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Author Topic: The Road to $15 Trillion  (Read 324 times)
legiteum (OP)
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August 13, 2024, 06:05:27 AM
 #1

The digital currency business is worth around $1.5 trillion today. I predict that in 10 years it will be worth 10 times what it is today: 15 trillion dollars.

The question everybody here needs to ask themselves is: do you want to be part of that future, or not?

Getting to $15 trillion is going to require different thinking than the original Bitcoin and crypto community is used to. This is a future where almost all citizens in the developed world posses digital currencies that they use for both daily payments and longer-term speculation. One where there is a vibrant market for thousands of meme currencies, and memes come and go with fashion every year.

And it's a world were consumers find a safe and easy and convenient mechanism for buying into the latest meme or an established name like Bitcoin.

Many in the business today are going to find the requirements of "mainstream" consumers baffling, annoying, or even infuriating. What you thought was good will be bad, and what you thought was bad will be good.

In this future, players in the digital currency market will either evolve or get left behind. Bitcoin has its roots in the cyberpunk-libertarianish-grey-market-quasi-criminal realm. It's a fascinating, tantalizing, exciting realm for several million people around the world.

But it's also terrifying for several billion people around the world, who aren't interested in risking their life savings to things that are unsafe and untested and clunky. And they have no interest in fighting their government, or doing something that could be considered illegal.

The blockchain architecture was designed around the notion of perhaps dozens of transactions per second, and was made to be intentionally slow and expensive. In the future, there will be millions of digital currency transactions per second worldwide, and tens of billions of transactions per day. There will need to be other architectures besides blockchain to handle that.

The original crypto community hated the government, and hates any concept of regulations. They started their movement as explicitly "anti-government". Average consumers love regulations and government protections because it makes things safe for them without needing to think about it.

The original crypto community focused on changing the world and ending the idea of central banks and central governments.  Average consumers want their Social Security check to come when they retire, and they like the protection from crime their government gives them.

The original crypto community fought against things like centralized stores of your assets--not your keys, not your coins, they said. Average consumers want their wealth to be stored in a financial institution, because they want to pay somebody else to guard it, not hide it on their own person.

Average consumers want their small transactions to occur without an exchange of identity--like what digital currencies give them; but they want their big money stored in their own name so it's safe.

In short, the $15 trillion dollar future is about digital currency going after the mainstream of people in a hurry, people in other professions besides technology, people who don't care about politics or cyberpunk lore, people who are happy with the status quo of their job, their bank and their government.

This future won't be for everybody, and there is already quite a large market--today's $1.5 trillion--for those who do not want to evolve to divide up.

The $15 trillion dollar market will be for those who are willing to think outside of their technical, ideological and political bubble--and embrace the mainstream.


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August 13, 2024, 06:17:43 AM
 #2

The blockchain architecture was designed around the notion of perhaps dozens of transactions per second, and was made to be intentionally slow and expensive.
I believe you're referring to Bitcoin here. It is designed to be secure and require PoW to add new blocks to the chain, making it immutable as layers and layers of blocked are stacked on each other. It was designed to keep transactions at an average duration and the fees are determined by the network.

The original crypto community focused on changing the world and ending the idea of central banks and central governments.  Average consumers want their Social Security check to come when they retire, and they like the protection from crime their government gives them.
You are including your own rhetoric here. Bitcoiners do not want to end the idea of central banks or governments and replace that. We just want an outlet to the system. Bitcoiners are also still part of the system and pay taxes so get every protection the government gives.

The original crypto community fought against things like centralized stores of your assets--not your keys, not your coins, they said. Average consumers want their wealth to be stored in a financial institution, because they want to pay somebody else to guard it, not hide it on their own person.
If decentralization is not for you, you have a choice of almost every existing system in the world to choose from, surely the one truely decentralized system doesn't need to change for you to have "another" centralized institution. There's a bank down your street, use that.

Average consumers want their small transactions to occur without an exchange of identity--like what digital currencies give them; but they want their big money stored in their own name so it's safe.
Use CBDCs or one of the altcoins that has instant transactions.

