A Texas Town’s Misery Underscores the Impact of Bitcoin Mines Across the U.S.

[DaveF]

According to their web site they have deactivated a portion of their units, are installing a a Sound Wall barrier and will convert to immersion cooling.  Are those things not true?

There are farms in suburban areas without sound walls??

Always thought this was a generally accepted requirement.

Only if you have competent / non corrupt people in the zoning - planning - whatever type jobs.

Places like Texas pride themselves 'Freedom' so then you have things like this happen.

To be fair it can be a tough balance at times, too much regulation and you run the risk of people taking business elsewhere. Too little and you wind up with things like this.


Slightly OT, but interesting is what I am seeing it a lot of old data centers in the fact that they are being converted from hosting servers to hosting miners.
For various reasons there are no longer ideal for servers but miners and other things are a lot more tolerant (long term data storage)

No noise or power issues since they already had a ton of power hungry noisy things in there.

Makes you wonder how accurate the numbers discussing mining in certain areas really is. It's easy to say Marathon or Foundry are here and mining this much since they are public and show it. The DaveF and  NotATether  mining company that is just leasing some space at an old data center in Fishkill NY (IBMs old stomping ground) doing a few dozen PHs is not really shown.

Think about all the small private miners still in the Pacific NW with all the ultra cheap hydro power that is not being counted.

-Dave

*Note I am not really in the mining business with NotATether but I am doing IT work for a company that IS doing exactly that (once again not in Fishkill but in a nearby data center) but the point remains when I look at mining distribution charts you don't see things like that.

[larry_vw_1955]

According to their web site they have deactivated a portion of their units, are installing a a Sound Wall barrier and will convert to immersion cooling.  Are those things not true?

There are farms in suburban areas without sound walls??

Always thought this was a generally accepted requirement.

i don't even think sound walls do anything. they might make the sound a little less loud but they probably don't cut it out entirely. and immersion cooling won't do anything either. since the source of all the noise is the fans that are exhausting the heat from inside the building to the outdoors. you still have to do that with immersion cooling.

some of these people want to move away but they can't because no one would buy their house! so it has also kind of ruined them financially. made their homestead worth alot less.

[philipma1957]

According to their web site they have deactivated a portion of their units, are installing a a Sound Wall barrier and will convert to immersion cooling.  Are those things not true?

There are farms in suburban areas without sound walls??

Always thought this was a generally accepted requirement.

i don't even think sound walls do anything. they might make the sound a little less loud but they probably don't cut it out entirely. and immersion cooling won't do anything either. since the source of all the noise is the fans that are exhausting the heat from inside the building to the outdoors. you still have to do that with immersion cooling.

some of these people want to move away but they can't because no one would buy their house! so it has also kind of ruined them financially. made their homestead worth alot less.

Immersion radiators with fans are not that loud. Compared to screamer fans  at 7000 rpm.  The 120mm by 120mm by 38 mm martech fan in the new s21's is really really really loud.  cooling an s21 along with hundreds of others means a lot of fans. they are ways to lower the sound but they all cost money. These big mines are on tight margins. They simply should not be in that building.

you could add 2 of these for every miner

https://www.ebay.com/itm/386115677997? and add two of these

https://www.ebay.com/itm/325154216998?

but that is about 175 a miner or money

[DaveF]

According to their web site they have deactivated a portion of their units, are installing a a Sound Wall barrier and will convert to immersion cooling.  Are those things not true?

There are farms in suburban areas without sound walls??

Always thought this was a generally accepted requirement.

i don't even think sound walls do anything. they might make the sound a little less loud but they probably don't cut it out entirely. and immersion cooling won't do anything either. since the source of all the noise is the fans that are exhausting the heat from inside the building to the outdoors. you still have to do that with immersion cooling.

some of these people want to move away but they can't because no one would buy their house! so it has also kind of ruined them financially. made their homestead worth alot less.

Depends if they are done properly or not. If they just put up a wall, then no. If they build a couple of different barriers then yes, they do work very well.

