Is taxation theft?

[jaberwock]

I love the first line point, but the subsequent ones are not without some errors as far as I am concerned. Fine, it's ugly behaviour for the government not to use the national wealth of the nation rightly but this can't be related to the tax itself but the bad behaviour of the government. So, it is the government you should call theives and not the context "tax" in all considerations.

Taxes and other government revenues means are the main sustenance of the nation, I wonder how the nation will look like if the government can't fulfil its local and international obligations for the shortage of money, they have to make people contribute. Some countries are so disadvantaged to the point that they do not have much lands and natural resourses, so if their government did not collect tax, what will the security, education and healthcare system be like, not to mention others.

First of all, there are some nations which are so poor that they can't even join some summits, we have seen plenty of poor nations and we know how that goes. Secondly, nobody says we shouldn't pay ANY taxes, the idea is what if we are paying way more than we should? Lets be honest and realize some of the taxes that we pay, gets lost along the way.

This doesn't have to be pocketed directly by politicians, they could for example hire their brother in law to build a bridge, the bridge costs the brother in law to build 100 million, but they charge a billion to the government, when they could have profited with 200. See how theft happens? The citizens of a nation should be able to ask where their money goes and if there is too many corrupt officials who do this. So thinking, if 50% of our money goes to corruption, then we could literally pay half of the taxes we are paying and get the same type of government if nobody was corrupt, seems like a good idea isn't it?

[Oluwa-btc]

Taxing gains from cryptocurrencies is extreme to me too and I agree that it crosses the line. In that case, we can say that they're overstepping. The fact that they're in charge of the citizens of their country doesn't mean the citizens should have no power over themselves. They should have a right to privacy.

I agree to that, taxes should be with understanding between the two parties but in most cases I think it's not cause what the government do is make decisions that they can't carry on anytime soon leaving the masses in dilusion and be left with paying up taxes on specific basis, meanwhile the reasons why the taxes are allocated are not being exercised which is bad and with this I think it's theft on the higher notes cause what's to be done with the tax allocations are not done and in most cases taxes are not being notified to the users .

[uneng]

This doesn't have to be pocketed directly by politicians, they could for example hire their brother in law to build a bridge, the bridge costs the brother in law to build 100 million, but they charge a billion to the government, when they could have profited with 200. See how theft happens? The citizens of a nation should be able to ask where their money goes and if there is too many corrupt officials who do this. So thinking, if 50% of our money goes to corruption, then we could literally pay half of the taxes we are paying and get the same type of government if nobody was corrupt, seems like a good idea isn't it?

That is the reason why I consider taxation theft. I would be in agreement if the money was going entirely to pay for the costs of infrastructure and public services, but that is not what happens for real. And taxation is constantly being raised, because the government doesn't stop creating new job spots for the "friends of the king" and raising their wages, besides them being greedy corrupt individuals who want bigger slices of the cake each new day through the method you mentioned above.

They simply don't care if the average citizen is able to thrive along his life. So I conclude we are by ourselves, and in order to improve our life quality during our existence in this world, we have to avoid paying most tributes as possible to the government. Otherwise, we are going to live only to maintain the system, like a slave. I think it is not fair to live like that, even though they say to the population the fairest thing to do is to pay all the tributes they are demanding.

[qurbanshah02]

I love the first line point, but the subsequent ones are not without some errors as far as I am concerned. Fine, it's ugly behaviour for the government not to use the national wealth of the nation rightly but this can't be related to the tax itself but the bad behaviour of the government. So, it is the government you should call theives and not the context "tax" in all considerations.

Taxes and other government revenues means are the main sustenance of the nation, I wonder how the nation will look like if the government can't fulfil its local and international obligations for the shortage of money, they have to make people contribute. Some countries are so disadvantaged to the point that they do not have much lands and natural resourses, so if their government did not collect tax, what will the security, education and healthcare system be like, not to mention others.

First of all, there are some nations which are so poor that they can't even join some summits, we have seen plenty of poor nations and we know how that goes. Secondly, nobody says we shouldn't pay ANY taxes, the idea is what if we are paying way more than we should? Lets be honest and realize some of the taxes that we pay, gets lost along the way.

