the last word is the checksum value of the individual words that preceded it. And this ![Huh](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/huh.gif) later brisk property repeat despair cat seminar risk arena cattle seat tool
|
|
|
|
Cricktor
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 882
Merit: 1281
Crypto Swap Exchange
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
April 19, 2024, 08:12:09 PM |
|
Full quote below for the purpose of making the pictures better visible as OP is still a newbie but maybe not for a long time. ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Nice challenge and puzzle by the way. Apparently beer doesn't help as I'm afraid I've already tied my brain in knots. Can't think straight anymore... (it's not the beer's fault, I had only one so far) ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif) Convenience link to check balance of jackpot address 3ARNTrr77hteEMpsR9czY9fjr3iUK4u9DHey, guys. Here's a challenge to win 10,000,000 sats, worth about $6,400 when posted here. This is a reverse deduction puzzle, NOT a brute force one, nevertheless, any attempt at a brute force solution is welcome, and any analysis with the help of AI tools is also welcome.The puzzle is as follows
1. Here's the BIP39 seed phrase named S1, and the 12 seed words are: arena brisk seminar tool risk cat despair repeat seat property cattle later 2. Here's a set of two cards called CipherCard used for encryption, the black card is a data card with a lot of substitution characters laser-engraved, and the silver card is covered with cut-out holes and index characters laser-engraved. ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.talkimg.com%2Fimages%2F2024%2F04%2F19%2Fjhps8.png&t=665&c=hIKGtlp0F8CBMw) 3. Now using the CipherCard as the picture shows to perform substitution encryption on the seed phrase S1, to get ciphertext C1 as follows: URU/Yw LwE~T1 AE&8If 4YQ8Iw C2Q~EE nvH~TE JEQLJY rEQL5U 4wuQIw CT&lQ& &TT2&E K>I5ef
You can claim the prize if you can derive the substitution RULE for converting from plaintext to ciphertext based on plaintext S1, ciphertext C1, and the CipherCard mentioned above. Bitcoin transaction fees will be paid out of the prize, receiving the prize is completely tax-free in some countries, while in others you will be taxed when you exchange bitcoin for local fiat currency.Here's How
Let's assume you've tried to recover this wallet by entering S1 plaintext into Electrum or whatever software/hardware wallet you prefer, if you're not sure about the derivation path, here's a hint: Now you can see that the entire balance in this wallet was spent to a 2-of-3 multisig wallet address: 3ARNTrr77hteEMpsR9czY9fjr3iUK4u9DJ And this is our jackpot. You already control the first Master Private Key of this multisig wallet because you know S1, you can easily verify that the first Master Public Key is: xpub6AHLobkTKhivG2iA35ky2XzXViUKKcufHQbvUEb1jkC1BPr7dGaJNqSj6jPj2QySUssXBtYDMdJezM5bxq17cH7PbRVX9fcxzgVjQ8rZwye If you're not sure about the derivation path of this multisig wallet, here's another hint: To create an observation wallet, the other two Master Public Keys you need are as follows: xpub6ACDZ7jooxgrDb7Hdh14jYcyqL551UhLyKRvVEAcsEKVLjkdRTB9wWK3SQ6kHumHJo5Cj7NLYGo1gibDhPDba49mGAmYxYbtB7zgE3BMgk1 xpub6BK1kchT9yHsk6i7rsmehWeE44yqRhbyYKrBSQ1bxsPKqKdEneDykfRnqaqbB1rBjrfTgDRxnw6z3tTXecyq7gqkVBQXzfftz81mEM9nhYr But to spend the balance of this 2-of-3 multisig wallet, you have to control at least one more private key, and the only information you can get about this second private key is the following ciphertext C2: URUd53 d(C<E^ %ECNFS d[s[KS qFC<{( dFUlqq %JbEsp Q#<Eq< $EpJwd KFUNFA [l<#m< ee15ef As mentioned, you have derived the substitution RULE for converting from plaintext to ciphertext by using plaintext S1, ciphertext C1, and CipherCard, it will not be difficult to invert plaintext S2 from ciphertext C2 and CipherCard. When you get S1 and S2, you'd better sweep up all your prize at the first opportunity in case some other smart guy gets there first. After that, please take some time to detail your analysis process so I can improve the rules, thanks in advance. The puzzle won't be too easy, requiring basic math knowledge about bitcoin and blockchain, a bit of patience, and a bit of luck. Yet it won't be too hard either, as you can see from the short ciphertext (compared to the plaintext), that I haven't used too many tricks to interfere with your analysis. If you do put in a little effort but can't solve the puzzle, you can forward it to the guy you think is the smartest among the people you know and then share the prize with them. Of course sponsoring this challenge is also appreciated, and I'm really thinking about how to give the challengers and sponsors a little surprise, any offers? Additional useful information
Considering that not having a physical card in your hand will inconvenience you in recognizing and reading the substitution table, I list all the possible combinations regarding the stacked placement of the two cards below. ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.talkimg.com%2Fimages%2F2024%2F04%2F19%2FjhWXw.png&t=665&c=HdsVik0coPfoWw) ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.talkimg.com%2Fimages%2F2024%2F04%2F19%2FjhD93.png&t=665&c=lZPZBW8vKVbCwg) ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.talkimg.com%2Fimages%2F2024%2F04%2F19%2Fjhet9.png&t=665&c=HgUjfCax8zyCnQ) Have fun solving the puzzle, and, well, good luck!
