Wallet was emptied

[lotus78]

Hi - I use electrum wallet V 4.4.6 on my Windows 10 PC. (no password because I and my wife are the only one how use this pc) Last time i payed in march something with the wallet. Today I want to pay somthing, and the I saw that on 2024-07-28 16:42 my wallet was completley emptied. (about 330,- Euros). How can this happend ??  The seed is on paper in the crate, and only me and my wife haved acess to the pc. And beliefe me, my wife has no idee about crypto ore wallet ore somthing.. thx lotus78

you can see the sw version here:
https://ibb.co/1XWskSW
https://ibb.co/ZYmKqNT

[Charles-Tim]

If your laptop does not have password. Your wallet suppose to have password. Or you did not password both your device and wallet?

Also hope nobody saw the seed phrase where you put it in the crate? It is possible that another person have access to where the seed phrase is. If you know that you want your coins to be safe, you can use passphrase to extend the seed phrase. If you use passphrase that is strong, the person will not have access to your coins.

But make sure you backup the passphrase separately in separate locations and have two or three backup each. If you lose your passphrase, it is just like you lose your seed phrase because you will lose your coins.

Also be careful about online. It may be you or your wife that make mistake and download malware that a hacker use to compromise your wallet and steal your coins. Stored your coins on the device that only you is accessing and avoid malware. It can be through ads or while downloading some files online et cetera.

It is also better to go for any cold storage options which are safer.

[promise444c5]

Hi - I use electrum wallet V 4.4.6 on my Windows 10 PC. (no password because I and my wife are the only one how use this pc) Last time i payed in march something with the wallet. Today I want to pay somthing, and the I saw that on 2024-07-28 16:42 my wallet was completley emptied. (about 330,- Euros). How can this happend ??  The seed is on paper in the crate, and only me and my wife haved acess to the pc. And beliefe me, my wife has no idee about crypto ore wallet ore somthing.. thx lotus78

There's no reasonable answer that you can get than someone accessed your wallet and sent those coins if not you, wallet can't make atransactions itself , unless your wife thought of making withdrawal and gave someone the seed phrases  to help with it (that's if she had access to it ) since you said she doesn't know how to do it or maybe she learned how to do it herself.
You can  encrypt your wallet with a password apart from the normal seed phrase (and this should be only visible to you), this should prompt anytime you try to access your wallet  but that's only limited to same computer  without anyone having access to the seed phrase because  anyone can bypass that if they have access to it by just creating a new wallet with your seed phrase

[BitMaxz]

That's too risky why use a wallet with no password in an online device? Or you talking about PC password not the wallet itself?

Anything can be possible to an online device maybe there's someone have access to your PC and can remotely access it or someone already knows your seed phrase.

I don't know what the cause why all your funds are gone but did you ask your wife what site she usually access? There are many sites with lots of malware and viruses she maybe access a site with full of malware and viruses and infected your PC?

[Findingnemo]

There are many possibilities how you got emptied even assuming your wallet is totally legit.

1. Let's say someone accessed your PC at home and they found your wallet installed then decided to take the money with them, do you remember someone visited your house on the day you're mentioning?

2. Or your wife bloated the device with some malware while browsing, can be p*rn websites cause it's all over every page.

3. your seed leaked somehow.

[Mia Chloe]

Lost coins are definitely a crypto Nightmare. Op let me start by saying your coins were simply spent by someone either someone close to you spent it or your device was hacked and your coins spent.  Your security on that device was just way too low like you keys were pretty much sitting on that wallet unencrypted since you had no password protection on the wallet.
Anyways the coins have already been spent and there is virtually nothing you can do to recover them.

However I suggest that you format that device as soon as possible to safeguard you if it was a hack and then proceed to creating a new wallet with a new seed phrase and this time set up a password on your ELECTRUM app.

Don't forget to make a paper wallet back up
Don't forget to keep your keys e

[Stalker22]

You mentioned playing around with your wallet software last month.  Then right after, your wallet got totally drained! Do you recall what exactly you were messing with? Like did you put on some new software or extension or something? Or did some weird pop-up show up asking you to enter info or give permissions?  Have you scanned your system for malware?

I dont even think I need to suggest this, but stop using that wallet stat!  Its clearly been compromised.

