Israel past, present and future

[Alik Bahshi]

  Alik Bakhshi

Israel past, present and future


 “The moral choice turns out to be the most pragmatic.”
                                                       Andrey Sakharov

     From the very first day of the formation of the State of Israel, its politicians were clearly guided by the words of Ben Gurion “it doesn’t matter what the goyim say, it’s important what the Jews do” and all their activities pursued one goal - to deprive the Palestinian people of their state. From the very first day of the official appearance of the state, the process of expulsion of Palestinians began, including from such large cities as Jaffa and Acre, which were supposed to be part of the Arab state. Millions of Palestinian refugees appeared.  Israel motivated the occupation of the territory intended for a Palestinian state by the fact that it has, firstly, a historical right to the entire territory of Palestine, and secondly, a myth about the mental inferiority of the Palestinians and their inability to create a normal state. (1) In this regard, the Palestinian the people need control and it is best to implement this on a reservation, fencing the Palestinians with a concrete wall and barbed wire, which for some reason causes them to frenzied resistance, accompanied by terrorist attacks and the launch of homemade primitive missiles at peaceful Israeli cities.
    The Palestinians, who initially did not have the opportunity to create an army, resist with all the methods available to them, characteristic of guerrillas or terrorists, which in principle is the same thing, because the difference between guerrillas and terrorists is the same as between intelligence officers and spies. By the way, it is appropriate to note that Jews were also involved in terrorism during the British Mandate, among whom the future Prime Minister of Israel Yitzhak Shamir was listed as terrorists by the British authorities. The most significant terrorist attacks were the bombing of the King David Hotel, which killed 91 people, and the public execution of two British officers. The terrorist Jewish organization Lehi (Israel Freedom Fighters) is responsible for the murder of UN representative Count F. Bernadotte, as well as for a very unsightly and immoral fact, namely the appeal in 1940 to the fascists of Germany and Italy with a proposal to jointly fight against Great Britain . The Lehi military movement later became the Israel Defense Forces. Who knows, maybe Hamas militants will form the basis of the Palestine Defense Army, and Hamas leaders Ismail Haniyeh or Yahya Sinwar will become the leaders of the Palestinian state. The difference between freedom fighters and terrorists is only in the definition, but not in their methods of fighting.

    Having such a powerful ally as the United States behind it, Israel was getting closer to its goal, and the so-called Peace Process, launched in 1991 at the Madrid Peace Conference (2), on which the Palestinians had high hopes, dragged on for a long time to no avail and was buried with murder in 1995 by Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin at the hands of a Jewish terrorist (3), and to be honest, with the tacit support of the Israeli public, who considered Rabin a traitor for wanting peace for his people, peace without which Israel has no future.(4)



 


     Israel's subsequent rejection of the Saudi peace initiative, which was based on the principle of “two states for two peoples,” was the reason for radicalization in the Palestinian environment and the rise to power of Hamas, whose leaders see liberation from apartheid, and quite reasonably, in armed struggle, because No other options, as reality shows, work. From a moral point of view, Hamas is fighting the occupier for the freedom of the Palestinian people; moreover, Hamas’s goal is to implement General Assembly resolution No. 181 of November 29, 1947 on the creation of two states in Palestine - Jewish and Arab, a resolution that has only been half fulfilled. Palestinians have no choice but to achieve freedom through war. Without an army, they are forced to wage a guerrilla war, which, like any war, is accompanied by terror, the victims of which are mainly the civilian population and confirmation of this is the Israeli war in Gaza, which is an integral part of the state of Palestine according to the map of the same UN resolution No. 181:

 


 As a result of annexation and the ongoing seizure of land for the construction of Jewish settlements, crumbs remained of the territory of Palestine, and the territory of the Gaza Strip shrank five times from its original size, which is why it became one of the most densely populated areas in the World.

 

    What is happening clearly illustrates an indisputable fact that confirms Israel’s political goal to deprive the Palestinian people of their land or, in other words, to send both the Palestinian people and the country called Palestine into oblivion. In this sense, the frank calls of the participants in the debate on the Israeli Russian-language TV channel 9 to expel the Palestinians from Gaza are very indicative. It must be said that Russian repatriates, unlike native Israelis, are unique in their excessive aggressiveness towards Arabs and not only Palestinians. Thus, the popular leader of Russian aliyah, Knesset member A. Lieberman, at the dawn of his political activity, longed for a large-scale war with the Arab world, and first proposed blowing up the Aswan Dam. In the article “Baggage from the Empire, or why we are right-wing here,” I wrote: “Russian” aliya is represented mainly by the intelligentsia, which is phenomenally different from the Israeli, and indeed from the intelligentsia of the whole world, in its right-wing political views, which are more characteristic of representatives of the Israeli shuk, which is regularly Likud leaders are sent before each election. The fact that on the Palestinian issue we look holier than the Pope compared to the native Israelis is explained not by the desire to show them our patriotic feelings, but by the imperial worldview that we had and with which we came from the “Evil Empire”.
 Among us, great experts in history, there is an opinion that there is no Palestinian people as such. There are Arabs who came to Palestine and let them go back to where they came from. Thus, following a similar statement, one can extend it to the peoples of Egypt, Libya, Algeria and other Arab countries, and finally implement the idea of transferring the Arabs, driving them all into the Arabian desert, and on even greater grounds, because, for example, in Morocco, they certainly came much later than in Palestine.” (5)

