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Author Topic: Bitcoin Taproot Update : Ordinals are killing bitcoin use case  (Read 168 times)
riverdip (OP)
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April 21, 2024, 12:42:32 PM
 #1

Man seriously they made BTC shitty after the introduction of taproot update !


I mean look at Bitcoin, its almost as same as ethereum in terms of fees



we just want Bitcoin to do one thing, just transfer Bitcoins


We do not need, NFTS and other experimental shit, we have others chains for that



We are a community should definitely do something it




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franky1
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April 21, 2024, 03:21:44 PM
Merited by NotFuzzyWarm (2)
 #2

bitcoins use case has change
this is because things called OPCODES change the use case of a transaction. whereby it changes how much data can be contained in a transaction. how much of that data is even validated/accounted/counted. and other things.

when new opcode subsets are released changing the bitcoin rules via softening the rules.. it changes how bitcoin is used.
starting with allowing 4mb of unvalidated, miscounted junk to be appended to a tx that has no functional utility of signing proof of the sats intended to be moved, but sit at the end of tx for nonsense unrelated purpose to bitcoin functionality, which most bitcoin nodes dont even check the content of such added data ..

bitcoin code(rules) were strong years ago, where every byte had purpose and was counted and checked to meet the rules..
devs used to care about every bit and byte. and want efficiency...
now devs want congestion and miscounting of bytes and inclusion of bytes that have no purpose

the whole softening of the rules in the last 7 years has not helped bitcoin. but has just helped dev politics do as they please even at the annoyances of bitcoiners..

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Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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April 21, 2024, 03:47:51 PM
Merited by NotFuzzyWarm (1)
 #3

I noticed that some opcodes get disabled.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script#Opcodes

Bitcoin uses a scripting system for transactions. Similar to Forth, Script is simple, stack-based, and processed from left to right. It is intentionally not Turing-complete, with no loops.

Bitcoin uses an append-only ledger to record transactions. Once a transaction is recorded, it cannot be altered or deleted. This is to prevent double-spending and fraud.

In accounting, this principle is known as the historical cost principle. It states that you should not change the original transactional value of an economic item reported in financial statements. Instead, if a mistake is made, it is corrected with a new entry, ensuring the integrity of the financial records. It’s like in bookkeeping - there is no erasing. You can’t go back and delete entries in an accounting book.

It’s a move-forward-only system.

P.S. I really don’t like the idea of Turing completeness. For an accounting system, loops are totally unnecessary.
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April 21, 2024, 04:08:55 PM
 #4

We are a community should definitely do something it
The devs seem very reluctant, but they will definitely have to do something about it. I just hope by the time a decision is made, it's not too late. If I have to pay fees $100 just to transfer $200 worth of BTC, then this is not a good alternative peer to peer electronic cash system.

People are going to try to look for cheaper alternatives and the growth of the Bitcoin network will reduce.

 
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SquirrelJulietGarden
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April 21, 2024, 05:30:58 PM
 #5

The devs seem very reluctant, but they will definitely have to do something about it. I just hope by the time a decision is made, it's not too late. If I have to pay fees $100 just to transfer $200 worth of BTC, then this is not a good alternative peer to peer electronic cash system.

People are going to try to look for cheaper alternatives and the growth of the Bitcoin network will reduce.
What cause reluctance of developers to fix holes that are exploited by Ordinals and Runes?

There is idea and proposal from Luke but it is a type of censorship that is not supported by Bitcoin developers. I agree with fight for freedom and against censorship because it is core value of Bitcoin and vision of Satoshi Nakamoto. We don't live our life with Satoshi Nakamoto's vision but if it is good practically, it can be continued. In contrast, if the vision is no longer good practically, something must be done to fix exploited holes.

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Faisal2202
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April 21, 2024, 06:55:45 PM
 #6

the whole softening of the rules in the last 7 years has not helped bitcoin. but has just helped dev politics do as they please even at the annoyances of bitcoiners..
I am not saying you are wrong, but Taproot has its benefits as well, although the protocols BIP 340- BIP 341 and BIP 342 are combined in the Taproot upgrade and the 341 upgrades has enabled the implementation of smart contracts which leads the creation of Dapps which is a positive sign as there will be more adoption. And few days ago people were praising Taproot and some are not as OP is not praising Taproot. Everything comes with some pros and with some cons as well.

