Careful what you wish for: government intervention into Bitcoin

[legiteum]

Bitcoin started life as a means of thwarting government oversight into transactions. That's why Satoshi created it: for people who could not use normal means to transact for fear of prosecution by a government.

In other words, the very creation of Bitcoin was "anti-government", and that was clearly the theme given to it by the Bitcoin community.

As we've discussed here in the forums:

1. Bitcoin absolutely could be taken over by a major world government forcibly.

2. Short of an outright takeover of the network, a few words from the US president could send the price of Bitcoin down by 90% or more, and an act of the US Congress or an executive order by the US president could send the price of Bitcoin down by 99%.

In this context, it's amazing that one of the biggest topics during this US election season here at Bitcointalk.org is... the US election season. In short, it would appear as though much of the Bitcoin community is begging for the government to help pump the price of Bitcoin.

While we can debate the merits of this, I would start by saying just how amazing it is to see Bitcoin's evolution from being the darling of internet libertarians to... donating money like they are the old industry in search of special favors.

As for the debate, I would simply point out how short-sighted it is to invite the government--specifically the US federal government--to "help" pump the price of Bitcoin using the power of US laws. Never in the history of business has any product gotten away with this without being heavily regulated. Why? Because the taxpayers are going to want a return on their investment. For every new Bitcoin millionaire minted by the government intervention people here seem to want, there will be a million Americans who didn't make a dime from Bitcoin--and they are going to want their slice of the pie.

"Live by the sword, die by the sword" seems to apply here. Be careful what you wish for.

[Outhue]

Talking about taking over of the network is where you messed up badly, yet you don't want Bitcoin investors to eat in the same plate as the government, calm down, no one wanted this, not even satoshi himself.

But mind you, Bitcoin wasn't created to be anti-government, its created to decentralised and  uncontrollable by the government, meaning Bitcoin can still co exists with the government, which is why people want Trump for the president.

Don't get it wrong, people want Trump for the president because Bitcoin investors want peace, not because they want Trump to control Bitcoin, one want to give room for Bitcoin to coexists ( Trump ) and the other don't want this, he want to make things harder for Bitcoin Network and maybe probably say no to Bitcoin in the united states in the near future.

Bitcoin miners in the US are already facing hardship, if Trump gets there they might get their peace of mining Bitcoin back, with no crazy tax and other.

I as a Bitcoin investor isn't going to beg any leader to pump Bitcoin, this piece of innovation has been doing so well from the start, either they love or hate it, Bitcoin will always prevail.

[Ojima-ojo]

Mate I think you have some misconceptions about bitcoin and it inter connectedness to the government, with the way you make a clear standing on how bitcoin seems to be some anti government technology, when and where you mentioned that bitcoin was developed to stop government oversight in transactions, of course bitcoin is decentralised and highly privacy oriented, but that doesn't make bitcoin to be anti government, because the government have control over all transactions unless their are not interested in it.


There is alot of room for development and regulations in the cryptocurrency ecosystem if we ever want bitcoin to attain the mainstream global attention.

[legiteum]

[...]
But mind you, Bitcoin wasn't created to be anti-government, its created to decentralised and  uncontrollable by the government, meaning Bitcoin can still co exists with the government, which is why people want Trump for the president.

Don't get it wrong, people want Trump for the president because Bitcoin investors want peace, not because they want Trump to control Bitcoin, one want to give room for Bitcoin to coexists ( Trump ) and the other don't want this, he want to make things harder for Bitcoin Network and maybe probably say no to Bitcoin in the united states in the near future.

Bitcoin miners in the US are already facing hardship, if Trump gets there they might get their peace of mining Bitcoin back, with no crazy tax and other.

I as a Bitcoin investor isn't going to beg any leader to pump Bitcoin, this piece of innovation has been doing so well from the start, either they love or hate it, Bitcoin will always prevail.

