Proton launches self-custody bitcoin wallet

[OmegaStarScream]

You've probably all heard of the popular privacy-based email and VPN provider Proton.

Today, they have announced they're launching a self custody bitcoin wallet[1] which you can access from here[2]. I tried to join but apparently it's not available yet:

-snip-
You have been added to the first come, first serve waiting list.....

[1] https://techcrunch.com/2024/07/24/proton-releases-a-self-custody-bitcoin-wallet/
[2] https://account.proton.me/wallet

[NotATether]

Visionary and Lifetime users can use it right now:



Granted, I am a Proton enthusiast. But I would not want to use this wallet. This is effectively a web wallet in the style of Bitamp, so any extension or userscript or some other malicious code that compromises your web browser can add a stealer.

I don't think the wallet is open source either. I don't know. I just wrote to customer support asking about that.

[bitmover]

Granted, I am a Proton enthusiast. But I would not want to use this wallet. This is effectively a web wallet in the style of Bitamp, so any extension or userscript or some other malicious code that compromises your web browser can add a stealer.

I don't think the wallet is open source either. I don't know. I just wrote to customer support asking about that.

It is open source:
https://github.com/protonwallet/

Amazing that you are a visionary. I find that quite expensive, I would like to make a one time paymnet to become a supporter with some new features , but they do not have such plan...

[NotATether]

Amazing that you are a visionary. I find that quite expensive, I would like to make a one time paymnet to become a supporter with some new features , but they do not have such plan...

There is a raffle for a Lifetime account every year IIRC. Normally they cost around €800 but you obviously can't buy them anymore because that was only for sale during the 2014 fundraiser.

The visionary plans go on sale every Black Friday and renew bi-annually.

[Charles-Tim]

Web wallet are most vulnerable to attack.

I posted this on another forum:

It requested for email and password, which I do not like. I prefer wallets that I can be able to access using just seed phrase and nothing else than wallet file.

I use proton username and password which has not subscribed before and it brought this up on my mobile phone:



Because I did not subscribe and it brought up 'Updating your account' and did not update anything nor load any wallet. So no wallet until you subscribe.

I think if you subscribe, you may also be able to access their paid VPN (but I do not know) and their other products and services. But I can use other reputed noncustodial wallet like Electrum, Bluewallet, Sparrow, Unstoppable, Metamask and some other wallets without even using email and password and and they are free.

Be it open or close source, I do not recommend web wallets. I prefer a wallet that I do not need email, username and password to login. Just seed phrase or private key is enough to access my coins.

[bitmover]

Be it open or close source, I do not recommend web wallets. I prefer a wallet that I do not need email, username and password to login. Just seed phrase or private key is enough to access my coins.

I think it just depends.

If you have money in a hardware wallet locked inside a bunker 20m under the ground it is very safe, even from a nuclear war.

But do you need to keep all your money there? Will you go to the bunker everyday when you want to buy a simple bread and a coffee?

You can have many different wallets, with different degrees of security, for different purposes.

I use mobile wallets for funds which wouldnt hurt me if I lose...

[Pmalek]

I don't think the wallet is open source either. I don't know. I just wrote to customer support asking about that.

The wallet is supposedly both non-custodial and open-source.

I prefer a wallet that I do not need email, username and password to login. Just seed phrase or private key is enough to access my coins.

Proton Wallet is a BIP39 compatible wallet that provides users with a 12-word seed phrase. On top of that, there is some sort of master seed, which they call recovery phrase of your Proton account. You can also extend your seed with passphrases and activate 2FA.

If both the sender and receiver use Proton Wallet, you only need the e-mail address of the receiver to send bitcoin. The wallet automatically selects a new and unused bitcoin address that belongs to the receiver in the background. As soon as it gets funded, it gets removed from circulation to never be used again (to avoid address reuse). You can, of course, also send your BTC by manually entering bitcoin addresses of any other wallets and services. 

[DireWolfM14]

Even if it open-source and verifiable, I still don't like the idea of generating a seed phrase in a web-app.  A browser extension would be a bit less of a risk, but even those aren't to my liking.  But like Bitmover said; different types of wallets have their place and it all depends on the individual users use case for that wallet.

If both the sender and receiver use Proton Wallet, you only need the e-mail address of the receiver to send bitcoin. The wallet automatically selects a new and unused bitcoin address that belongs to the receiver in the background. As soon as it gets funded, it gets removed from circulation to never be used again (to avoid address reuse).

That's a pretty cool feature.

All in all, I wouldn't be opposed to using this wallet for small sums.

[dkbit98]

You've probably all heard of the popular privacy-based email and VPN provider Proton.

Just heard about it today and I wanted to test it out, but it's not available unless I pay them for access, and I won't to do that.
What I found out so far is that Proton wallet probably won't be fully open source despite them releasing github link, but let's wait and see.
It's certainly interesting to see one mail provider supporting bitcoin ecosystem.

Proton server is going to be used for saving data, so be careful with this one.
They are going to use some Proton Address Verification system and they explained it more in their blog post:
https://proton.me/blog/proton-wallet-security-model

[Not your key not your BTC]

I don't know what is special about this wallet so we have to be paid for it. even if it is a hot wallet, better look for free ones, or use a cold wallet like Core or Electrum which is absolutely free and safe.

[EcuaMobi]

I have a few invitations for Proton Wallet. PM me your Proton email if anyone wants to try it. I'll give preference to high ranked users.

I don't know what is special about this wallet so we have to be paid for it. even if it is a hot wallet, better look for free ones, or use a cold wallet like Core or Electrum which is absolutely free and safe.