      Regarding the historical right of the Jews to Palestine, I would like to remind you that the Jews, as an established people, came out of Egypt when there were no Arabs there at all. In other words, the true homeland of the Jewish people is Egypt. In connection with which, historically, the Jewish people have more rights to Egypt than the Arabs who appeared there millennia later. (6) An irresistible love for free activity and reluctance to be in the status of slaves of the Pharaoh, in which the entire population of Egypt was, was the reason for the mass exodus from the country, where, after more than 200 years of residence, they became a people from the incoming tribe. According to legend, after 40 years of wandering through the Sinai desert, the Jews came to Canaan, where the Philistines lived, and subsequently took possession of the land of the Philistines, Palestine, and formed the Kingdom of Israel, the foundation of which dates back to the 11th century BC. e. around 1030 BC e. After the death of King Solomon (930–920 BC), the kingdom of Israel splits into the northern kingdom of Israel and the southern kingdom of Judah.

 


     Judging by the map, the Gaza region was not historically part of the Israeli state. By the way, the first mention of the word “Israel” was discovered in Egypt on the stele of Pharaoh Merneptah (late 13th century BC) and referred to the people, and not to the country of Israel, which did not exist at all in those days. That is, the word “Jew” carries a more semantic load and comes from a very common Hindi word in the East - “avara” (tramp). Also in Hebrew it means “passed over.” This word also gave the name to the nomadic Turkic people - Avars.

     The Jewish kingdoms did not last long. The north was conquered 200 years later by Assyria (721 BC). The kingdom of Judah was later destroyed by the Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar II in 586 BC. and significant by the destruction of the First Temple in Jerusalem and the Babylonian captivity, which began the resettlement of Jews in the countries of the East and West. Since then, Israel as a state has disappeared, and its territory turns out to be part of the Persian Empire, the Empire of Alexander the Great, the Seleucid Empire, with the fall of which for a short period of time 110 - 63 years. BC. The Hasmonean Empire emerges in Judea. Further, this region is controlled by the Great Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire, the Sasanian Empire, the Arab Caliphate, the Seljuk Empire, and finally the Ottoman Empire.
 It is important to note the fact that the Persians and Turks treated the Jews very favorably; it was during the Persian Empire that the Jews were allowed to return to Israel and conduct religious ceremonies, and the Second Temple was built at that time. Jewish wandering Radanite merchants controlled the Great Silk Road and trade not only in the Middle East, but also in Khazaria and Crimea. During the expulsion of Jews from Spain, when the Inquisition burned at the stake throughout Europe, the Ottoman Empire accepted Jewish refugees. And right up to the Islamic Revolution, Israel and Iran had excellent interstate relations.

     So, Israel as a state, after the Jews captured the land of the Philistines, existed in the history of human civilization for only 300 years. Since then, due primarily to the national mentality, preserving the Faith and traditions, Jews settled in different countries, engaging in trade and usury, preserving in the people's memory information about Palestine as the Motherland, although in fact the homeland of the Jewish people, as I said, is Egypt, in which the Jews , have more historical rights than the Arabs, the existence of which in those distant times in those parts no one had ever heard of.  

  As is known, the Arabs appeared in Palestine after the victory over Byzantium in 634 and since then have not left it until they began to be expelled by the Jews in 1948, in connection with the UN decision to create two states. Thus, if the Jews who came to Palestine from Sinai created a state that existed for only 300 years, then the Arabs of Palestine as part of the Arab Caliphate before its fall in 1258 were on this land for more than 600 years, plus another 690 years as part of the Seljuk and then Ottoman Empires, so the assertion that the Jews have more rights to this territory is highly questionable. Despite the fact that all the states known in history in Palestine existed much longer than Israel, the UN still decided to create two states in Palestine - Jewish and Arab. However, as a result of Israel's occupation of all of Palestine, the Arab state did not come into being, and for 77 years now the Palestinians have been unsuccessfully fighting Israel for their state. It must be said that the blame for what happened lies entirely with the UN, which made a fatal mistake for which both Arabs and Jews are paying. It was necessary to introduce international forces to the intended border of dividing Palestine into Arab and Jewish states in order to avoid inevitable bloodshed.(7)


     Here it is appropriate to recall some very unsightly moments from a moral point of view related to the history of the creation of a state for Jews, which are not usually remembered. The fact is that, having set out to create a state, the Jews considered various countries, and in this regard, the Jews came closest to organizing such a state on the territory of the Soviet Crimea.