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August 13, 2024, 06:32:15 AM
 #3

$15 trillion in 10 years sounds like a realistic prediction to me. In that case, Bitcoin is likely to cost around $600k, and I don't think that's unfathomable.
But as for the rest, I believe we shouldn't dwell too much on what Bitcoin used to be like or what the early crypto community was like. Honestly, I think that with that antigovernmental sentiment, Bitcoin wouldn't have reached its current heights, and the crypto market would have remained tiny. It's bridging the gap and a lot of interest in Bitcoin as an investment that brought us to $1.5 trillion market capitalization, and it's more of the same approach that can bring us to $15 trillion, in my opinion.
Perhaps you're making the same point, op, but I'm not sure about that.

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August 13, 2024, 07:07:06 AM
Last edit: August 13, 2024, 07:20:43 AM by anarkiboy
 #4

The digital currency business is worth around $1.5 trillion today. I predict that in 10 years it will be worth 10 times what it is today: 15 trillion dollars.

But why ? what are you basing your prediction on ? feeling ?

Current market cap of Bitcoin is around $1.2 Trillion, it took 15 years to get here.
You're saying it will increase even faster in shorter time ? where this money will come from ? any sources you can point to validate this claims ?

All I see is another dreamer with no financial background just pointing finger at charts.
I think this prediction (more like a wish) is very unrealistic.

If we're going to write a letter to Santa Clause, make it $100 Trillion.  Wink

Average consumers want their small transactions to occur without an exchange of identity--like what digital currencies give them; but they want their big money stored in their own name so it's safe.

Did you do a public survey ? if not, then your claim has zero value.
People who own substantial amounts of money want privacy. They don't want anyone, including government to know how much they've got.
I did not make survey because it's written in history of banking, Swiss accounts back in the day and other safe haven places today are a proof that people value privacy the most when it comes to storing their wealth.

Keep it real, you're just a late comer that want to 10x and have fun with FIAT.
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August 13, 2024, 07:14:05 AM
 #5

The digital currency business is worth around $1.5 trillion today. I predict that in 10 years it will be worth 10 times what it is today: 15 trillion dollars.

The question everybody here needs to ask themselves is: do you want to be part of that future, or not?

Getting to $15 trillion is going to require different thinking than the original Bitcoin and crypto community is used to. This is a future where almost all citizens in the developed world posses digital currencies that they use for both daily payments and longer-term speculation.
Where do you place those ardent bitcoiners from the developing world that currently makes up the whole bitcoin ecosystem today. Because for what it is not only the developed world that makes up that $1.5trillion valued of digital currency in today's world.

Quote
But it's also terrifying for several billion people around the world, who aren't interested in risking their life savings to things that are unsafe and untested and clunky. And they have no interest in fighting their government, or doing something that could be considered illegal.
Yesterday some people thought that way too but today they are using bitcoin as an alternative means for their savings again inflation.
I sternly believe that curiosity and  knowledge is what raises people's interest in getting involve in anything which would mean that the lack of interest of the billions of persons in the world that are yet to embrace the bitcoin idea are doing so out of ignorance with a lack of curiosity base on whatever fallacy they would have been fed by the anti-bitcoinists but what is certain is that in as much as bitcoin continue to exist to many more decades to come a lot of those folks would eventually gain an interest.

To perception that taking an interest into bitcoin is akin to fighting the government is laughable and entails in brighter view the extend of their ignorance. Bitcoin is but an alternative digital currency with it's own blockchain (transparent for all to view) independent of the trust system of centralized finance. Maybe the absence of control on bitcoin by the government is what you're referring referring to fighting the government, but when does making for an alternative becomes a fight?

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legiteum (OP)
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August 13, 2024, 01:32:35 PM
 #6


$15 trillion in 10 years sounds like a realistic prediction to me. In that case, Bitcoin is likely to cost around $600k, and I don't think that's unfathomable.


Perhaps I should have clarified that while I believe the overall digital currency market will hit $15 trillion, I think Bitcoin itself will only be a part of that--and probably not even the majority of it.

