Monero vs Bitcoin - Price charts for the last month looking very good

[justdimin]

but yeah OP, I still don't get your Bitcoin hate.

It's a love/hate relationship. Bitcoin was a revolution that changed my life - not directly, because I never got into it, but for showing that it's possible to have true decentralized digital cash without any centralized governance. Without it, Monero would never have existed.

The problem I see with Bitcoin is that it became a great tool (if not the greatest) for surveilling people, and it hasn't evolved (enough) to combat that. But even worse is the narrative within the Bitcoin community to HODL (not use it), as I already described in my other post:

The grim truth about cryptocurrency community

Even understanding the point of view that you want to have something more private and want something that is non-governmentalized, I also would like you to realize the reality of the world we live in and how you can't go mainstream without government approve, and you need not just government approval, but if you do not want that, then you need all of us to agree with you.

Because if 100+ million people start to use monero everyday, then yeah monero could work without government approval as well, but we are not, because we do not want to do what you do, and we do not believe in the things you do. So making other people your opponents  or your enemies isn't going to get monero the future you desire, it would only ruin it.

[d5000]

you need all of us to agree with you. [...] So making other people your opponents  or your enemies isn't going to get monero the future you desire, it would only ruin it.

Who are you referring to as "us", Bitcoiners? There's a lot of overlap between XMR and BTC hodlers -- big percentage of XMR hodlers are probably also BTC hodlers, but the other way around it's of course much less. I agree with you however that the OP's hostile tone is probably not helping Monero at all, it could even trigger hate against it. I guess that's your post all about?

Probably many Monero fans are vowing for a very gradual increase of XMR user base in comparison to BTC. Monero usage statistics look on the whole quite good (transactions per day are growing very slowly but steadily, despite of the delistings, while BTC is stagnating in this area or even falling). But if the current trends continue, XMR will surpass BTC perhaps in the year 2100 or so

I think it could also be a good idea to talk about the fundamentals of a possible BTC -> XMR trend here. Privacy is of course the big driver now. But a higher availability of merchants for XMR would probably be also very important (yes, I know CoinCards). And of course the availability of good P2P tools (which are improving but still a bit technical). And also if the charts continue to look good, eventually the "big altcoin crowd" could "discover" Monero again. This may drive relatively few people long term into XMR but a small portion (perhaps 20%) could become "believers" and hodlers.

100 million XMR users would be indeed a quite nice number. I think that is reachable if the points I mention improve. However, then scalability would become an issue, and that's a weakness of XMR, at least I haven't seen any proposals for second layers (and XMR's tech seems also to make that very difficult or impossible).

[MeGold666]

...However, then scalability would become an issue, and that's a weakness of XMR, at least I haven't seen any proposals for second layers (and XMR's tech seems also to make that very difficult or impossible).

I suggest you listen to ArticMine about scalability issues in Bitcoin and how Monero solved them.

Francisco Cabañas “ArticMine” on Scaling Monero

Currently, Monero is limited only by internet infrastructure and node capacity (CPU power), as the protocol itself is not limited like Bitcoin's.

This infrastructure is rapidly evolving, and Monero can handle more and more transactions per second because it is truly scalable.

People who done their research know Monero biggest advantage is scalability, privacy is just a nice bonus.

Because if 100+ million people start to use monero everyday, then yeah monero could work without government approval as well, but we are not, because we do not want to do what you do, and we do not believe in the things you do. So making other people your opponents  or your enemies isn't going to get monero the future you desire, it would only ruin it.

Everywhere where Bitcoin and Monero is available as payment option, people choose Monero - this are facts, and each day more merchants are adding it because it increases sales.

Deal with it or keep living in your little bubble.

[d5000]

Currently, Monero is limited only by internet infrastructure and node capacity (CPU power), as the protocol itself is not limited like Bitcoin's.
This infrastructure is rapidly evolving, and Monero can handle more and more transactions per second because it is truly scalable.

"Node capacity" is exactly the problem here: If the requirements for full nodes become too high, then it will become more expensive to run a full node. It will also become more hassle to run a client like Feather, which processes all blocks but doesn't store them.

And if you use a client which connects to another node to process the blocks for you, you can't talk about privacy really. Do you want privacy only for the rich?

Currently this is not a problem. But if Monero really had significantly more than Bitcoin's transaction volume it would become already more difficult to handle, above all for users with weak hardware and internet connections.

