Is taxation theft?

[arwin100]

Let's see it this way that without us paying tax, we might not get the society we dream of living. Let's assume that if the taxes are not taken then how do we expect the government to provides social amenities? Since evebody want's to live in a conducive environment, and for us to achieve that, we agreed that we will contribute to the in the form of tax from the government. So I don't see tax as theft, rather as willing contribution. because we are aware that this is our part to get an improved standard of living. So I don't see tax as theft.

This situation really varies on the status of the country where you are since if to many bad things happened there and politicians is not trusted to handle their position since they are professional criminals then we can really assume that theft is taxation.

But if the government is using the funds they collected from our taxes and they are transparent of everything then give us good healthcare then I don't think we can call taxation is theft. Although situation really vary to each country since not all politicians look forward for the welfare of their people. Since lots of them just want to corrupt and earn lots of money from people who supports them.

[Cookdata]

Let's see it this way that without us paying tax, we might not get the society we dream of living. Let's assume that if the taxes are not taken then how do we expect the government to provides social amenities? Since evebody want's to live in a conducive environment, and for us to achieve that, we agreed that we will contribute to the in the form of tax from the government. So I don't see tax as theft, rather as willing contribution. because we are aware that this is our part to get an improved standard of living. So I don't see tax as theft.

The ones that are been payed, how many are actually used to build the society? This is currently what the United state citizens are fighting because the taxes they paid are been used to fund Ukraine and Russia war and many unhealthy things that doesn't benefits their economy. If indeed taxation is been handled as the way states and federal makes money through state are been deploy accurately back to the society, there is going to be a too standard states across many countries but they don't

It's from tax money politicians loot money, it's from tax money you see misappropriation of funds for projects that are not needed or they do project and abandoned. It's from tax payers money they fund the offices of the politicians all the way form local government to the state. Anything you can think of it, it's from tax and that's the only thing the government understands, you will never see them reduced the percentage, it's always reforming to increase taxes to milk citizens.

[Argoo]

The ones that are been payed, how many are actually used to build the society? This is currently what the United state citizens are fighting because the taxes they paid are been used to fund Ukraine and Russia war and many unhealthy things that doesn't benefits their economy. If indeed taxation is been handled as the way states and federal makes money through state are been deploy accurately back to the society, there is going to be a too standard states across many countries but they don't

Only short-sighted people can say that US citizens are currently financing the war that is going on between Russia and Ukraine. The US government is helping Ukraine defend itself from a military invasion by Russian troops. If Ukraine falls, Russia's next targets for attack will be Poland or the Baltic countries - Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia. These countries are also actively helping Ukraine because they have seen that in this case they themselves will have to fight Russia. Therefore, they are happy to transfer some of their weapons to Ukraine, just to avoid a direct attack on them by Putin's Russia.

The US government has announced that it will provide military and financial assistance to Ukraine in the amount of 60 billion dollars. But part of this amount, approximately 29 billion dollars, goes to finance their own military-industrial complex. This means that additional jobs will be created, and military-industrial complex factories will receive large government orders for their products. Since the Russian-Ukrainian war has shown the weakness and imperfection of Russian military equipment, US military factories will work in three shifts for many years to come, bringing the US huge profits.

NATO countries are now, in fact, using the hands of the Ukrainians, significantly weakening their main potential enemy - Russia, and their own soldiers are not dying in this war.

[Ishicryptic]

The question is rather: Is taxation justifiable theft? A necessary evil? Libertarians tend to argue that it's wrong regardless the intentions. Taking someone's property without their permission is unethical, no matter how good you want to do with it. Others, who support social contract theory, argue that it's necessary and should be seen as "voluntary obligation".

I think that taxation is a necessary evil, it might look like the authority or government is reaping people off from their earnings but without tax it will be difficult to run a government. If the revenue that is collected from taxation are put into good use them it is worth collecting. There are jobs in the society that are very essential but doesn't generate income by themselves, like the armed forces, provision of basic amenities like good roads and having emergency funds. If taxes are not collected to fund these important aspects that I've mentioned, it will be very difficult for a society to function well.