So my other prediction is this: in five year's time, Bitcoin will be a minority of the total digital currency market cap (even though it may well be far higher in price than it is now).


If decentralization is not for you, you have a choice of almost every existing system in the world to choose from, surely the one truely decentralized system doesn't need to change for you to have "another" centralized institution. There's a bank down your street, use that.


Bank transactions, including credit card transactions require an exchange of personal information. Most consumers don't want that for small transactions (whereas they very much want this for large transactions so they can be protected by the government---this is a phenomenon I call Anon Paradox--that people want anonymity for "small" money and personal identity for "big" money).



Did you do a public survey ? if not, then your claim has zero value.


My evidence is the way most people use crypto today, which is through an app or broker that stores their account centrally using their personal identity. Consumers are voting with their feet on this one. Whereas many here, brave people and early adopters, are content to hide their life savings in a proverbial floor safe, most people keep their life savings in a financial institution under their own name.

Quote

People who own substantial amounts of money want privacy. They don't want anyone, including government to know how much they've got. I did not make survey because it's written in history of banking, Swiss accounts back in the day and other safe haven places today are a proof that people value privacy the most when it comes to storing their wealth.


Yes, they want privacy, but you are talking about two kinds of "privacy" here, and they are very different:

1. Privacy from criminals, marketers, other citizens, the media, and their friends: this is the kind of privacy everybody wants.

2. Privacy from their government such that they can safely engage in illegal activity: this is the kind of privacy that very few people want.

While there is certainly a small (percentage-wise) market for people who want to evade their government, my thesis, based on, well, the history of banking, is that most people don't want that kind of trouble--a "Swiss bank account" is almost synonymous with somebody doing shady things, which is why such accounts had never been more than 1% of the money stored in banks. 99% of people aren't interested in going up against their government.

And look, I get it, most here would say that those 99% of people are wrong and that they really should fear their government, and so on. I voted for Ron Paul for president before many here were even alive. I get the ideology. But that's not the reality of the average developed-world consumer--but that consumer is the force that will get us to $15T. The "Swiss bank account" market is finite, and I think it's fair to say that it's saturated now. Growth is going to come from the mainstream, not doubling down on the fringes.



Where do you place those ardent bitcoiners from the developing world that currently makes up the whole bitcoin ecosystem today. Because for what it is not only the developed world that makes up that $1.5 trillion valued of digital currency in today's world.


You are absolutely right, and I probably used the wrong terminology here. Digital currency is a value for all consumers, no matter where they live.


Quote

Maybe the absence of control on bitcoin by the government is what you're referring referring to fighting the government, but when does making for an alternative becomes a fight?


Almost no product you use on the internet is "controlled by the government". If you use a VPN, it's controlled by the private VPN company, not the government.

What I mean by "fighting the government" is people who wish to hide their money from the government should that government inquire into their finances. In other words, people who are interested in breaking the law in some fashion, usually for tax evasion.

Most people don't want to do that, and my thesis here is that the way we will get to $15T is by addressing the 90% of the market who just want to trade anonymously and safely with their fellow citizens and want to speculate on memes.





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August 13, 2024, 02:09:17 PM
 #7

$15 trillion in 10 years sounds like a realistic prediction to me. In that case, Bitcoin is likely to cost around $600k, and I don't think that's unfathomable. [...]

Even in the bitcoin rainbow chart theory, the lowest price we will get in 2028 (4 years away) per 1 bitcoin is around $161,678 [1]. This price creates more than 2 times the current market capitalization, so it is realistic to see $15 Trillion in the next 10 years even at bitcoin's depressed price. My calculations are still calculations with a small level of hope, i can't imagine how big the market capitalization of bitcoin + altcoins will be in the future if we find crypto becoming mainstream in the future.

[1] https://www.blockchaincenter.net/en/bitcoin-rainbow-chart/

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August 13, 2024, 02:48:17 PM
 #8

The madness that is affecting the world and the more possibilities of a new war, it is difficult to predict what will happen after 10 years, as economic events may affect Bitcoin negatively or positively and lead to major changes in the price in the short term.