This doesn't have to be pocketed directly by politicians, they could for example hire their brother in law to build a bridge, the bridge costs the brother in law to build 100 million, but they charge a billion to the government, when they could have profited with 200. See how theft happens? The citizens of a nation should be able to ask where their money goes and if there is too many corrupt officials who do this. So thinking, if 50% of our money goes to corruption, then we could literally pay half of the taxes we are paying and get the same type of government if nobody was corrupt, seems like a good idea isn't it?

If you see, where this life started, it also started from poverty.  If someone is poor, he should try to become rich.Many countries have poverty but they cannot develop.  But the countries that are good and rich also have poverty, but there the rulers do not eliminate this poverty.  Why so?The countries that are rich should remove the poverty of the poor country while being humane.No, this is wrong, why forget them? We pay taxes so that the government treats us well and fixes what is wrong in this country.Who builds roads in the country with their own money, these are things that the country has to lend, they give it through people's money, which is called tax today.I am not happy with such a government nor do I support them.  Because I call them carpets, they cheat the country because they treat poor people's money as their own money.

[YOSHIE]

Is taxation theft?

If you are talking about taxes, if taxes have to be called theft, I have to support the philosophy which states that this is true and is also based on the view of taxes as an offense committed by individuals who violate the principle of non-aggression, I dare say that taxes are immoral and taxes are levies that are considered radical.

In my opinion, the phrase taxation can be said to be theft, now try to compare several cases regarding taxation, if the government carries out 'tax collection' here it is clear that money is being taken from the government towards its citizens and every citizen must pay if they are not agentsthe secret will come and catch you lock you up in a cage, Is that not theft, clearly it is theft, you buy a car with your own money, build a house with your own money, the taxes are taken without permission, because taxation is theoretically legalized by the government which is actually illegal, but because the government levies it, it becomes legal, in fact it is theft. 

I would say it's theft and yes.

[EFS]

Tax is the main source of revenue for the state. To call tax theft is in fact to reject the state. Here one can enter into a philosophical debate about what the state is and whether it is necessary. This has been debated for thousands of years.
Whether we like it or not, we live in a system where states exist and collect taxes. What we can do about this is to support parties that claim to collect less taxes in elections and avoid taxes as much as possible. Because I don't think we will live long enough to see this system radically changed.

[Akbarkoe]

Tax is the main source of revenue for the state. To call tax theft is in fact to reject the state. Here one can enter into a philosophical debate about what the state is and whether it is necessary. This has been debated for thousands of years.
Whether we like it or not, we live in a system where states exist and collect taxes. What we can do about this is to support parties that claim to collect less taxes in elections and avoid taxes as much as possible. Because I don't think we will live long enough to see this system radically changed.

Taxes will not be said to be open theft if the tax results are returned for the benefit of the community, economic development, infrastructure development and others for state development, but the tax will be considered as theft if the government is to enrich themselves.

[DrBeer]

Morals talking time.

Surely a matter of topic that has concerned many philosophers and intellectuals. I imagine most of (genuine) Bitcoiners be like "back-to-the-landers", libertarians, with desire to be self-sufficient. However, objectively speaking, taxation is theft. It's taking someone's property without their consent, and it is compulsory. It very much fits the definition of theft, even though you can find it slightly altered in other sources, like the Cambridge dictionary ("the crime of illegally taking something that belongs to someone else")

(That's right dear reader, that was a clickbait!)

The question is rather: Is taxation justifiable theft? A necessary evil? Libertarians tend to argue that it's wrong regardless the intentions. Taking someone's property without their permission is unethical, no matter how good you want to do with it. Others, who support social contract theory, argue that it's necessary and should be seen as "voluntary obligation".

There is no right or wrong answer (un)fortunately. Feel free to speak out loud.


My stance on this is that both "groups" bring some compelling arguments on the table, in favor of their ideology. I don't know. I think there's a place where we draw the line. For example, nowadays, I think we've crossed that line (towards more government of course). I don't think we need that much government into the markets.

I also feel really stupid when I see politicians talking about taxing gains from cryptocurrencies, with phrases like "unhosted wallets", or by attacking privacy services. They talk as if privacy invasion is a requirement, or "obligation" as per the social contract theory. I think this really crosses the line.

That's a very misguided opinion.
Probably under the feudal system (although even here I am not sure), taxes were taken solely to replenish the treasury of the ruler, and the realization of his fantasies, but in the modern developed world - taxes are the only means of the state to ensure the rights of citizens - from security to social benefits. I think everyone expects medical care, police work, pensions, etc. ? And with what money should the state provide it? It is at the expense of taxes that it is done!