[dkbit98]

Hi - I use electrum wallet V 4.4.6 on my Windows 10 PC. (no password because I and my wife are the only one how use this pc) Last time i payed in march something with the wallet. Today I want to pay somthing, and the I saw that on 2024-07-28 16:42 my wallet was completley emptied. (about 330,- Euros). How can this happend ??

If you are using wind0ws OS like I think you do than it's possible that you have some malware installed on your computer.
In any case your seed words leaked somehow and I wouldn't use that wallet and seed words anymore.
I would also install Linux OS because most malware are made for wind0ws.

[khaled0111]

I'm really sorry for your loss OP.

And beliefe me, my wife has no idee about crypto ore wallet ore somthing.. thx lotus78

Your first mistake was not securing your pc and wallet with strong passwords. Your second mistake was letting your wife use the device on which you have installed your wallet. If she doesn't know anythings about cryptocurrencies then she definitely doesn't know how to keep them secure.
The one who stole your coins either found the piece of paper on which you saved the seed or somehow had physical or remote access to your PC.
Without knowing the person who made that transaction, it'll be impossible to recover your coins.
What you should do right now is to stop using that wallet and format your PC and reinstall a new OS.

[logfiles]

If your wallet wasn't encrypted with any password, then you made it very easy for the thief to steal your funds. Just so you know, there are all kinds of malware out there, including those that are known as RAT (Remote Access Trojan)
With that malware executed on your PC, the attacker does not need to physically access your computer, he will remotely access it and withdraw the money any time the PC is online.

Also, you should jealousy guard your crypto. Putting it out there in a computer that is always connected to the internet and is being used by anybody that doesn't have good security practises is like throwing your wallet containing some paper notes in to the street and hoping no one picks it up or steals it.

[nc50lc]

Today I want to pay somthing, and the I saw that on 2024-07-28 16:42 my wallet was completley emptied. (about 330,- Euros). How can this happend ??

As far as I know, Electrum v4.4.6 doesn't have any vulnerabilities that was present in the old versions. (https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/security | check the affected versions)
Even so, those old bugs wont automatically grant direct access to create transactions without having access to the seed phrase or your wallet itself.
Since you're using 4.4.6, your Electrum should be secure, but that depends on your PC.

I'll skip the suggestion to verify the signature since you've used the wallet 5 months prior and your coins weren't immediately stolen.
Start by scanning for possible viruses or malware, not by Windows Defender because some viruses can exclude itself from its real-time protection and scanner.

-snip- and only me and my wife haved acess to the pc.

Anything that connects to the internet can be remotely accessed with the right conditions like "remote desktop" or a virus/malware.

When you opened Electrum today, does the "wipe transaction" already in the transaction history or it just updated (synced) to display a few seconds later?
Because the former is an indication that your Electrum was accessed on an older date when someone possibly did the transaction, be it physically or remotely.
But the latter could be an indication that someone has restored your seed phrase or private key and did the transaction at their end.

Anyways, even if you find the reason how it's stolen, there's little to no chance for you to recover it. (you'll have to find the culprit and make him send back your coins)

[BlackBoss_]

I'll skip the suggestion to verify the signature since you've used the wallet 5 months prior and your coins weren't immediately stolen.
Start by scanning for possible viruses or malware, not by Windows Defender because some viruses can exclude itself from its real-time protection and scanner.

How to lose your Bitcoins with CTRL-C CTRL-V.

Clipboard and malware are dangerous for people who don't use hardware wallet and don't use airgap device to store their bitcoin. Infected devices with these malicious things will cause bitcoin loss and people need to be careful with their activities online and offline. Offline does not mean it is completely safe if they carelessly plug in USBs, drives.

[lotus78]

thx to all, for taking time to answer my question!
It's funny, who many are blaming my wife...

So I think, that was all my foult:
1-no password on the wallet
2-not really save behavior in the internet - it was not clear for me, what risk that for the wallet coult be

Also - if you are thinking to buy more coins - only with cold wallet!!

So I will scan my PC a few times with different tools, and the I install a new wallet.
I hope I have learned enough to be more save!

thx
lotus78

@nc50lc
the "wipe transaction" updated (synced) and display a few seconds later !
When I started Electrum, I got a PopUp message from Electrum - Transaction confirmed.
as you mentioned - it looks like my seed was stolen...

