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Author Topic: Never borrow money to be able to gamble  (Read 2672 times)
Oasisman
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May 22, 2024, 01:32:06 PM
 #161

Well just 2 days ago, I took just a short loan using some apps, it's just like $100 and just wanting to scratch that itch and go and travel to a landbase casinos and see how it goes for me. And with this small amount, I could have decided to go to play online, but I just wanted to go out and play on my favorite offline casinos.

To make it short, yeah, stupid I am, I lost that money and then immediately jump on to make a loan of another $100. But the same result, I have up and down in baccarat and slot machines. But at the end of the night, I went home, with nothing and then I have to pay that loan.

So it's a expensive lesson to learn for me, but I will be alright, I can pay that loan within a month.

I think you will never learn from that mistake to be honest with you. Because, it seems like you were never worried about the first $100 loan and then you added another $100, so that is like around $200+ or $300 in return when you pay for it from the lender.
Since you can easily pay for it within a month, there will be a good chance you'll get used to that kind of system. You take a loan and pay it within a month, this will go on cycle, no matter if you get a win and pay it in advance, AFAIK lenders do take a guaranteed interest for 1 month even if you pay early. With that interest, you will never get to fully enjoy and maximize the profit when you win, that's why it's always a smart decision to just use your own money than take a loan solely for gambling purposes.

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May 22, 2024, 01:34:36 PM
 #162

The convenience of borrowing is you don’t need to move your own money or wait for your pay day by just paying an interest rate. I don’t suggest to gamble using borrowed money but doing it in proper moderation is not a sign of addiction or foolishness.

That's the way to be a responsible gambler. Some of us borrow money because we need to, and whether it's for gambling or something else, it doesn't matter as long as we are willing to repay it. I have borrowed money for gambling before, but it's not a big deal for me because I'm not addicted. It's only risky if you are addicted to gambling and borrow money, as then you'll likely not be able to repay it.

Some people avoid borrowing for gambling because they are afraid of getting addicted. I get it—it's about minimizing risk and being honest with themselves. We all have different ways of managing risk. Some people are not good at handling high-risk activities like borrowing money for gambling, which is what we've discussed.
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May 22, 2024, 01:51:19 PM
 #163

Some people avoid borrowing for gambling because they are afraid of getting addicted. I get it—it's about minimizing risk and being honest with themselves. We all have different ways of managing risk. Some people are not good at handling high-risk activities like borrowing money for gambling, which is what we've discussed.
I don't get the idea to borrow for gambling.

What most people said taking a loan is fine as long as you can manage the risk is if you borrow for something that will make you to earn money like business or trading, while gambling is for fun. If your purpose gamble to earn money, it's already wrong in the first place.

So if you borrow for gambling, you're losing your money two times, one for gambling and another one the interest fees.

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May 22, 2024, 01:57:29 PM
 #164

I can't stop thinking if someone volunteered to borrow money to play gambling, but just playing gambling is something that is risky for everyone regardless of status, the big possibility is that the person's brain has changed their way of thinking, I'd better avoid that. I'm the same as getting into a hole of trouble if I do it just to play gambling, which means I'm wasting money, I'd rather wait for the results of my hard work and set aside a little money for gambling, at least not borrowing money just to gamble, of course. it would be double the risk if I did that...

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May 22, 2024, 02:06:47 PM
 #165


I see no reason giving out loans to a friend who is not credit worthy, no matter the situation the person is in and the level of relationship that exists. A person who has a very low income should work hard to increase his income. If he thinks gambling is the only way out, then he is just being lazy and irresponsible. Even if he must gamble, he or she should at least work for the money he will use to gamble, instead of being indebted to lots of people.


Maybe this will be experienced by a small portion of someone's experience because basically it is true that actions like this are not recommended to be carried out because the risks are very high and can worsen someone's life, but maybe there are also only a few people who have experienced experiences like this and maybe this done secretly.

