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Author Topic: Is the IRS ruling that bad really?  (Read 1967 times)
CryptoPanda
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March 30, 2014, 09:59:04 AM
 #1

I mean most people should have expected regulation similar to that right? Not many people expected they will declare it a currency right away?
Also at least now the institutional investors know how much tax they will have to pay on their long term investments in bitcoin, which is 15% and that's supposed to be good, right? I believe that uncertainty was of the reasons they couldn't invest until now?


Yes it will be accounting nightmare for retail users that buy every day stuff with it, but come on, who really accounts their coffee spending and stuff?

My vision is:
big business will comply
smaller and medium business that don't want to deal with the accounting overhead will just formally move to Isle of Man, Germany or Singapore.
Institutional investors will finally jump on board with nice chunk of change.
The retail users won't even bother and will just do stuff as they did until now.

One fun question, when was the last time when you heard about that waitress in the US sued for not declaring her income from tips?  If you haven't heard about that case, it's because it never happened.

Discuss Smiley

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greenlion
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March 30, 2014, 10:33:19 AM
 #2

The IRS guidance is exactly what anybody who knows about anything would've guessed in the first place, there were only two points that were in play / suprising --

1. Mining as immediate income declaration

2. No currency use-case exemption
dreamspark
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March 30, 2014, 11:08:48 AM
 #3

No its not that bad at all and as said exactly what most people would expect. I feel that any news at the moment is being spun in a bad light. Really starts to feel like the bottom when this is happening.

I think most people will carry on as normal like you say, for the general small user it shouldn't really change much.
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March 30, 2014, 03:13:37 PM
 #4

sorry for the stupid question, what is the IRS?
atp1916
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March 30, 2014, 03:47:04 PM
 #5

This ruling is good.

Now i know how what i need to do to make my mining business legit.

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March 30, 2014, 04:09:22 PM
 #6

sorry for the stupid question, what is the IRS?
Google it. It has its own wiki site Smiley

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March 30, 2014, 04:10:05 PM
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sorry for the stupid question, what is the IRS?
The IRS is the national tax authorities, belongs to the civil service establishment administrative organs.

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Keyser
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March 30, 2014, 05:15:50 PM
 #8

I don't have any problem paying taxes on my profit from bitcoin as long as I can claim the losses too.  So as it stands I am down and should be able to claim a loss, so this is good news right?
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March 30, 2014, 05:20:35 PM
 #9

I see it as good.  I'd rather it be taxed than banned. 


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superdork
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March 30, 2014, 05:29:24 PM
 #10

Is anyone really going to pay taxes on bitcoin? Really?

Maybe a few big time investors, but normal people shouldn't be affected by this at all. How hard is it to shuffle your coins around a bit or sell them anonymously for cash?

Anyone paying taxes is choosing to do so. And I have my doubts as to how many bitcoin users will choose to pay taxes.

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atp1916
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March 30, 2014, 05:33:20 PM
 #11

Is anyone really going to pay taxes on bitcoin? Really?

Maybe a few big time investors, but normal people shouldn't be affected by this at all. How hard is it to shuffle your coins around a bit or sell them anonymously for cash?

Anyone paying taxes is choosing to do so. And I have my doubts as to how many bitcoin users will choose to pay taxes.

I don't go to jail over anything...unless it is a righteous cause.  

Tax evasion is not a righteous cause.
superdork
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March 30, 2014, 06:04:06 PM
 #12

Is anyone really going to pay taxes on bitcoin? Really?

Maybe a few big time investors, but normal people shouldn't be affected by this at all. How hard is it to shuffle your coins around a bit or sell them anonymously for cash?

Anyone paying taxes is choosing to do so. And I have my doubts as to how many bitcoin users will choose to pay taxes.

I don't go to jail over anything...unless it is a righteous cause.  

Tax evasion is not a righteous cause.


That is highly debatable.   So what winds up happening is that we pay income tax to pay back the central bank (fed reserve) for the interest they charge us (as a private corporation) to use money (which is supposed to be created by congress thru the treasury for no interest at all) that they create out of thin air but receive MASSIVE profits for, by basically enslaving our citizens and our country as debt slaves...

So exactly how "righteous" is it to be supporting THAT system?