Think of it like a giant muffler for you car. You can put on a straight pipe with almost nothing in it and call it a muffler.

You can put on a stock OEM one and it's fairly quiet. Or you can build a custom one for your situation and make it even quieter then the one that came from the factory, it just costs a lot more.

As for the home values, goes back to what I said above, if you move into an area with a very hands off state of mind for planing / zoning, this is always the risk you have. Sorry, but no sympathy from me on that.

-Dave

[larry_vw_1955]

Depends if they are done properly or not. If they just put up a wall, then no. If they build a couple of different barriers then yes, they do work very well.

unfortunately you or me or the authorities don't get to decide if they work well or not. the only people who can decide that is the people being affected by the noise. you have to go with what they say.

As for the home values, goes back to what I said above, if you move into an area with a very hands off state of mind for planing / zoning, this is always the risk you have. Sorry, but no sympathy from me on that.

it doesn't mean the laws don't need to be changed then. new zoning regulations to deal with noise. plus many of these people you don't seem to understand probably been living there before bitcoin even got invented. i bet they don't like satoshi now though. i wonder if satoshi would feel responsible for kind of wrecking their lives....

[DaveF]

Depends if they are done properly or not. If they just put up a wall, then no. If they build a couple of different barriers then yes, they do work very well.

unfortunately you or me or the authorities don't get to decide if they work well or not. the only people who can decide that is the people being affected by the noise. you have to go with what they say.

As for the home values, goes back to what I said above, if you move into an area with a very hands off state of mind for planing / zoning, this is always the risk you have. Sorry, but no sympathy from me on that.

it doesn't mean the laws don't need to be changed then. new zoning regulations to deal with noise. plus many of these people you don't seem to understand probably been living there before bitcoin even got invented. i bet they don't like satoshi now though. i wonder if satoshi would feel responsible for kind of wrecking their lives....

You seem to be missing the point, due to lack of regulation(s) and such where there are allowed a BTC mine to be setup. Could have just as easily been any other loud commercial thing there. It just happens to be mining. If it were a jet engine testing and repair facility we would not be having this discussion because it never would have made the news. Or if it did it would just be local news.

Only because it's BTC / crypto are we hearing about it.

-Dave

[NotFuzzyWarm]

it doesn't mean the laws don't need to be changed then. new zoning regulations to deal with noise. plus many of these people you don't seem to understand probably been living there before bitcoin even got invented. i bet they don't like satoshi now though. i wonder if satoshi would feel responsible for kind of wrecking their lives....

You seem to be missing the point, due to lack of regulation(s) and such where there are allowed a BTC mine to be setup. Could have just as easily been any other loud commercial thing there. It just happens to be mining. If it were a jet engine testing and repair facility we would not be having this discussion because it never would have made the news. Or if it did it would just be local news.

Only because it's BTC / crypto are we hearing about it.
-Dave

Exactly. Then there is the matter of most Texans not liking regulations/zoning laws et al at all. That is a part of why the Texas power grid has few ties to the rest of the US grid. Remember, most of Texas is very rural - wide open plains and such. That means you can do with your property pretty much what you like and no one will say squat about it.

You want to keep all of your old cars on your property and have fun with them? Even use them for target practice? Go for it and all things like that. Once zoning laws show up they become a 2-edged sword:
 a. Sure, regulate noise - but be aware that target practice is also loud.
 b. Someone will also get it into their head that they don't like your collection of old junkers either and will want them removed because it bothers them to see it.
 c. etc etc

Main point is that being Texas - the locals will work it out for themselves and really prefer that outsiders who really know NOTHING about the situations keep their noses out of their business.

[larry_vw_1955]

Exactly. Then there is the matter of most Texans not liking regulations/zoning laws et al at all. That is a part of why the Texas power grid has few ties to the rest of the US grid. Remember, most of Texas is very rural - wide open plains and such. That means you can do with your property pretty much what you like and no one will say squat about it.

this is not just a "texas" problem. it's a national problem. bitcoin mining facilities have popped up in many states and caused similar noise issues for local residents. it's more a problem about how bitcoin mining generates alot of noise pollution than anything having to do with people not wanting regulations/zoning laws. everyone wants peace and quiet where they live.