A business person and someone that is rendering services and being paid, either as salary or profit, if you look at it critically, the profit and salary can somehow be likened to taxing the employer and customers. Any money that you earn to better your life and that of your family is almost the same as the taxation that governments collect to run the economy.

[Cossyblack]

First of all,we need to understand what thief/stealing means. Thief/stealing means "To Take without right or permission.Every country have  laws and order of doing things and whatever is not prohibited by law cannot be seen as stealing. Taxation is not illegal or prohibited by any Country law rather it is the right/duty of the government to collect money from all citizens for public services. Public services like building schools,roads,provide stable electricity and security to betterment the lives of the citizens.

Government doesn't need  permission to impose tax on her citizens it is their right as it is been back by law. Infact it your right as a citizen to pay your taxes and it is illegal if you refuse because it is so unlawful not to pay tax

Thinking that Taxation is a thief means you either don't understand/comprehend what tax are.

So Taxation is not thief,it is those that have refuse to pay their taxes are the real thieves.

[Fortify]

Morals talking time.

Surely a matter of topic that has concerned many philosophers and intellectuals. I imagine most of (genuine) Bitcoiners be like "back-to-the-landers", libertarians, with desire to be self-sufficient. However, objectively speaking, taxation is theft. It's taking someone's property without their consent, and it is compulsory. It very much fits the definition of theft, even though you can find it slightly altered in other sources, like the Cambridge dictionary ("the crime of illegally taking something that belongs to someone else")

(That's right dear reader, that was a clickbait!)

The question is rather: Is taxation justifiable theft? A necessary evil? Libertarians tend to argue that it's wrong regardless the intentions. Taking someone's property without their permission is unethical, no matter how good you want to do with it. Others, who support social contract theory, argue that it's necessary and should be seen as "voluntary obligation".

There is no right or wrong answer (un)fortunately. Feel free to speak out loud.


My stance on this is that both "groups" bring some compelling arguments on the table, in favor of their ideology. I don't know. I think there's a place where we draw the line. For example, nowadays, I think we've crossed that line (towards more government of course). I don't think we need that much government into the markets.

I also feel really stupid when I see politicians talking about taxing gains from cryptocurrencies, with phrases like "unhosted wallets", or by attacking privacy services. They talk as if privacy invasion is a requirement, or "obligation" as per the social contract theory. I think this really crosses the line.

If we want to live in a rich society then we should get used to pooling and sharing resources. Taxes help to create a central pot of money that should theoretically be the most powerful way to spend money. If the government uses it wisely they could encourage suppliers to offer the cheapest prices because they will offer the biggest contracts possible - using medicines as an example. It also allows you to pay for essential services like firefighters instead of receiving spotty and incomplete versions that would still need to be funded privately. There are so many advantages to taxation, but the general public deserve it to be spent efficiently and fairly.

[Wakate]

First of all,we need to understand what thief/stealing means. Thief/stealing means "To Take without right or permission.Every country have  laws and order of doing things and whatever is not prohibited by law cannot be seen as stealing. Taxation is not illegal or prohibited by any Country law rather it is the right/duty of the government to collect money from all citizens for public services. Public services like building schools,roads,provide stable electricity and security to betterment the lives of the citizens.

Government doesn't need  permission to impose tax on her citizens it is their right as it is been back by law. Infact it your right as a citizen to pay your taxes and it is illegal if you refuse because it is so unlawful not to pay tax

Thinking that Taxation is a thief means you either don't understand/comprehend what tax are.

So Taxation is not thief,it is those that have refuse to pay their taxes are the real thieves.

Taxation is not the act of theft ina normal sense but the government has been using this means to force us to pay our taxes even when we are not getting enough basic amenities to prove that we are paying taxes. The law say, pay your taxes when due without audible restrictions. Paying tax is our obligation but why will the government use tax payers money for reckless things that don't really bring values to the people. Many are still diverting tax payments because they fell like the money is not being used for something tangible or they felt like it's not their duties. There are still countries that don't pay tax or maybe they pay less why majority of the European countries pay heavy taxes.

