SMF patch, to display unlock at the top. Can it be done?

[tranthidung]

At top or bottom of a thread, the forum software gives us

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Reply  |  Unwatch  |  Notify  |  Mark unread  |  Print

If it is my own topic, but locked, I will see these things.
At top

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Reply  |  Unwatch  |  Notify  |  Mark unread  |  Print

At bottom

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Reply  |  Unwatch  |  Notify  |  Add poll  |  Print

and

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Move Topic  |  Lock topic

My idea is:

• Can we have same clickable texts (buttons) at top and bottom?
• It can save time to scroll down to lock or unlock a topic.

Like this

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Move Topic  |  Lock topic                  Reply  |  Unwatch  |  Notify  |  Mark unread  |  Add poll  |  Print

@PowerGlove, what do you think? 

[_act_]

I do not have problem of where the move and lock links are which is the lower left corner. I can easily just scroll down and click on any of the two.

What I think is that if such links are on the upper left corner also, it will not be as beautiful as it is now. I prefer how it is now.

[tranthidung]

I do not have problem of where the move and lock links are which is the lower left corner. I can easily just scroll down and click on any of the two.

What I think is that if such links are on the upper left corner also, it will not be as beautiful as it is now. I prefer how it is now.

The left space at both top and bottom is reserved for Page number as I see.

I wonder if we can organize to make the same things for both top and bottom, if possible. What it is now is usable but if we can improve, why we don't do it?

You can not deny that it will be a little inconvenience in thread, page that is too big like with big images (when users don't use width or height options for images), you will need more time to scroll down, only to do simple things, lock or unlock a thread.

If it is impossible for restructure, I accept what it is now.

[RickDeckard]

I reckon the pain that tranthidung talks about as I have felt it more in the contests that I organized some time ago - due to the amount of images that it had I had to scroll for a while before I reached those options. It would be more lean to have it appear alongside the other options to control the thread indeed.

Considering that the left side of the post already has the "Page" section, what about having it after the "Print" option? :

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Reply  |  Unwatch  |  Notify  |  Mark unread  |  Add poll  |  Print  | Move Topic  |  Lock topic

[LoyceV]

due to the amount of images that it had I had to scroll for a while before I reached those options.

Press CTRL-End.

[Upgrade00]

For features that are not used as much I like to think that it's convenient where it is at the bottom of the page. It's very easily accessible using the command to reach the bottom of the page and on mobile a sharp swipe will get you to the bottom of a page in literal milli seconds.

There's also the issue that at the top of the page it increases the chance of someone clicking on it mistakenly, inadvertently locking a page they didn't want to.

[Mr.right85]

due to the amount of images that it had I had to scroll for a while before I reached those options.

Press CTRL-End.

While this might work efficiently for PC/laptops/desktops, the case is different when it comes to iPads/notepads/mobile devices. You still get to scroll manually to where you need be.

Personally, I don’t find that to come with any displeasure.
I don’t see much need in having much of these duplicate icons for specific functions here and there. It makes a more simple forum space where we don’t have things clogged up.
Rather, the much your adopted to the forum and the device you access it with, your nerve responses to retracing certain key functions would be almost innate and voluntary.

Besides, it doesn’t give room to having luck/unluck your thread by error. You become really specific in having to key in these commands.

[LoyceV]

While this might work efficiently for PC/laptops/desktops, the case is different when it comes to iPads/notepads/mobile devices. You still get to scroll manually to where you need be.

On phones there are much bigger issues than the location of this rarely used feature.

[SamReomo]

due to the amount of images that it had I had to scroll for a while before I reached those options.

Press CTRL-End.

Yes, that's the fastest way to do something like that, other than that way one can also use PgDn to reach the end of a page within seconds as that's also faster than doing it via scrolling.

While this might work efficiently for PC/laptops/desktops, the case is different when it comes to iPads/notepads/mobile devices. You still get to scroll manually to where you need be.

If I'm not wrong then most users at this forum either use a PC or laptop for browsing or writing posts at this forum, but surely the ones who're smartphone/tablet users might not be able to use those keyboard keys.

They can also do something like desktop/laptop users by connecting Bluetooth based keyboards, but I'm sure that most of them don't own such keyboards and that's why they will have to do it via manual scrolling.

[JeromeTash]

Like this

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Move Topic  |  Lock topic                  Reply  |  Unwatch  |  Notify  |  Mark unread  |  Add poll  |  Print

@PowerGlove, what do you think? 

By the way @tranthidung, you forgot there is also another link for topic archive by Ninjastic.space in case a user has the feature enabled in bpip.org extension.

So what you are suggesting would look like this;

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Move Topic  |  Lock topic                  Reply  |  Unwatch  |  Notify  |  Mark unread  |  Add poll  |  Print |  view topic archive

Currently, the arrangement is a little messed up, especially when the topic has so many pages like the wall observer topic.