Bitcoin went up 500% under president Biden. While I suspect that 99% of people here saying they want Trump would want him regardless of his stance on Bitcoin (and vice-versa), what people are asking for here is government help for Bitcoin, e.g. forcing people to use it ("legal tender"), giving it a special status that no other financial product has, and asking the US government to make massive purchases of Bitcoin ("strategic Bitcoin reserve") as to prop up the price.

In other words, people here begging for Trump and the "Bitcoin Trump Pump" are begging for something way beyond what we had in the last four years with a relatively unregulated market and that 500% appreciation of Bitcoin. For the people for whom 500% is not enough, they need special privileges given to their favorite investment, not just a simple free market.

Mate I think you have some misconceptions about bitcoin and it inter connectedness to the government,

I didn't mean to imply that Bitcoin is now connected to the government, I am merely asserting that is what people are asking for when they are asking for Trump to give Bitcoin a special status, have the US government purchase Bitcoin, etc.

There is alot of room for development and regulations in the cryptocurrency ecosystem if we ever want bitcoin to attain the mainstream global attention.

I completely agree, and what many people don't understand is that regulations often drive the price of an asset way higher because mainstream consumers can feel safe to invest in it.

Imagine if Trump were elected, he pardons SBF in exchange for half a billion dollars, and coordinates with his billionaire pals like Elon Musk to manipulate the Bitcoin market. You know what the average mainstream investor does when they see they this? They run the hell away. No average consumer wants to play this game because they know they will lose.

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

The government loves transparency; they want something that they can control and benefit from, as long as it involves finances. If there's anything that the government can do to bring Satoshi from wherever he is, I think they would have done it just to make sure that they can control Bitcoin. 

Based on the past events and the latest, I know that the government is just plotting for any way that they can have full control over Bitcoin and, if possible, be able to regulate the price, and I don't think they're going to stop until they archive that. Which I don't think is very possible. 

@OP, I don't think any experienced Bitcoiner would gladly hope on the government for intervention on the Bitcoin price or whatever. What the people (bitcoiners: miners and investors) only want is a government that is favorable for them to carry out their bitcoining freely without so many strict and unfavorable rules.

[Kemarit]

It might be true that "Bitcoin went up 500% under president Biden", but you have to take into account that he takes into office during the bear market in 2021. And so lowest low at $15,000 and moving forward today at $65,000++. But it's not Biden or his policy that push the price, it's us, that really do that. So there is no intervention whatsoever, it's the circumstances and the cycle on how Bitcoin moves.

What kind of law that will pull down the price to 99%? Care to give us example?

But thanks to your FUD though, Bitcoin went up today to $67,000,  .

[PrivacyG]

Bitcoin went up 500% under president Biden.

9 percent of your last 100 Posts on Bitcoin Talk have this exact statement in bold.  Over 10 percent of the remaining Posts are pro Biden related or anti Trump, even if they were replies to a completely unrelated subject.  I think the percentage is much higher, 10 is a minimum from a quick check.

I am really starting to question your motives now.  Do you have any relation to the Presidential Campaign or Politics in general?  It honestly seems very weird reading somebody continuously echoing the same idea over and over again, almost as if they were trying to change minds for a particular reason.

Also,

You keep manipulating people into believing Biden did miracles to Bitcoin.

Bitcoin went up over 3000% under president Trump.

-----

But it's not Biden or his policy that push the price, it's us, that really do that. So there is no intervention whatsoever, it's the circumstances and the cycle on how Bitcoin moves.

I find legiteum very weird.  He always tries to make it look as if Biden is the one to thank for the Bitcoin growth, which all of us know is not true.

[letteredhub]

In this context, it's amazing that one of the biggest topics during this US election season here at Bitcointalk.org is... the US election season. In short, it would appear as though much of the Bitcoin community is begging for the government to help pump the price of Bitcoin.

There is nothing much to debate here about this because no bitcoiner will be making a call on the government to take charge of bitcoin in terms of having access to it's price regulation. What I think bitcoin investors are clamouring for is for governments that could make for a friendly environment for bitcoin event's and activities to thrive and not creating policies that acts as constraint to bitcoin advancement (adoption). And if you think there's any other reason outside this as to why the bitcoin community seem to be giving Trump the large support then you getting it all wrong.