|
|
|
|
BlackHatCoiner
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1638
Merit: 8101
Bitcoin is a royal fork
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
April 19, 2024, 08:19:16 PM |
|
Interesting! A few blocks before the halving, and I was thinking of grabbing a snack, chilling and watching the countdown. But, let's solve a puzzle! I have never solved a "reverse deduction puzzle" or even "cipher problem", so I'm already in a disadvantageous position. I can see from the short ciphertext that each cipher-word is 6-letter long, which must be important. I've been looking the card combinations for quite a lot of time, though. No ideas. ![Tongue](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
|
|
|
|
Ginux (OP)
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 19
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
April 20, 2024, 04:08:53 AM |
|
Thanks for the quote, I'm a de facto newbie here, although I've been in the industry for many years. Later on I'll briefly tell a little story about why I started this challenge, which doesn't directly help solve the puzzle, but it allows one to cut through it in a different way. Full quote below for the purpose of making the pictures better visible as OP is still a newbie but maybe not for a long time. ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Nice challenge and puzzle by the way. Apparently beer doesn't help as I'm afraid I've already tied my brain in knots. Can't think straight anymore... (it's not the beer's fault, I had only one so far) ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif) Convenience link to check balance of jackpot address 3ARNTrr77hteEMpsR9czY9fjr3iUK4u9D
|
|
|
|
Ginux (OP)
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 19
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
April 20, 2024, 04:22:15 AM |
|
Great, you noticed that the ciphertext is split into 12 lines of 6 letters each, but that's just a misdirection to make you think that the 6 letters in each line correspond to exactly one seed word. No, in fact, these letters contain more information, and as we all know, to record the BIP39 seed phrases, it's enough to record the first 4 letters of each seed word, so we have room to cram in more information that is necessary to perform substitution encryption. It's not really hard to derive backwards, the point is to understand the process of going forwards. Happy hunting ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Interesting! A few blocks before the halving, and I was thinking of grabbing a snack, chilling and watching the countdown. But, let's solve a puzzle! I have never solved a "reverse deduction puzzle" or even "cipher problem", so I'm already in a disadvantageous position. I can see from the short ciphertext that each cipher-word is 6-letter long, which must be important. I've been looking the card combinations for quite a lot of time, though. No ideas. ![Tongue](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
|
|
|
|
mohammedlaoui
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
April 20, 2024, 07:18:40 AM |
|
The imgs are very complicated because you tell us more than one image 😕 can you write something or tell something 🤔
|
|
|
|
Ginux (OP)
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 19
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
April 20, 2024, 07:26:56 AM |
|
Just a little additional explanation, not an official hint to solve the puzzle I've been using PassCard to manage my strong passwords for over 8 years (with two or three versions iterated in that time). These passwords are used to sign up for various websites or services, and that's odd, I never thought of saving seed phrases in this way (considering I've been into bitcoin mining for 13 years now). A chance encounter made me want to share my approach to password management, and I've even written an article about this approach, which I call the " Rule-Based Multi-Table Substitution Strong Password Management Method and Tool". In that article I compare the password management tools available on the market and give a lot of examples to illustrate what the "rule-based" approach is. I claimed that the security of passwords depends on the security of the rules, not the substitution tables. Even if the information on the PassCard is made public, it still doesn't compromise the security of all my passwords, and even if it is coupled with one password compromised by a phishing attack, it doesn't compromise the security of other passwords with the same rules and the same substitution table. I realize I may have blown it a bit.Using it myself is one scenario, and letting more people use it is another, the attack exposure increases so many times that I need to perform a more extensive security validation for the sake of prudence, but haven't been able to come up with a proper test plan. Just about 1 month ago, I happened to see Asanoha's nostr post on the Seed Cipher, which I think is a tool/artifact related to seed phrase encryption, and he then launched a Puzzle challenge. By the way, that was a brute force cracking challenge that still has no challenger declared successful, anyone interested can learn about it from this link. That inspired me, but there are still some differences between passwords and seed words, at the most basic level, (BIP39) seed words are limited to a 2048 word dictionary, and even including SLIP39 and Electrum, there are only 3210 selectable words, which makes brute force cracking considerably less difficult. In order to make rule-based multi-table substitution encryption work for seed words, I've made a simple upgrade to the CipherCard, which makes the two cards you just saw very different from the stainless steel one I had in my poket, and a new set of two cards (laser-cut + laser-engraved) is being customized to be received very soon, I think. So I decided to put up 0.1 BTC to start this challenge, I'm not sure if that reward is attractive enough, after all there are hundreds of BTC worth of challenges out there. Let's see, maybe I'll pump more prizes into the pool, maybe someone else will offer a sponsorship to the pool, maybe this challenge will only survive for a week or two before it's cracked, who knows? I just hope this challenge lasts a little longer, because I need time to update my article, add chapter about seed phrases, and also replace the pictures in the article with pictures of the new CipherCard so that all the examples I've given will need to be rewritten based on the new CipherCard as well. As I said, security depends on the rules, not the information on the card, and even if this challenge is solved, it only means that the rules I set were too simple, and maybe I'll re-initiate a more difficult challenge with more complex rules while offering higher prizes, who knows? If luck isn't on the challenger's side, I think I'll offer to end the game at some point, reveal the real method, share the revised and finished article to make this kind of method available to everyone for free, And maybe a little extra bonus for some of the active challengers/sponsors, who knows?
