New ledger Flex junk

[dkbit98]

Just when I thought ledger can't trick people more than they already did, they decided to release another expensive wallet called Flex, and they are selling it for €249!

I don't see a point in releasing another touchscreen wallet, but sales of ledger Stax is probably going slow (they claim 100k waiting list), no wonder they are charging crazy price of €399 for that.

Ledger Flex is a bit smaller in size than Stax, it is using smaller 2.84” e-ink touchscreen.

Source code remains closed source. no surprise there, and connections are the same like in Stax, usb-c, bluetooth and nfc.


https://shop.ledger.com/pages/ledger-flex

Don't waste your money on another money grab from ledger.

[Pmalek]

They are maybe lying, but one of their latest tweets talks about a waiting list with over 100.000 people waiting for a Ledger Stax. Even if half of that is true, it's still a lot. You should never underestimate people's willingness to purchase stuff they don't need. I see no reason to purchase either Stax or Flex, unless you want your NFT's to be visible even when the hardware wallets are turned off on multiple devices.

They recently made a few tweets about trying to fix the problem of blind signing. The link to the product description you shared mentions, "What you see is what you sign", but I don't that's it. Also, it's a software feature that doesn't require the release of a new device.

[Meuserna]

Ledger is putting the excitement back into owning Bitcoin.

Do you ever wake up in the morning, feeling bored by the knowledge that since you're the only one who has access to your keys, your coins are secure?  How freakin' dull is THAT?!

Let Ledger bring the excitement of taking risks by giving them and companies the average Bitcoiner knows nothing about the ability to flex their way into your hardware wallet to extract your keys.

Why be cold when you can be hot!

Why have rock solid security when you can flex!

Ledger is making hardware wallets hot again.  Their reputation is on fire!

EDIT: It should be brutally obvious this is sarcasm.  Do not buy a Ledger.  Ledger can't be trusted.  Don't ever risk your coins to closed source firmware, especially Ledger's closed source firmware which contains code to enable key extraction over the internet by Ledger and their partner companies.  The very idea that a company wrote code to give them access your keys should scare the holy moly out of you.  Ledger says the "feature" is optional, but the code to enable it ISN'T optional, and Ledger lied about it.  Do not buy a Ledger.  Ledger can't be trusted.

[ABCbits]

It's a shame they also follow what newer HW company is doing. I'm sure there are already 2 or 3 hardware wallet with big screen and show NFT. And now they also promote controversial "Ledger Recover" on Flex page, even though it's not shown on Nano X page.

[larry_vw_1955]

Don't waste your money on another money grab from ledger.

it seems like the prices on hardware wallets just keep going UP. to the point where they are unaffordable.

[Meuserna]

Don't waste your money on another money grab from ledger.

it seems like the prices on hardware wallets just keep going UP. to the point where they are unaffordable.

Junk hardware wallets keep getting more expensive.

Go to AliExpress and buy a Yahboom K210 module for $45.  The Yahboom isn't a hardware wallet.  It's a small development device with a touchscreen and a camera.

Install Krux to turn it into the ultimate hardware wallet/signing device.  Krux is stateless, airgapped, free and open source.  Krux does seed QR, including encrypted seed QR, passphrase QR, BIP85, Testnet, Taproot, Multisig, and on and on.

[SFR10]

Just when I thought ledger can't trick people more than they already did, they decided to release another expensive wallet called Flex, and they are selling it for €249!

I can't believe Ledger had the audacity to release another overpriced product while some of Stax's batch 2 orders are still in limbo and to add salt to the wound, it appears that there's no difference between the BTC edition of Flex and the normal one ^{[apart from its color (SMH)]}!

but sales of ledger Stax is probably going slow (they claim 100k waiting list), no wonder they are charging crazy price of €399 for that.

This is getting ridiculous now... It went from $279 to €399 ^{[I'm not sure if they're dealing with some issues in its manufacturing process, but I have a feeling they're already trying to phase it out]}!

[larry_vw_1955]

Junk hardware wallets keep getting more expensive.

Go to AliExpress and buy a Yahboom K210 module for $45.  The Yahboom isn't a hardware wallet.  It's a small development device with a touchscreen and a camera.

Install Krux to turn it into the ultimate hardware wallet/signing device.  Krux is stateless, airgapped, free and open source.  Krux does seed QR, including encrypted seed QR, passphrase QR, BIP85, Testnet, Taproot, Multisig, and on and on.

very interesting never heard of those things but that sounds like the way i would want to go if i did a hardware wallet. is aliexpress legitimate though? as in do they really ship your order to the usa? 