Main point is that being Texas - the locals will work it out for themselves and really prefer that outsiders who really know NOTHING about the situations keep their noses out of their business.

then they shouldn't have complained in the first place if they didn't want us talking about their situation.

[ABCbits]

Exactly. Then there is the matter of most Texans not liking regulations/zoning laws et al at all. That is a part of why the Texas power grid has few ties to the rest of the US grid. Remember, most of Texas is very rural - wide open plains and such. That means you can do with your property pretty much what you like and no one will say squat about it.

this is not just a "texas" problem. it's a national problem. bitcoin mining facilities have popped up in many states and caused similar noise issues for local residents. it's more a problem about how bitcoin mining generates alot of noise pollution than anything having to do with people not wanting regulations/zoning laws. everyone wants peace and quiet where they live.

General noise regulation exist on national level[1] and Texas state[2]. I would say the bigger problem is government doesn't take serious action against company (whether it's cryptocurrency mining or something else) which violate such regulation.

[1] https://www.epa.gov/laws-regulations/summary-noise-control-act
[2] https://guides.sll.texas.gov/neighbor-law/noise-and-nuisances

[larry_vw_1955]

There are farms in suburban areas without sound walls??

Always thought this was a generally accepted requirement.

i'm not really sure what a "sound wall" is exactly. but the mining operators like to spit out that phrase as though it's the solution to the noise problem when i'm not really sure how effective those things are. i guess each situation has to be evaluated on a case by case basis to see if the sound level is acceptable for people that live nearby. but to me, any noise at all that can still be heard decreases the quality of life of those residents and i am sure they feel the same way. unless you can eliminate 100% of the noise then it's still going to bother some people.

[ranochigo]

i'm not really sure what a "sound wall" is exactly. but the mining operators like to spit out that phrase as though it's the solution to the noise problem when i'm not really sure how effective those things are. i guess each situation has to be evaluated on a case by case basis to see if the sound level is acceptable for people that live nearby. but to me, any noise at all that can still be heard decreases the quality of life of those residents and i am sure they feel the same way. unless you can eliminate 100% of the noise then it's still going to bother some people.

Fairly effective. Construction sites often erect a sound wall to reduce the noise, trains often have a sound wall to reduce the noise from train tracks, etc. Depending on the distances, it should reduce or eliminate the noise. It's kind of like a noise dampener. People do still live near airports or industrial areas so I don't think noise complaints is an entirely new issue.

[DaveF]

i'm not really sure what a "sound wall" is exactly. but the mining operators like to spit out that phrase as though it's the solution to the noise problem when i'm not really sure how effective those things are. i guess each situation has to be evaluated on a case by case basis to see if the sound level is acceptable for people that live nearby. but to me, any noise at all that can still be heard decreases the quality of life of those residents and i am sure they feel the same way. unless you can eliminate 100% of the noise then it's still going to bother some people.

Fairly effective. Construction sites often erect a sound wall to reduce the noise, trains often have a sound wall to reduce the noise from train tracks, etc. Depending on the distances, it should reduce or eliminate the noise. It's kind of like a noise dampener. People do still live near airports or industrial areas so I don't think noise complaints is an entirely new issue.

I would go beyond 'fairly' to 'very' yes it's subjective but done properly they could probably take something like a mining farm and cut the noise level down to where you don't even know it there. Trains / roadways / other loud things have been using them for years.

Probably does not matter in the long run. If they didn't put one in to start I can't see them spending the $ to put in a properly engineered one. And since they live in an area that obviously does not care about protecting the people that live there I can't see them being forced to.

But, as I said above, we are only hearing about it because it's BTC Had it been The DaveF & ranochigo Jet Engine Repair Company, it probably would not have even made the news.

