McDonald's Bitcoin payment at El Salvador are broken, users complain

[Accardo]

This has been a persisting trouble and users on X (formerly Twitter) complained bitterly that they were not able to pay using bitcoin on McDonald's Bitcoin powered payment process at El Salvador. Not sure if the report sent out to Open node about this error have been resolved or a note sent out to the users regarding such a dispute.

Amongst the multiple users who complained, Zeus and Leo Weese, (members of Twitter cryptocurrency community) share this on their page. The problem here is that when you try paying, the screen that's meant to display the invoice would freeze. However, after a while "Zeus" managed to scan the screen after it flashed for a nano second. The other user paid using the counter.

What could have been the cause to this issue?





Above is actually the invoice supposed to be that of ZEUS which he luckily scanned and paid.

Link to post: https://x.com/LeoAW/status/1794463761010729132?t=SSCajImRqyv5e_1_3iH5tQ&s=19

Note: it's not a fresh news, as the tweet is dated back to 25 and 26 May. Thanks for reading.

[Helena Yu]

Another reason why Bitcoin isn't the best choice to be used as a currency.

The company don't want loss, so they don't want the price of their product/service equivalent in Bitcoin, they use payment processor to convert fiat price in Bitcoin.

On the other hand, customer want convenience and fast payment, they don't want to wait for few minutes if they have an another straightforward payment option.

What could have been the cause to this issue?

If you read the tweet, it's due to OpenNode i.e. payment processor.

[Davidvictorson]

I think this is the first time that this is being reported since they started to accept bitcoin. It is nothing wrong with bitcoin but the company processing it. I don't it is cause for alarm or any panic so long as users didn't lose their funds and there is no repeat of it. If there is a recurrence they could either change the payment processor or totally abandon crypto payment. I think the latter may be detrimental to the growth of the business. They may lose customers and then revenue. It would be wise if they can anticipate these issues before it happens so they they lose to their competition.

[Catenaccio]

It can be technical issues and will be fixed. Users certainly feel panic with things, issues relate to their money and if I am in that situation, I would be panic too.

Bitcoin ATM or centralized exchanges can use services from payment processors and sometimes there are technical problems. These companies can have their ways to check problems, and identify payments from users and re proceed manually for users who got problems. They can get data from their machines and with support of camera records maybe.

[franky1]

can people stop saying things about bitcoin when its actually things going wrong with software related to lightning

lightning is a totally different network. the hint is in the N of LN

[stompix]

What could have been the cause to this issue?

1. Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System
2. Mcdonald's machine with OpenNode as a 3rd party payment processor

See the issue? 

The other user paid using the counter.

Using a centralized system again, another issue!

[redsun114]

It can be technical issues and will be fixed. Users certainly feel panic with things, issues relate to their money and if I am in that situation, I would be panic too.

Bitcoin ATM or centralized exchanges can use services from payment processors and sometimes there are technical problems. These companies can have their ways to check problems, and identify payments from users and re proceed manually for users who got problems. They can get data from their machines and with support of camera records maybe.

That is for sure because they are not new in this game anymore, so/and I'm sure that this isn't only/also the first time that they have experienced such an issue. They will do their best to fix it because if not, then they can lose a good number of customers. Money is hard to find, so I won't blame them if they will panic immediately but they should also realize that it can't help anything.

The best thing to do when this situation arises is to calm down and wait. If machine data's are not enough, indeed that they may need the help of the cameras. Almost all establishments now has it and it's very useful for different situations including this one here.

[franky1]

el salvador had issues with LN in its first try a few years ago

many businesses/services and chivo moved away from LN as the back bone and instead used a CEX to bank peoples btc deposits and do internal database swaps of peoples balance on that cex(alphapoint) as the backbone of chivo

however certain entities are trying again to push for LN routed payments outside of the chivo system and again getting hit by the same bottlenecks as last time

both cases of el salv crypt payment failures are LN based, where the channel partners of LN whom host the 'inbound balance' and routing paths end up having too many payment events routing through but not enough locked balance to finalise/fulfill payment events

so again LN is not fit for purpose and they just wont learn
but to hide the fact that LN is crap they arrogantly buzzword the fault as a 'bitcoin break' even when users having faults never even use the bitcoin network, but instead using the LN network

[OgNasty]

The Lightning network was a DOA idea that stripped users of the precious things Bitcoin has to offer. Obviously it was a massive failure in El Salvador where in the heart of Bitcoin support in the world users are overwhelmingly paying using USDT on the Tron network instead of Bitcoin. The problem is there and the folks leading are sending us down a dead end.

