Fixed supply doesn't matter (change my mind)

[MeGold666]

I had to read more of op's replies to get an understanding of op's argument because it wasn't clear from the original post to me.

Thank you for your time, my English is not the best and sometimes I have trouble expressing my thoughts.

The price is determined by supply and demand

The equation is still valid in this threat model, the problem here is with creating fake demand.

[Ambatman]

The equation is still valid in this threat model, the problem here is with creating fake demand.

Do you have the data to back this claim that fake demand was created?

I think you underestimate the effect of Tether collapse and I wouldn't count so much on the recovery phase

I don't
I know how much it would affect the market. It has the highest daily trading volume and it's fall could lead to a crash in cryptocurrency
Doesn't necessarily mean it would end it. People have tasted digital currency
They wouldn't want to let it go.

where the Bitcoin you now own will buy you less goods in this period

diminishing marginal returns would creep into Bitcoin but not now and not immediately to this extent and yes the recovery took years but the Market survived that's what I'm trying to get across.
It would be inflated if the supply wasn't fixed. Resources get expensive because of scarcity. If Bitcoin let's say gets to $1M that would be ≈$21 trillion neglecting lost Bitcoins and Fiat is circulation is around $2.3 trillion today
Now imagine the value it would be for a depreciating asset whose supply can be infinitely increased.
Even if Bitcoin fails and falls it wouldn't be because of tether.

[MeGold666]

The problem is that large portion of Bitcoin is currently backed by Tether (due to mentioned convenience), and Tether company buying Bitcoin as collateral to... their printed Tether (which is creating fake demand).

Even if the demand would be all real it still falls into the same threat pit as this investors will have trouble recovering money from Tether scam for reinvesting again in Bitcoin.

[NotATether]

I wonder how Tether benefits from an increased supply of USDT though, unless they are holding other cryptocurrencies. Because assuming they don't (not in any meaningful denominations, actually, relative to the amount of Tether they printed), USDT to USD is relatively stable. So barring some trading against their own token, I'm not sure how that helps them actually.

Except for maybe business contracts they get with other firms as the result of Tether being the #1 stablecoin. But that's the only thing I can think of.

[MeGold666]

I wonder how Tether benefits from an increased supply of USDT though, unless they are holding other cryptocurrencies. Because assuming they don't (not in any meaningful denominations, actually, relative to the amount of Tether they printed), USDT to USD is relatively stable. So barring some trading against their own token, I'm not sure how that helps them actually.

Except for maybe business contracts they get with other firms as the result of Tether being the #1 stablecoin. But that's the only thing I can think of.

They can basically inflate Bitcoin price on demand and buy it practically for free as they control the Tether printer.

It's a loop that creates a bubble.

[Z-tight]

The problem is that large portion of Bitcoin is currently backed by Tether (due to mentioned convenience), and Tether company buying Bitcoin as collateral to... their printed Tether (which is creating fake demand).

I am having a hard time understanding you, BTC is not backed by tether, it is not backed by anything, but its active community that buys and sells it, gives it its value. Usdt is backed by the U.S dollars they claim to have in their reserves, and that is why it is pegged 1-to-1 with the U.S dollar, though i know there are so many usdt coins backed by thin air.

Even if the demand would be all real it still falls into the same threat pit as this investors will have trouble recovering money from Tether scam for reinvesting again in Bitcoin.

If you are holding BTC, then you are holding BTC, if you are holding usdt, then you are holding usdt, the failure of one does not affect the other.

[MeGold666]

I am having a hard time understanding you, BTC is not backed by tether, it is not backed by anything, but its active community that buys and sells it, gives it its value. Usdt is backed by the U.S dollars they claim to have in their reserves, and that is why it is pegged 1-to-1 with the U.S dollar, though i know there are so many usdt coins backed by thin air.

Tether is not being backed 1-to-1 with USD for a long time now, according to Tether company. It is pegged, until it isn't.

If you are holding BTC, then you are holding BTC, if you are holding usdt, then you are holding usdt, the failure of one does not affect the other.

Yes, number of coins you hold won't change - ever. But the price will and Tether collapsing will have indirectly the same effect as if more Bitcoin was printed (more than the scheduled emission).
Unless it will recover from that massive collapse which I already expressed my opinion about.

Another question regarding this scenario is, how many people will not panic sale and will be able to hold until it recovers - in result many will be affected as if it was inflation of coins itself.

[stompix]

So far no one was able to change my mind, the outcome is the same as if the Bitcoin supply itself was inflated.

Because you don't want to listen and you try to convince others of this.

You're like a guy claiming that Mt Everest is 2000 meters tall and unless someone comes and plants more than 2000 1 meter sticks one after the other till the top you won't believe it's higher than that. And when somebody finally does you argue the sticks were not 1 meter but another length, and so on!

So rather than convincing you, how about you prove your theory with numbers, a collapse of tether (for what reason and why and at what intensity) that would trigger a collapse of Bitcoin to the same levels...as? What levels? Where do we even stop thinking bitcoin is not fighting inflation because if you go long terms you would need Bitcoin to fall below $1 to prove your theory and I am certain you won't be able to prove this will happen in case of a tether collapse!

[MeGold666]

Because you don't want to listen and you try to convince others of this.

You have missed the point of this thread my friend, it's not about Tether (which was brought up for discussion to explain more easily) - it's about the fixed supply not defending against this inflation threat.