[DrBeer]

Taxes are theft. Also to theft should be attributed - the receipt of pensions and social benefits, free public services (medicine, education, etc.) - these are generally terrible crimes generated by theft, oops, taxes

[RockBell]

This situation really varies on the status of the country where you are since if to many bad things happened there and politicians is not trusted to handle their position since they are professional criminals then we can really assume that theft is taxation.

And the way every country manages there affairs are different just that the habit of the politicians are the same because all they care about that moment is money and come with a lot of police's that they will use in extorting money from people and the people are not getting enough and the government is still taking from them how cruel can the government be, and  the people I blame the most is the judiciary they are even more corrupt because they allow the government officials to get away with their crime.

But if the government is using the funds they collected from our taxes and they are transparent of everything then give us good healthcare then I don't think we can call taxation is theft. Although situation really vary to each country since not all politicians look forward for the welfare of their people. Since lots of them just want to corrupt and earn lots of money from people who supports them.

If they are transparent and they are doing the needful I don't think people will complain about anything because it's a bill that is passed, the tax collected are suppose to be used for the intrest of the people but they will rather use it for there own intrest that is what annoys people the most so it is better that we know that the government don't care anymore about the people they call it democratic socialism but do the people have a a say not anymore and people want to protest they use the police to intimidate them.

[Su-asa]

The purpose and essence of demanding for taxes is to facilitate the infrastructural, developmental and economic growth of a country. But in a case whereby the government demands taxes from the citizens without providing good jobs that's definitely classified as theft. You can't pour from an empty cup, in order for the masses to be able to pay taxes they must have a job otherwise why would they want to give to a country that gives them nothing in return. In western countries paying taxes is something that's not up for debate, it's easy for citizens to make a quick response when they are financially stable not when they are struggling to survive.

[DiMarxist]

BlackHatCoiner thanks for this topic.

In the normal sense taxation is not a theft but the way the government is doing these days it is not normal again. Taxation is to develop the community, local areas and the government. But the tax collectors with their masters are siphoning the funds to their private pockets and abandoning the reason why the tax was collected. And because of the improper distribution of the taxation, they have increase the taxes and that is the major cause of the economic inflation. As the tax increases, manufacturing companies also increase their products and wholesalers also increase their goods and retailers also increase theirs then consumers pay the supreme price. And that is the inflation.
It is the duty of the government to moderate taxation so that business will be flourish and more businesses will come foe them to collect tax but because of greediness government increases tax. Today Nigerian National House Assembly gathered and discuss the new tax reform bill and it ended with deadlock. Taxation is good when it is moderate to the citizens to pay with feeling the pain.

[Unknown Op]

First of all,we need to understand what thief/stealing means. Thief/stealing means "To Take without right or permission.Every country have  laws and order of doing things and whatever is not prohibited by law cannot be seen as stealing. Taxation is not illegal or prohibited by any Country law rather it is the right/duty of the government to collect money from all citizens for public services. Public services like building schools,roads,provide stable electricity and security to betterment the lives of the citizens.

Government doesn't need  permission to impose tax on her citizens it is their right as it is been back by law. Infact it your right as a citizen to pay your taxes and it is illegal if you refuse because it is so unlawful not to pay tax

Thinking that Taxation is a thief means you either don't understand/comprehend what tax are.

So Taxation is not thief,it is those that have refuse to pay their taxes are the real thieves.

Taxation is not the act of theft ina normal sense but the government has been using this means to force us to pay our taxes even when we are not getting enough basic amenities to prove that we are paying taxes. The law say, pay your taxes when due without audible restrictions. Paying tax is our obligation but why will the government use tax payers money for reckless things that don't really bring values to the people. Many are still diverting tax payments because they fell like the money is not being used for something tangible or they felt like it's not their duties. There are still countries that don't pay tax or maybe they pay less why majority of the European countries pay heavy taxes.

But I have a opinion little bit different. Every country is forcefully getting the taxes from the public but they are not using our money for the good purposes and they are taking out money by doing different things. Rich people are not paying taxes and government always give relaxation to them and government said that they will produce jobs . Employee people always get no relief and government apply more taxes as it want . Most of the persons in the government are uneducated people who don't know how to grow the country but they used the money to get power .Power is everything in the World and by using this power they make money by doing wrong things which produce disaster in Economy of country and poor people are helpless and can't do anything against that .