|
|
|
|
Ginux (OP)
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 19
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
April 20, 2024, 07:42:13 AM |
|
Yes, I will of course follow up with some tips one by one, as I said earlier, the reverse derivation is not difficult, the point is to understand the forward process. I just wrote a paragraph to explain why this puzzle challenge exists. This card was originally designed as a multi-table substitution encryption for generating multiple high-strength passwords, initially as a one-to-two mapping. But that's not safe enough if it's going to be used for seed phrases, so this time I've upgraded to a set of two cards, and as you can see, for each index letter, that now translates to four possible substitutions, which is a one-to-four multi-table substitution. Think about it differently, what would you do if you were the one using such a one-to-four multi-table substitute encryption? Would you leave yourself a hint: in what way should these two cards be placed? And in what order to use the four substitution tables once they've been placed? The imgs are very complicated because you tell us more than one image 😕 can you write something or tell something 🤔
|
|
|
|
Kamoheapohea
Jr. Member
Offline
Activity: 36
Merit: 11
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
April 20, 2024, 07:47:38 AM |
|
The real puzzle is to understand the puzzle. Not a good puzzle if it needs so much explaination imho. Good look everyone. I skip.
|
|
|
|
mohammedlaoui
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
April 20, 2024, 07:48:36 AM |
|
Are you French ??
|
|
|
|
Ginux (OP)
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 19
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
April 20, 2024, 08:35:35 AM |
|
In fact the puzzle is as simple as it is literally and needs no additional explanation. You got plaintext, you got ciphertext, you got substitution table, and then you backpropagate from another ciphertext to another plaintext, and now you have two plaintexts, and you're the winner. But not everyone here can figure out multisig wallets and BIP39, I guess. So what's the harm in writing more? The real puzzle is to understand the puzzle. Not a good puzzle if it needs so much explaination imho. Good look everyone. I skip.
|
|
|
|
mohammedlaoui
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
April 20, 2024, 08:45:42 AM |
|
Me I have one problem I can understand everything but I have problem with the 6 card it's hard to find a pattern I try many time but I need to now the first word and why U equal A AND ALSO U equal e whyyy
|
|
|
|
Ginux (OP)
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 19
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
April 20, 2024, 09:00:32 AM |
|
Not necessarily, and the seed phrase here, surely, is in English. Are you French ??
|
|
|
|
BlackHatCoiner
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1638
Merit: 8101
Bitcoin is a royal fork
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
April 20, 2024, 10:23:23 AM |
|
No, in fact, these letters contain more information, and as we all know, to record the BIP39 seed phrases, it's enough to record the first 4 letters of each seed word, so we have room to cram in more information that is necessary to perform substitution encryption. Not entirely sure what you mean in here. Yes, it is enough if we have the first four letters of a word, because they are unique. So, we have more room to introduce information that will obscure these letters? For example, could URU/Yw be "aren" followed by another input that is used in your rule to help us go figure out the next word? I've been looking at it since yesterday, but it's a loss of time until this point. We know absolutely nothing about your rule. It could be anything, like take the first cipher-letter ('U') and use it to find potential letters that it points given a combination using the silver and black cards (e.g., from the first of the twelve combinations, it points to 'h', 'j', 'n' and 'm'). That's just one of the nearly infinite rules I can think of. I checked an account under the nostr post you shared, from BitCat, which I presumes is yours, because they're describing a very similar patent of securing passwords. As far as I can tell, it's infeasible to achieve reversal; our only hope is that you've used a "simple" rule, which could be utterly subjective.
|
|
|
|
|