It is impossible now to access Bitcointalk with TOR

[ranochigo]

At least for DDoS by attacker who use Tor network, it can be mitigated by enabling PoW feature.

Only for onion service though. Forum would have to have a onion version and Tor users have to surf using that only.

In general, for the clearnet version, CloudFlare would still be a necessity. For VPN users, CloudFlare challenge probably wouldn't be too much of a difficulty for them. They aren't abused as badly, but I'm not sure if CloudFlare specifically labels them (I know they do for Tor). Saw your quote as well, I guess we wouldn't be shifting away from CloudFlare any time soon.

[ABCbits]

At least for DDoS by attacker who use Tor network, it can be mitigated by enabling PoW feature.

Only for onion service though. Forum would have to have a onion version and Tor users have to surf using that only.

That's true. I simply mentioned it since CloudFlare already support alt-svc, where currently Tor Browser user actually visit .onion when they access this forum.

[Lucius]

At least for DDoS by attacker who use Tor network, it can be mitigated by enabling PoW feature.

Only for onion service though. Forum would have to have a onion version and Tor users have to surf using that only.

How demanding is it to make an onion version of the forum? Considering that these attacks last longer and longer, it would be really good to have an onion version that, if I understood correctly, would be resistant to such attacks.

[KingsDen]

At least for DDoS by attacker who use Tor network, it can be mitigated by enabling PoW feature.

Only for onion service though. Forum would have to have a onion version and Tor users have to surf using that only.

How demanding is it to make an onion version of the forum? Considering that these attacks last longer and longer, it would be really good to have an onion version that, if I understood correctly, would be resistant to such attacks.

Onion version of the forum can only guarantee anonymity but will still be venerable of DDoS attack to an extent.
Again, I don't think that theymos will buy the idea because of the reputation of the forum. Having an onion version might take the government's eyes to the forum and some kind of legal compliances would be required.
Besides, running an onion version of the forum will require some more resources to reconfigure the server and secure same against attacks. I don't think we are committed to all these now.

[ranochigo]

How demanding is it to make an onion version of the forum? Considering that these attacks last longer and longer, it would be really good to have an onion version that, if I understood correctly, would be resistant to such attacks.

Not very. Onion sites are vulnerable to DDOS in a similar fashion by exhausting its resources.

Again, I don't think that theymos will buy the idea because of the reputation of the forum. Having an onion version might take the government's eyes to the forum and some kind of legal compliances would be required.

It is not illegal, to my knowledge for sites to host onion mirrors. Generally, most of the prominent websites that does this does not have to comply with any additional regulations. In fact, if a government sanctions them for doing so, then I would think it'll be a red flag for the forum.

Besides, running an onion version of the forum will require some more resources to reconfigure the server and secure same against attacks. I don't think we are committed to all these now.

It wouldn't be as difficult, after all you'll just be running a mirror that serves content over Tor. My impression previously was that they didn't have a good way to rate limit and restrict certain identities. I recall this being mentioned a long time ago, but please CMIIW.

CF does it better over clearnet, albeit being a big PITA for Tor users with captchas. As mentioned, CF can already serve content within Tor (alt-svc mentioned by ABCbits) which is why there isn't usually captchas until the site gets attacked.

If PoW with Tor works, I think having a dedicated onion site without CloudFlare but with PoW would be a possibility.

[SamReomo]

I don't know it will help or not but you may try the Tor settings that I have shared in one of my threads. I used Tor to visit the forum when it was having severe issues and that time it helped me to browse the forum.

I thought to make a post to help others too and this is the thread I created where I showed the steps with which Tor worked for me.

You may try those settings mentioned in that thread and who knows it might solve your issue.

[Lucius]

Onion version of the forum can only guarantee anonymity but will still be venerable of DDoS attack to an extent.
Again, I don't think that theymos will buy the idea because of the reputation of the forum. Having an onion version might take the government's eyes to the forum and some kind of legal compliances would be required.
~snip~

You mean the same government agencies that also have their own onion versions? If we go in that direction, maybe Tor and VPN should be banned due to the reputation of the forum - only then would we lose at least 50% of members overnight... because in some (for the forum) important countries this forum is banned.