     It just so happened that the duty of the so-called Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee, organized during the war at the instigation of Stalin, was to establish contact with the rich and influential Jewish community of America, which could provide financial assistance to the Soviet Union in its fight against Nazi Germany. The Kremlin's initiative was gladly received by American Jews, but the intended assistance turned out to be not selfless. The leaders of the JAC, who received direct financial support, seemed to feel like great political figures, writing a letter to Stalin in which they requested the creation of a Jewish Socialist Republic in Crimea, mind you, not an autonomous region, but a union republic. In order to appease American Jews, the Father of All Nations ordered the deportation of the indigenous people of Crimea in May 1944, making it clear by this act that Crimea was being prepared for a future Jewish state. However, when the war ended, Stalin shot the entire Anti-Fascist Committee in its entirety. ( However, subsequently Stalin assisted in the organization of the Jewish state in Palestine, which, according to his calculations, would be socialist. It must be said that it initially became such, but over time it turned into a mafia-socialist one, in which there is no market competition. Israel is essentially a semi-theocratic state, because religion is not separated from the state, which is nonsense for a democratic state. Numerous religious parties take an active part in parliament and government, moreover, the laws of Halakha are included in the country's legislation, and, who knows, under certain circumstances, the Jewish state can transform into the Jewish Republic of Israel, like the Islamic Republic of Iran. (9)
 
     Recently, the opinion of the world community has changed, today it has become more influential, and the words of Ben Gurion “it does not matter what the goyim say, it is important what the Jews do” do not work today. The latest war in Gaza, marked by an unprecedented number of civilian casualties, caused outrage among the world community. Anti-Israel demonstrations have taken place in democratic countries, and even in Israel itself, rallies and numerous demonstrations do not stop for the withdrawal of the Israeli army from Gaza and the resignation of the Netanyahu government, which does not find an answer to the important question of how he imagines the future status of Gaza. Moreover, it is not known when Netanyahu’s promised release of the hostages and victory over Hamas will be fulfilled. In the meantime, literally every day of the war brings sad news about the death of Israeli soldiers in Gaza, and the worst thing that can happen is if the state of Palestine becomes a reality and the untimely death of young people turns out to be in vain.

      The number of countries recognizing the state of Palestine is increasing, but Israeli society is not ready to come to terms with the idea that the Palestinians will live in their own state, and this fact is well understood by Netanyahu, who is forced to continue a senseless war for control over the entire territory of Israel, including the so-called fiction, that is, the Palestinian autonomy, which is actively being built up with Jewish settlements and even cities. Another 10 to 20 years of apartheid, which is exactly what we can call the conditions created by Israel on the territory designated for a Palestinian state in accordance with the same UN resolution No. 181, and such a concept as Palestine and the Palestinian people will become history. This situation explains the desperate and completely unequal struggle of the Palestinians with Israel and its patron, the United States, however... .

     America, which usually vetoes resolutions condemning Israel, is essentially pursuing a policy of double standard. On the one hand, America unconditionally supports Ukraine in its fight against fascist Russia, which intends to destroy Ukraine and the Ukrainian people (10,11,12), on the other hand, it covers Israel, whose goal is to wipe Palestine and its people off the face of the earth.
     Increasing global condemnation of Israel is forcing America to adopt a more cautious policy, as evidenced by President Biden's op-ed in the Washington Post, which suggested that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict could be resolved by creating two states for two peoples.(13)

    One thing follows from this: America’s policy regarding the Palestinian-Israeli conflict will no longer consist of unilateral support for Israel. And, most paradoxically, the terrorist organization Hamas led to this outcome! After all, it was Hamas that forced the world community to talk about the creation of a Palestinian state.
The Hamas ideology defeated the ideology whose goal was to create the state of Israel throughout the former Palestine. It should be noted here that the ideology of Zionism was deliberately modified, because initially it was intended to create a state for the Jews, which was accomplished, but the ideology did not include a strategy for the destruction of Palestine and the Palestinian people.

    Today, politicians in Tel Aviv are forced to reckon with the international community, otherwise Israel may find itself isolated, which is detrimental for a country that is not self-sufficient. Israeli society must abandon the idea of owning the land of the Palestinian people. Only peace with its neighbors is the key to a future for Israel. The Jewish state, freed from the confrontation with the Palestinians, will finally acquire the Constitution long promised to the people with a clear separation of all three branches of government, and the separation of religion from the state, which is an indispensable condition for any democracy. Israeli society must understand that a market economy is the only way to the country's prosperity, and not the established mafia economy of Israel with half government companies, legally protected from competition with the world market. Such an economy cannot be competitive on the world market; moreover, it impedes the influx of investment.

