Serious Questions About Shuffle.com (Launched by FTX Employee)

[Wapfika]

This concern is only valid if Noah himself is the one who committed fraud but for a normal employee of a business that once provide a legit service this accusation is totally unfair just because he work on FTX.

So far Shuffle doesn’t have any existing scam accusation and provides solid service to all its customers. I think it’s not a big deal his background if his current company is operating well. If Shuffle was owned by SBF then I will agree that this company needs a thorough investigation.

[JollyGood]

I think most people would probably agree with you. What compounds the perspective even further is that there were zero allegations made in the OP about even the slightest direct impropriety conducted by the ex-employee while working at FTX.

It seems the OP cited the fact that some employees of the casino are giving their full names and instead use alias (as well as the ex-employee of FTX connection) as a major concern. That might have been prominent when the Shuffle casino started but before reading this thread how many people knew about the connection?

In my opinion, until or unless there are serious scam allegations made against them I would not look too much in to what the OP has stated.

This concern is only valid if Noah himself is the one who committed fraud but for a normal employee of a business that once provide a legit service this accusation is totally unfair just because he work on FTX.

So far Shuffle doesn’t have any existing scam accusation and provides solid service to all its customers. I think it’s not a big deal his background if his current company is operating well. If Shuffle was owned by SBF then I will agree that this company needs a thorough investigation.

[Little Mouse]

but before reading this thread how many people knew about the connection?

It was never a secret. Noah himself has talked about this in a video. He left FTX in 2021 while FTX issue happened on 2022.

[justincase78]

In summary,


OP made a accusation against the founder of Shuffle.com namely Noah in the regard of "potential risks". These claims are obviously silly to any user that has read the replies because every single person has come to the same logistical conclusion of "it was a legitimate company when he was working there." I mean, it at least APPEARED to be. That's how a multi billion dollar scam works. It appears to be legit to even most core employees, not just the hundreds of thousands of users that are actually pretty damn smart, unless they were in on it. The scam was really fucking good, it tricked plenty of people with IQs triple of mine. That's why it stole billions!!!


Noah has no history of doing anything SBF did or anything of the sense so Noahs accusation holds 0 weight.



Secondly,



OP made a accusation against "Cam" at Shuffle.com regarding unethical business practices that he has failed to provide any evidence for.



So,



Unless OP gives concrete proof of his accusations against Cam @ Shuffle.com, this thread should stop being replied to and bumped because there are more important things that require attentions in the Scam Accusations section. There's nothing to debate.

[Stalker22]

If Shuffle.com is confident in its operations and the behavior of its staff, then there should be no hesitation in continuing this discussion until all concerns are satisfactorily addressed.

And where did you get the impression this is a productive place for such a discussion? This is the "Scam Accusations" section, not a freaking tea party.  Is there an evidence of actual scam?

Do you want me to share here conversations of Cam? I will be gladly to do so, the entire community is beyond depressed of lovely Cam.

You are not entitled to speak on behalf of the "entire" community.

[JollyGood]

I understand it was never a secret but it was also never a problem either for those that knew about it. It was never (to my knowledge) even discussed as a possible reason for others to avoid using Shuffle and members were never advised to take precautions before.

Yet for some unknown reason the OP decided to create this thread with an extensive amount of text and detail to advise anybody reading it about the possible dangers of using the Shuffle website.

He deliberately has not explained what drove him to create this thread yet is asking for transparency from the Shuffle team.

but before reading this thread how many people knew about the connection?

It was never a secret. Noah himself has talked about this in a video. He left FTX in 2021 while FTX issue happened on 2022.

[honestworld]

Let's be clear: the purpose of this thread is not to be dismissed or locked just because uncomfortable truths are being discussed. The questions raised here are far from resolved, and it’s important to address them rather than sweep them under the rug.

Regarding Cam, the concern is not baseless speculation but a reflection of how his actions have been perceived by those who have interacted with him. His apparent disregard for the well-being of players, particularly those struggling with addiction, is more than just a minor issue—it’s a significant ethical concern. The fact that these behaviors are being brought to light suggests that there is a real issue here, not something to be casually dismissed.

Rather than attempting to shut down the discussion, I would expect Shuffle.com, and those defending it, to welcome a thorough investigation and a transparent resolution. If Cam’s actions are beyond reproach, then there should be no fear in addressing these concerns head-on and providing the necessary evidence to clear his name. However, if these allegations have merit, it is imperative that they are addressed, and appropriate actions are taken to prevent any further harm.