So that I don't seem like I'm talking nonsense, here's a link to an interesting onion site -> Link

[NotATether]

Maybe you can use the 'Captcha bypass code' feature (https://bitcointalk.org/captcha_code.php) when logging in to Bitcointalk again.

I also tried using the Tor Browser to post on Bitcointalk, which is relatively smooth.

Logging in is not the issue that Royse777 is talking about. That is using reCaptcha, for which there is already a workaround but this one that OP is referring to specifically is when you try to open any page on the forum, but you can't because you see a Cloudflare screen that never goes away, even if you complete the captcha 10 different times.

The Cloudflare blocks are IP-based. Doesn't stop them from banning all tor exit nodes though.

[AB de Royse777]

Logging in is not the issue that Royse777 is talking about. That is using reCaptcha, for which there is already a workaround but this one that OP is referring to specifically is when you try to open any page on the forum, but you can't because you see a Cloudflare screen that never goes away, even if you complete the captcha 10 different times.

The Cloudflare blocks are IP-based. Doesn't stop them from banning all tor exit nodes though.

Yes you are correct. This is the only reason for me from last a few days I am not regularly online after coming back from hospital. I really don't feel comfortable to use a VPN which I am using now :-(

[Husna QA]

Logging in is not the issue that Royse777 is talking about. That is using reCaptcha, for which there is already a workaround but this one that OP is referring to specifically is when you try to open any page on the forum, but you can't because you see a Cloudflare screen that never goes away, even if you complete the captcha 10 different times.

The Cloudflare blocks are IP-based. Doesn't stop them from banning all tor exit nodes though.

Thanks for the correction. It seems that is the problem that Royse experienced some time ago.

Is IP blocking by Cloudflare related to the following?

Due to the behavior of some individuals using the Tor network (spammers, distributors of malware, attackers), the IP addresses of Tor exit nodes may earn a bad reputation, elevating their Cloudflare threat score.

Our basic protection level issues challenges to visitors whose IP address has a high threat score, depending on the level chosen by the Cloudflare customer.

[Shishir99]

Yes you are correct. This is the only reason for me from last a few days I am not regularly online after coming back from hospital. I really don't feel comfortable to use a VPN which I am using now :-(

Do you still have the same issue? I remember trying to access the forum using a regular browser and I was not able to access the forum due to Cloudflare verifications. So, when I saw your thread, I was saying to myself that it was not only you and not only for Tor users. Some other users also had the same issue. I just tried Tor to access the forum and it worked well.

BTW, are you feeling good now? Sorry, I didn't know you were sick.

[ranochigo]

Thanks for the correction. It seems that is the problem that Royse experienced some time ago.

Is IP blocking by Cloudflare related to the following?

Due to the behavior of some individuals using the Tor network (spammers, distributors of malware, attackers), the IP addresses of Tor exit nodes may earn a bad reputation, elevating their Cloudflare threat score.

Our basic protection level issues challenges to visitors whose IP address has a high threat score, depending on the level chosen by the Cloudflare customer.

Not for bitcointalk I believe. We already use Tor routing which means for the basic protection level on CloudFlare, we doesn't require a CAPTCHA challenge. The traffic goes straight to the CloudFlare Onion address. The CAPTCHA re-appears when you have an elevated protection level.

If your site doesn't have the CF onion routing function enabled, then it would go through the exit node and this behavior would be normal.

[AB de Royse777]

Do you still have the same issue?

The same issue still continues. I guess now I need to get used to with VPN. It's the last thing I wanted but to maintain the business, from the responsibility I am taking the risk otherwise I would take a break from Bitcointalk until the DF thing was settled.

Not for bitcointalk I believe. We already use Tor routing which means for the basic protection level on CloudFlare, we doesn't require a CAPTCHA challenge. The traffic goes straight to the CloudFlare Onion address. The CAPTCHA re-appears when you have an elevated protection level.