Cryptocurrency market cap is a measure of irrelevance. There are many cryptocurrencies, but Bitcoin and Ethereum are the ones that have most of the market cap, in addition to stablecoins.

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August 13, 2024, 02:58:39 PM
 #9

Yes, they want privacy, but you are talking about two kinds of "privacy" here, and they are very different:

1. Privacy from criminals, marketers, other citizens, the media, and their friends: this is the kind of privacy everybody wants.

2. Privacy from their government such that they can safely engage in illegal activity: this is the kind of privacy that very few people want.


Don't you know Government = Criminals ?  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Enjoy your freedom. While I enjoy true freedom with privacy.
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August 13, 2024, 03:14:33 PM
 #10

The digital currency business is worth around $1.5 trillion today. I predict that in 10 years it will be worth 10 times what it is today: 15 trillion dollars.

The question everybody here needs to ask themselves is: do you want to be part of that future, or not?

The achievement of any success comes along with a demanding task head for it be become a reality, so its all about how many are ready to give it all it could demand by investing in bitcoin, holding till then, one of the benefits of choosing bitcoin is that it has varieties of investment opportunities and diversifications which are profitable to us, some may require time for us to be profitable while some may be that our insight on the network will help towards generating the required expectations form it.

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August 13, 2024, 03:23:20 PM
 #11

Perhaps I should have clarified that while I believe the overall digital currency market will hit $15 trillion, I think Bitcoin itself will only be a part of that--and probably not even the majority of it.

So my other prediction is this: in five year's time, Bitcoin will be a minority of the total digital currency market cap (even though it may well be far higher in price than it is now).
While I assume the market to be very unpredictable and I do not care much for market cap, I think you are still very wrong in your predictions. Do you have any data to support it or just pulling data out of the air.

Bank transactions, including credit card transactions require an exchange of personal information. Most consumers don't want that for small transactions
If the system already has your details it doesn't matter the amount involved in the transaction you're doing. You don't get to decide when to be anonymous and when not to be if you're advocating for a centralized system.

And look, I get it, most here would say that those 99% of people are wrong and that they really should fear their government, and so on.
No, it's actually the other way around with those favoring centralization labelling those who want complete privacy just as you did.

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legiteum (OP)
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August 13, 2024, 03:38:14 PM
 #12


Bank transactions, including credit card transactions require an exchange of personal information. Most consumers don't want that for small transactions

If the system already has your details it doesn't matter the amount involved in the transaction you're doing. You don't get to decide when to be anonymous and when not to be if you're advocating for a centralized system.


Sure you do. VPN companies like NordVPN provide anonymous browsing. DuckDuckGo allows for private web surfing. There are lots of anonymous email services out there. There are surely some companies out there who many don't trust with their privacy for good reasons, but that's about the company, not the technical architecture.

You don't need the blockchain architecture to be anonymous.

(And of course Bitcoin itself, with it's public ledger, is highly non-anonymous but that's another discussion).



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August 13, 2024, 03:42:39 PM
 #13

You don't need the blockchain architecture to be anonymous.

And of course Bitcoin itself, with it's public ledger, is highly non-anonymous but that's another discussion).
Of course you do not and I never said you did. A VPN it a private browser or anonymous email will not make your transaction private if you're already KYCed by the financial institution.

Bitcoin has always been pseudo-anonymous.

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August 13, 2024, 03:57:03 PM
Last edit: August 13, 2024, 08:04:28 PM by legiteum
 #14

You don't need the blockchain architecture to be anonymous.

And of course Bitcoin itself, with it's public ledger, is highly non-anonymous but that's another discussion).
Of course you do not and I never said you did. A VPN it a private browser or anonymous email will not make your transaction private if you're already KYCed by the financial institution.

Bitcoin has always been pseudo-anonymous.

My point was that VPNs and private browsers are companies that stake their reputation on keeping your privacy--and I think most people trust them to do that, just like people probably trust the many defacto centralized blockchain-based cryptos out there.

I was just using VPNs and privacy-enhanced browsers as an example--they have nothing to do with digital currency or financial transactions.