[MeGold666]

The Lightning network was a DOA idea that stripped users of the precious things Bitcoin has to offer. Obviously it was a massive failure in El Salvador where in the heart of Bitcoin support in the world users are overwhelmingly paying using USDT on the Tron network instead of Bitcoin. The problem is there and the folks leading are sending us down a dead end.

Second layer "solutions"... we need scalability on the base layer.
If we're not using Bitcoin (LN is not BTC but a convulsed receipt network) then we could as well use Mastercard.

[franky1]

The Lightning network was a DOA idea that stripped users of the precious things Bitcoin has to offer. Obviously it was a massive failure in El Salvador where in the heart of Bitcoin support in the world users are overwhelmingly paying using USDT on the Tron network instead of Bitcoin. The problem is there and the folks leading are sending us down a dead end.

Second layer "solutions"... we need scalability on the base layer.
If we're not using Bitcoin (LN is not BTC but a convulsed receipt network) then we could as well use Mastercard.

my view is there will be (in the future) a niche for SOME utility via subnetworks.. not a sole subnetwork everyone needs to be pushed to but different subnetwrks for different purposes..however we have for 7 years gone through an era where developers have stalled/delayed/avoided bitcoin scaling. and infact done things to bitcoin to cause it to be more of a headache purely to promote LN as the sole solution everyone should move to, pretending/false promoting LN as something that can and would serve and meet everyones needs to not need to use the bitcoin network directly

i call that era the literal "segregation" /apartheid era.. trying to displace natives(legacies) to no longer feel their home is theirs and they have to move to a new community of empty promises and such

LN is about unsettled balance being agreed on (IOU) so it is a credit/debt system of borrowing routers balance to pass the parcel of value and then settling up later... which is another economic failure of the LN model

in future there will be new subnetworks of different design/economic model for niche usage, but concentration needs to return to scaling bitcoin and fixing the changes done since 2017 that has caused more problems on the bitcoin network(done just to promote the push to LN by diminishing bitcoins utility)

 

[PrivacyG]

Another reason why Bitcoin isn't the best choice to be used as a currency.

The company don't want loss, so they don't want the price of their product/service equivalent in Bitcoin, they use payment processor to convert fiat price in Bitcoin.

On the other hand, customer want convenience and fast payment, they don't want to wait for few minutes if they have an another straightforward payment option.

Bitcoin can still be a great alternative for people who would not be bothered to wait a few minutes for a Transaction to finish.  I think Bitcoin is still a community thing.  Where you, as a Business, support Bitcoin and decide to offer an option for other people like you who like Bitcoin too.  It is definitely not as reliable as Visa or Master Card for usual day to day Transactions, but then Cards have their own caveats too.

Bitcoin users who decide to pay at a fast food are very naive if they think Bitcoin is as fast and reliable as Visa to use and offers the same comfort level.  You get what you get, Bitcoin is so much more raw and offers a less comfortable but much more controllable option to Payments.

My opinion however.  Feel free to contradict.

[Assface16678]

Well, we can expect more of this, and it is common because El Salvador is just discovering and, step by step, implementing bitcoin in every transaction, so there's still possible errors, and those are things that need to be fixed and considered in order to make the experience and implementation of bitcoin more smoothly. It is also expected that there will be some errors that might occur because El Salvador implements bitcoin without proper thinking or planning, so we can expect that some people might complain, and for sure, some of them will not use bitcoin transactions as it will be an inconvenience for them. But I think this issue should be fixed by its people or who manages it, because if not, then bitcoin implementation in their country might not be successful. And it depends on that country if other countries will also adopt or implement bitcoin, because they are the first implementors of bitcoin in their systems.

[livingfree]

Most of the McDonald's kiosk machines are like that with my experience. I guess that even if the country where that McDonald's branch is in if their kiosks are like, I'd really choose to pay with the cashier and counter instead.

Nothing beats that bad system in McDonald's or at least that's with my experience because several times I did want to pay using their typical payment processors and they're mostly in errors so I have to pay in cash.

Well, we can expect more of this, and it is common because El Salvador is just discovering and, step by step, implementing bitcoin in every transaction, so there's still possible errors

I agree, from these problems, there will be more and more solutions to fix it.

[GreatArkansas]

Another reason why Bitcoin isn't the best choice to be used as a currency.

The company don't want loss, so they don't want the price of their product/service equivalent in Bitcoin, they use payment processor to convert fiat price in Bitcoin.

On the other hand, customer want convenience and fast payment, they don't want to wait for few minutes if they have an another straightforward payment option.
(...)

Payment processor providers solve this kind of problem for businesses like McDonalds, as it told since it is a problem for the payment processor itself, then it's really ruined, the essence of accepting Bitcoin as payment is ruined because the bridge that connects from consumer to the producer is broken, it just sad because the blame for some people will lead to Bitcoin itself, especially that those who really not understand how it works.