If your site doesn't have the CF onion routing function enabled, then it would go through the exit node and this behavior would be normal.

I do not understand technology that much, Most of the time it brings the page without the hummin verification section of the page, like you can see in the below image.

The loading gif image continues...

[ranochigo]

I do not understand technology that much, Most of the time it brings the page without the hummin verification section of the page, like you can see in the below image.

What version or variant of Tor browser are you using? In my experience using Tor browser, I haven't encountered the CF verification unless the website is experiencing significant load.

[AB de Royse777]

I do not understand technology that much, Most of the time it brings the page without the hummin verification section of the page, like you can see in the below image.

What version or variant of Tor browser are you using? In my experience using Tor browser, I haven't encountered the CF verification unless the website is experiencing significant load.

Version 13.5.1 (64-bit)
According to the version information, this is the latest version.

[ranochigo]

Version 13.5.1 (64-bit)
According to the version information, this is the latest version.

Interesting. If changing the Tor circuit doesn't help, then it might just be that your browser isn't routing bitcointalk through CloudFlare's Onion servers. My loading speeds are much faster when it is routed through CloudFlare's onion.

[Lucius]

Yes you are correct. This is the only reason for me from last a few days I am not regularly online after coming back from hospital. I really don't feel comfortable to use a VPN which I am using now :-(

I understand your concern, but when you're already using a VPN, you have to accept that this is the highest level of privacy you can currently achieve. If you're worried that "someone" could get your real IP address that way (which is quite possible), you should know that even Tor won't protect you if powerful enough three-letter agencies target you.

Do you still have the same issue?

The same issue still continues.
~snip~

That's really strange, because apparently I and everyone else have had no problems accessing the forum via Tor since the attack stopped.

Interesting. If changing the Tor circuit doesn't help, then it might just be that your browser isn't routing bitcointalk through CloudFlare's Onion servers. My loading speeds are much faster when it is routed through CloudFlare's onion.

Can you explain in a little more detail how to see through which CF servers the traffic goes - and are there any settings that @AB de Royse777 can try to overcome the problem?

[AB de Royse777]

Yes you are correct. This is the only reason for me from last a few days I am not regularly online after coming back from hospital. I really don't feel comfortable to use a VPN which I am using now :-(

I understand your concern, but when you're already using a VPN, you have to accept that this is the highest level of privacy you can currently achieve. If you're worried that "someone" could get your real IP address that way (which is quite possible), you should know that even Tor won't protect you if powerful enough three-letter agencies target you.

I know they can do anything they want but all we can is to make their job harder.

Interesting. If changing the Tor circuit doesn't help, then it might just be that your browser isn't routing bitcointalk through CloudFlare's Onion servers. My loading speeds are much faster when it is routed through CloudFlare's onion.

Can you explain in a little more detail how to see through which CF servers the traffic goes - and are there any settings that @AB de Royse777 can try to overcome the problem?

Maybe I will try to reset my computer, the entire windows just to be sure that any other application is not blocking anything. Before that I need to find some free time :-D

[Shishir99]

Version 13.5.1 (64-bit)
According to the version information, this is the latest version.

I am also using the same version and it works fine every time.
Do you have another device? If so, you may want to try accessing the forum using a different device. Or you may try using a different ISP if you have options. Try switching to the cellular network and see if it helps. If you are on Linux based system, you can try creating another fresh user to check if it helps. Doing all these troubleshoots may take an hour. But, still better than using a VPN since it cannot be a permanent solution.

[ranochigo]

Can you explain in a little more detail how to see through which CF servers the traffic goes - and are there any settings that @AB de Royse777 can try to overcome the problem?

You should be able to see the alt-svc header in the get request for the initial load of Bitcointalk.org. This should be automatic and I'm not aware of any settings that can overwrite this. If you're consistently encountering that CAPTCHA challenge, then I'm inclined to think that it would be some other issues. Without knowing how exactly it is setup, I'm afraid I can't provide much inputs over here.

Clearing cache, refreshing circuit and changing the security level are things that I would recommend trying.