Locking this thread without resolving these issues would be a disservice to the community and would only raise more questions about what’s being hidden. Let’s focus on transparency, accountability, and ensuring that those in positions of power within the crypto gambling space are held to the highest ethical standards.

If Shuffle.com is confident in its operations and the behavior of its staff, then there should be no hesitation in continuing this discussion until all concerns are satisfactorily addressed.

Do you want me to share here conversations of Cam? I will be gladly to do so, the entire community is beyond depressed of lovely Cam.

If you can provide the conversation, it'll be very much appreciated, so ndumm [or perhaps cam himself, though he's been inactive for a while now] can give their insight about this

In fact, a sad player (and partner) spoke to him yesterday right after he deleted him He will probably be very mad at me for sharing this but hey, at crypto(casinos) you can do anything you want right?

The funny par,t my friend. Cam is never inactive - in fact Cam sees everything and is aways online only he choses of course hen to respond at his comfortable safe place. The part that worries me the most is that you are defending somebody you absolutely don't know a thing about - please don't get me wrong I'm only here to protect people against anything that triest to take advantage.

This doesn't directly confirms the addiction part (it does a bit) but I'm just curious about your opinion.

https://i.ibb.co/gP4Zdrq/photo-2024-08-13-23-07-20.jpg

There is a screenshot of the conversation and here a transcript:

Cam Shuffle:

Not trying to dismiss your feelings but I have so many players pissed off at their current casino asking to transfer to Shuffle I can’t keep up.
-
If you want to be denied lossback when you’re down and talk to a robot you could try Stake.
-
Or if you want to be blatantly scammed, have your withdrawals locked, and talk to a host who barely speaks English you could try bcgame.
-
are these dissatisfied players in the room with us?

You:
No it are actually all the people who give you the feeling Shuffle is the best and you are the best host ever because they will do anything to get anything because their dried out wallet isn’t giving even a blink of hope anymore.
-
Most of those you speak daily, only of course you have no clue how it goes within the community because you only chose to feed your ego.
-
That’s what we call a poker-face and I’m absolutely not talking about myself.

[honestworld]

If Shuffle.com is confident in its operations and the behavior of its staff, then there should be no hesitation in continuing this discussion until all concerns are satisfactorily addressed.

And where did you get the impression this is a productive place for such a discussion? This is the "Scam Accusations" section, not a freaking tea party.  Is there an evidence of actual scam?

Do you want me to share here conversations of Cam? I will be gladly to do so, the entire community is beyond depressed of lovely Cam.

You are not entitled to speak on behalf of the "entire" community.

Indeed, Stalker, this isn't a damn tea party—these are people's lives being ruined. Gambling (addiction) destroys families, livelihoods, and futures. When individuals like Cam, who represent Shuffle.com, show a blatant disregard for the well-being of players, it goes beyond a simple business transaction. It becomes a moral issue that affects real people in devastating ways.

While you may dismiss this as a discussion unfit for the "Scam Accusations" section, the reality is that unethical practices can be just as harmful as outright scams. When staff members treat people with disrespect, mock their struggles, and ignore the consequences of their actions, it’s not just bad customer service—it’s a serious breach of trust and responsibility.

If you think this doesn’t belong here, perhaps you need to reassess what qualifies as a legitimate concern. The community deserves better, and we won’t be silenced just because some find it uncomfortable to confront these issues head-on.

Don't you agree?

[honestworld]

In summary,


OP made a accusation against the founder of Shuffle.com namely Noah in the regard of "potential risks". These claims are obviously silly to any user that has read the replies because every single person has come to the same logistical conclusion of "it was a legitimate company when he was working there." I mean, it at least APPEARED to be. That's how a multi billion dollar scam works. It appears to be legit to even most core employees, not just the hundreds of thousands of users that are actually pretty damn smart, unless they were in on it. The scam was really fucking good, it tricked plenty of people with IQs triple of mine. That's why it stole billions!!!


Noah has no history of doing anything SBF did or anything of the sense so Noahs accusation holds 0 weight.



Secondly,



OP made a accusation against "Cam" at Shuffle.com regarding unethical business practices that he has failed to provide any evidence for.