[EarnOnVictor]

I love the first line point, but the subsequent ones are not without some errors as far as I am concerned. Fine, it's ugly behaviour for the government not to use the national wealth of the nation rightly but this can't be related to the tax itself but the bad behaviour of the government. So, it is the government you should call theives and not the context "tax" in all considerations.

Taxes and other government revenues means are the main sustenance of the nation, I wonder how the nation will look like if the government can't fulfil its local and international obligations for the shortage of money, they have to make people contribute. Some countries are so disadvantaged to the point that they do not have much lands and natural resourses, so if their government did not collect tax, what will the security, education and healthcare system be like, not to mention others.

First of all, there are some nations which are so poor that they can't even join some summits, we have seen plenty of poor nations and we know how that goes. Secondly, nobody says we shouldn't pay ANY taxes, the idea is what if we are paying way more than we should? Lets be honest and realize some of the taxes that we pay, gets lost along the way.

Poverty is not an excuse not to pay taxes, it's measured according to what you earn. So if you are poor, you may pay meagre taxes as well, so it's proportionate, we shouldn't find an excuse for not paying taxes. However, if the people believe the government is over-taxing them, then they can fight for their rights, we see it in countries of the world. But the government still win some and the people win the others. Some governments are so corrupt and irresponsible, nothing positive will happen if the people do not stand their ground.

This doesn't have to be pocketed directly by politicians, they could for example hire their brother in law to build a bridge, the bridge costs the brother in law to build 100 million, but they charge a billion to the government, when they could have profited with 200. See how theft happens? The citizens of a nation should be able to ask where their money goes and if there is too many corrupt officials who do this. So thinking, if 50% of our money goes to corruption, then we could literally pay half of the taxes we are paying and get the same type of government if nobody was corrupt, seems like a good idea isn't it?

This is a distraction, my friend, it doesn't prove any reason why we should not pay taxes. Your country's government might be so bad and corrupt, that is just selective, but the context of tax is the main discussion here and not how good or bad your leaders are. Having a majority of bad leaders does not happen in every country, people see the benefits of paying taxes and the government must fulfil their obligations.

[batang_bitcoin]

I'm in the middle of it, I envy those folks that are living in the countries that don't have taxation with crypto gains because it should be. But at the same time, the obligation of being a citizen as you understand it is needed to support the programs that the government is doing and one of it is health care and education. And it's discouraging to see that public serving becomes a huge business and when an official suddenly is able to buy all of those luxuries, cars, real properties, you can't teach your mind not to think bad about them and how they're able to obtain that just after sitting on office. Politics and public service should be an honest space overall with people that have integrity and people won't think about evading taxes.

[Baki202]

I agree to that, taxes should be with understanding between the two parties but in most cases I think it's not cause what the government do is make decisions that they can't carry on anytime soon leaving the masses in dilusion and be left with paying up taxes on specific basis, meanwhile the reasons why the taxes are allocated are not being exercised which is bad and with this I think it's theft on the higher notes cause what's to be done with the tax allocations are not done and in most cases taxes are not being notified to the users .

We would not call it theft because their is no country thay they don't pay tax it's a means of generating revenue and the government needs it to run the affairs of of the country and the government makes good money from taxes, this something that everyone is aware of that the government must tax so it's not somthing to even argue about, just that the reason for taxation is for making the life's of their people okay, they are now doing it to enrich them selfs, and people are facing more challenges because the tax was supposed to be paid and made everything easy. And that is one of the reasons that people think tax is theft because they are not even doing the right thing with the money.

A lot of people are disappointed in the government because of the nature of mismanagement of funds and they even spend money on things that are not important and claim they spend a huge amount of money deceiving their selfs thinking they are deceiving people because people are watching them and the moment people will get tired that is when people will take action on the government.

[Xcode7]

We would not call it theft because their is no country thay they don't pay tax it's a means of generating revenue and the government needs it to run the affairs of of the country and the government makes good money from taxes, this something that everyone is aware of that the government must tax so it's not somthing to even argue about, just that the reason for taxation is for making the life's of their people okay, they are now doing it to enrich them selfs, and people are facing more challenges because the tax was supposed to be paid and made everything easy. And that is one of the reasons that people think tax is theft because they are not even doing the right thing with the money.