     Israeli society has significant scientific and technological potential, especially after the Great Aliyah, but this alone is not an indispensable condition for prosperity. It is necessary to create production on this basis, but in this regard not everything is going well. Thus, there are many startups in Israel, but their successful developments always become the property of other countries. The startup sees its goal as obtaining a patent for the development and quickly selling it well, without bothering with the production of a new product. But without production there can be no prosperity of the country. Only production creates jobs and ensures the country's wealth. I would like to address a well-known fact in which the national mentality was of decisive importance. So in Germany, banks ended up in the hands of Rothschild, and production in the hands of Krupp. It was production that ensured the prosperity of the country, and not the money of Rothschild, who moved to America. The Jews have money only to make money; Jews have been engaged in usury since ancient times; the Germans have money in order to organize the production of goods and, by selling them, expand production, which provides work for the population and its well-being, as a whole and for the entire country. Having financial capital is not yet an indispensable condition for well-being; in conditions of general hunger, no one will sell you bread for a mountain of gold.

      Israel has all the conditions to become a leading country in the field of high technology, following the example of South Korea, Taiwan and Singapore, which, thanks to the smart policies pursued by the leaders of these countries, organized the production of competitive goods, which brought the people of these countries out of a miserable existence. In Israel, politicians are only concerned with the struggle for power and protecting mafia production from the world market; there is a kind of symbiosis that ensures the well-being of the authorities and the owners of banks and manufacturing enterprises.

     Today, the people of Israel are faced with a choice on which their fate depends: either continue a senseless war that leads to nowhere, or deal with internal problems in order to become the second Singapore in the Middle East.


1. The main myth of the state of Israel. https://alikbahshi.livejournal.com/109378.html
2. Peace process, moratorium and other “Jewish things.” https://alikbahshi.livejournal.com/9080.html
3. On the question of who killed Rabin. Israel. Our country. 04.12.1996.
4. Peace and democracy are the future of Israel. Israel. Our country. 09.18.96.
5. Baggage from the empire or why we are right here. Israel. News of the week. 10/24/2002.
6. Facts, national mentality and historical justice. https://alikbahshi.livejournal.com/13335.html
 7. The UN's fatal mistake. https://alikbahshi.livejournal.com/106403.html
8. Whose Crimea. https://alikbahshi.livejournal.com/4030.html
9. Sephardic revolution or the Jewish Republic of Israel. Israel. Our country.09.14.20001.
10. Great Russian chauvinism, and Putin is its Fuhrer. https://alikbahshi.livejournal.com/21133.html
11. Russia's war with Ukraine. https://alikbahshi.livejournal.com/81691.html
12. State-forming people and their Fuhrer or Ukraine and further down the list. https://alikbahshi.livejournal.com/21749.html
13. Two states for two peoples. https://alikbahshi.livejournal.com/104990.html



 06/26/2024



  Original with illustrations: https://alikbahshi.livejournal.com/112318.html

[Hispo]

The point you make on the double standard policy of the United States has on both Ukraine and Israel is interesting, I think. But one is also supposed to keep oneself into context while writing things like this one.
Ukraine was invaded by a totalitarian regime, being the head of that totalitarian state Vladimir Putin, it is an open and hot war between two states which are recognized by the international community.
On the other hand, what has happened in Israel on October 7th and, what has developed from it, is more like a planned and continuous effort to wipe out the people of Palestine from the west bank. They do not count on a formal and trained army as Israel, Ukraine or Russia do, hence why they have extremist and guerilla-like groups like Hamas within the strip of Gaza.

It is a war which is out of proportion, in my opinion, and it was never supposed to happen. There is fault in both of the sides: Hamas and Israel, while the innocent are stuck in the crossfire.

[hellflame]

      Regarding the historical right of the Jews to Palestine, I would like to remind you that the Jews, as an established people, came out of Egypt when there were no Arabs there at all. In other words, the true homeland of the Jewish people is Egypt. In connection with which, historically, the Jewish people have more rights to Egypt than the Arabs who appeared there millennia later. (6) An irresistible love for free activity and reluctance to be in the status of slaves of the Pharaoh, in which the entire population of Egypt was, was the reason for the mass exodus from the country, where, after more than 200 years of residence, they became a people from the incoming tribe. According to legend, after 40 years of wandering through the Sinai desert, the Jews came to Canaan, where the Philistines lived, and subsequently took possession of the land of the Philistines, Palestine, and formed the Kingdom of Israel, the foundation of which dates back to the 11th century BC. e. around 1030 BC e. After the death of King Solomon (930–920 BC), the kingdom of Israel splits into the northern kingdom of Israel and the southern kingdom of Judah.

 

Ironically the Irish (Gaels/Milesians) came from Egypt the same as the Jews and were the chief soldiers of Pharohs armies. In ancient Irish manuscripts the father of the Irish is Hebrew originating from the tribe of Dan. This is why the Irish are a natural fighting race and so good at music and literature and why the harp of David is their emblem. They too wandered for hundreds of years before eventually settling on the island of Ireland and north Scotland and west Norway and Denmark. Surely then they could have the same claim upon Egypt? Of course we know the Irish lay no claim to any territory only the Island of Ireland but like the hebrew they have been persecuted and are a very innovative race. How come they are not getting as much help and money from the world powers and are not laying claim to countries? I think this russian or israeli politican is not the common type in Israel but a very extreme type maybe?