[jaberwock]

I have a opinion little bit different. Every country is forcefully getting the taxes from the public but they are not using our money for the good purposes and they are taking out money by doing different things. Rich people are not paying taxes and government always give relaxation to them and government said that they will produce jobs . Employee people always get no relief and government apply more taxes as it want . Most of the persons in the government are uneducated people who don't know how to grow the country but they used the money to get power .Power is everything in the World and by using this power they make money by doing wrong things which produce disaster in Economy of country and poor people are helpless and can't do anything against that .

Most of them are corrupt, not every government is corrupt but majority of them are. This means they take our taxes, and then they just get rich thanks to that, they can't put it directly into their own pockets, but what they do is they deal with other companies, use our tax to pay those companies, and when their term is over, they just go work as consultant in those companies for millions of dollars. I believe that's the biggest issue the politics have, corruption that leads to wealth in these people.

I know that you can't prevent the politicians getting richer, how are you going to do that, ban them from having money? Hell they would figure out a way to stop that too if you do that, but what we need to do is make sure there is another agency in government that works to stop this corruption. If there is one, and it unearths all the corruption and gets paid to do that, then I am sure that it will be great for the public, protect our money and tax from corrupt people.

[Miles2006]

As a matter of fact taxation is not a crime neither will I consider taxation as theft. In our society today we debate a lot on taxation involving average citizens paying tax, like I will always say citizens pay tax accordingly meaning they pay what they can afford so the government can't allocate an amount beyound the business capacity etc. How the government make use of the money should not be considered firstly using this money wrongly is so bad and I'm against this, medical facilities, infrastructure should be taken care of but in a different situation citizens die because the medical center lacks the facility yet they pay their due tax sound stupid and wrong. IMO paying tax is important by so doing that the government might consider the citizens if only the leader is caring like this familiar saying two wrongs can't make a right, the most annoying part involve embarrassing business owners because they failed to pay also trying to force narrative.

[icalical]

At a certain rate and with correct approach, I think Taxation is a good thing, it helps reduce the economic gap if it is applied correctly, especially to the ultra rich. And if the government who is handling the tax money can use it to build a better infrastructure and better economic that can support poor and middle class people. But that's the very ideal situation, while in reality most of the government is either corrupt or mismanaged, they give tax amnesty to the ultra rich, but pursue every penny of the middle class tax.

[retreat]

The purpose and essence of demanding for taxes is to facilitate the infrastructural, developmental and economic growth of a country. But in a case whereby the government demands taxes from the citizens without providing good jobs that's definitely classified as theft. You can't pour from an empty cup, in order for the masses to be able to pay taxes they must have a job otherwise why would they want to give to a country that gives them nothing in return. In western countries paying taxes is something that's not up for debate, it's easy for citizens to make a quick response when they are financially stable not when they are struggling to survive.

The government collects taxes and distributes them through infrastructure development, health, education, etc., that's how it should be, but in reality what the government does is they use the tax money for useless things and just waste money, not to mention when the economy is getting tough but the government actually increases taxes - like what happened in my country - it's quite disgusting. I agree with taxes, but sometimes I feel like I don't want to pay taxes seeing what the government does in reality.

[uche6215]

Morals talking time.

Surely a matter of topic that has concerned many philosophers and intellectuals. I imagine most of (genuine) Bitcoiners be like "back-to-the-landers", libertarians, with desire to be self-sufficient. However, objectively speaking, taxation is theft. It's taking someone's property without their consent, and it is compulsory. It very much fits the definition of theft, even though you can find it slightly altered in other sources, like the Cambridge dictionary ("the crime of illegally taking something that belongs to someone else")

(That's right dear reader, that was a clickbait!)

The question is rather: Is taxation justifiable theft? A necessary evil? Libertarians tend to argue that it's wrong regardless the intentions. Taking someone's property without their permission is unethical, no matter how good you want to do with it. Others, who support social contract theory, argue that it's necessary and should be seen as "voluntary obligation".