From the Grace Commision (mind you debt to the fed and interest on that debt has gone up WAY more than US income since the 80s, so we are paying them more now)

....“With two thirds of everyone’s personal income taxes wasted or not collected, 100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the federal debt and by federal government contributions to transfer payments. In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services [that] taxpayers expect from their government."

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superdork
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March 30, 2014, 06:06:43 PM
 #13

They might find out how great of a system this is when basically everyone who claims anything bitcoin related claims a loss and nobody at all claims profit.

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lppeu
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March 30, 2014, 06:26:22 PM
 #14

I dislike the IRS decision.

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atp1916
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March 30, 2014, 06:28:13 PM
 #15

@Superdork:

The righteous cause would be then reforming the system (voting out the bad apples / repealing/rewriting tax code / removing/remodeling abusive institutions) so that taxation once again is married to representation, yes?  

If i pay taxes like a "good citizen" and uphold my particular social contract obligations (re: paying taxes), then the government should hold up their end of the deal too by applying those taxes to the duties/services as outlined in the Constitution.

Unfortunately......there is such amount of taxation without representation that if i didn't risk going to jail for tax evasion i likely wouldn't agree to pay any taxes until things changed.
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March 30, 2014, 06:40:55 PM
 #16

Is anyone really going to pay taxes on bitcoin? Really?
Some will, at first. As the technology continues to evolve, however, tax collection on BTC will become more and more farcical, until it fades away like a bad memory.

See: Torrent culture sharing vs. Corporate copywrong war.


Related: Dead Dollar Walking: The Truth About Government Debt

Tangentially Related: First as tragedy, then as farce

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
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March 30, 2014, 10:39:31 PM
 #17

Is anyone really going to pay taxes on bitcoin? Really?

Maybe a few big time investors, but normal people shouldn't be affected by this at all. How hard is it to shuffle your coins around a bit or sell them anonymously for cash?

Anyone paying taxes is choosing to do so. And I have my doubts as to how many bitcoin users will choose to pay taxes.

Well...just as a word to the wise...the Bitcoin address at the bottom of your posts would probably be a good place for the Feds to start to followup on you through the blockchain if they chose to...and unless you have been religiously using a Tor browser for all of your posts here as "Superdork"...you've probably left a pretty big signature of IP addresses as a second strike.

As the other poster responded to you...personally I don't see the value in risking jail time for tax evasion. Your milage may vary.
CryptoPanda
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April 01, 2014, 06:27:14 PM
 #18

And it turns out the every day user should only report on transactions over $600
Wondering how the initial burst of news articles missed that quite critical point?

So no accounting nightmare in everyday transactions, that's a big thing I believe?

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April 01, 2014, 06:40:48 PM
 #19

I mean most people should have expected regulation similar to that right? Not many people expected they will declare it a currency right away?
Also at least now the institutional investors know how much tax they will have to pay on their long term investments in bitcoin, which is 15% and that's supposed to be good, right? I believe that uncertainty was of the reasons they couldn't invest until now?


Yes it will be accounting nightmare for retail users that buy every day stuff with it, but come on, who really accounts their coffee spending and stuff?

My vision is:
big business will comply
smaller and medium business that don't want to deal with the accounting overhead will just formally move to Isle of Man, Germany or Singapore.
Institutional investors will finally jump on board with nice chunk of change.
The retail users won't even bother and will just do stuff as they did until now.

One fun question, when was the last time when you heard about that waitress in the US sued for not declaring her income from tips?  If you haven't heard about that case, it's because it never happened.

Discuss Smiley

I think that the crypto-anarchists, instead of spreading FUD about the IRS and bitcoin, should start their own guides on how to evade taxes with bitcoin, and how to avoid AML monitoring using bitcoin.  How many people here know what a Suspicious Activity Report is, and who and when the government requires it to be filed, without knowledge to the target?  It would be much more of a service to a portion of the bitcoin community than sniping at and harassing people that plan to pay their taxes like adults.   Sticking your head in the sand and pretending such laws aren't enforced doesn't mean the IRS and tax collection and KYC/AML laws are going away overnight.

If such guides were compiled, they would see a lot more use than would be publicly admitted.
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April 02, 2014, 07:39:21 AM
 #20

It's basically the same tax treatment gold gets. What's the problem?
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