[Alik Bahshi]

      Regarding the historical right of the Jews to Palestine, I would like to remind you that the Jews, as an established people, came out of Egypt when there were no Arabs there at all. In other words, the true homeland of the Jewish people is Egypt. In connection with which, historically, the Jewish people have more rights to Egypt than the Arabs who appeared there millennia later. (6) An irresistible love for free activity and reluctance to be in the status of slaves of the Pharaoh, in which the entire population of Egypt was, was the reason for the mass exodus from the country, where, after more than 200 years of residence, they became a people from the incoming tribe. According to legend, after 40 years of wandering through the Sinai desert, the Jews came to Canaan, where the Philistines lived, and subsequently took possession of the land of the Philistines, Palestine, and formed the Kingdom of Israel, the foundation of which dates back to the 11th century BC. e. around 1030 BC e. After the death of King Solomon (930–920 BC), the kingdom of Israel splits into the northern kingdom of Israel and the southern kingdom of Judah.

 

Ironically the Irish (Gaels/Milesians) came from Egypt the same as the Jews and were the chief soldiers of Pharohs armies. In ancient Irish manuscripts the father of the Irish is Hebrew originating from the tribe of Dan. This is why the Irish are a natural fighting race and so good at music and literature and why the harp of David is their emblem. They too wandered for hundreds of years before eventually settling on the island of Ireland and north Scotland and west Norway and Denmark. Surely then they could have the same claim upon Egypt? Of course we know the Irish lay no claim to any territory only the Island of Ireland but like the hebrew they have been persecuted and are a very innovative race. How come they are not getting as much help and money from the world powers and are not laying claim to countries? I think this russian or israeli politican is not the common type in Israel but a very extreme type maybe?

Now it is clear why Egypt lost its former strength, the pharaoh lost the ancient Irish and surrendered to the mercy of history. But this is a slightly different topic. I think you need to write an article for Wikipedia about the Irish in the Pharaoh’s army. Wikipedia is full of similar legends that are presented as historical material.

[Alik Bahshi]

The point you make on the double standard policy of the United States has on both Ukraine and Israel is interesting, I think. But one is also supposed to keep oneself into context while writing things like this one.
Ukraine was invaded by a totalitarian regime, being the head of that totalitarian state Vladimir Putin, it is an open and hot war between two states which are recognized by the international community.
On the other hand, what has happened in Israel on October 7th and, what has developed from it, is more like a planned and continuous effort to wipe out the people of Palestine from the west bank. They do not count on a formal and trained army as Israel, Ukraine or Russia do, hence why they have extremist and guerilla-like groups like Hamas within the strip of Gaza.

It is a war which is out of proportion, in my opinion, and it was never supposed to happen. There is fault in both of the sides: Hamas and Israel, while the innocent are stuck in the crossfire.

 Yes, war is not proportional. Such war is called guerrilla war.

[laijsica]

The point you make on the double standard policy of the United States has on both Ukraine and Israel is interesting, I think. But one is also supposed to keep oneself into context while writing things like this one.
Ukraine was invaded by a totalitarian regime, being the head of that totalitarian state Vladimir Putin, it is an open and hot war between two states which are recognized by the international community.
On the other hand, what has happened in Israel on October 7th and, what has developed from it, is more like a planned and continuous effort to wipe out the people of Palestine from the west bank. They do not count on a formal and trained army as Israel, Ukraine or Russia do, hence why they have extremist and guerilla-like groups like Hamas within the strip of Gaza.

It is a war which is out of proportion, in my opinion, and it was never supposed to happen. There is fault in both of the sides: Hamas and Israel, while the innocent are stuck in the crossfire.

The US policy is to make itself more profitable and provide weapons to Ukraine in order to weaken Russia. In addition to allocating huge amounts of money for infrastructure development and military training and most of the weapons sales. They have different strategies for each country to maintain their sole dominance in the world.

The massacres and kidnappings that Hamas has carried out by entering Israel are certainly condemnable and terrorist, but as a countermeasure the ongoing situation should end. The US is constantly earning huge amounts of money by selling weapons to Israel. They are trying to strengthen the countries surrounding Israel in order to control them and are engaged in trying to destabilize the region through war.

You are right that Russia is destabilizing Ukraine through a totalitarian effort and occupying various territories. Putin will continue to try to establish dominance around his country and is not willing to bow to the US.

[montaga]

As BADecker would say all you need is a certain book and it will tell you the past, present and future
https://youtu.be/Vzph74ShwC8?t=22

Another one of  BADecker scholar
-Bishop Richard Williamson
https://x.com/i/status/1879039439613419572

[Alik Bahshi]

As BADecker would say all you need is a certain book and it will tell you the past, present and future
https://youtu.be/Vzph74ShwC8?t=22

Another one of  BADecker scholar
-Bishop Richard Williamson
https://x.com/i/status/1879039439613419572

  Everyone can have their own opinion, right? Do you have anything to say on this issue?

[passwordnow]

I hope that this ceasefire is going to be there for so long until both nations will live in peace and harmony again.
Gaza ceasefire deal agreed by Israel and Hamas, Qatar and US say

[Vallkeinec]

I hope everything goes well for Israel.