[Obim34]

In this context, it's amazing that one of the biggest topics during this US election season here at Bitcointalk.org is... the US election season. In short, it would appear as though much of the Bitcoin community is begging for the government to help pump the price of Bitcoin.

There is nothing much to debate here about this because no bitcoiner will be making a call on the government to take charge of bitcoin in terms of having access to it's price regulation. What I think bitcoin investors are clamouring for is for governments that could make for a friendly environment for bitcoin event's and activities to thrive and not creating policies that acts as constraint to bitcoin advancement (adoption). And if you think there's any other reason outside this as to why the bitcoin community seem to be giving Trump the large support then you getting it all wrong.

Just like you said, the motive as to why a lot of consideration is going on in the case of Trump emerging as the winner for the upcoming election is for the fact that he has quite the interest to allow the public have free access and public relations with Bitcoin and Cryptocurrencies, without condemning it. He might not be part of Bitcoin and neither is he a rival, everyone would be allowed to pertake in the Bitcoin journey without having to fight the government.

[EL MOHA]

In other words, the very creation of Bitcoin was "anti-government", and that was clearly the theme given to it by the Bitcoin community.

The government only see bitcoin as been their antagonist which clearly needs to tell you that why do they not need a decentralized currency as an alternative if they are not actually doing something bad with the fiat. The governments only see bitcoin as a it’s enemy simply because they can’t control it and shouldn’t be missed up with the idea behind bitcoin.

2. Short of an outright takeover of the network, a few words from the US president could send the price of Bitcoin down by 90% or more, and an act of the US Congress or an executive order by the US president could send the price of Bitcoin down by 99%.

I wouldn’t tell you this outrightly but i will say it will take more than the US government to bring bitcoin down to that price fall, no matter the policies they put in place. What else do the government have to do to actually stop this technology growing that they haven’t done yet. The major thing will be to ban mining, miners will move elsewhere what else.

The pump that comes with positive news from this election is nothing less than people seeing that the adoption rate will increase because one country will fully embrace it, this is the same way the market pumps and dumps when other countries too also talk about bitcoin, it is not a US thing only

[legiteum]

I am really starting to question your motives now.  Do you have any relation to the Presidential Campaign or Politics in general?  It honestly seems very weird reading somebody continuously echoing the same idea over and over again, almost as if they were trying to change minds for a particular reason.

Honestly, I really don't want to talk about presidential politics and I wish there was no discussion about that here. But 20% of the posts here seem to be from Republicans promoting Trump, so...

Bitcoin went up over 3000% under president Trump.

[...]

I find legiteum very weird.  He always tries to make it look as if Biden is the one to thank for the Bitcoin growth, which all of us know is not true.

I am simply pointing out that things went well for Bitcoin while Biden was president--to counteract the lies that Republicans say, e.g. that Biden is somehow "anti-Bitcoin". I'm not saying Bided himself did that, only that he didn't not do anything to stop Bitcoin's rise.

Under Biden, the Bitcoin ETF was approved, SBF was sent to prison, and the price of Bitcoin soared. Trump, on the other hand, promises massive changes to every aspect of American life.

The smart business move here is to go with stability and the status quo, not massive change.

In this context, it's amazing that one of the biggest topics during this US election season here at Bitcointalk.org is... the US election season. In short, it would appear as though much of the Bitcoin community is begging for the government to help pump the price of Bitcoin.

There is nothing much to debate here about this because no bitcoiner will be making a call on the government to take charge of bitcoin in terms of having access to it's price regulation. What I think bitcoin investors are clamouring for is for governments that could make for a friendly environment for bitcoin event's and activities to thrive and not creating policies that acts as constraint to bitcoin advancement (adoption). And if you think there's any other reason outside this as to why the bitcoin community seem to be giving Trump the large support then you getting it all wrong.

I'm all for the US government letting the market alone (as it has done under president Biden), but these are calls for massive changes that Trump will bring, e.g. having the US government buy billions of dollars in BTC as part of a "strategic reserve", thereby manipulating the market for a few billionaire insiders--and sending average investors fleeing the market forever.