-Dave

[Lucius]

General noise regulation exist on national level[1] and Texas state[2]. I would say the bigger problem is government doesn't take serious action against company (whether it's cryptocurrency mining or something else) which violate such regulation.
~snip~

I can only say that I understand how problematic noise can be (especially at night), because I had a bad experience with something similar, and regardless of the fact that such things are regulated by law, in order for a person to prove that someone is breaking the law, he must have a lot of knowledge and money. These things can of course last a very long time, and those who try to game the system do so very successfully. I solved my case in a completely different way, but that is already a story that I would not share publicly

Fairly effective. Construction sites often erect a sound wall to reduce the noise, trains often have a sound wall to reduce the noise from train tracks, etc. Depending on the distances, it should reduce or eliminate the noise. It's kind of like a noise dampener. People do still live near airports or industrial areas so I don't think noise complaints is an entirely new issue.

Sound walls help, but do not solve the situation completely - the point is that buildings close to the noise source must have the best possible sound insulation, but this would mean that you should never open the windows if the noise is constant. Of course, we cannot move railways and airports, but every country should protect its citizens from noise as much as possible, because noise destroys the quality of life and no one should be exposed to it.

[stompix]

But, as I said above, we are only hearing about it because it's BTC Had it been The DaveF & ranochigo Jet Engine Repair Company, it probably would not have even made the news.

You sure, maybe in the US, meanwhile here in Europe:
https://www.euractiv.com/section/agriculture-food/news/france-passes-law-to-protect-farmers-against-townie-complaints/

With thousands choosing to move to the country side the whole of Europe is flooded by lawsuits of people suing farmers for noise, farms that have been there for generations, and yeah, we're talking about being not able to sleep because of cow moooos!
Try building a mining farms here!

i don't even think sound walls do anything. they might make the sound a little less loud but they probably don't cut it out entirely. and immersion cooling won't do anything either. since the source of all the noise is the fans that are exhausting the heat from inside the building to the outdoors. you still have to do that with immersion cooling.

Sound is nothing magical, put enough mass in front of it and it will stop, reflect enough of it and you won't hear it.

As for cooling, it's a matter of airflow, you have the same heat but it depends on what area you want to dissipate it, two tiny fans going at 6000 RPM at 250 CFM in a metal box will be loud as hell, put 20-inch blade on that thing and you don't need the same speed for the same airflow. Also, you don't have the same area for the exchange so more area less volume of air per same surface.

[larry_vw_1955]

You sure, maybe in the US, meanwhile here in Europe:
https://www.euractiv.com/section/agriculture-food/news/france-passes-law-to-protect-farmers-against-townie-complaints/

With thousands choosing to move to the country side the whole of Europe is flooded by lawsuits of people suing farmers for noise, farms that have been there for generations, and yeah, we're talking about being not able to sleep because of cow moooos!
Try building a mining farms here!

the difference there is, the farmers were there first. so anyone moving into those places should have already known what they were getting into and if they didn't like it then don't move there. where do they think their food is going to come from if they put an end to farming? mining is not essential like farming.

Sound is nothing magical, put enough mass in front of it and it will stop, reflect enough of it and you won't hear it.

i don't know about that.  you would need a very tall wall though because sound can be reflected up and over a wall.

[philipma1957]

There are farms in suburban areas without sound walls??

Always thought this was a generally accepted requirement.

i'm not really sure what a "sound wall" is exactly. but the mining operators like to spit out that phrase as though it's the solution to the noise problem when i'm not really sure how effective those things are. i guess each situation has to be evaluated on a case by case basis to see if the sound level is acceptable for people that live nearby. but to me, any noise at all that can still be heard decreases the quality of life of those residents and i am sure they feel the same way. unless you can eliminate 100% of the noise then it's still going to bother some people.