[Alik Bahshi]

The ongoing war in Gaza and the humanitarian crisis it has caused is leading the international community to the idea of granting a state to the Palestinian people, that is, to implement the 1947 UN resolution on the establishment of a Jewish and Arab state on the territory of Palestine.

[franky1]

    From the very first day of the formation of the State of Israel, its politicians were clearly guided by the words of Ben Gurion “it doesn’t matter what the goyim say, it’s important what the Jews do” and all their activities pursued one goal - to deprive the Palestinian people of their state

i was going to debunk multiple points about the narrative of 'palestinian state'.. but lets just debunk most of it on one blast

in short:
find palestinians independent symbology/flag/currency pre 1920.. enjoy your research

just look at the currencies of history. it will help inform you of the economic/political control of area's more so than many accounts/myths of history

the jewish shekel has been used from thousands of years ago, as have many renaming of other jewish/hebrew/isreali currencies

however a palestinian currency has not been noteworthy.. apart from a british mandate that allowed palestinian take over for ~28 years, where a palestinian pound only lasted 21 years.. until the political and economic mandate was revoked and put back to jewish/isreali based economics/politics

now try and tell me how long a 'palestinian' currency was used in the historic lands of isreal/judah and modern isreal pre 1920
..
with that said, palestinians have rights to the land known as gaza as historically it was philistia. but not the 'from river to the sea' land called isreal

..
historically the lands were conquered and then revolted several time by many different land claims by different tribes, aggressors, caliphates and empires over the centuries
but isreal has a long history and provenance claim of the land 'from the river to the sea'
where as palestine only has provenance claims of the land which is now called gaza

iranians did at one point have their historic persian empire conquer the lands, but isreal provenance predates the persian empire and post-dates it too
however these recent battles and events are solicited, sponsored and regimed by iran as a proxy takeover of isreal to then try to occupy it and regain a persian foothold of everything between pakistan and egypt again.. by using the palestinians for irans intentions

palestinians do not want to conquer new lands they just want to be left alone in gaza.. however the extremists of hamas doing the iranian regimes plans and funded by iran are the aggressors pushing propaganda, trying to pretend isreal belongs to arabians/persians
..
even the flag palestinians use is not recognising just the lands of philistia((gaza)true provenance) nor just the lands of isreal(latest false claim 'river to sea')
its instead a recent history invention made up of colours which is said to represent more historic conquests from as far west as spain/north africa to as far east as pakistans western border

in essence its a 1900's invention to set a narrative that persians/arabs/palestinians own all of the middle east+north africa
but although this flag is only 100 years old, it only tells a story of conquests of between 500AD-1500AD
(the flag is part of the iranians re-establishment of persian empire game)

palestinians dont have their own independent state flag just for palestinians

isrealites predate those flag denoted conquests, so again isreal have more provenance

[paxmao]

    From the very first day of the formation of the State of Israel, its politicians were clearly guided by the words of Ben Gurion “it doesn’t matter what the goyim say, it’s important what the Jews do” and all their activities pursued one goal - to deprive the Palestinian people of their state

i was going to debunk multiple points about the narrative of 'palestinian state'.. but lets just debunk most of it on one blast

in short:
find palestinians independent symbology/flag/currency pre 1920.. enjoy your research

just look at the currencies of history. it will help inform you of the economic/political control of area's more so than many accounts/myths of history

the jewish shekel has been used from thousands of years ago, as have many renaming of other jewish/hebrew/isreali currencies

however a palestinian currency has not been noteworthy.. apart from a british mandate that allowed palestinian take over for ~28 years, where a palestinian pound only lasted 21 years.. until the political and economic mandate was revoked and put back to jewish/isreali based economics/politics

now try and tell me how long a 'palestinian' currency was used in the historic lands of isreal/judah and modern isreal pre 1920
..
with that said, palestinians have rights to the land known as gaza as historically it was philistia. but not the 'from river to the sea' land called isreal

..
historically the lands were conquered and then revolted several time by many different land claims by different tribes, aggressors, caliphates and empires over the centuries
but isreal has a long history and provenance claim of the land 'from the river to the sea'
where as palestine only has provenance claims of the land which is now called gaza

iranians did at one point have their historic persian empire conquer the lands, but isreal provenance predates the persian empire and post-dates it too
however these recent battles and events are solicited, sponsored and regimed by iran as a proxy takeover of isreal to then try to occupy it and regain a persian foothold of everything between pakistan and egypt again.. by using the palestinians for irans intentions

palestinians do not want to conquer new lands they just want to be left alone in gaza.. however the extremists of hamas doing the iranian regimes plans and funded by iran are the aggressors pushing propaganda, trying to pretend isreal belongs to arabians/persians
..
even the flag palestinians use is not recognising just the lands of philistia((gaza)true provenance) nor just the lands of isreal(latest false claim 'river to sea')
its instead a recent history invention made up of colours which is said to represent more historic conquests from as far west as spain/north africa to as far east as pakistans western border

in essence its a 1900's invention to set a narrative that persians/arabs/palestinians own all of the middle east+north africa
but although this flag is only 100 years old, it only tells a story of conquests of between 500AD-1500AD
(the flag is part of the iranians re-establishment of persian empire game)

palestinians dont have their own independent state flag just for palestinians

isrealites predate those flag denoted conquests, so again isreal have more provenance

Bullshit.