[stompix]

Because you don't want to listen and you try to convince others of this.

You have missed the point of this thread my friend, it's not about Tether (which was brought up for discussion to explain more easily) - it's about the fixed supply not defending against this inflation threat.

And I say it does prove me wrong! See how this works? 

[MeGold666]

And I say it does prove me wrong! See how this works? 

Sipping coffee while waiting for someone that could abolish this threat... 

[Natsuu]

So far no one was able to change my mind, the outcome is the same as if the Bitcoin supply itself was inflated.

Because you don't want to listen and you try to convince others of this.

This is arrogance from OP. You better learn how market, economics, and money system works too. In a nutshell, any thing in value the greater the scarcity the greater is value. While bitcoin price may get higher, the cost of living gets higher too. Since there is scarcity, only small population have the ability to control its price it could be sold in higher prices.

So don't focus so much in Bitcoin when analyzing it. Focus on other aspect that people also need because that affect the prices of other assets. It's the housing systems, interest rates, indices. Because after all those are built by people who deemed it to make lives people better. Not just as a ticker on the market.

[Bulltard]

please stop using terms you don't understand.

deflation by inflation? really? stop looking for attention. you're just embarrassing yourself.
people replying to you are just trying to increase their post count... but again your whole thread makes zero sense.

I have studied economy for few years so I think I understand the words I use here in the discussion.

If it bothers you that much, maybe find some other thread to discuss.

you studied online? on youtube?

bruh you're posting nonsense.
if your take is bitcoin's price only holds because of tether and tether is a scam, just say that.
don't go posting shit like "deflation by inflation" (rofl), "fixed supply can be infinitely inflated"(omg).

seriously, i understand you want to inflate your post count but you're only deflating your overall reputation.

[MeGold666]

I will prepare an in-depth analysis of the problem when I catch some time.
Will post in a while.

[Z-tight]

I will prepare an in-depth analysis of the problem when I catch some time.
Will post in a while.

That will probably be better, what you have said in this topic so far does not really make too much sense and you are comparing unrelated things. I don't know what the problem you are talking about is, but make sure the next post is something most of us can understand, if not forget about it and just take corrections you have received in this topic.

[davis196]

If fixed supply can be infinitely inflated (when it comes to price) and thus creating a bubble that can burst, it is not being different from supply that is not fixed.

Example, current Bitcoin price inflated by Tether printer with no real backing.


Fixed supply of BTC doesn't matter, when the price can be infinitely inflated by Tether printer.

Inflation means fiat money losing value, not BTC having higher price. You are using the term "inflation" in a wrong way.
Financial bubbles are normal for assets that have lower supply and higher(of fluctuating) demand. I don't care about the BTC price going up and down and price bubbles being formed on the BTC market. If you hate price bubbles, just use some altcoin with an infinite supply.
Tether is being used by the crypto traders for their own convenience. The crypto traders could sell or buy altcoins for tether as well.
Why do you think that Tether is boosting the Bitcoin price only?

[Casdinyard]

If fixed supply can be infinitely inflated (when it comes to price) and thus creating a bubble that can burst, it is not being different from supply that is not fixed.

Example, current Bitcoin price inflated by Tether printer with no real backing.


Fixed supply of BTC doesn't matter, when the price can be infinitely inflated by Tether printer.

Uhm wat

Where have read bitcoin's price being inflated? I think you got the terms mixed up lol. Bitcoin is deflationary, supply getting depleted faster than its value, eventually leading to a massive price increase which is the bubble you're talking about. But the thing about bitcoin is, it is not a bubble, the reasons why it's pumping so hard during bull seasons are downright unreasonable and stupid yes, but it doesn't mean they aren't reasons. That's why Warren Buffet can't wrap his drawers with skid marks around bitcoin, even though his company's started to claim its stake in it.

So yeah. Bitcoin's not inflationary, it's deflationary; there's no bubble of which you speak of, because bitcoin's valuation, whether it's 60k or 500k, is highly justifiable, and bitcoin is not pegged to any coin, nor currency whatsoever, it rides its own boat, its own wave, which is why even though the world economy is fucked up right now and we're heading towards one of the largest crashes in the history of the planet, bitcoin's still sitting pretty tightly in its 65k valuation.

[Bulltard]

So yeah. Bitcoin's not inflationary, it's deflationary

wtf. where am i? is there a hidden camera somewhere?

[The Cryptovator]

I think we can't change your mind. Because you aren't ready to hear us. Limited supply means you can't add new coins to the circulating supply. Why are you comparing price with supply? There won't be a limit on the Bitcoin price. Because it's decentralised, anyone can buy and sell it at any price. This isn't a product like gold for which we can set a selling price. Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency, and it is highly volatile. We can't eat the volatiles anyway. Price doesn't have any functionality with Bitcoin. 

[harapan]

Fact is bitcoin price is greatly different from it supply limits, and you shouldn't make such presumption calculation that bitcoin price equal it real value when bitcoin can move both sides in price, bitcoin fixed supply means that no more than 21 million bitcoina will ever be in cyculatuon unlike fiat where government print money multiple times in a year without regards to the currency value.

Does it necessarily mean that bitcoin works separately from it's supply.Bitcoin's price changes because of its supply, the market's demand,media and news,and regulatory changes.
Bitcoin is neither issued nor regulated by a central government and,therefore,is not subject to governmental monetary policies unlike fait systems.
However,the supply of something(assets) helps with initializing and determining the price.