Fixed supply doesn't matter (change my mind)

[Deferential]

When the Tether scam finally crashes and burns the BTC ecosystem will be set free from a huge pending crisis. Obviously, the supply of Bitcoin is not being inflated. Fixed supply does matter, whether you believe it or not.

If fixed supply can be infinitely inflated (when it comes to price) and thus creating a bubble that can burst, it is not being different from supply that is not fixed.

Example, current Bitcoin price inflated by Tether printer with no real backing.

https://i.imgflip.com/8ppmmm.jpg
Fixed supply of BTC doesn't matter, when the price can be infinitely inflated by Tether printer.

[Ambatman]

It does to certain extent. It increase the value of a product in the minds of humans.
Besides Fiat would continue falling in value and has fallen by more than 95% since the 19's
And anything or most goods or service not Fiat would increase in value in relation.
About tether,  I have no idea how something that came up around 2014 can influence Bitcoin of 2009 not withholding it has been rising before the advent of tether.
Bitcoin price is not really been inflated. It's kinda relative. let's take two runners A and B both running at 30Km/h and A speeds starts declining to say 24Km/h while the B moves
to 31Km/h doesn't mean the speed of the B has increased by 7Km/h
It just shows the other speed has fallen. This is similar to Bitcoin/other goods or service and Fiat.
While it falls overtime the others are barely affected or even increase bit the fall of Fiat makes the increase seem pronounced.
Bitcoin is an asset
People value it for its fixed supply among other benefits
So that's proof that it matters.
Customers desires plays a role in the price of any goods.

[MeGold666]

...
Bitcoin is an asset
People value it for its fixed supply among other benefits
So that's proof that it matters.
...

Surely it seems very attractive after being a part of FIAT system, but my point was that it can be abused indirectly with artificial price growth and financial bubbles we all know from FIAT world.

Significant part of current price is due to Tether printer and not actual demand.

So the fixed supply does not defend from bursting of this bubbles as Tether can collapse any day while USD will be just fine, what won't be fine is the Bitcoin price diving uncontrollably due to massive panic sales.

[HopeGen]

Surely it seems very attractive after being a part of FIAT system, but my point was that it can be abused indirectly with artificial price growth and financial bubbles we all know from FIAT world.

Significant part of current price is due to Tether printer and not actual demand.

So the fixed supply does not defend from bursting of this bubbles as Tether can collapse any day while USD will be just fine, what won't be fine is the Bitcoin price diving uncontrollably due to massive panic sales.

Most people on the forum would probably agree with these points, imo. At the same time they will be critical of the topic title, maybe this discussion should be a Tether topic in altcoins? 

[oktana]

I think you’re not understanding it as you should. Fixed supply means that the total supply is fixed and can’t move. This is not because Bitcoin is worth a lot of money today. What it means is that even if Bitcoin because $1 for each, we still can’t have more than the defined total supply. This is very different for a currency that doesn’t have a fixed supply and keeps on getting created. Its value will keep decreasing due to increase in the total supply.

[Ambatman]

...
Bitcoin is an asset
People value it for its fixed supply among other benefits
So that's proof that it matters.
...

Surely it seems very attractive after being a part of FIAT system, but my point was that it can be abused indirectly with artificial price growth and financial bubbles we all know from FIAT world.

Significant part of current price is due to Tether printer and not actual demand.

So the fixed supply does not defend from bursting of this bubbles as Tether can collapse any day while USD will be just fine, what won't be fine is the Bitcoin price diving uncontrollably due to massive panic sales.

In a nutshell you saying Bitcoin has no significant Demand.
The thing is anything that occurs to big player in the market affect everyone
Yes Bitcoin would dip
Not the first time nor the second nor the last
But it would surely rise higher when everything calms.
Like I said Bitcoin survived without Tether for 5 years while still a toddler
How wouldn't it survive without it as an Adolescent.
The fixed supply like I said is one of the reasons many people place value on Bitcoin and because of the scarcity in the future.
People would want to own it now that's cheaper
It's like land
It falls during economic crisis or war
Despite having limited supply and substantial uses
Doesn't mean it wouldn't pick back up when everything settles
Why?
Because it's limited in supply, needed and would increase as time goes on.
You don't have to over think it
Usdt isn't the biggest problem of Bitcoin.

[MeGold666]

Yes Bitcoin would dip
Not the first time nor the second nor the last
But it would surely rise higher when everything calms.

That's a bold claim.

Like I said Bitcoin survived without Tether for 5 years while still a toddler
How wouldn't it survive without it as an Adolescent.

Times have changed, Bitcoin was once used due to it's privacy but when that dropped DNM's replaced it with different project.
People still tried to use BTC privately but the recent attack on mixers will shift this people to different solutions.