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May 22, 2024, 02:33:16 PM
 #166

I can't stop thinking if someone volunteered to borrow money to play gambling, but just playing gambling is something that is risky for everyone regardless of status, the big possibility is that the person's brain has changed their way of thinking, I'd better avoid that. I'm the same as getting into a hole of trouble if I do it just to play gambling, which means I'm wasting money, I'd rather wait for the results of my hard work and set aside a little money for gambling, at least not borrowing money just to gamble, of course. it would be double the risk if I did that...
Whether we borrowed money to gamble or we use our spare money , it is good we understand that gambling is not 100% predictable.  Anyhow we choose to gamble, it is important we play bet with risk management so that we don't end up losing everything that we have. As we are having high expectations of winning, we should also have it in mind that we could lose bet since everything in gambling is all about luck. If we are so lucky, we could make money in betting without doing extra labour to merit a particular winnings. We can borrow money to gamble but it should not be a high amount. We should always borrow what we know we can lose.

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Oilacris
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May 22, 2024, 02:48:46 PM
 #167

Well just 2 days ago, I took just a short loan using some apps, it's just like $100 and just wanting to scratch that itch and go and travel to a landbase casinos and see how it goes for me. And with this small amount, I could have decided to go to play online, but I just wanted to go out and play on my favorite offline casinos.

To make it short, yeah, stupid I am, I lost that money and then immediately jump on to make a loan of another $100. But the same result, I have up and down in baccarat and slot machines. But at the end of the night, I went home, with nothing and then I have to pay that loan.

So it's a expensive lesson to learn for me, but I will be alright, I can pay that loan within a month.

I think you will never learn from that mistake to be honest with you. Because, it seems like you were never worried about the first $100 loan and then you added another $100, so that is like around $200+ or $300 in return when you pay for it from the lender.
Since you can easily pay for it within a month, there will be a good chance you'll get used to that kind of system. You take a loan and pay it within a month, this will go on cycle, no matter if you get a win and pay it in advance, AFAIK lenders do take a guaranteed interest for 1 month even if you pay early. With that interest, you will never get to fully enjoy and maximize the profit when you win, that's why it's always a smart decision to just use your own money than take a loan solely for gambling purposes.

You wont really be able to learn not until you would really be able to experience those unfortunate conditions on which you wont really be changing up something which is really that vary normal for a human nature on having this kind of behavior. Gambling is something just that for fun and the moment that you do find yourself that being spending on the money which are intended for other important
things then this do really indicates that you are already that becoming addicted to it and this is something which is dangerous into your finances. This is why it would really be better that you would really be that sensible nor wary on the actions that you are making because every decisions been made would definitely reflect out or would really be that resulting whether negative or positive.

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May 22, 2024, 03:56:27 PM
 #168


I think you will never learn from that mistake to be honest with you. Because, it seems like you were never worried about the first $100 loan and then you added another $100, so that is like around $200+ or $300 in return when you pay for it from the lender.
Since you can easily pay for it within a month, there will be a good chance you'll get used to that kind of system. You take a loan and pay it within a month, this will go on cycle, no matter if you get a win and pay it in advance, AFAIK lenders do take a guaranteed interest for 1 month even if you pay early. With that interest, you will never get to fully enjoy and maximize the profit when you win, that's why it's always a smart decision to just use your own money than take a loan solely for gambling purposes.

You wont really be able to learn not until you would really be able to experience those unfortunate conditions on which you wont really be changing up something which is really that vary normal for a human nature on having this kind of behavior. Gambling is something just that for fun and the moment that you do find yourself that being spending on the money which are intended for other important
things then this do really indicates that you are already that becoming addicted to it and this is something which is dangerous into your finances. This is why it would really be better that you would really be that sensible nor wary on the actions that you are making because every decisions been made would definitely reflect out or would really be that resulting whether negative or positive.

Yes that's right, addiction can be indicated by how you treat gambling itself, or simply if for example you gamble with a budget that you should use for other things in your life such as meeting the needs of the house then clearly it can be called a sign - a sign that you have started to enter the addiction phase where you gamble in a way that tends to force things.
addiction phase where you gamble in a way that tends to force things.

As we know that addiction can occur consciously and unconsciously but in various cases usually more gamblers enter the addiction phase unconsciously which usually happens when a gambler has experienced an increase in interest in gambling activities.
an increase in interest in his gambling activity. This is the reason why a gambler is always advised to be wise in every decision, and also this is the reason why a gambler is always advised to use common sense and rational thinking every time he gambles, none other than so that you can make the right decision.