[Meuserna]

Junk hardware wallets keep getting more expensive.

Go to AliExpress and buy a Yahboom K210 module for $45.  The Yahboom isn't a hardware wallet.  It's a small development device with a touchscreen and a camera.

Install Krux to turn it into the ultimate hardware wallet/signing device.  Krux is stateless, airgapped, free and open source.  Krux does seed QR, including encrypted seed QR, passphrase QR, BIP85, Testnet, Taproot, Multisig, and on and on.

very interesting never heard of those things but that sounds like the way i would want to go if i did a hardware wallet. is aliexpress legitimate though? as in do they really ship your order to the usa?  

I'm in the US & I've bought a few things from AliExpress.  Keep in mind, you're not buying a hardware wallet from AliExpress.  You're buying a development board type device that can be programmed to do whatever you want.  Krux turns it into a hardware wallet, but most people buy a Yahboom K210 to do DIY robotics.  It's just a neat little gadget you can write your own code for to do whatever you want kind of like a Raspberry Pi.  The Krux installer wipes it out entirely & installs Krux.

If you don't want to buy one on AliExpress, you can pay a bit more to buy one directly from Yahboom.  If you click that link, you can also see a robot car using a Yahboom.

[larry_vw_1955]

I'm in the US & I've bought a few things from AliExpress.  Keep in mind, you're not buying a hardware wallet from AliExpress.  You're buying a development board type device that can be programmed to do whatever you want.  Krux turns it into a hardware wallet, but most people buy a Yahboom K210 to do DIY robotics.  It's just a neat little gadget you can write your own code for to do whatever you want kind of like a Raspberry Pi.  The Krux installer wipes it out entirely & installs Krux.

If you don't want to buy one on AliExpress, you can pay a bit more to buy one directly from Yahboom.  If you click that link, you can also see a robot car using a Yahboom.

$56.99 even with free shipping. i can buy a ledger nano for less than that. hmm. this seems like something that would end up costing more than a real hardware wallet. does it need a TF card? then you have to buy that too.

[Meuserna]

I'm in the US & I've bought a few things from AliExpress.  Keep in mind, you're not buying a hardware wallet from AliExpress.  You're buying a development board type device that can be programmed to do whatever you want.  Krux turns it into a hardware wallet, but most people buy a Yahboom K210 to do DIY robotics.  It's just a neat little gadget you can write your own code for to do whatever you want kind of like a Raspberry Pi.  The Krux installer wipes it out entirely & installs Krux.

If you don't want to buy one on AliExpress, you can pay a bit more to buy one directly from Yahboom.  If you click that link, you can also see a robot car using a Yahboom.

$56.99 even with free shipping. i can buy a ledger nano for less than that. hmm. this seems like something that would end up costing more than a real hardware wallet. does it need a TF card? then you have to buy that too.

Then buy a Ledger and risk exposing your coins to closed source code that contains key extraction firmware by a company that lies to you again and again and again.  Even if you could get a Ledger for free, we'd warn you not to use it for anything more than a doorstop or a decoy.

As I explained, you can get a Yahboom K210 on AliExpress for around $45.  Even less on sale.  I got mine for $37 shipped.  You don't need anything except the device and a USB cable to install Krux.  Once you have Krux installed on it, you'll never need to plug it into a computer again (you can plug it into a USB wall plug like you'd get with a phone).  The rest of the stuff you're seeing on that page is for using it to do robotics.  You're not making a robot.  You're wiping it out & installing hardware wallet software on it.  Or not.  If you'd rather trust Ledger, go for it.  I have a buddy going through a nasty divorce.  We told him before they even got engaged "She's lying to you and she's cheating on you."  Sadly, some people need to get screwed over before they learn hard lessons.  Ledger isn't trustworthy, but if you trust them anyway, that's your choice.

Open source is the way to secure Bitcoin.  Krux.  SeedSigner.  Trezor.  I'm of the opinion that open source and DIY, like Krux and SeedSigner, is the best option since it means you don't have to trust a company.  I don't know about SeedSigner, but Krux is funded by grants from OpenSats.  And Krux is far more advanced than a janky Ledger nano.  Even NVK from CoinKite is recommending Krux.  The Yahboom device gives Krux a large touchscreen that shows you full details.  That cheap Nano has a microscopic screen that only shows you a few characters at a time and only has 2 flimsy buttons for navigation.  Oh, and if you're using that Nano with Ledger Live, congrats!  Ledger and everybody else has a billion trackers built into that thing.  Who needs privacy, eh?