So far no one was able to change my mind, the outcome is the same as if the Bitcoin supply itself was inflated.

[Maus0728]

It does matter, with an endless supply, that would mean that we can just wait for more bitcoins to be mined and the desire to acquire it is just too low which means that there's lower demand and the prices would be lower, you can't do what DeBeers did with diamonds to bitcoin, large supply but through conspiracy, being able to inflate the price. Look at all these altcoins out there with billions in total supply if not bottomless, are they as desirable to acquire as bitcoin, what's their current price?

[Ambatman]

That's a bold claim

Likewise your statement that Bitcoin supply is inflated.

So far no one was able to change my mind, the outcome is the same as if the Bitcoin supply itself was inflated.

in essence you mean Bitcoin price is overrated. It shouldn't worth is current amount?
Well value sometimes is subjective
To you it isn't worth it
To others it's undervalue
Everybody has their view
And as Adult be ready to face the consequences of their decision.
Not trying to change your mind
Just pointing out my view.

Times have changed, Bitcoin was once used due to it's privacy but when that dropped DNM's replaced it with different project.
People still tried to use BTC privately but the recent attack on mixers will shift this people to different solutions.

Bitcoin wasn't created technically for privacy but decentralization system which because of scalabilty is failing out but it has grown bigger than just a peer to peer system.
The different solution like Privacy coins? That the government are actively fighting against?
Or methods like atomic swap that still makes use of Bitcoin?
Privacy was the single reason many option for Bitcoin.
The thing you neglecting is the belief of the public
Bitcoin is the face of the cryptoworld and for cryptocurrency to stay alive Bitcoin has to be alive
There are coins with better privacy, better scalabilty and functions but Bitcoin still remains the first because it's Bitcoin and still remains practically the most decentralized blockchain.
That assurance itself is a utility.
It's profitability is a utility.
The cost to mine a BTC also adds to its value.


If you believe it's useless and has nothing to offer then take it as a collectible with potential.

[Ambatman]

So far no one was able to change my mind, the outcome is the same as if the Bitcoin supply itself was inflated.

It would be great if we can see your reasons why you believe such
How do you put it again
Convince us that Bitcoin supply is inflated
Personally look forward to understanding your view.

[bSpend]

If fixed supply can be infinitely inflated (when it comes to price) and thus creating a bubble that can burst, it is not being different from supply that is not fixed.

Example, current Bitcoin price inflated by Tether printer with no real backing.


Fixed supply of BTC doesn't matter, when the price can be infinitely inflated by Tether printer.

As much as I understand the point you are trying to make, which actually can and would have been true and justifiable only if bitcoin and tether were a product of the same company, or under the same company.
But the fact that Bitcoin is a stand alone crypto currency that is not controlled by any company or individual, make bitcoin imunune to any form of price inflation, tether has and can't inflate the price the price of bitcoin, if they need bitcoin, they have to buy it from the open market just as everyone does, and for them to make any profit, other  investors have to also invest in bitcoin too, which means that when the demand for bitcoin becomes high, it's price rise according to the level of its demand, tether has no way of inflating the price of bitcoin, before you even imagine this, you would have first tried to find out how many bitcoin tether (as a company) has in their custody, and also check at what price they bought it, then compare that to the current price of bitcoin, then tell us if it was tether that inflated it's price.

[MeGold666]

...
But the fact that Bitcoin is a stand alone crypto currency that is not controlled by any company or individual, make bitcoin imunune to any form of price inflation
...

https://youtu.be/eafzIW52Rgc?t=1049

[MeGold666]

It would be great if we can see your reasons why you believe such
How do you put it again
Convince us that Bitcoin supply is inflated
Personally look forward to understanding your view.

Basically what is happening right now is deflation by inflating the price of Bitcoin through Tether printer without real backing.

When this breaks (and it will break at some point) the outcome will be the same as if the actual supply of BTC was inflated as the value will drop significantly (as if the supply was increased).

It's good that it's fixed as at least we're not attacked from both sides but the threat remains the same.

[Bulltard]

Basically what is happening right now is deflation by inflating the price of Bitcoin through Tether printer without real backing.

When this breaks (and it will break at some point) the outcome will be the same as if the actual supply of BTC was inflated as the value will drop significantly (as if the supply was increased).

It's good that it's fixed as at least we're not attacked from both sides but the threat remains the same.

please stop using terms you don't understand.

deflation by inflation? really? stop looking for attention. you're just embarrassing yourself.
people replying to you are just trying to increase their post count... but again your whole thread makes zero sense.

[MeGold666]

please stop using terms you don't understand.

deflation by inflation? really? stop looking for attention. you're just embarrassing yourself.
people replying to you are just trying to increase their post count... but again your whole thread makes zero sense.