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May 22, 2024, 04:01:34 PM
 #169

I can't stop thinking if someone volunteered to borrow money to play gambling, but just playing gambling is something that is risky for everyone regardless of status, the big possibility is that the person's brain has changed their way of thinking, I'd better avoid that. I'm the same as getting into a hole of trouble if I do it just to play gambling, which means I'm wasting money, I'd rather wait for the results of my hard work and set aside a little money for gambling, at least not borrowing money just to gamble, of course. it would be double the risk if I did that...
Whether we borrowed money to gamble or we use our spare money , it is good we understand that gambling is not 100% predictable.  Anyhow we choose to gamble, it is important we play bet with risk management so that we don't end up losing everything that we have. As we are having high expectations of winning, we should also have it in mind that we could lose bet since everything in gambling is all about luck. If we are so lucky, we could make money in betting without doing extra labour to merit a particular winnings. We can borrow money to gamble but it should not be a high amount. We should always borrow what we know we can lose.
yes gambling is not 100% predictable it is luck dependent in must of the time. If one does not have his own money and cannot afford to lose his money in gambling, then he should not gamble with borrowed money.  Because if he loses the borrowed money in gambling, he will not find any way to recover it and he will be in great danger. but luckily if he wins the gamble and can double his borrowed money then it will bring him a lot of happiness as well as financial support. However, it is very rare to see anyone succeeding in gambling.  And for this reason borrowed money should not be used in such risky places

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May 22, 2024, 04:17:51 PM
 #170

Quote from: Wakate
Quote from: bitcampaign
I can't stop thinking if someone volunteered to borrow money to play gambling, but just playing gambling is something that is risky for everyone regardless of status, the big possibility is that the person's brain has changed their way of thinking, I'd better avoid that. I'm the same as getting into a hole of trouble if I do it just to play gambling, which means I'm wasting money, I'd rather wait for the results of my hard work and set aside a little money for gambling, at least not borrowing money just to gamble, of course. it would be double the risk if I did that...
Whether we borrowed money to gamble or we use our spare money , it is good we understand that gambling is not 100% predictable.  Anyhow we choose to gamble, it is important we play bet with risk management so that we don't end up losing everything that we have. As we are having high expectations of winning, we should also have it in mind that we could lose bet since everything in gambling is all about luck. If we are so lucky, we could make money in betting without doing extra labour to merit a particular winnings. We can borrow money to gamble but it should not be a high amount. We should always borrow what we know we can lose.
Hope you know you will not be comfortable with your borrow money to gamble like the way you will be comfortable to make a good prediction that will make you win, because there are some tension that follow people that borrowed money to gamble because they use to gamble with fear.

You can use spare money to gamble, and you will be comfortable to see what will happen at the end either win or lose, which are two things you must see at the end of gambling, but it is better to make your winning higher than losing if you want to enjoy gambling.

There is no way you can borrow small money to gamble, because once the money finish, you will like to borrow more to win your money back and it will make you to lose more, which is the reason borrowing money to gamble is not advisable to gamblers.

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May 22, 2024, 04:29:00 PM
 #171

People who borrow money to gamble mean they have an addiction, it will be very difficult to fix. I agree with the points you gave, it will make gambling more focused and safer. Many of my friends borrow money from online loans to gamble and in the end they can't pay. One of the reasons not to gamble with borrowed money is that the risk of not being able to pay is very high. Gambling is a game and cannot provide definite profits, so if you lose while gambling it will be more difficult for you to pay. Apart from that, it will also worsen financial losses, because apart from losing your money, you also have to replace the money you borrowed. This will make the situation even more complicated. You have to be more careful because otherwise your family will definitely be affected.

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May 22, 2024, 04:40:31 PM
 #172

People who borrow money to gamble mean they have an addiction, it will be very difficult to fix. I agree with the points you gave, it will make gambling more focused and safer. Many of my friends borrow money from online loans to gamble and in the end they can't pay. One of the reasons not to gamble with borrowed money is that the risk of not being able to pay is very high. Gambling is a game and cannot provide definite profits, so if you lose while gambling it will be more difficult for you to pay. Apart from that, it will also worsen financial losses, because apart from losing your money, you also have to replace the money you borrowed. This will make the situation even more complicated. You have to be more careful because otherwise your family will definitely be affected.
It is better that if you don't have money, you should not gamble. As a matter of fact, it is not that you should gamble when you even have money, buy you should only gamble when you have spare money after taking care of your expenses, whatever leftover, you can take part of it for gambling. This is done so that you don't use money for important thing to gamble since gambling is not very important in our lives.