So,



Unless OP gives concrete proof of his accusations against Cam @ Shuffle.com, this thread should stop being replied to and bumped because there are more important things that require attentions in the Scam Accusations section. There's nothing to debate.

Let's clarify a few things here.

First, it's important to understand that the intention behind raising these concerns isn't to hurl baseless accusations or discredit anyone without cause. The aim is to ensure that we, as a community, are vigilant and proactive in assessing potential risks, especially given the history of the industry we’re dealing with. The collapse of FTX serves as a stark reminder that what appears legitimate on the surface can have deep-seated issues lurking beneath. It's not about accusing Noah of being another SBF, but rather ensuring that due diligence is performed so that we don't find ourselves blindsided again.

Noah may very well be an upstanding individual with no history of wrongdoing. The point isn’t to say he’s guilty of anything, but to emphasize the need for transparency and accountability in an industry that has seen its fair share of deceit. Even if Noah was unaware of any fraudulent activities at FTX, it’s still prudent for us to scrutinize the practices of any new venture he’s involved in—especially one in a highly unregulated and risky sector like online gambling.

Now, regarding Cam at Shuffle.com, my concerns aren't accusations in the traditional sense but rather red flags that need further examination. The lack of transparency and the behavior reported by some users suggest that there could be deeper issues that merit attention. This isn’t about proving guilt right here, right now—it's about raising awareness so that we all take a closer look. If there’s nothing to hide, then these concerns should be easy to address and dispel.

And let’s be very clear about one thing: in an industry like crypto where regulations are minimal at best and often non-existent, asking tough questions isn’t just a precaution—it’s a necessity. We’re dealing with a space where companies can operate with near-total impunity, and where the balance of power is heavily tilted in favor of the casino operators. They hold all the cards, and if they choose to act unethically, there’s little to nothing stopping them.

So, I ask you—what harm is there in demanding transparency? What’s wrong with wanting to ensure that those who hold such immense power in this industry are acting in good faith? This isn’t about trying to bring someone down; it’s about protecting ourselves and our community from the very real risks that come with unchecked power. If Shuffle.com is as above-board as some claim, then these questions should be welcomed, not dismissed.

This thread isn’t just about debating who’s right or wrong; it’s about ensuring we all have the full picture before dismissing potential issues. The crypto space has seen too many instances where lack of oversight led to catastrophic outcomes. Let's not fall into the trap of complacency.

If this discussion helps even one person avoid a bad situation, then it's worth continuing. I urge everyone to remain open-minded and to keep this conversation going until all concerns are fully addressed and resolved. Transparency and accountability should never be viewed as unnecessary, especially in this space.

[honestworld]

I understand it was never a secret but it was also never a problem either for those that knew about it. It was never (to my knowledge) even discussed as a possible reason for others to avoid using Shuffle and members were never advised to take precautions before.

Yet for some unknown reason the OP decided to create this thread with an extensive amount of text and detail to advise anybody reading it about the possible dangers of using the Shuffle website.

He deliberately has not explained what drove him to create this thread yet is asking for transparency from the Shuffle team.

but before reading this thread how many people knew about the connection?

It was never a secret. Noah himself has talked about this in a video. He left FTX in 2021 while FTX issue happened on 2022.

The reason this thread exists is simple: due diligence. Just because something wasn’t a problem before doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be scrutinized now, especially in an industry as volatile as crypto. My goal is to ensure transparency and protect the community. If raising concerns about potential risks and demanding accountability makes you uncomfortable, then perhaps that says more about the situation than the thread itself. Transparency goes both ways.

[honestworld]

Update: Brett, Cam’s Brother, and His Role at Shuffle

It has come to my attention that another key figure at Shuffle.com, Brett, is Cam's brother. Brett also holds a significant role within the company, and unfortunately, his behavior seems to mirror that of Cam, raising additional concerns about the company’s overall approach to customer interaction and community management.

In a recent review of conversations, Brett displayed a pattern of dismissiveness and a lack of accountability when handling customer issues. For instance:

- Aggressive and Dismissive Behavior: Brett, like Cam, appears to dismiss user concerns without providing adequate reasoning. In one interaction, Brett muted a user for 30 days but refused to provide a clear explanation or retrieve chat logs to justify the action, stating, "I am the one who decides whether or not something is justified to mute a player and today I decided to mute him." When pressed for screenshots or further explanation, Brett chose to disengage, saying he had "work to get done."