So I imagine the word traffic that would be at the top there when more of them are added.

[_act_]

While this might work efficiently for PC/laptops/desktops, the case is different when it comes to iPads/notepads/mobile devices. You still get to scroll manually to where you need be.

On phones there are much bigger issues than the location of this rarely used feature.

On phones, tablets and other devices that you can scroll up and down with your finger on the screen, it will take just less than 1 or 2 seconds if you increase the force that you used to scroll. If the network is good and the images load very fast, it is also easy on phones to scroll down to the last part. This is not an issue at all than what some users are posting about it.

[PowerGlove]

@PowerGlove, what do you think?  

It's actually pretty easy to adjust this. The SMF devs left behind two easy-to-change array variables (one called $normal_buttons and one called $mod_buttons). There's a little bit of logic that makes $normal_buttons have sometimes different entries for the top of the page vs. the bottom, but besides that, it's nice and simple.

So, to be clear, when talking about the buttons at the top-right and the bottom-right, you're talking about $normal_buttons, but when talking about the buttons at the bottom-left, you're talking about $mod_buttons.

With that terminology established, what you're asking for is that $normal_buttons should be the same when it's rendered at the top of the page vs. the bottom, and that $mod_buttons should also appear at the top, instead of only at the bottom?

I mean, yeah, that makes sense to me (to the first part, I agree with you that it would be nice to make $normal_buttons symmetrical, and to the second part, I think I agree, too: firstly, IIRC, most newbies end up asking how to move or lock their own topics and that's probably because those buttons aren't where they expect them to be, they'd probably more often notice them on their own if they were duplicated at the top of the page, and secondly, maybe the mods would appreciate having access to $mod_buttons from both the bottom of the page and the top?).

Alternatively, Rick's suggestion basically amounts to taking two entries out from $mod_buttons and appending them to $normal_buttons. That suggestion has merit, too, but the mods probably won't appreciate some of the buttons in that area being moved and others being left behind (like the topic-deletion button, and the set-sticky-status button, etc.), so the best way to do that, I think, and it might be what Rick actually had in mind to begin with, would be to just lose the distinction between $mod_buttons and $normal_buttons, and just have $topic_buttons. That's a cool idea, but I'd be worried that the resulting list of buttons would be too long?

Maybe @theymos has some thoughts on this...

[ABCbits]

While this might work efficiently for PC/laptops/desktops, the case is different when it comes to iPads/notepads/mobile devices. You still get to scroll manually to where you need be.

On phones there are much bigger issues than the location of this rarely used feature.

On phones, tablets and other devices that you can scroll up and down with your finger on the screen, it will take just less than 1 or 2 seconds if you increase the force that you used to scroll. If the network is good and the images load very fast, it is also easy on phones to scroll down to the last part. This is not an issue at all than what some users are posting about it.

In addition, browser on such device usually show scroll bar. You can use it (which appear when you begin to scroll down/up) to scroll down to bottom or top of page instantly.


Image source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dcrs-jI0fY

[RickDeckard]

Alternatively, Rick's suggestion basically amounts to taking two entries out from $mod_buttons and appending them to $normal_buttons. That suggestion has merit, too, but the mods probably won't appreciate some of the buttons in that area being moved and others being left behind (like the topic-deletion button, and the set-sticky-status button, etc.), so the best way to do that, I think, and it might be what Rick actually had in mind to begin with, would be to just lose the distinction between $mod_buttons and $normal_buttons, and just have $topic_buttons. That's a cool idea, but I'd be worried that the resulting list of buttons would be too long?

When I proposed a change to the initial idea, I didn't even thought about that some more buttons may be hidden away from regular users and only appear to mods. You seem to imply that there are more "mod" buttons that what you've mentioned, do you have any idea how many more are left? This could create a long string of options that could mess with the display and reading (especially on smaller screens perhaps?)

My suggestion for this, in the event that the amount of options would be too much for one line, would be to create a 2 row display? I reckon that this may be more difficult to achieve, but it would basically divide the available options in two groups - those that appear to regular ones:

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Reply  |  Unwatch  |  Notify  |  Mark unread  |  Add poll  |  Print  | Move Topic  |  Lock topic

And for mods it would look like this:

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Reply  |  Unwatch  |  Notify  |  Mark unread  |  Add poll  |  Print  | Move Topic  |  Lock topic
Delete Topic | Set Sticky | (...) <---- These would be in a new line

It has the advantage that puts all the thread commands on one spot, but I don't know how it would look like from a design perspective.

[joker_josue]

I don't think this is a good measure! The different location of the buttons has a purpose, and they weren't made the same for a reason.

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move topic  |  lock topic

The location of these buttons has one objective: to avoid clicking errors.