But I think the pros are more than cons, although due to money making minds of people, the usecase of taproot
's first protocol of 340 is less while the usage of protocol of BIP-341 and BIP-342 is more. But still, I think certain limitation are needed to minimize the tx fee otherwise, things will gets a little difficult for the adoption of BTC. 

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April 21, 2024, 08:14:23 PM
 #7

Man seriously they made BTC shitty after the introduction of taproot update !
I mean look at Bitcoin, its almost as same as ethereum in terms of fees
I just want Bitcoin to do one thing, just transfer Bitcoins
I do not need, NFTS and other experimental shit, we have others chains for that
We are a community should definitely do something it

FTFY

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April 21, 2024, 08:26:41 PM
 #8

Man seriously they made BTC shitty after the introduction of taproot update !

I mean look at Bitcoin, its almost as same as ethereum in terms of fees

we just want Bitcoin to do one thing, just transfer Bitcoins

We do not need, NFTS and other experimental shit, we have others chains for that

We are a community should definitely do something it

Ordinals, which include inscriptions and Runes, are counter to Bitcoin's intended purpose which is "a purely peer-to-peer electronic cash system."

These changes to core which have increased the block size without adding additional transactions to the blocks are bloat ware and now fees have gone through the roof.

What can we do to get this garbage removed from core so Bitcoin can do what is was intended to do?

The We BTC Epiphany - Bitcoin Hardcore wallet - https://webtc.io/epiphany.html
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April 21, 2024, 08:27:56 PM
Last edit: April 21, 2024, 08:40:06 PM by franky1
Merited by Kamasylvia (2)
 #9

bitcoins use case has change
this is because things called OPCODES change the use case of a transaction. whereby it changes how much data can be contained in a transaction. how much of that data is even validated/accounted/counted. and other things.

when new opcode subsets are released changing the bitcoin rules via softening the rules.. it changes how bitcoin is used.
starting with allowing 4mb of unvalidated, miscounted junk to be appended to a tx that has no functional utility of signing proof of the sats intended to be moved, but sit at the end of tx for nonsense unrelated purpose to bitcoin functionality, which most bitcoin nodes dont even check the content of such added data ..

bitcoin code(rules) were strong years ago, where every byte had purpose and was counted and checked to meet the rules..
devs used to care about every bit and byte. and want efficiency...
now devs want congestion and miscounting of bytes and inclusion of bytes that have no purpose

the whole softening of the rules in the last 7 years has not helped bitcoin. but has just helped dev politics do as they please even at the annoyances of bitcoiners..

Yes, you are correct that Bitcoin's use case has evolved over time due to changes in opcode rules. Opcodes enable the execution of specific operations within a Bitcoin transaction. When new opcode subsets are released, it can modify the rules of Bitcoin by allowing for different data sizes and validation processes.

The introduction of new opcodes can increase the data capacity of a transaction, allowing for the inclusion of additional information that may not be directly related to the intended purpose of the transaction. While some Bitcoin nodes may not validate or analyze the content of such added data, it still becomes a part of the transaction.

yes, past tense

actually no.. let me clarify


opcodes used to only be activated when they were needed for new features by actually including conditions, limitations and expectation to give nodes something to validate and reject if they didnt meet those conditions..
however activated opcodes with no conditions is the problem.. as there is no size limit or validation formatting requirement of unconditioned opcodes.. and there lays the exploit/problem

there was a subset of opcodes made during segwit activation season where a few dozen extra opcodes were made active but without conditions set
and then when taproot activation occured, now there are hundreds of opcodes that are active without conditions

these opcodes should not have been active by default(hindesights a b!tch). but instead should have periodically activated when new features were needed/(after proposed, reviewed,scrutinised), where conditions would have been set and the network of nodes would then upgrade to be network ready to validate such conditions and then the feature can be activated knowing the network is ready to validate a new features

but the softening of consensus (which WAS a concept of network readiness majority before activation), has caused the controversy.
now there are many opcodes that nodes dont have conditions to validate, so just pass and let into the blockchain. unchecked.
and people are exploiting that consensus softening of not needing node readiness for new features


whats needed now is to clean up the cludgy code.. and refine the code to actually want to know whats being added to the blockchain by requiring new features to be proposed where a myriad of node brands collectively use consensus to be network ready of new features before feature activation(before trojan gets passed the gatekeepers) whereby the new features have conditions of validity to be checked. where every byte is explained by its purpose and every byte is counted and has reason for being.
its called network security
its called data efficiency
where we get back to offering feature of actual utility and leanness of real functionality and validity checking

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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