Seriously, don't trust Ledger.  If we were talking about Trezor, I'd say Trezor is trustworthy but Krux is much more advanced (except it's Bitcoin only, but that also means better security).  But Ledger?  Oof.

[larry_vw_1955]

 Once you have Krux installed on it, you'll never need to plug it into a computer again

If you can't plug it into a computer then how exactly do you think you are going to be able to do transactions? Does this thing have an internet connection or something?

[Meuserna]

 Once you have Krux installed on it, you'll never need to plug it into a computer again

If you can't plug it into a computer then how exactly do you think you are going to be able to do transactions? Does this thing have an internet connection or something?

It's fully airgapped.  No internet.  No wifi or bluetooth.

An airgapped hardware wallet communicates with apps using QR codes.

The benefit of using an airgapped device is that it has no connection to the internet, which means hackers can't reach your keys, which means hackers can't steal your coins.  And the benefit of using an airgapped hardware wallet with a large screen is that it shows you what you're signing.

In my opinion, moving Bitcoin this way is much safer.

Let's say you're using BlueWallet, which is probably the easiest to use open source wallet app (it has a great design.  Super simple.  Sparrow is great too though).  You'll create a transaction in BlueWallet ("move 0.01 BTC to this address").  BlueWallet will make a QR code with a request for your hardware wallet to scan (generated from details of your transaction).  You'll scan it with Krux.  Krux will use that data with your keys to generate a QR signature.  You'll scan that signature with BlueWallet.

Scan the BlueWallet request with Krux.
Scan the Krux signature with BlueWallet.
Done.

The great thing about Bitcoin transaction signatures is that a signature is only valid for that specific transaction.  So, if your phone or your computer is hacked, the hacker can't change the signature or change the address to send your coins to his wallet, because any change to the signature would mean the signature wouldn't be valid for the transaction anymore, which means the transaction would fail...  which means your coins would stay safe & sound at your address.

The "crypto" part of cryptocurrency stands for Cryptography.  Bitcoin signatures are a brilliant form of cryptography that proves you have the keys without revealing what your keys are.  It's math.  Brilliant, brilliant math.

Another great thing about Krux is that it makes using Testnet easy.  Testnet is literally a testing version of Bitcoin where the coins have no value, because it's just for testing.  You can go to a testnet faucet site & get free testnet coins, and then literally play with different options for setting up security however you want.

Want to try multisig?  Do it first with testnet.

Want to try using a strong passphrase?  Testnet!

Want to mess with BIP85 (which I love and highly recommend to anyone who understands how seed phrases work)?  Hooray for testnet!

Testnet is awesome.

[ABCbits]

$56.99 even with free shipping. i can buy a ledger nano for less than that. hmm. this seems like something that would end up costing more than a real hardware wallet. does it need a TF card? then you have to buy that too.

Aside from Ledger reputation and history, cheapest Ledger HW on it's official website is $79[1]. I also think the page doesn't include tax and shipping fee, although it's at normal price. On a side note, you could build DIY Jade (based on Blockstream Jade[2]) which cost less[3] if you don't mind less feature.

[1] https://shop.ledger.com/products/ledger-nano-s-plus/matte-black
[2] https://blockstream.com/jade/
[3] https://github.com/epiccurious/jade-diy/

[zherbert]

We bought one immediately for testing.

https://x.com/zachherbert/status/1816864071276462174

My succinct take is that Ledger Stax's 180 degree curved eink display was extremely difficult and expensive to make at scale, without defects, and has a very high defect rate. Ledger likely spent tens of millions of dollars on screen development and has to put aside a very high percentage of screens at production due to fallout. Therefore the 1 year+ delays and price increase to $399.

Interestingly enough, the Flex has a much faster refresh rate + input response time due to a likely use of an existing eink panel (no custom tooling, etc). My guess is Ledger will cancel Stax within 12 months.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Why have rock solid security when you can flex!

I assume the rest of your post was as sarcastic as the above, but when it comes to Ledger it's hard to tell.  After the Recover debacle, there were still so many people who just shrugged their shoulders and kept using their wallets.