Israel as nation dissapeared nearly a couple of thousand years ago. Or according to Franky's theories "they were offered a relocation deal" (see his post history today).

In AD 138, the ancient nation of Israel ceased to exist when the Roman emperor Hadrian crushed the Bar Kochba revolt and banned all Jews from Palestine.

That's it. Israel ceased to exist as did Capadocia, Assiria, the Aztec nation and thousand other nations in history.

The current Israelies are a collection of people from all over the world that have no claim to any land. They were given an estate by Britain and the US to settle and that's it.

The narrative about rights to ancestral lands is absolutely stupid and based in a falacy: Israelies are "the choosen people" and Israel (extended as required) is the land promised to them by their invisible friend (AKA God).

Under that argument, many other people could make claims to parts of the world based on "my grand-......-grand-grand father used to live here and there is a book that says this is mine".

Just to clarify: The state of Israel as today is recognised and I do not "call for its destruction" nor I consider the Jews or the Israelies "evil" in general.

I do however consider that the narrative that has been built by part of Israel society and many Jews not living in Israel about the "God given rights" to land and privileges is wrong and leads to violence, war and, eventually, may cause Israel to collapse.

[franky1]

Bullshit.

Israel as nation dissapeared nearly a couple of thousand years ago. Or according to Franky's theories "they were offered a relocation deal" (see his post history today).

In AD 138, the ancient nation of Israel ceased to exist when the Roman emperor Hadrian crushed the Bar Kochba revolt and banned all Jews from Palestine.

a. you have a reading disability, seek help..

b. i never made such statement that isreal were offered relocation deals.
you are confusing modern peacedeals with people in gaza in 21st century.. to pretend it had something to do with ancient history


infact after the revolt in the first couple centurues AD, galilee(modern isreal) as it was then named by the romans actually only banned jews from jerusulum but jews and isrealites still practice, preached and grew within galiliee and area's south
infact jews from judah and isrealites united within that region

infact the jewish talmud was created there as was the rabbinic judahism, then there are details you can look up like the sages.. which show jewish/isrealite involvement/living/events in the area during the first 7th centuries AD
so no.. jews/isrealites were not wiped out nor eradicated from the area.. in the early centuries, infact they united and grew due to the roman invasion

.. but it looks like the inept manchild known as paxmao is now trying to subtly postulate a narrative that italy/catholicism should make claim over isreal due to the roman occupation

sorry kid, but isrealites and jews(now united as isreali's) have provenance of existing in the region for many millenia


ok here is a serious question. a question i want you to take some time and really think about. some time to really process

palestinians origin story was not in 2 separate land pieces. much like first colonisers of the moon setting a flag, and then 2000 years in the future lunatica(luna=moon) cant then say their origins is both the dark and lit sides of the moon. they have to refer to the first colony flag location as the origins

so ask yourself. in all archaeological evidence, in all written history.. (not modern social media or 20th-21st century propaganda)..

where do the origins of palestinians descend from?
lets test your knowledge

[paxmao]

Bullshit.

Israel as nation dissapeared nearly a couple of thousand years ago. Or according to Franky's theories "they were offered a relocation deal" (see his post history today).

In AD 138, the ancient nation of Israel ceased to exist when the Roman emperor Hadrian crushed the Bar Kochba revolt and banned all Jews from Palestine.

a. you have a reading disability, seek help..
b. i never made such statement that isreal were offered relocation deals.

You have trouble understanding irony, it is a symptom of autism, but do not seek help, you are endless fun as you are...

This is what I am talking about.

[...]
as for asking palestinians to seek shelter in safer countries.. this is not isreal trapping palestinians in a killing field. again isreal dont want the palestinians in the warzone
yes its a warzone. a war between isreal and hamas.. (something you endlessly ignore)
isreal dont want innocent people suffering another harsh winter in tents in area's booby-trapped by hamas.. other willing countries are willing to take them in. the peacedeals include resettlement plans AND COMPENSATIONS
[...]

Well, the Israelis were "asked to seek shelter" too, nearly two thousand years ago and offered "a deal". The state of Israel ceased to exist and the people living there went about their business. The current Jews decided that they have a claim based on their religion (mythology for me because I do not believe any of it), their culture and their books but before the re-creation of the state of Israel, they were citizens of a hundred other countries with zero claim to the land.

Again, I am not against the estate of Israel, I am against the endless expansion of Israel that only brings death, war and terrorism. This means I am also against any other organisation that is seeking to create conflict or do terror.