And I'm not sure "the Bitcoin community" is supporting Trump. I would say it's about 50/50 here.

Most people are going to vote for Biden or Trump based on abortion, and whether it should stay legal or be outlawed. People aren't going to care much about their Bitcoin price compared to that.

[peter0425]

Bitcoin started life as a means of thwarting government oversight into transactions. That's why Satoshi created it: for people who could not use normal means to transact for fear of prosecution by a government.

This mindset makes it seem like we are doing something illegal which is why the government is against crypto. As well as the general public. They think only illicit activities are associated with the use crypto but that is not true at all. Crypto is simply a matter of trust and transparency that no third party can give its average citizens.

In this context, it's amazing that one of the biggest topics during this US election season here at Bitcointalk.org is... the US election season. In short, it would appear as though much of the Bitcoin community is begging for the government to help pump the price of Bitcoin.

With or without the help of the government, bitcoin will continue to rise in value however we can’t ignore the fact that it will all be useless if the government bans crypto in our government. The only support we want from the government is so we can
 freely use crypto as we fit.

[legiteum]

Bitcoin started life as a means of thwarting government oversight into transactions. That's why Satoshi created it: for people who could not use normal means to transact for fear of prosecution by a government.

This mindset makes it seem like we are doing something illegal [...]

Lots of things were originally designed to thwart governments that are perfectly valid and legal and moral to use as an honest person.

And not all governments are moral, so there's a place in the world things that can help people protect themselves against such governments.

[...] which is why the government is against crypto.

What government are you talking about? Bitcoin is legal to hold and trade in almost every country in the world, including China.

As well as the general public. They think only illicit activities are associated with the use crypto but that is not true at all.

I think crypto is getting pretty mainstream these days, what with Superbowl commercials and the like.

Crypto is simply a matter of trust and transparency that no third party can give its average citizens.

There are a lot of good companies out there these days that are truly in the business of protecting consumer privacy and in a no-BS way, like DuckDuckGo for search engines and NordVPN for VPNs, and the company I work for.

Bitcoin is a public ledger and subject to chain analysis, so it is not safe to use if you value your privacy.

With or without the help of the government, bitcoin will continue to rise in value however we can’t ignore the fact that it will all be useless if the government bans crypto in our government. The only support we want from the government is so we can freely use crypto as we fit.

That's the status quo in the United States and most developed countries. My criticism here is leveled at those who seem to want governments to not just let Bitcoin exist, as they have been doing, but to actively "help" (in heavy scare quotes) Bitcoin succeed. That's where the danger comes in, in my opinion.

[passwordnow]

It does makes sense that government intervention and any leader that would say good or bad about Bitcoin or even the FEDs, the price reactions real time. But there were some moments that it's not like that but let's stick to that as we have no control over that. The thing here is that, things like this is inevitable. Maybe even satoshi have foreseen this and knew it that if it becomes successful, the government will also play a huge role to it. I remember several years ago when Bitcoin is compared to payment processors like PayPal and now, they're part of the game and they've joined through adopting Bitcoin and not just them, also the other payment processors. Anyway, whoever is gonna be the leader, Bitcoin will continue to thrive and if there will be some cracking down related to it or laws that will be against it for which did happened already in the past, Bitcoin has proved its worth and the community that it has got.

[Outhue]

[...]
But mind you, Bitcoin wasn't created to be anti-government, its created to decentralised and  uncontrollable by the government, meaning Bitcoin can still co exists with the government, which is why people want Trump for the president.

Don't get it wrong, people want Trump for the president because Bitcoin investors want peace, not because they want Trump to control Bitcoin, one want to give room for Bitcoin to coexists ( Trump ) and the other don't want this, he want to make things harder for Bitcoin Network and maybe probably say no to Bitcoin in the united states in the near future.

Bitcoin miners in the US are already facing hardship, if Trump gets there they might get their peace of mining Bitcoin back, with no crazy tax and other.