If that waiting list is to be believed, then my point is proved.  I can't imagine people are buying this new piece of Ledger crap as a collectible, which is about the only thing it'd be good for.  And damn, that's a lot of money for a closed-source wallet produced by a company that (in the eyes of thinking people) destroyed their reputation.

[DaveF]

Don't waste your money on another money grab from ledger.

it seems like the prices on hardware wallets just keep going UP. to the point where they are unaffordable.

Junk hardware wallets keep getting more expensive.

Go to AliExpress and buy a Yahboom K210 module for $45.  The Yahboom isn't a hardware wallet.  It's a small development device with a touchscreen and a camera.

Install Krux to turn it into the ultimate hardware wallet/signing device.  Krux is stateless, airgapped, free and open source.  Krux does seed QR, including encrypted seed QR, passphrase QR, BIP85, Testnet, Taproot, Multisig, and on and on.

They are also available at Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Yahboom-Developer-Recognition-Programmable-Development/dp/B08MTFFH5W and on other Amazon sites so if you do not want to deal with AliExpress for some reason you do have other options.

I am really starting to think that all HW wallet makers are getting greedy to the point of stupid. Sooner or later someone is going to again release a decent quality decent functioning HW wallet for under $100.  But for now these open source products like KRUX do work.

-Dave

[Meuserna]

Don't waste your money on another money grab from ledger.

it seems like the prices on hardware wallets just keep going UP. to the point where they are unaffordable.

Junk hardware wallets keep getting more expensive.

Go to AliExpress and buy a Yahboom K210 module for $45.  The Yahboom isn't a hardware wallet.  It's a small development device with a touchscreen and a camera.

Install Krux to turn it into the ultimate hardware wallet/signing device.  Krux is stateless, airgapped, free and open source.  Krux does seed QR, including encrypted seed QR, passphrase QR, BIP85, Testnet, Taproot, Multisig, and on and on.

They are also available at Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Yahboom-Developer-Recognition-Programmable-Development/dp/B08MTFFH5W and on other Amazon sites so if you do not want to deal with AliExpress for some reason you do have other options.

Be careful.  That's not the version you want unless you want to buy the rest of the parts to assemble it.

You want the Yahboom K210 Visual Module, which is a whole device rather than just a board.  Here it is on Amazon.  You can also see it on the Krux website.  It's the device in the bottom left of the picture.

[dkbit98]

They are maybe lying, but one of their latest tweets talks about a waiting list with over 100.000 people waiting for a Ledger Stax. Even if half of that is true, it's still a lot.

Problem is that ledger can't manufacture that much working Stax devices and they already had to delay a lot because of faulty screen design.
I think that Lixin Liu (owner of Keystone) talked about that in much more details on twitter, and he suspects that ledger Flex is just replacement for Stax.
Maybe ledger is just going to send Flex to everyone who ordered Stax and send refunds for price difference.
https://x.com/bitcoinlixin/status/1805619165518250358


https://x.com/bitcoinlixin/status/1816983045397987790

I can't believe Ledger had the audacity to release another overpriced product while some of Stax's batch 2 orders are still in limbo and to add salt to the wound, it appears that there's no difference between the BTC edition of Flex and the normal one ^{[apart from its color (SMH)]}!

Maybe this is all connected like I mentioned in my pervious reply.
Let's see what happens in next few weeks.

We bought one immediately for testing.

I can't wait to read test reviews
Stax was another BIG fail for ledger in every way, Flex is just their attempt to save the last tiny bit of respect they have left.

[larry_vw_1955]

It's fully airgapped.  No internet.  No wifi or bluetooth.

An airgapped hardware wallet communicates with apps using QR codes.

The benefit of using an airgapped device is that it has no connection to the internet, which means hackers can't reach your keys, which means hackers can't steal your coins.  And the benefit of using an airgapped hardware wallet with a large screen is that it shows you what you're signing.

ok wow that's really cool! thanks for the nice explanation.

Aside from Ledger reputation and history, cheapest Ledger HW on it's official website is $79[1]. I also think the page doesn't include tax and shipping fee, although it's at normal price. On a side note, you could build DIY Jade (based on Blockstream Jade[2]) which cost less[3] if you don't mind less feature.

i know it's not recommended but i was looking at ledgers on ebay. but they claimed they were "new". but i think i like the idea of using an opensource software and hardware like the yahboom better!