Products like Monero give you "privacy" from your government when it has a legal inquiry. Most people do not need or desire that kind of "privacy" because they have nothing to hide from law enforcement.


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August 13, 2024, 07:30:33 PM
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 #15

Products like Monera give you "privacy" from your government when it has a legal inquiry. Most people do not need or desire that kind of "privacy" because they have nothing to hide from law enforcement.

So maybe we should stop using HTTPS and go back to basic HTTP, after all - we are not criminals, we have nothing to hide  Cheesy
I could write a thousand examples here why privacy matters even more for law abiding citizen than for criminal.  Grin

That's why we use encryption everyday, even if we don't notice it.  Wink
I don't know what Monera is but Monero has privacy by default and that's why it's so easy to use it, you make transaction same way as in Bitcoin but cheaper, faster and much more private.
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August 13, 2024, 07:41:04 PM
 #16

So my other prediction is this: in five year's time, Bitcoin will be a minority of the total digital currency market cap (even though it may well be far higher in price than it is now).
I see that you use the term "digital currency" instead of "cryptocurrency", likely because your project aligns more with the former than the latter. But, for the sake of discussion, what type of digital currency do you believe could surpass Bitcoin, or at least capture a significant share of its market? Central bank digital currency? That could very well exceed it, just as the USD exceeds Bitcoin in terms of market cap.

By the way, why do you call it "Monera"? It's Monero, and in plural, moneroj or just XMR.

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August 13, 2024, 07:56:08 PM
 #17

15 Trillion es a crazy number, already the market is bumped, I have no idea where does the 15T Will come from. if you compare the cryptos market cap with the biggest companies out there, cryptos are already in another level, so, i'm not saying 15T will be imposible, but I can't visualise where does that money will come from.

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August 13, 2024, 08:04:05 PM
 #18


Products like Monero give you "privacy" from your government when it has a legal inquiry. Most people do not need or desire that kind of "privacy" because they have nothing to hide from law enforcement.


So maybe we should stop using HTTPS and go back to basic HTTP, after all - we are not criminals, we have nothing to hide  Cheesy
I could write a thousand examples here why privacy matters even more for law abiding citizen than for criminal.  Grin


Most people use HTTPS because it protects them from online criminals and other citizens violating their privacy, not to engage in illegal activities.

You don't need to use Monero to buy something that is perfectly legal--which explains why Monero is only a tiny part of the digital currency market.


So my other prediction is this: in five year's time, Bitcoin will be a minority of the total digital currency market cap (even though it may well be far higher in price than it is now).


I see that you use the term "digital currency" instead of "cryptocurrency", likely because your project aligns more with the former than the latter. But, for the sake of discussion, what type of digital currency do you believe could surpass Bitcoin, or at least capture a significant share of its market? Central bank digital currency? That could very well exceed it, just as the USD exceeds Bitcoin in terms of market cap.


I did not predict any single digital currency would surpass Bitcoin. I predicted that Bitcoin's market cap share will fall below 50% from the ~80% it is today. I think the future will bring a lot more good, safe, stable and vibrant options to the market, and there will be lots of reasons people choose those options.

I don't think CBDCs are going anywhere because there's no reason for them to exist: there's no reason for any government to get involved in something that will be well-served by non-government options, just as they never got into the credit card business years ago, etc.




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August 13, 2024, 08:44:21 PM
 #19

You don't need to use Monero to buy something that is perfectly legal--which explains why Monero is only a tiny part of the digital currency market.
https://x.com/shopinbit/status/1811651225005195471
https://x.com/CoinCards/status/1809702144288882870

Monero is more used as cryptocurrency than Bitcoin or any other project including failure called LN.
Monero being cheaper to transact and faster is a bargain, on top of that you get privacy even if you don't care about it.

Bitcoin on chain "transactions" are mainly bots trading between themself  Cheesy

Now you know  Wink
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August 13, 2024, 10:17:07 PM
 #20

VPNs are centralized, they require money and they offer zero privacy.

Tor is free, decentralized and it offers true privacy.

I'm surprised people with "lots of IT experience" shill VPN services...
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