Thus I would strongly suggest the XMR community to not rule out a second layer solution. It is difficult to imagine given the scripting limitations of XMR but it could perhaps be based on a technology similar to BitVM.

[MeGold666]

Thus I would strongly suggest the XMR community to not rule out a second layer solution. It is difficult to imagine given the scripting limitations of XMR but it could perhaps be based on a technology similar to BitVM.

About a year ago there was a community driven stress test on test-net:

https://monero.com/post/spackle-xmr%20publishes%20first%20progress%20report%20for%20Monero%20'Stressnet'%20project/


Currently Monero L1 can handle much greater traffic than Bitcoin without any trouble on the infrastructure side and without high fees.

I wouldn't be worried about nodes not having enough power, every kid¹ nowadays have a supercomputer power of yesterday at their disposal.

1. - unless you live in a Nigeria or other hell on earth, then I'm sorry - you may not be able to afford a node and you'll need to use a remote one.

[tygeade]

Everywhere where Bitcoin and Monero is available as payment option, people choose Monero - this are facts, and each day more merchants are adding it because it increases sales.

While I understand the admiration towards Monero for being better than bitcoin on blockchain development, it has never been about blockchain development at all. There are over a dozen projects that has a better blockchain than bitcoin and if you really want to make sure that you are making a profit then you need to realize this isn't going to be easy at all for monero to grow compared to bitcoin.

You need to do better and you need to realize that monero isn't growing or going down any given moment because of its blockchain. One thing monero has is privacy, so if there is a reason when people want more privacy, monero goes up, when people are more comfortable, monero goes down. That is it, nothing more and bitcoin has nothing to do with it at all.

[WatChe]

While I understand the admiration towards Monero for being better than bitcoin on blockchain development, it has never been about blockchain development at all. There are over a dozen projects that has a better blockchain than bitcoin and if you really want to make sure that you are making a profit then you need to realize this isn't going to be easy at all for monero to grow compared to bitcoin.

You need to do better and you need to realize that monero isn't growing or going down any given moment because of its blockchain. One thing monero has is privacy, so if there is a reason when people want more privacy, monero goes up, when people are more comfortable, monero goes down. That is it, nothing more and bitcoin has nothing to do with it at all.

There are many alts available that have better settlement rates compared to bitcoin or have unique features that are not present in bitcoin. What makes bitcoin unique is it's decentralization and security feature which is not present in other alts. As per my knowledge, there is no Alt available till date that is fully decentralised like bitcoin. Moreover the whole crypto marker is linked with price of Bitcoin, i.e. Bitcoin goes up, so does the alts and vice versa.

Monero may be a good alt but it's certainly not comparable with Bitcoin as of today.

[MeGold666]

You need to do better and you need to realize that monero isn't growing or going down any given moment because of its blockchain. One thing monero has is privacy, so if there is a reason when people want more privacy, monero goes up, when people are more comfortable, monero goes down. That is it, nothing more and bitcoin has nothing to do with it at all.

What you say is true only if you close your eyes.

Monero is not just about privacy, but also about scalability, and there is no other project that can compare to it without being a premine, dev-tax, company, or some other nonsense.

I suggest you watch this:

Francisco Cabañas “ArticMine” on Scaling Monero

To understand that it's just a matter of time until Monero gets a higher dollar valuation than Bitcoin.

There are many alts available that have better settlement rates compared to bitcoin or have unique features that are not present in bitcoin. What makes bitcoin unique is it's decentralization and security feature which is not present in other alts. As per my knowledge, there is no Alt available till date that is fully decentralised like bitcoin. Moreover the whole crypto marker is linked with price of Bitcoin, i.e. Bitcoin goes up, so does the alts and vice versa.

Monero may be a good alt but it's certainly not comparable with Bitcoin as of today.

Monero has better decentralization than Bitcoin because it doesn't rely on large mining farms controlled by a few big companies.

You don't want to compare Monero to Bitcoin because you know (or don't) that it is better in every way.

[d5000]

1. - unless you live in a Nigeria or other hell on earth, then I'm sorry - you may not be able to afford a node and you'll need to use a remote one.