Gamble is not a business that you believe that at the end of the day, you will make profit and be able to pay whoever that you borrowed money from. Gamble will instead take the little money that you have, which is why it is unethical to borrow money for gambling because it shows sign of irresponsible gambling and addiction. There are other better things to borrow money for and not to gamble.

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May 22, 2024, 05:19:23 PM
 #173

Gambling is already very risky and if one does not have a lot of financial freedom then the person should refrain from gambling where borrowing money to gamble is never a good decision for a person. The outcome of gambling is completely uncertain and no money can be borrowed depending on this uncertainty. We should gamble only when we earn money alternatively and when we use a portion of that earned money to gamble that losing the money will not have any negative impact on our life financially. Many people may make the mistake of thinking about the positive aspects of gambling and gambling by borrowing money from others without having money of their own. But when he gambles wrongly and loses his entire money, he realizes that the decision he took to gamble must be wrong.

people want to make money by all means so even going to the extent of borrowing money to gamble is not really necessary to me, and people that are addicted will see nothing wrong with gambling with borrowed money and if they can not pay back they start having police case everywhere. because the nature of gambling having an uncertain result makes it very annoying to depend on so if i borrow money and i gamble with it and i lose i will be pained because the thought of paying the money back and also the thought of losing will put me in depression, in other to avoid this situation i will avoid borrowing to gamble am sure some people have committed suicide just because of the thought they borrowed money and they can not pay back all in the name of having a sure game, and i don't believe in all does and if i don't have money to gamble is not by force i will rest until i have money to gamble.

And this are part of the reasons you see people losing all there wealth to gambling just because they want to win, we know that anyone can be carried away but i don't think am ready to take this kind of risk, its a thing of choice so it will be better to reduce how we gamble to avoid such thoughts because in this economy we don't need to risk anything to much especially for gambling that is not promised, it is interesting especially when you win but don't put to much energy into into it.

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May 22, 2024, 05:21:47 PM
 #174

That's foolishness, any gambler who's borrowing to gamble all in the name of winning to double the money he has borrowed if fucking foolish. It's obvious that many people are into gamble to because they want to make money and it's very dangerous that they have to go beyond borrowing money all in the name of gambling. Greediness is like a sickness and it's obvious that more gamblers of nowadays are getting addicted to gamble because of their greediness.

It’s depends whether the borrower is borrowing money within the range he is capable to pay and also with the amount he can afford to lose. I do borrow sometimes for gambling but only with minimal amount which I can easily pay with my money in the bank anytime I want.

The convenience of borrowing is you don’t need to move your own money or wait for your pay day by just paying an interest rate. I don’t suggest to gamble using borrowed money but doing it in proper moderation is not a sign of addiction or foolishness.


There is a point to what you said, if you look at how much you borrow for gambling and how responsible you are with the loan problem, indeed we can rely on borrowed money by gambling as long as we are able to pay the loan money, but I think this method is not suitable for the long term, let alone used in people who are already dependent on gambling, because financial problems will not always be smooth. It's like putting a time bomb, it will be scary in the future if we can't cover the loan. It's better to gamble modestly, gamble with money you can afford to lose.

yes I support you on this, but one thing is that we can't rely on borrowed money to gamble. Ok for ristance, what if along the line playing the bet and you lose all. What will be first thing that'll comes up to your mind? That it's a borrowed money and how are you gonna pay it back., then at that moment you start thinking and start pressuring yourself over it. So you can't rely on borrowed money to gamble cause you're making a big risk ever, what I'll first of all advise is that you shouldn't take gambling as an option but only take it an entertainment then you'll enjoy every bit your gambling lifestyle. And whenever you notice that you've started borrowing money to gamble please look around and ask yourself it's not proper.
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May 22, 2024, 06:19:45 PM
 #175

That's foolishness, any gambler who's borrowing to gamble all in the name of winning to double the money he has borrowed if fucking foolish. It's obvious that many people are into gamble to because they want to make money and it's very dangerous that they have to go beyond borrowing money all in the name of gambling. Greediness is like a sickness and it's obvious that more gamblers of nowadays are getting addicted to gamble because of their greediness.

It’s depends whether the borrower is borrowing money within the range he is capable to pay and also with the amount he can afford to lose. I do borrow sometimes for gambling but only with minimal amount which I can easily pay with my money in the bank anytime I want.