A lot of people are disappointed in the government because of the nature of mismanagement of funds and they even spend money on things that are not important and claim they spend a huge amount of money deceiving their selfs thinking they are deceiving people because people are watching them and the moment people will get tired that is when people will take action on the government.

It is true that the taxes generated are of course to be used to run the government system and also public services and if the government cannot use the results of taxes properly and they also do not think about the interests of the people of course this will make the public lose trust in the government so that it is not uncommon for us to see some people will avoid paying taxes because they will feel disadvantaged by the actions of the government who only think about themselves. If most people are very fed up with what the government is doing, of course they can take actions that could be detrimental to society and also the government and this certainly cannot be avoided because the public is very fed up with the management of tax funds by the government.

[Fortify]

Morals talking time.

Surely a matter of topic that has concerned many philosophers and intellectuals. I imagine most of (genuine) Bitcoiners be like "back-to-the-landers", libertarians, with desire to be self-sufficient. However, objectively speaking, taxation is theft. It's taking someone's property without their consent, and it is compulsory. It very much fits the definition of theft, even though you can find it slightly altered in other sources, like the Cambridge dictionary ("the crime of illegally taking something that belongs to someone else")

(That's right dear reader, that was a clickbait!)

The question is rather: Is taxation justifiable theft? A necessary evil? Libertarians tend to argue that it's wrong regardless the intentions. Taking someone's property without their permission is unethical, no matter how good you want to do with it. Others, who support social contract theory, argue that it's necessary and should be seen as "voluntary obligation".

There is no right or wrong answer (un)fortunately. Feel free to speak out loud.


My stance on this is that both "groups" bring some compelling arguments on the table, in favor of their ideology. I don't know. I think there's a place where we draw the line. For example, nowadays, I think we've crossed that line (towards more government of course). I don't think we need that much government into the markets.

I also feel really stupid when I see politicians talking about taxing gains from cryptocurrencies, with phrases like "unhosted wallets", or by attacking privacy services. They talk as if privacy invasion is a requirement, or "obligation" as per the social contract theory. I think this really crosses the line.

All that you might consider the greatest and most prosperous countries in the world have accepted the simple reality that taxes are necessary. In order for a country to stay independent and free to make it's own choices, it requires a military that can project power - these militaries, as long as they are properly controlled, require funding from the central government which is partly funded by taxes. In order to do many things, like customs checks, food healthchecks and countless other hidden benefits, you require some form of taxation and enforcement because it takes very little time for disorder to set in, where business owners will undermine rules for their own personal benefit if they can get away with it, to the detriment of everyone else.

[Justbillywitt]

Let's see it this way that without us paying tax, we might not get the society we dream of living. Let's assume that if the taxes are not taken then how do we expect the government to provides social amenities? Since evebody want's to live in a conducive environment, and for us to achieve that, we agreed that we will contribute to the in the form of tax from the government. So I don't see tax as theft, rather as willing contribution. because we are aware that this is our part to get an improved standard of living. So I don't see tax as theft.

[beerlover]

All that you might consider the greatest and most prosperous countries in the world have accepted the simple reality that taxes are necessary. In order for a country to stay independent and free to make it's own choices, it requires a military that can project power - these militaries, as long as they are properly controlled, require funding from the central government which is partly funded by taxes. In order to do many things, like customs checks, food healthchecks and countless other hidden benefits, you require some form of taxation and enforcement because it takes very little time for disorder to set in, where business owners will undermine rules for their own personal benefit if they can get away with it, to the detriment of everyone else.

That is something inevitable and there is nobody that is saying that there should be zero taxes when things are going great, the problem is not that tax exist but the problem is how it is used as well.

I believe that we are going to end up with nothing going on at the same time and we should be considering the situation very badly because we are getting taxes and we are dealing with something that is getting a terrible result and we can't be really considering the situation and we are going to end up with a terrible result if we are going to be an issue.

I understand what we are going to see this situation to be a big one and we are going to end up with a lot more trouble if we are dealing with anything worse than what we already have. Think about how many corrupt politicians are getting our money, this is the problem and when that happens we simply just don't want to pay taxes because we don't want our money to go into politicians pockets.