- Failure to Address Community Concerns: Brett also failed to properly address community feedback, leading to confusion and dissatisfaction among users. When the chat community questioned why a user was muted, Brett did not provide clarity or engage meaningfully, which only worsened the situation.

These interactions suggest a troubling culture within Shuffle, where dismissiveness and a lack of transparency are not isolated incidents but rather part of a broader pattern among key personnel. This is particularly concerning when both Cam and Brett are in positions of influence, as it raises questions about the overall management and ethical standards of the company.

Citations:

- "I am the one who decides whether or not something is justified to mute a player and today I decided to mute him." (Message ID 569611)
- "I have players to attend to and work to get done." (Message ID 569626)

[ndumm]

Alright, I know who you are after your latest message, and I no longer believe that you're acting with good intentions for the community. This thread exists to attempt to tarnish Shuffle's reputation because you are regularly muted for being incredibly toxic to our staff, our platform and our players.

Brett doesn't owe you any response after some of the things I've seen you say about and to him. Please either send some form of proof that any of our hosts have not acted in the interest of responsible gambling, or close the thread. This will be my last reply, I would recommend that no one else in this thread give any more time to this guy until he provides some form of indisputable proof (which I'm confident won't come, because our hosts take player welfare incredibly seriously).

 

[honestworld]

Alright, I know who you are after your latest message, and I no longer believe that you're acting with good intentions for the community. This thread exists to attempt to tarnish Shuffle's reputation because you are regularly muted for being incredibly toxic to our staff, our platform and our players.

Brett doesn't owe you any response after some of the things I've seen you say about and to him. Please either send some form of proof that any of our hosts have not acted in the interest of responsible gambling, or close the thread. This will be my last reply, I would recommend that no one else in this thread give any more time to this guy until he provides some form of indisputable proof (which I'm confident won't come, because our hosts take player welfare incredibly seriously).

 

If you’re truly the founder of Shuffle, then it’s on you to make sure these concerns are handled with the transparency you talk about. Instead of accusing me of having some hidden agenda, why not show that you’re serious about being open with your community?

And just so we’re clear, I’m not the person you’re accusing here. My goal is to bring up issues that many people in the community have noticed—things that, as the person leading this platform, you should be eager to address, not dismiss.

Your defnsive stance doesn’t really help ease the concerns of those of us who are genuinely worried about Shuffle’s direction. Instead of trying to shut this conversation down, why not engage and actually talk about the specific issues we’ve raised? If Shuffle is as ethical and responsible as you say, there shouldn’t be any problem addressing these concerns openly.

As the founder, you should be leading by example, not dodging accountability. Transparency is not just a word; it should be part of everything your platform does. So rather than closing off this discussion, why not show us the proof that Shuffle is living up to the standards you claim? That would do a lot to show the credibility you’re standing by.

[GucciFlops]

Alright, I know who you are after your latest message, and I no longer believe that you're acting with good intentions for the community. This thread exists to attempt to tarnish Shuffle's reputation because you are regularly muted for being incredibly toxic to our staff, our platform and our players.

Brett doesn't owe you any response after some of the things I've seen you say about and to him. Please either send some form of proof that any of our hosts have not acted in the interest of responsible gambling, or close the thread. This will be my last reply, I would recommend that no one else in this thread give any more time to this guy until he provides some form of indisputable proof (which I'm confident won't come, because our hosts take player welfare incredibly seriously).

 

Not sure how this website even works as I’ve never been on it before but hopefully this is replying directly to Noah.

No, none of this conversation prior to this message I’m writing now has been me.
I could care less about “shuffles reputation” or anytning else that’s been discussed in this thread.  All I want to know is the exact reason that I was given a month long mute for yesterday. When a friend of mine asked him on telegram, he was unable to provide a good reason aside from telling me that “he decides who gets muted” all he continually said was that I have PREVIOUSLY used bad language, or in other words I have “been toxic” in shuffles chat. And you are saying the exact same thing. Which okay, that’s valid. I can’t deny that. BUT. That was previously. I have already been muted for it and it’s over with.. Brett had 0 reason to mute me yesterday which is exactly why when he was asked to provide screenshots of what message got me muted, he refused.. again- none of the messages in the thread have been me prior to this one right here. I like you Noah I like the platform,I watch the stream every single week (even when I have 0 wager for any of the codes, ) I spent 40 hours in Ishans stream last week lol.. I get that I have been “toxic” previously, but I did nothing yesterday to deserve a month long mute. Regardless if you or Brett want to admit that, literally not one single person in chat at the time, (including myself) understood the reason as to why he muted me, and still don’t. My telegram is gucci_flops if you want to send me a message and explain, I would appreciate it. Thanks Noah.