The convenience of borrowing is you don’t need to move your own money or wait for your pay day by just paying an interest rate. I don’t suggest to gamble using borrowed money but doing it in proper moderation is not a sign of addiction or foolishness.


There is a point to what you said, if you look at how much you borrow for gambling and how responsible you are with the loan problem, indeed we can rely on borrowed money by gambling as long as we are able to pay the loan money, but I think this method is not suitable for the long term, let alone used in people who are already dependent on gambling, because financial problems will not always be smooth. It's like putting a time bomb, it will be scary in the future if we can't cover the loan. It's better to gamble modestly, gamble with money you can afford to lose.

yes I support you on this, but one thing is that we can't rely on borrowed money to gamble. Ok for ristance, what if along the line playing the bet and you lose all. What will be first thing that'll comes up to your mind? That it's a borrowed money and how are you gonna pay it back., then at that moment you start thinking and start pressuring yourself over it. So you can't rely on borrowed money to gamble cause you're making a big risk ever, what I'll first of all advise is that you shouldn't take gambling as an option but only take it an entertainment then you'll enjoy every bit your gambling lifestyle. And whenever you notice that you've started borrowing money to gamble please look around and ask yourself it's not proper.


For whatever purpose gamblers claim they gamble for, it very very inappropriate to borrow or take loan just to gamble. Some of us are saying it because of addiction I agree totally but also I consider that as the highest level of stupidity any gambler can have.

Instead of borrowing to start a business, project, investment deals or some other personal stuff, you use it for gambling mehnn I can't relate to it all it sickening. It a financial error, what you ain't sure of winning you borrow to play. If you have anyone involved in this we need help them probably psychiatric hospital can do more good.
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May 22, 2024, 06:29:17 PM
 #176

People who borrow money to gamble mean they have an addiction, it will be very difficult to fix. I agree with the points you gave, it will make gambling more focused and safer. Many of my friends borrow money from online loans to gamble and in the end they can't pay. One of the reasons not to gamble with borrowed money is that the risk of not being able to pay is very high. Gambling is a game and cannot provide definite profits, so if you lose while gambling it will be more difficult for you to pay. Apart from that, it will also worsen financial losses, because apart from losing your money, you also have to replace the money you borrowed. This will make the situation even more complicated. You have to be more careful because otherwise your family will definitely be affected.
I was once an addicted gambler and it got so bad that one day, I had to go borrow money from a close friend just to satisfy my gambling addiction but the most thoughtless thing about my decision to borrow that day was that I didn't even know how to raise the money to pay him back if I eventually lose the money. So the only conviction I had was that I'm definitely going to win and return his money while taking the rest one I won as my gain for gambling but unfortunately for me, I lost that money and it brought serious issues between me and my friend because I couldn't pay back the money. Gambling is one of the worst things that can happen to anyone because it'll ruin so many things about an affected person including relationships with friends and relatives. It's never a good decision to borrow money to gamble and no matter how tempting the urge to borrow grows in any gambler, my advise is that you shouldn't ever borrow money to gamble

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May 22, 2024, 06:36:00 PM
 #177

.With you knowing this elements, you won't bother to go to the extreme of borrowing money to gamble. So have you borrowed money to gamble? If you do please take notes of this and stop it.

It's a suicidal journey to gamble with a borrowed fund, money that is not yours, money given to you to keep, money that is not yours, never use them to gamble. Using these money to gamble is risking yourself what comes after the gambling you are doing and no matter how good you are good with gambling skills, don't try it. The moment you lost that money, the next thing that will come to your mind is how to recover it and your target will be how to get money to recover the previous ones you have played and you will definitely lose everything.

For your own safety, gamble with your own money and if you must use your money, let it be an amount you know is not significant to you in any form, an amount you know will add nothing valuable to you, amount you know you are risking free. This gives you hedge to prepare for what comes after, your own safety is the amount you are risking, so stake low amount and sleep well. Grin

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May 22, 2024, 09:12:35 PM
 #178

If a gambler will continue to have that kind of mindset, he's nowhere to go. Many of his friends are going to be away from him if he has taken a loan already from them even they're paid.

Because out of the activity of being a gambler, they'll look to themselves being a partaker of their friend who's addicted and has the habit of taking loan for gambling.