[franky1]

Another reason why Bitcoin isn't the best choice to be used as a currency.

The company don't want loss, so they don't want the price of their product/service equivalent in Bitcoin, they use payment processor to convert fiat price in Bitcoin.

On the other hand, customer want convenience and fast payment, they don't want to wait for few minutes if they have an another straightforward payment option.

Bitcoin can still be a great alternative for people who would not be bothered to wait a few minutes for a Transaction to finish.  I think Bitcoin is still a community thing.  Where you, as a Business, support Bitcoin and decide to offer an option for other people like you who like Bitcoin too.  It is definitely not as reliable as Visa or Master Card for usual day to day Transactions, but then Cards have their own caveats too.

Bitcoin users who decide to pay at a fast food are very naive if they think Bitcoin is as fast and reliable as Visa to use and offers the same comfort level.  You get what you get, Bitcoin is so much more raw and offers a less comfortable but much more controllable option to Payments.

My opinion however.  Feel free to contradict.

bitcoin for small amounts was deemed ok for small amounts pre 2017. due to how a $3 burger was not worth re-orging a blockchain, however with things added to bitcoin like RBF it made bitcoin near impossible for recipients to want to accept zero confirm's because now tx's can be dropped, rejected via the sender redirecting value to different addresses via RBF whilst transactions are waiting.. this was the way that LN became promoted as the zeroconfirm payment method. then the way bitcoin devs changed the fee estimate and bump fee defaults were done to make small payments to become more costly than a mcdonalds burger, again done to promote LN

the whole premise of manipulating bitcoin so that people have to pay more with the delusion that it helps miners, was another mis judgement by devs pretending they were economics experts(their not), devs dont realise the CEX market price is what rewards mining pools via deflation. also whereby more transactions per block would create more revenue for miningpools as a total of the block reward bonus.

now we have it where people need to lock in value to a dodgy subnetwork and do it over multiple lumps(channels) for the HOPE(not100% success rate) that a payment will go through on the subnetwork.. thats even worse of an experience or strategy compared to people deciding to buy a giftcard for a value amount equivelant to a months worth of meals

[The Sceptical Chymist]

It is nothing wrong with bitcoin but the company processing it.

Even if machines like this or the payment processors behind them didn't malfunction, bitcoin would still be an absolutely lousy way to pay for fast food or any in-and-out kind of service that has to be paid for quickly.  If anyone can make a cogent argument as to why that's not true, please feel free to do so because I've never heard one before (though that's kind of off-topic here).

This "news" is nearly at the level of 'ATM at local Walgreens isn't working!'.  In other words, it's not really news.  Hell, it isn't even big news these days when a new merchant starts accepting bitcoin like it used to be a few years ago.  People just don't like spending it when they might make a profit by holding it and using fiat instead.

[nutildah]

Agreed. That's why McDonald's should accept Dogecoin as a kiosk option (still to slow for an at-the-counter option).

McDonald's could seriously help their branding by accepting $DOGE.

As for El Salvador, its a shame their populist president got conned by some Twitter influencers for the sake of pumping Bitcoin... An unfortunate situation. But at least they are providing lessons that LN-friendly businesses/payment processors can learn from.

[OcTradism]

Even if machines like this or the payment processors behind them didn't malfunction, bitcoin would still be an absolutely lousy way to pay for fast food or any in-and-out kind of service that has to be paid for quickly.  If anyone can make a cogent argument as to why that's not true, please feel free to do so because I've never heard one before (though that's kind of off-topic here).

For payments that need to be done quickly and with small value, Bitcoin on chain transactions are not solutions. Bitcoin Lightning Network off chain transactions are solutions, faster and cheaper in transaction fee. It can meet demand on time, cheap fee and relevant for small transactions like purchases things at McDonald stores.

I did not see information for Lightning Network in these photos and above discussions so McDonald kiosk only accept Bitcoin on chain transactions, not Lightning Network off chain transactions.

They began the adoption since 2022.
https://cointelegraph.com/news/mcdonald-s-starts-to-accept-bitcoin-and-tether-in-swiss-town

[pooya87]

The Lightning network was a DOA idea that stripped users of the precious things Bitcoin has to offer. Obviously it was a massive failure in El Salvador where in the heart of Bitcoin support in the world users are overwhelmingly paying using USDT on the Tron network instead of Bitcoin. The problem is there and the folks leading are sending us down a dead end.

FYI a much larger overwhelming number of people are using other centralized payment systems such as PayPal to make their payments that usage of centralized shittokens like tether is negligible in comparison.