[holydarkness]

[...]I would recommend that no one else in this thread give any more time to this guy until he provides some form of indisputable proof (which I'm confident won't come, because our hosts take player welfare incredibly seriously).[...]

If you don't mind, I'd like to see this thread to its end and every dirty clothes aired, because it became mildly interesting how OP seemed to accidentally put the clothes into a tumble dryer instead of air drying it, and now he's tumbling all over with his previous statements... I mean the laundry.


OP, let's play surgery and dissect your statement thus far. I believe I've thoroughly disinfect my hands with the statement that I am not in any degree involved to Shuffle. I've wear the latex glove and yield a scalpel, and...

First

Let's clarify a few things here.

First, it's important to understand that the intention behind raising these concerns isn't to hurl baseless accusations or discredit anyone without cause. The aim is to ensure that we, as a community, are vigilant and proactive in assessing potential risks, especially given the history of the industry we’re dealing with. The collapse of FTX serves as a stark reminder that what appears legitimate on the surface can have deep-seated issues lurking beneath. It's not about accusing Noah of being another SBF, but rather ensuring that due diligence is performed so that we don't find ourselves blindsided again.

Noah may very well be an upstanding individual with no history of wrongdoing. The point isn’t to say he’s guilty of anything, but to emphasize the need for transparency and accountability in an industry that has seen its fair share of deceit. Even if Noah was unaware of any fraudulent activities at FTX, it’s still prudent for us to scrutinize the practices of any new venture he’s involved in—especially one in a highly unregulated and risky sector like online gambling.

Consulting back to your opening statement,

Serious Questions About Shuffle.com (Launched by Former FTX Employee)

Hello everyone,

I wanted to bring up some serious concerns regarding Shuffle.com, a new platform launched by Noah Dummett, a former employee of FTX. Here are some key points that need your attention, and I’m curious if anyone else has noticed these issues or has additional information:

Background Concerns

1. Noah Dummett's FTX Connection:
   - Noah Dummett, who previously worked at FTX, is behind the launch of Shuffle.com. Given the collapse of FTX and the legal issues surrounding its operations, does anyone else feel uneasy about the integrity and transparency of Shuffle.com?

It called "leading" in court, or in a more common terms, or "to paint someone certain color". You're saying that the point of this thread is not to say he's guilty, rather to emphasize the need of [summarized] us being vigilant, yet the wording on the opening post suggest one should weight the possible risk of integrity and transparency of shuffle for his former employment. Your post above and your opening post has a very different tone.

Second

Next, cam... Cam oh cam... I suddenly wondered what does "cam" stand for.

Cameron? Cambridge? Campbell? Camilo? Camcorder, perhaps?

Speaking about camcorder... which purpose is to record something... do you aware that the forum is being automatically crawled by two different sites made by two extremely prominent members of the forum? As in... recorded, archived, cam...corded, if you wish, so when one delete one post for whatever reason that is, it can easily be dug out.

Such as this one,

I want to add another issue regarding Shuffle.com, specifically related to Cam, one of the key figures operating under an alias. It's come to light that Cam's handling of people, particularly those struggling with gambling addiction, is not only disrespectful but downright harmful.

Gambling addiction is a serious issue that ruins lives and families. A responsible operator would take measures to help mitigate the risks, provide support, and ensure that players are treated with dignity and respect. Unfortunately, this does not seem to be the case with Shuffle.com under Cam's influence. Reports and observations suggest that Cam has shown a blatant disregard for the well-being of players, prioritizing profit over people. Shockingly, it almost appears as though Cam takes pleasure in the suffering of those affected by addiction, which is more than deeply disrespectful – it is morally reprehensible.[...]

of which prompt me to chase this case as I treat neglect to gambling addiction as a very serious matter, and which made me inquire you to provide supporting evidence, of which after several deflection [by asking me to provide proof that your allegation is wrong instead of you providing the evidence for your statement], you said that,

[...]
Do you want me to share here conversations of Cam? I will be gladly to do so, the entire community is beyond depressed of lovely Cam.