Yes, you are right, if we have a friend who is a gambler, especially if he is said to be a serious addict, we must always be careful because it could be that we often borrow money from us and the money will not be returned quickly.
Sometimes, if we have a very close relationship with a friend, perhaps we will not bear the suffering he is experiencing and with compassion we are ready to help him by lending him money even if it is used for gambling.
However, we must always remember that we must be prepared to give up the money if the return does not match the promise to be paid. So, those are the consequences and risks that we will bear ourselves if we lend money to gambling friends.
It is not going to help if you tolerate him and you still lend him some money even if you understand the situation and it's okay for you that you have the idea that guy might not be able to pay.

It is not compassion if you're going to help him get some money so that he can continue to gamble. A real friend won't tolerate that but instead will educate the addicted gambler to stop it.

Whether he'll get love or hate from that addicted gambler, at least you have expressed and said the right thing to do.

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iBaba
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May 22, 2024, 09:58:26 PM
 #179

It is not going to help if you tolerate him and you still lend him some money even if you understand the situation and it's okay for you that you have the idea that guy might not be able to pay.

It is not compassion if you're going to help him get some money so that he can continue to gamble. A real friend won't tolerate that but instead will educate the addicted gambler to stop it.

Whether he'll get love or hate from that addicted gambler, at least you have expressed and said the right thing to do.

If I was a friend to an addictive gambler and I am in a shoe to advise them to stop gambling, I won't hesitate or stop doing that at any minute I got the opportunity to do so. I have oftentimes try to relate the addiction of gambling to that of drug abuse, permit me if that's not true in your opinion, hence it's very difficult to survive it whenever you're an addict.

I have a friend who was a drug addict and another one who was an addict in gambling. The only difference between them was that the gambler was able to leave gambling in the long run, whereas the drug addict had to pass through rehabilitation before he stopped but they almost behave the same. Like, when they are broke, they still try to go into the practice even when it will require them to borrow money from people around them. And even after they have promised to stop, they can still hide and go back.

So, if I was a friend to an addicted gambler, I won't stop to advise and encourage him to stop, part of which is denying him the funds to play the gamble even when I have it.

.
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Fatunad
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May 22, 2024, 09:59:40 PM
Last edit: May 22, 2024, 11:28:23 PM by Fatunad
 #180

It is not going to help if you tolerate him and you still lend him some money even if you understand the situation and it's okay for you that you have the idea that guy might not be able to pay.

It is not compassion if you're going to help him get some money so that he can continue to gamble. A real friend won't tolerate that but instead will educate the addicted gambler to stop it.

Whether he'll get love or hate from that addicted gambler, at least you have expressed and said the right thing to do.

If I was a friend to an addictive gambler and I am in a shoe to advise them to stop gambling, I won't hesitate or stop doing that at any minute I got the opportunity to do so. I have oftentimes try to relate the addiction of gambling to that of drug abuse, permit me if that's not true in your opinion, hence it's very difficult to survive it whenever you're an addict.

I have a friend who was a drug addict and another one who was an addict in gambling. The only difference between them was that the gambler was able to leave gambling in the long run, whereas the drug addict had to pass through rehabilitation before he stopped but they almost behave the same. Like, when they are broke, they still try to go into the practice even when it will require them to borrow money from people around them. And even after they have promised to stop, they can still hide and go back.

So, if I was a friend to an addicted gambler, I won't stop to advise and encourage him to stop, part of which is denying him the funds to play the gamble even when I have it.
On the moment that you are addicted, you wont really be listening into any advise and we do know all of that. It would really be that too easy to make out some suggestions that you should be telling this and that
but in the end you are the ones who would really be needing to have that kind of self realization and save up yourself on the effect of gambling addiction. When you do gamble then only make use of the amount
on which it is really just that an extra. Never ever make yourself that spending which is more than on what you do earn or even that trying out to make use of your life savings which it is the most foolish thing to be done. If you dont have that money to play then why would really be that deciding to play which is more than that you can afford to lose?

It would really be that impossible that you wont really be able to notice out that you are already that losing that much on which it would really be something that affecting your finances already.
It all matters on someones sensibility and common sense that you are losing that much and this is something that you must avoid at all cost because spending which is more that
on what you can afford to lose will really be that resulting into a disaster if things doesnt really that handled out well.
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