I have studied economy for few years so I think I understand the words I use here in the discussion.

If it bothers you that much, maybe find some other thread to discuss.

[Ambatman]

But the fact that Bitcoin is a stand alone crypto currency that is not controlled by any company or individual, make bitcoin imunune to any form of price inflation

Bitcoin isn't immune to inflation, it's just Inflation Resistant.

people replying to you are just trying to increase their post count... but again your whole thread makes zero sense.

Lol you funny. If they or I plan on increasing Post count then I just have to post in the gambling board
There atleast I can receive a bonus on my campaign
I'm engaged because I'm curious and enjoy economics like alot
Though I had to switch option for personal reasons my love still remains.

It would be great if we can see your reasons why you believe such
How do you put it again
Convince us that Bitcoin supply is inflated
Personally look forward to understanding your view.

Basically what is happening right now is deflation by inflating the price of Bitcoin through Tether printer without real backing.

When this breaks (and it will break at some point) the outcome will be the same as if the actual supply of BTC was inflated as the value will drop significantly (as if the supply was increased).

It's good that it's fixed as at least we're not attacked from both sides but the threat remains the same.

Okay I think now I get what you saying
But like you said "as if the actual supply was inflated " does not mean it was inflated
It just look like it because the price falls and it would experience a dip like inflationary coins
Doesn't make it same as inflationary coins.
I shoot a goat on the head it dies
I shoot a human on the head it does
They both died doesn't make them same.
I think I would go with Devaluation through inflating price since we talking about currency and what you implying is Bitcoin price is inflated then it wouldn't just be Bitcoin
Every goods and services in this world price are inflated including land
And if it burst like you said
The price of everything would fall and if it does
Then it's like nothing relatively fell and Bitcoin value would still be around same since it wouldnt be the only thing affected.
Tether in the long run is meaningless.

[MeGold666]

Every goods and services in this world price are inflated including land
And if it burst like you said
The price of everything would fall and if it does
Then it's like nothing relatively fell and Bitcoin value would still be around same since it wouldnt be the only thing affected.
Tether in the long run is meaningless.

Why would everything fall with Tether and Bitcoin ?

Every cryptocurrency would be affected with varying degree but outside it wouldn't make an echo.

[Ambatman]

Every goods and services in this world price are inflated including land
And if it burst like you said
The price of everything would fall and if it does
Then it's like nothing relatively fell and Bitcoin value would still be around same since it wouldnt be the only thing affected.
Tether in the long run is meaningless.

Why would everything fall with Tether and Bitcoin ?

Every cryptocurrency would be affected with varying degree but outside it wouldn't make an echo.

I'm talking about Fiat not tether.
Like I said tether is meaningless in the grand scheme of things
Fiat yes that I can consider.
If it's just tether then I don't really see the essence of the discussion because the highest it's fall would do is make wave that would affect weak hands and once everything settles recovering creeps in.
USDT isn't the only pair in the market
If you hell bent in believe tether can affect Bitcoin supply then I would have to give you the win
Because I believe its pointless.
Besides Bitcoin inflation decreases over time until it would get to zero and then move to the negatives

It was fun while it lasted I guess.

[MeGold666]

I'm talking about Fiat not tether.
Like I said tether is meaningless in the grand scheme of things
Fiat yes that I can consider.
If it's just tether then I don't really see the essence of the discussion because the highest it's fall would do is make wave that would affect weak hands and once everything settles recovering creeps in.
USDT isn't the only pair in the market
If you hell bent in believe tether can affect Bitcoin supply then I would have to give you the win
Because I believe its pointless.
Besides Bitcoin inflation decreases over time until it would get to zero and then move to the negatives

It was fun while it lasted I guess.

I think you underestimate the effect of Tether collapse and I wouldn't count so much on the recovery phase.

Let's say price recovery is successful, there will still be a period (who knows how long, could be years, could be decades) where the Bitcoin you now own will buy you less goods in this period, as if... it was inflated.

I guess we agree on the threat but not necessarily on the impact power.

I personally don't believe in recovery at this level of magnitude as the mining industry would collapse.

[kryptqnick]

I had to read more of op's replies to get an understanding of op's argument because it wasn't clear from the original post to me. Bitcoin's price is not getting inflated. The price is determined by supply and demand: since the supply is fixed (although still growing slowly) but the demand is increasing over time (as more people get to know Bitcoin and want to try it out), the price grows in the long run. To me, it has nothing to do with Tether, and Bitcoin isn't "controlled by the printers". Sure, Tether is traded a lot against Bitcoin, but that's just out of convenience, since the price of Tether is pegged to the USD.