In fact, a sad player (and partner) spoke to him yesterday right after he deleted him He will probably be very mad at me for sharing this but hey, at crypto(casinos) you can do anything you want right?

The funny par,t my friend. Cam is never inactive - in fact Cam sees everything and is aways online only he choses of course hen to respond at his comfortable safe place. The part that worries me the most is that you are defending somebody you absolutely don't know a thing about - please don't get me wrong I'm only here to protect people against anything that triest to take advantage.

This doesn't directly confirms the addiction part (it does a bit) but I'm just curious about your opinion.

[image snip]

There is a screenshot of the conversation and here a transcript:[...]

I saved the screenshot in my gallery for future reference if needed. That screenshot though, indeed, doesn't confirm the addiction part. So perhaps you can help us with a better proof?

You alleged Cam of Shuffle handling people with gambling addiction in disrespectful manner, hinting an abuse of responsible gambling act, the proof so far is him ranting and bad mouthing about other casinos, of which... though I find it a bit mean to rant as such, barely covers the point you initially tried to raise [and later deleted] where he failed to address gambling addiction situation.

I'll really appreciate a better evidence. Thank you.

Third

Update: Brett, Cam’s Brother, and His Role at Shuffle

It has come to my attention that another key figure at Shuffle.com, Brett, is Cam's brother. Brett also holds a significant role within the company, and unfortunately, his behavior seems to mirror that of Cam, raising additional concerns about the company’s overall approach to customer interaction and community management.[...]

I thought,

[...]

2. Anonymous Key Personnel:
   - There are key individuals at Shuffle.com using aliases, such as "Cam" and "Brett." It’s been suggested that "Cam" knows Noah from earlier days, and both he and "Brett" are operating under false names. Has anyone else encountered these individuals or have any insight into why they might be using pseudonyms?

[...]

1. Demand Transparency:
   - Should we as a community demand full transparency about the identities of the key personnel at Shuffle.com and their roles within the company?[...]

Which one is it? They're not transparent enough that should raise a degree of suspicion or they're [apparently] way beyond transparent that you know Brett and Cam are brothers?

Still about Brett, and this is the continuation of your post I snipped above about him,

[...]

In a recent review of conversations, Brett displayed a pattern of dismissiveness and a lack of accountability when handling customer issues. For instance:

- Aggressive and Dismissive Behavior: Brett, like Cam, appears to dismiss user concerns without providing adequate reasoning. In one interaction, Brett muted a user for 30 days but refused to provide a clear explanation or retrieve chat logs to justify the action, stating, "I am the one who decides whether or not something is justified to mute a player and today I decided to mute him." When pressed for screenshots or further explanation, Brett chose to disengage, saying he had "work to get done."

- Failure to Address Community Concerns: Brett also failed to properly address community feedback, leading to confusion and dissatisfaction among users. When the chat community questioned why a user was muted, Brett did not provide clarity or engage meaningfully, which only worsened the situation.

These interactions suggest a troubling culture within Shuffle, where dismissiveness and a lack of transparency are not isolated incidents but rather part of a broader pattern among key personnel. This is particularly concerning when both Cam and Brett are in positions of influence, as it raises questions about the overall management and ethical standards of the company.

Citations:

- "I am the one who decides whether or not something is justified to mute a player and today I decided to mute him." (Message ID 569611)
- "I have players to attend to and work to get done." (Message ID 569626)

How is this concerning? If any, the impression I get is that he does his work very greatly that I think he needs a raise [ndumm, in case you read this]. I mean, you literally shows snippets where he weeded out, what I'll strongly assume as, spammers and abusers to ensure the chatbox is clean, and he attends to players.

Where is the part that he does concerning matters that's detrimental and worth questioning Shuffle's overall integrity for employing such key employee?

And oh, four,

The part that worries me the most is that you are defending somebody you absolutely don't know a thing about - please don't get me wrong I'm only here to protect people against anything that triest to take advantage.[...]

Risking to sound extremely redundant, worry not, darling, I am not "defending somebody I absolutely don't know a thing about", I am inquiring a proof of allegation towards someone [now two people]. I'll be very happy if you can revert with better proof to support your allegation.