So what does this mean? It means paxmao is an idealist that thinks that people can and should live in peace in this region, but for that the right leadership is required. One Netanyahu is enough to create war and terror for many decades.

you are confusing modern peacedeals with people in gaza in 21st century.. to pretend it had something to do with ancient history

Oh, I see... completely different. The Romans took Judea and imposed the usual harsh conditions on provinces and after endless rebelions by the Jew inhabitants, they waged war again and decided to utterly expel them.

Completely different from Israel, who imposed harsh conditions to Palestine and after endless rebelions by the Palestinians, waged war against them and are now offering "relocation".

Sure, Franky... veeeery different.

[...]
.. but it looks like the inept manchild known as paxmao is now trying to subtly postulate a narrative that italy/catholicism should make claim over isreal due to the roman occupation

sorry kid, but isrealites and jews(now united as isreali's) have provenance of existing in the region for many millenia

Again, you are confusing your thoughts with what I actually write and say. It is starting to be funny. Sad, but funny... more sad? more funny? I am undecided yet, but I am sure there will be case after case to decide.

Actually it is the opposite, I am saying that millenia old "rights" are bollocks.

ok here is a serious question. a question i want you to take some time and really think about. some time to really process

palestinians origin story was not in 2 separate land pieces. much like first colonisers of the moon setting a flag, and then 2000 years in the future lunatica(luna=moon) cant then say their origins is both the dark and lit sides of the moon. they have to refer to the first colony flag location as the origins

so ask yourself. in all archaeological evidence, in all written history.. (not modern social media or 20th-21st century propaganda)..

where do the origins of palestinians descend from?
lets test your knowledge

No thanks, I could search and learn more I am sure, but millenia old rights and origins do not make any difference.

The estate of Israel was not there. There were perhaps a few millions of Jews that had been prosecuted by nearly every state they settled in, so it seemed logical to give them their own space - I guess some people tought that to a point it was to export the "problem". Even offering them Madagascar was on the table.

Now it is there.

Peace makes a difference and the will to have peace makes a difference. Someone who likes as little when A kills B than when B kills A, but I am not a pacifist, peace sometimes requires fighting - but the right fighting for the right reason at the right time.

If you want a wild guess so that you can talk us through and prove whatever point.. I think there is little original difference between Palestinians and what used to be the Jew original population in the middle east. At most, tribal-cultural and very local differences at regional level. All semithic... even their languages have similar origins AFAIK. But again, I am not going to dig but thanks for the offer.

[Shova]

If things goes as it is, there would be no going back for Israel and Hamas and the war won't stop till another cease to exists. With current circumstances, its likely Hamas. The world is willing to starve and kill all people in Gaza to get rid of Hamas and Israel is still bombing those starving people.
It's really sad that Humanity has gone this low but maybe the world knows they need to go through this for greater good of the world.

[Alik Bahshi]

If things goes as it is, there would be no going back for Israel and Hamas and the war won't stop till another cease to exists. With current circumstances, its likely Hamas. The world is willing to starve and kill all people in Gaza to get rid of Hamas and Israel is still bombing those starving people.
It's really sad that Humanity has gone this low but maybe the world knows they need to go through this for greater good of the world.

Where does this absurdity come from? Why do you dare to claim that the World understands that all Palestinians must be killed? Don't lie. Quite the contrary, the World understands that the Palestinians must be saved from Israel's intention to destroy the Palestinian people.

[franky1]

Well, the Israelis were "asked to seek shelter" too, nearly two thousand years ago and offered "a deal". The state of Israel ceased to exist and the people living there went about their business. The current Jews decided that they have a claim based on their religion (mythology for me because I do not believe any of it), their culture and their books but before the re-creation of the state of Israel, they were citizens of a hundred other countries with zero claim to the land.
[..]
The Romans took Judea and imposed the usual harsh conditions on provinces and after endless rebelions by the Jew inhabitants, they waged war again and decided to utterly expel them.

YOU want to make false land claims based on history, where you wanted to talk about history of things like "Bar Kochba revolt" and pretending 'palestine existed then(facepalm)
but then when asked a serious question... you do this

where do the origins of palestinians descend from?
lets test your knowledge

No thanks, I could search and learn more I am sure, but millenia old rights and origins do not make any difference.

so you know palestine didnt exist.. you know if you did try to make ancient land claims of pretending isreal is actually palestine, you would fail..

you want to pretend the land mass of isreal(from river to sea) is some how entirely 'palestine' but you cant back it up

atleast i can show and have hinted in many posts in many topics that the descendants of philistinia(gaza) became palestinians so gaza should be a peaceful palestinian state.. but your folks silly notion of "from river to the sea" stupidity has no backed claims

.. but i got to laugh how you wanted to use ancient history as a false claim.. but then when poked for a serious answer you cowardly stepped away and said how ancient claims are somehow meaningless.. both admitting palestine have no claims of isreal. and also how you are a hypocrite when you realise your mistake in attempting to use ancient history details such as "Bar Kochba revolt".. but lacked the actual facts.. and then went backwards to then say history doesnt matter