[Jaycoinz]

In every advanced country the government demand for taxes to develop the country or give back something meaningful to it's citizens. In a country like Nigeria I would say taxation is actually theft because the government are not doing anything meaningful with the resources they are getting from people. If people are paying taxes there should be good roads and proper medical facilities In the country. This is also part of the money that those in power embezzle. Paying taxes is actually a good thing that every business or organization should be involved in.

[AmoreJaz]

In every advanced country the government demand for taxes to develop the country or give back something meaningful to it's citizens. In a country like Nigeria I would say taxation is actually theft because the government are not doing anything meaningful with the resources they are getting from people. If people are paying taxes there should be good roads and proper medical facilities In the country. This is also part of the money that those in power embezzle. Paying taxes is actually a good thing that every business or organization should be involved in.

The common issue is corruption in every country. However, the degree of corruption varies from one country to another. This is why some of these advanced countries are progressive because they are really allocating the taxes collected to improve the living conditions of their constituents.

Below are top 3 less corrupt countries, and you will understand why these nations are very progressive ones. Corruption is the major reason why the government is having hard time moving forward when it comes to implementing their developmental projects.


https://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/corruption.htm

Now, if the government officials will course thru their taxes to appropriate developmental projects, I highly believe that they can truly improve the economic status of their country in general.

[MarjorieZimmermanGinger]

The question is rather: Is taxation justifiable theft? A necessary evil? Libertarians tend to argue that it's wrong regardless the intentions. Taking someone's property without their permission is unethical, no matter how good you want to do with it. Others, who support social contract theory, argue that it's necessary and should be seen as "voluntary obligation".

There is no right or wrong answer (un)fortunately. Feel free to speak out loud.

If it is called theft and crime, doesn't the government make regulations about taxation? Legitimate taxation is carried out by the government through related agencies and they announce the amount imposed on each person. The analogy of taking property without permission is a different perspective because it is impossible for the government to take other people's property arbitrarily if it does not commit an unlawful mistake. Thus the assumption that it is theft or a crime can be refuted on the grounds that they impose taxes based on applicable regulations.

Most people do not agree with the pattern that is carried out because there may be differences based on perspective, but if taxes are regulated in regulations, we cannot say that it is a crime or theft. I support the way of thinking of people who are realistic and those who voice the public interest, but to what extent are we able to defend it when it comes to final laws.

[EarnOnVictor]

Taxing gains from cryptocurrencies is extreme to me too and I agree that it crosses the line. In that case, we can say that they're overstepping. The fact that they're in charge of the citizens of their country doesn't mean the citizens should have no power over themselves. They should have a right to privacy.

I agree to that, taxes should be with understanding between the two parties but in most cases I think it's not cause what the government do is make decisions that they can't carry on anytime soon leaving the masses in dilusion and be left with paying up taxes on specific basis, meanwhile the reasons why the taxes are allocated are not being exercised which is bad and with this I think it's theft on the higher notes cause what's to be done with the tax allocations are not done and in most cases taxes are not being notified to the users .

Ah! I'm surprised you agree that taxes should be agreed to by two parties, this is not a market bargain, if you allow people to dictate to the government, taxes paid will be unreasonable. If the rich people are doing all within their reach to evade the taxes, what do you think the commoners would do if they had the opportunity? People will always want all the money to be sincere and I do not think it can move any country forward especially if they do not have natural resources that the government can depend mostly on. The only bad side to this is for the government to collect taxes and not be accountable for it. Most governments are just corrupt and irresponsible, but this is a different ballgame from the context of the tax payment itself.

[cocadalcan]

Tax is the main source of revenue for the state. To call tax theft is in fact to reject the state. Here one can enter into a philosophical debate about what the state is and whether it is necessary. This has been debated for thousands of years.
Whether we like it or not, we live in a system where states exist and collect taxes. What we can do about this is to support parties that claim to collect less taxes in elections and avoid taxes as much as possible. Because I don't think we will live long enough to see this system radically changed.

Taxes will not be said to be open theft if the tax results are returned for the benefit of the community, economic development, infrastructure development and others for state development, but the tax will be considered as theft if the government is to enrich themselves.

It is publicly owed by the government to every citizen and institution. Everyone should be accountable to the state. It is a right to have civil security and a duty to pay taxes as a citizen.