...................................................         !
...................................................     !   !
good sound walls are ....................   !  !   !

two, three or four layers the sound is forced to angle up an away

or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aGRhEmZaO8

I had 4 of these they sent the sound up they were 30 inches with 24 inch fans

 this was good enough to not be loud

https://roofvents.com/retrofit-gravity-vents-aura-vent/av-30-rf-aura-vent-30-inch-diameter-retrofit/

if you added the fan they moved  3000cfm

if you got a 48 inch and added a fan they moved 7000 cfm

very quiet  since  much of the noise is muffled by the vents

[larry_vw_1955]

...................................................         !
...................................................     !   !
good sound walls are ....................   !  !   !

two, three or four layers the sound is forced to angle up an away

or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aGRhEmZaO8

I had 4 of these they sent the sound up they were 30 inches with 24 inch fans

 this was good enough to not be loud

hmm i thought sound walls were walls on the perimeter of the building kind of like a huge fence but solid but from that video it looks like they are inside the building as part of the ceiling. that would certainly be cheaper to install something like that.

[mikeywith]

i'm not really sure what a "sound wall" is exactly. but the mining operators like to spit out that phrase as though it's the solution to the noise problem when i'm not really sure how effective those things are.

They are somewhat effective, if you have ever lived next to a highway you would be able to tell.

Obviously, they won't make those massive farms 100% silent, from personal experience, I was able to hear "very slightly" the noise from my farm from a 2 km distance, it was on a quiet winter night, obviously, if you don't know where the sound is coming from, at that distance it would just sound like a truck engine somewhere a bit far, but once your ears grasp what miners noise actually is, you will be able to tell, the whistling sound that miners make due to heatsink design and high RPMs is exceptional.

Many people underestimate the noise level that miners make, but in a farm where we had no more than 200 something miners, right on the exhaust side, it was as loud as 120-130db, which is as loud as a jet, powerful it could break your ear drum if you stay there for too long without wearing ears protection.

One thing that would bring the noise level down close to silent for those who live like 1000 meters away would be to get the fans to spin below 3000RPM, that's when they get very quiet, if they spin anywhere near 7000RPM no sound barrier on planet earth would stop the noise from traveling a few kilometers away.

[philipma1957]

i'm not really sure what a "sound wall" is exactly. but the mining operators like to spit out that phrase as though it's the solution to the noise problem when i'm not really sure how effective those things are.

They are somewhat effective, if you have ever lived next to a highway you would be able to tell.

Obviously, they won't make those massive farms 100% silent, from personal experience, I was able to hear "very slightly" the noise from my farm from a 2 km distance, it was on a quiet winter night, obviously, if you don't know where the sound is coming from, at that distance it would just sound like a truck engine somewhere a bit far, but once your ears grasp what miners noise actually is, you will be able to tell, the whistling sound that miners make due to heatsink design and high RPMs is exceptional.

Many people underestimate the noise level that miners make, but in a farm where we had no more than 200 something miners, right on the exhaust side, it was as loud as 120-130db, which is as loud as a jet, powerful it could break your ear drum if you stay there for too long without wearing ears protection.

One thing that would bring the noise level down close to silent for those who live like 1000 meters away would be to get the fans to spin below 3000RPM, that's when they get very quiet, if they spin anywhere near 7000RPM no sound barrier on planet earth would stop the noise from traveling a few kilometers away.

yeah there is some you can do. but if you are sticking with stock 7000 rpm fans that come with the s21 they are noisy . and  you need more space to lower sounds .

you can not restrict the airflow too much or you won’t cool the gear.

you also need to be willing to lose hash rate if you aircool in the summer and the temps are over 35c or 93 f

hot weather hurts air cooling a lot.

[larry_vw_1955]

Many people underestimate the noise level that miners make, but in a farm where we had no more than 200 something miners, right on the exhaust side, it was as loud as 120-130db, which is as loud as a jet, powerful it could break your ear drum if you stay there for too long without wearing ears protection.

those people that work at the mining operation must be lying to the press when they say that they didn't notice the loud noises then  either that or they have severe hearing loss and that's why they don't notice but it sounds like somewhere that would be unbearable to work. job benefits: $20 per hour plus hearing loss