I as a Bitcoin investor isn't going to beg any leader to pump Bitcoin, this piece of innovation has been doing so well from the start, either they love or hate it, Bitcoin will always prevail.

Bitcoin went up 500% under president Biden. While I suspect that 99% of people here saying they want Trump would want him regardless of his stance on Bitcoin (and vice-versa), what people are asking for here is government help for Bitcoin, e.g. forcing people to use it ("legal tender"), giving it a special status that no other financial product has, and asking the US government to make massive purchases of Bitcoin ("strategic Bitcoin reserve") as to prop up the price.

In other words, people here begging for Trump and the "Bitcoin Trump Pump" are begging for something way beyond what we had in the last four years with a relatively unregulated market and that 500% appreciation of Bitcoin. For the people for whom 500% is not enough, they need special privileges given to their favorite investment, not just a simple free market.

Even before Biden came to office Bitcoin was doing so well, he is no the reason why Bitcoin is up 500%, this is not my point, Biden is making things harder for Bitcoin adopters and Bitcoin miners in the United States, you aren't following up I guess, I don't have to say a lot about this because people on here are aware about this claims of mine. DYOR

[kryptqnick]

Claiming that Satoshi created Bitcoin for those who can't use the usual means of payment because of fearing prosecution is a stretch, in my opinion. It was the time when the 2007-8 global financial crisis has shown that the markets that seem reliable can crash, and that banks can't be trusted. So Bitcoin was created as an alternative. When it's just fiat, you have no choice. But when you have an option of Bitcoin, that gives you the freedom of choice. Bitcoin is an option that allows to get rid of intermediaries, to store and transact BTC without oversight. I don't see it as necessarily for those who fear prosecution or are anti-government.
The claim that a US president can drive the price down by 90% is completely unsubstantiated, and so is the part about the Congress.
Also, nobody is begging the US government to pump up the price. That's not how it works. People are rather excited that more relaxed crypto policies in the US may lead to a higher BTC price (and better opportunities for Bitcoin enthusiasts in the US).

[Iranus]

Careful what you wish for: government intervention into Bitcoin

What's more important is that even if we don't want them to interfere with the cryptocurrency or bitcoin industry, is there any way for us to stop them? Basically, we are still under their management and control so we should never think that we can stop them from doing whatever they want.

We all know that bitcoin ETFs, centralized exchanges, government legalization will all cause bitcoin to gradually become centralized and lose its decentralized nature. But none of us can prevent those things.

I know you're a Biden supporter and you're disappointed to see the majority of people starting to turn to Trump. I guess that's why this thread was created but there's also no way you can stop people from supporting Trump.

[legiteum]

Even before Biden came to office Bitcoin was doing so well, he is no the reason why Bitcoin is up 500%, this is not my point, Biden is making things harder for Bitcoin adopters and Bitcoin miners in the United States, you aren't following up I guess, I don't have to say a lot about this because people on here are aware about this claims of mine. DYOR

You can download an app and have Bitcoin in five minutes in the USA. If you already have a brokerage account you can have Bitcoin in your portfolio in less than one minute. Bitcoin is perhaps one of the easiest things to collect there is, as an American citizen. You can't turn on the TV here and watch a ballgame without seeing an ad for somebody selling Bitcoin.

But that's not good enough for the Bitcoin community, right? You need the US federal government to actively force people to use Bitcoin before you are satisfied, right? So the price goes up even more?

This is exactly what I am talking about...

Claiming that Satoshi created Bitcoin for those who can't use the usual means of payment because of fearing prosecution is a stretch, in my opinion. It was the time when the 2007-8 global financial crisis has shown that the markets that seem reliable can crash, and that banks can't be trusted. So Bitcoin was created as an alternative.

That is simply untrue. There is no evidence Satoshi even particularly cared about the "global financial crisis" and he absolutely never conceived of Bitcoin as an investment instrument as it is used today.

There are a million other investments that could be used to hedge against the US Dollar or other standard assets, like gold for instance. You are basically saying Satoshi was trying to make a competitor to collecting gold or some other commodity, but there would be no reason to create Bitcoin if that is what you were trying to achieve.