If these buttons are close to other more common buttons, such as reply, danger can occur if they are clicked by mistake. It is for this reason that its location is different from the other buttons.

I've worked with several forums, some as a moderator, and these buttons were always in different locations than the most common buttons. This is for security reasons. Therefore, I only believe that its location should not be changed.

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reply  |  unwatch  |  notify  |  add poll  |  print

I can agree that the buttons at the bottom of the page, like these, are the same as the top. But the fact that the add poll button is at the bottom of the page also has a purpose. The goal is to avoid or reduce changes to the topic by mistake.

It should be noted that adding a poll to the topic is irreversible, so the button not being easily accessible aims to reduce the error.



They may say that when you click on the buttons, we have a next confirmation page, which is true. But, the idea is to reduce the likelihood of the error arising. If all of us, who are experienced in using the forum, have already done actions unintentionally: like giving extra merits; make incomplete posts; follow topics we didn't want; request notification on topics we didn't want. Imagine it being easier to click on more relevant buttons than these.

Of course, most of these actions are reversible. But if we can avoid that, it will be much better. And one way to do this is to have these buttons away from those that are most used.


EDIT (see I posted too soon  )

And for mods it would look like this:

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Reply  |  Unwatch  |  Notify  |  Mark unread  |  Add poll  |  Print  | Move Topic  |  Lock topic
Delete Topic | Set Sticky | (...) <---- These would be in a new line

It has the advantage that puts all the thread commands on one spot, but I don't know how it would look like from a design perspective.

The

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Delete Topic | Set Sticky

being located away from the other common buttons is even worse, especially Delete Topic.

Imagine a moderator accidentally deleting a topic? Can you see how easy it is to click Delete Topic instead of Reply?

These buttons should never be close to each other. It is a web design and software design concept, less frequently used and highly important buttons are never close to frequently used buttons. And if they do, it has a different highlight, or its action is easily reversible.

Yes, it is true that there is always a confirmation page. But why does a person have to be exposed to the danger of error?

[PowerGlove]

You seem to imply that there are more "mod" buttons that what you've mentioned, do you have any idea how many more are left?

It's likely different in theymos' version of SMF, but in unmodified 1.1.19, $mod_buttons can have up to 8 entries (depending on both global configuration and individual moderator preferences).

It has the advantage that puts all the thread commands on one spot, but I don't know how it would look like from a design perspective.

Your idea of splitting a combined "universal" command-list across two lines is kind of amusing (to me, anyway) because if you look at it in a certain way, then we've come full circle, back to how it already works. (It's just that, currently, $mod_buttons and $normal_buttons are presented in a very spatially-dislocated way.)

It makes me wonder how often the "previous topic" and "next topic" links are used, because if $mod_buttons was rendered there then things would work out pretty neatly...

Basically, go from this:



To this:



(And, obviously, the same replacement at the top of the page, too.)

Imagine a moderator accidentally deleting a topic? Can you see how easy it is to click Delete Topic instead of Reply?

That one has a confirmation dialog (at least, it does in 1.1.19). In fact, I think the only things in $mod_buttons that are on a hair-trigger, so to speak, are locking/unlocking and stickying/unstickying (both of which can be quickly undone).

[LoyceV]

It makes me wonder how often the "previous topic" and "next topic" links are used

I've never used them. Even if just bored, I prefer to read the titles in the list and choose from there.

[joker_josue]

Imagine a moderator accidentally deleting a topic? Can you see how easy it is to click Delete Topic instead of Reply?

That one has a confirmation dialog (at least, it does in 1.1.19). In fact, I think the only things in $mod_buttons that are on a hair-trigger, so to speak, are locking/unlocking and stickying/unstickying (both of which can be quickly undone).

Yes, it's true, I mentioned that some of the options have a confirmation page, to avoid accidents.

But I think this change causes more disruption than simplicity. Because if today, any of us, by mistake already press the button next to what we want, with more options this increases in probability.

I think the changes should be to simplify and not complicate.

But if the community thinks it's good, and @theymos thinks it's the best. Who am I to say no.
I just think that this doesn't improve the user experience, it just creates more visual "noise", in a place that wants to be simple.

[PrimeNumber7]

due to the amount of images that it had I had to scroll for a while before I reached those options.

Press CTRL-End.

Some people have neither the CTRL key nor the "END" key on their keyboard.

Regarding the topic, it is very uncommon for someone to need to use either of the buttons the OP is asking to be moved. If implemented, the moved buttons would be in a fairly prominent location.

[Alone055]

Press CTRL-End.

Some people have neither the CTRL key nor the "END" key on their keyboard.

They can use an On-Screen Keyboard in that case.   It's available in the Windows operating system, not sure about others though.

I'm just kidding, I know it's more convenient to simply scroll down than to open an on-screen keyboard and press the buttons to reach the end of the page.