There is no right or wrong answer (un)fortunately. Feel free to speak out loud.


My stance on this is that both "groups" bring some compelling arguments on the table, in favor of their ideology. I don't know. I think there's a place where we draw the line. For example, nowadays, I think we've crossed that line (towards more government of course). I don't think we need that much government into the markets.

I also feel really stupid when I see politicians talking about taxing gains from cryptocurrencies, with phrases like "unhosted wallets", or by attacking privacy services. They talk as if privacy invasion is a requirement, or "obligation" as per the social contract theory. I think this really crosses the line.

Taxation is something that should be encouraged and should not be seen as illegal because it's from your tax that your government use in providing basic arminities for the larger society which includes your security as a person part of your tax is going into defense of your country which is key to your safety so it's like a symbiotic relationship where you are expected to pay tax and on the other hand government provides security for you as you can't secure your self

[avp2306]

The purpose and essence of demanding for taxes is to facilitate the infrastructural, developmental and economic growth of a country. But in a case whereby the government demands taxes from the citizens without providing good jobs that's definitely classified as theft. You can't pour from an empty cup, in order for the masses to be able to pay taxes they must have a job otherwise why would they want to give to a country that gives them nothing in return. In western countries paying taxes is something that's not up for debate, it's easy for citizens to make a quick response when they are financially stable not when they are struggling to survive.

The government collects taxes and distributes them through infrastructure development, health, education, etc., that's how it should be, but in reality what the government does is they use the tax money for useless things and just waste money, not to mention when the economy is getting tough but the government actually increases taxes - like what happened in my country - it's quite disgusting. I agree with taxes, but sometimes I feel like I don't want to pay taxes seeing what the government does in reality.

If the money will go on those programs you mentioned then we cannot really say about the taxation is a theft since with those things we can see some developments happening in our country by help of those good leaders.

But the problem if our taxes goes to those corrupt officials then automatically also I can say that everything what they implement is a theft. We cannot get anything from those greedy officials and for sure we will suffer more on possible heavy taxation that they implement later on.

Unfortunately corruption is so rampant nowadays and we cannot do anything but to follow what those corrupt officials want to happen. The only thing we could do is not to vote them again when election day comes.

[bettercrypto]

This is how the issue we are discussing today is understood. This is how the issue we are discussing today is understood.
In the end, viewpoints and values determine the outcome of the tax discussion.

Although there are legitimate concerns about the efficiency and equity of taxing schemes, it's critical to acknowledge the contribution taxes make to the upkeep of a functional society.
Some counterarguments claim that taxes are meant to redistribute wealth and lessen inequality; if this is true, then, of course, people with higher incomes are paying larger taxes.

[beerlover]

The purpose and essence of demanding for taxes is to facilitate the infrastructural, developmental and economic growth of a country. But in a case whereby the government demands taxes from the citizens without providing good jobs that's definitely classified as theft. You can't pour from an empty cup, in order for the masses to be able to pay taxes they must have a job otherwise why would they want to give to a country that gives them nothing in return. In western countries paying taxes is something that's not up for debate, it's easy for citizens to make a quick response when they are financially stable not when they are struggling to survive.

The government collects taxes and distributes them through infrastructure development, health, education, etc., that's how it should be, but in reality what the government does is they use the tax money for useless things and just waste money, not to mention when the economy is getting tough but the government actually increases taxes - like what happened in my country - it's quite disgusting. I agree with taxes, but sometimes I feel like I don't want to pay taxes seeing what the government does in reality.

Unfortunately taxes increasing during bad economical times is the number one thing governments think of, instead of lowering their expenses. They know that they have set in motion a certain amount of spending, and have an idea how much it will increase year by year too, and that means if everything goes bad, economically I mean, they will end up with much worse situations as well, there is no need for them to worry themselves, they just charge us more and more tax, and hope that we will not riot.

And to be fair, most citizens in almost every nation do not riot when that goes up, I remember France did that, the yellow vest thing a few years ago, but aside from that people do not riot. Hence, why would governments be worried? They tax you whatever more they want, and we all say ok and accept.