The claim that a US president can drive the price down by 90% is completely unsubstantiated, and so is the part about the Congress.
Also, nobody is begging the US government to pump up the price. That's not how it works. People are rather excited that more relaxed crypto policies in the US may lead to a higher BTC price (and better opportunities for Bitcoin enthusiasts in the US).

The FTX fiasco send the price of Bitcoin down by what? 60%? That was a relatively small blip compared to what the US president declaring Bitcoin to be outlawed, or substituting his own currency for Bitcoin, or really anything else that could threaten the stability of the market. The US represents a huge portion of the consumer investor interest in Bitcoin. If those people get scared, the price will plummet.

And there is no "relaxing" of regulations since anybody in the USA can buy Bitcoin in a few minutes already. What this has to mean is that people want Bitcoin to be purchased by the US federal government to make the price go higher, or force American citizens to buy Bitcoin whether they want to or not. You can't "relax" regulations that are already as relaxed as they can be.

I know you're a Biden supporter and you're disappointed to see the majority of people starting to turn to Trump. I guess that's why this thread was created but there's also no way you can stop people from supporting Trump.

Sure, and you are a Trump supporter, and I respect your political opinion. As for the polling, 538 has the race as a toss up right now, and they take a broad averaging of the polls. Trump is in the spotlight right now because of his being shot and the Republican convention, but the Democrats will have their time in the media in a few weeks as well--this is how US elections always work.

This election is about Americans deciding whether abortion will be illegal or not. If the majority wants abortion to be illegal, then Trump will win. If they don't, Biden will win.

[legendbtc]

The claim that a US president can drive the price down by 90% is completely unsubstantiated, and so is the part about the Congress.

OP is over-exaggerating America's power, it is true that they are a great power and have great influence around the world, in all fields. But that doesn't mean they can make everything disappear just because they don't like it, if they could do that then I believe bitcoin wouldn't exist until now.

Also, nobody is begging the US government to pump up the price. That's not how it works. People are rather excited that more relaxed crypto policies in the US may lead to a higher BTC price (and better opportunities for Bitcoin enthusiasts in the US).

Frankly speaking, bitcoin has never needed any support from the US president and its growth is just a matter of time as the demand for it is also increasing day by day. People are excited and want a pro-bitcoin US president simply because we want the development of bitcoin to happen faster. Because with or without Trump's catalyst, the increase in bitcoin price will be inevitable and no one can stop it.

[legiteum]

OP is over-exaggerating America's power, it is true that they are a great power and have great influence around the world, in all fields. But that doesn't mean they can make everything disappear just because they don't like it, if they could do that then I believe bitcoin wouldn't exist until now.

1. I never said "disappear". I said drastically effect the price. The FTX fiasco dropped the price of Bitcoin by 60%--and that was a mere blip compared to what an official action of the US government would do to the market.

2. As much as people seem to need to feel this, there's simply no evidence that the US or other major governments "hate Bitcoin" or secretly wish to abolish it. The US could pass laws banning Bitcoin anytime they wanted, yet they never did. This isn't because they couldn't, it's because Bitcoin Persecution Syndrome is just a figment of people's imaginations, or some marketing hype people apply to make Bitcoin seem more "cool" or something*.

(* And they don't seem to understand that, for average consumer investors, saying the government is against an investment is not "exciting", it's risky and saying this actually makes Bitcoin go down in price[/b]).

Frankly speaking, bitcoin has never needed any support from the US president and its growth is just a matter of time as the demand for it is also increasing day by day. People are excited and want a pro-bitcoin US president simply because we want the development of bitcoin to happen faster. Because with or without Trump's catalyst, the increase in bitcoin price will be inevitable and no one can stop it.

Yes, Bitcoin went up 500% under president Biden. Biden being reelected will mean the market keeps going the way it has been going, which is to say great for Bitcoin. Trump promises massive changes to the US economy and daily life, which will had risk to the market and could make Bitcoin plunge in value.