In my country (a typical mid-income country, much higher GDP per capita than Nigeria) kids from lower/middle classes have typically only smartphones (no PCs) with capped internet contracts, some as low as 2 GB/month. They wouldn't waste their precious data which they could use for TikTok and friends for a big block blockchain.

I think you get the point. The bigger the blocks, the less accessible the blockchain. The sad thing is that privacy coins like Monero are really needed in many countries where poor data connections are common and the governments lean to the authoritarian side. Currently it's still okay but again, with a transaction volume higher than BTC that wouldn't be the case anymore.

The crucial question is: is it really necessary to store every payment in the world on all full nodes? Can't we bundle some transactions (and that's what L2s do) and use the main chain for the important ones?

I've searched the Internet a bit and there were actually projects of L2s for Monero. There's one active one called Tari, but it seems to be premined, and imho it's far too centralized to really be what Monero needs. A drivechain-like structure would be much better.

[tygeade]

You need to do better and you need to realize that monero isn't growing or going down any given moment because of its blockchain. One thing monero has is privacy, so if there is a reason when people want more privacy, monero goes up, when people are more comfortable, monero goes down. That is it, nothing more and bitcoin has nothing to do with it at all.

What you say is true only if you close your eyes.

Monero is not just about privacy, but also about scalability, and there is no other project that can compare to it without being a premine, dev-tax, company, or some other nonsense.

I suggest you watch this:

Francisco Cabañas “ArticMine” on Scaling Monero

To understand that it's just a matter of time until Monero gets a higher dollar valuation than Bitcoin.

Bitcoin premine was long time ago and not being touched, satoshi might be dead, or even if he is not, he hasn't been around at all. But I am making no sense, what am I talking about against a person who actually believes that marketcap of monero will go over bitcoin.

If you actually believe that, then there is not really that much to talk about. Just because someone made a video that convinced you, doesn't mean that everyone will, and you can see the market to see how little people like monero and how much they like bitcoin and maybe realize that what you believe, is not believed by others. And that is what the crypto market is, what people believe, if people believe in something then they do it and if they do not believe it then they do not do it that is it.

[MeGold666]

I think you get the point. The bigger the blocks, the less accessible the blockchain.

The point of bigger blocks is to keep transactions fast and cheap. This way, kids in your country will still have access to the Monero blockchain through remote-nodes, and they will be able to afford it.

Bitcoin, on the other hand, will be too expensive and too slow. Second-layer solutions are not Bitcoin - you might as well use PayPal and forget about it all.

Decentralization is only getting better in Monero, with more nodes each year, because globally people have better computers over time.
This are only the visible nodes, there are also plenty hidden ones:
https://monero.fail/map

The actual number might be higher than Bitcoin.

If you actually believe that, then there is not really that much to talk about. Just because someone made a video that convinced you, doesn't mean that everyone will, and you can see the market to see how little people like monero and how much they like bitcoin and maybe realize that what you believe, is not believed by others. And that is what the crypto market is, what people believe, if people believe in something then they do it and if they do not believe it then they do not do it that is it.

I like how you speak on behalf of all people without any facts, the fact is Monero is used more than Bitcoin wherever both are present, check for example CoinCards.
https://x.com/CoinCards/status/1809702144288882870

[FinneysTrueVision]

I like how you speak on behalf of all people without any facts, the fact is Monero is used more than Bitcoin wherever both are present, check for example CoinCards.
https://x.com/CoinCards/status/1809702144288882870

You are cherry-picking a post from last year. Their most recent stats are pinned on their profile and tell a different story.
https://x.com/CoinCards/status/1917973334278676663

Either way, there isn’t much to extrapolate from an obscure gift card company’s data. Given that there isn’t nearly as many gift card providers that have the option of paying with Monero, I would expect it to be over represented with the few that do.

[MeGold666]

Either way, there isn’t much to extrapolate from an obscure gift card company’s data. Given that there isn’t nearly as many gift card providers that have the option of paying with Monero, I would expect it to be over represented with the few that do.

Not cherry-picking, just couldn't find latest data so thanks for correction.

But it's not only CoinCards that reported Monero on the rise, ShopinBit (Europe's biggest Bitcoin store) - currently Bitcoin is used more often but for few months it was Monero:

https://x.com/shopinbit/status/1912191172740821189

It's nice to see Bitcoin being used as it's supposed to be used - as Digital Cash and not as a pokemon cards that are hold forever in their original plastic foil