AFAIK it's very limited only now during early access. It will probably be free later. They frequently give access to new services to Lifetime and Visionary accounts first.

[shield132]

Is Protonmail still popular? I remember that there was a boom in 2016 and almost every privacy-oriented guy was using it. Is the situation still the same? I haven't seen a proton mail address recently.

To be fair, I think it would be better if they prioritize improving their current products instead of creating a new Bitcoin wallet. There is no single reason that will push me and many other people to use Proton Wallet instead of Electrum and Sparrow. If Proton Wallet was a software wallet or an airgapped hardware wallet, I might use it but it's a web wallet, it's no safe choice. Despite the fact that it's open-source, it's still a web wallet and it's not a smart idea to use it but I believe it will definitely be better than blockchain.com if that's the case.

[NotATether]

Even if it open-source and verifiable, I still don't like the idea of generating a seed phrase in a web-app.  A browser extension would be a bit less of a risk, but even those aren't to my liking.  But like Bitmover said; different types of wallets have their place and it all depends on the individual users use case for that wallet.

The seed phrase is actually generated automatically when you first open the wallet, but they don't show it you you immediately. Probably because they want you to rely on your Proton Account as much as possible to access the wallets. But you can see the seed phrase, after clicking on a few buttons.

If both the sender and receiver use Proton Wallet, you only need the e-mail address of the receiver to send bitcoin. The wallet automatically selects a new and unused bitcoin address that belongs to the receiver in the background. As soon as it gets funded, it gets removed from circulation to never be used again (to avoid address reuse).

That's a pretty cool feature.

All in all, I wouldn't be opposed to using this wallet for small sums.

The payment system is like the Lightning Network, but it requires both participants to be using Proton Wallet. So it kinda cancels out the advantage to be fair.

[Pmalek]

There is no single reason that will push me and many other people to use Proton Wallet instead of Electrum and Sparrow.

Me neither, to be honest. I am using a combination of hardware wallets, desktop, and mobile wallets, and see no reason to bring a web wallet into the mix. Regardless of the company behind it and its non-custodial nature, it remains a web wallet that relies heavily on storing sensitive data on centralized servers. A leak, hack, or an unhappy employee could cause a lot of problems.

[ABCbits]

I could trust them more than random custodial or closed-source web wallet out there, but generally using web wallet isn't good idea. Besides, i feel they offer too many services these days even though i hear complain about poor support for Linux.

Is Protonmail still popular? I remember that there was a boom in 2016 and almost every privacy-oriented guy was using it. Is the situation still the same? I haven't seen a proton mail address recently.

I also don't know how popular is it these days. But it's still frequently recommend to people who want email with better privacy (usually better than gmail).

[cygan]

if you take a look at the github repository of the Proton wallet, the terms 'lightning' and 'coinjoin' quickly catch your eye
especially after the shutdown of the two popular coinjoin coordinators of zkSNACKs and Samourai wallet, a large new coordinator based in switzerland would certainly be an important step for many who value privacy

https://github.com/ProtonWallet/andromeda

[DaveF]

I could trust them more than random custodial or closed-source web wallet out there, but generally using web wallet isn't good idea. Besides, i feel they offer too many services these days even though i hear complain about poor support for Linux.

Is Protonmail still popular? I remember that there was a boom in 2016 and almost every privacy-oriented guy was using it. Is the situation still the same? I haven't seen a proton mail address recently.

I also don't know how popular is it these days. But it's still frequently recommend to people who want email with better privacy (usually better than gmail).

Since their lowest tier paid plan now has custom domains allowed: https://proton.me/mail/pricing you don't know if the address is proton or not.

davef@davef.com could be at gmail or proton, unless you look at the MX records or the headers of something sent to you you will not know.

As for the web wallet, it's the same as any hot wallet on your phone, treat it as cash you are able to loose with not worrying about it any you will be fine.

Everyone will have a different pain point about getting hacked / loosing funds.

-Dave

[dkbit98]

Did everyone suddenly forget how Proton mail worked with feds which lead to doxxing of their users?  
Using Proton wallet increases a risk of connecting email addresses with real identity and with your bitcoins.
John McAfee once said that the three letter agency was behind protonmail, we can't verify that, but I also don't trust the people working for Proton, especially their board members.

[ABCbits]

Did everyone suddenly forget how Proton mail worked with feds which lead to doxxing of their users?  

Do you mean giving activist data[1] or something else?

Using Proton wallet increases a risk of connecting email addresses with real identity and with your bitcoins.

People could create separate Proton account to avoid that, but we know only few people would do that,

John McAfee once said that the three letter agency was behind protonmail, we can't verify that, but I also don't trust the people working for Proton, especially their board members.

That's not impossible. But he probably just lying, just like his claim about his "unhackable" wallet[2].

[1] https://www.wired.com/story/protonmail-amends-policy-after-giving-up-activists-data/
[2] https://www.cnet.com/news/privacy/john-mcafees-unhackable-wallet-is-hackable-company-finally-admits/

[NotATether]

John McAfee once said that the three letter agency was behind protonmail, we can't verify that, but I also don't trust the people working for Proton, especially their board members.

That's not impossible. But he probably just lying, just like his claim about his "unhackable" wallet[2].

[2] https://www.cnet.com/news/privacy/john-mcafees-unhackable-wallet-is-hackable-company-finally-admits/

Proton can't give people your emails (they are E2E encrypted, except for the subject header and other metadata), but they can give up your IP address. Just use ProtonVPN whenever you want to check your mail, or any other VPN.

PS. John McAfee had gone complete wacko towards the end of his life. It makes me doubt later claims made by him.