[hosseinimr93]

So I will scan my PC a few times with different tools, and the I install a new wallet.

Even if you scan your computer for malwares with all available tools, that's not enough. Format your hard drive and reinstall your operating system.
And if you want to be completely secure, run electrum on an airgapped device and use it offline or go for a trustworthy hardware wallet. Take note that any online device is always prone to hacking.

[lotus78]

Even if you scan your computer for malwares with all available tools, that's not enough. Format your hard drive and reinstall your operating system.

You are right!

[nc50lc]

1-no password on the wallet

@nc50lc
the "wipe transaction" updated (synced) and display a few seconds later !
When I started Electrum, I got a PopUp message from Electrum - Transaction confirmed.
as you mentioned - it looks like my seed was stolen...

Since you confirmed that your wallet isn't encrypted, your seed phrase must has been directly acquired from the wallet file in "%appdata%/electrum/wallets" by a hacker.
It's as simple as clicking the menu: "Wallet->Seed" but it's more realistic to think that he got it from your unencrypted wallet file containing your seed phrase which is human-readable.
The perpetrator/virus must have done that since it's stealthier, he wont even have to open Electrum.

Of course, it should be a hacker that knows how Electrum and other bitcoin wallets work. (your wife is out of the question)
Or a virus that can scan for unencrypted files containing seed or private keys.

-snip-

How to lose your Bitcoins with CTRL-C CTRL-V.

I didn't included the possibility of a clipboard malware because OP isn't aware of the transaction until today.
So he couldn't have pasted a modified address to wipe his wallet.

[lotus78]

@nc50lc

Since you confirmed that your wallet isn't encrypted, your seed phrase must has been directly acquired from the wallet file in "%appdata%/electrum/wallets" by a hacker.
It's as simple as clicking the menu: "Wallet->Seed" but it's more realistic to think that he got it from your unencrypted wallet file containing your seed phrase which is human-readable.
The perpetrator/virus must have done that since it's stealthier, he wont even have to open Electrum.

You are my man !
I tested it - and its realy so as you say.
If the wallet is not encrypted, you can see the 8 words seed in the  "%appdata%/electrum/wallets/default_wallet" file !!
You only have to open it with an editor...
If the wallet get a password, then the seed is not visible in the file.

So that is  for me the realistic szenario how it happend...

And for all, how are interestetd - I checked my browser history and trash history -
and on the day the walles was emptied - I was on some "strange" sides, and downloaded some "exe" -
so for me - all ist clear.

Thanxs for helping me to understand my mistake, and maybee this also helps somenelse
lotus78
 

[LoyceV]

and on the day the walles was emptied - I was on some "strange" sides, and downloaded some "exe" -
so for me - all ist clear.

To state the obvious: you should consider this computer compromised. You should not trust it again. Backup all data (which anyone should do on a regular basis), wipe the computer, reinstall all software from scratch, change all passwords for all your online accounts. Use a password manager (like Keepass) if you didn't do that yet to create strong passwords. And don't ever download "some exe" again!

[Cricktor]

Holy cow, but nice to read what all went wrong here and what very likely was the cause for the stolen coins. It seems OP knows how he screwed up badly. Realising the faults is a first step, but frankly you should learn and change a few things to avoid another desaster (your lost amount fortunately isn't very much, but I don't know where you live and a few hundred €€ could be much more for you than for me). Anyway, I'd be pissed to get even way smaller amounts of €€ equivalents stolen.

Allow me to make a few suggestions for improvements:

• don't use your daily computer, especially with M$ Windows, for crypto coin wallets
• executing untrusted, unverified executables from shady sources will get you always in trouble; sophisticated malware could keylog your future wallet's passphrase and this new security barrier falls quicker than you think; you can catch ransomware (do you have a good backup regime, I doubt it)
• get a cheap used laptop or small computer, install Linux and use this device solely to interact with your software wallet; it's no rocket science
• if you want better security, think about a cold wallet setup or get a good hardware wallet, properly used, no chance for malware to steal your coins again, unless you do something very stupid, like not always carefully inspecting every transaction detail on the hardware wallet's screen before signing it; a separate Linux box used only for your wallet, no daily internet shit, is a big step forward compared to what you did in the past
• educate yourself a bit more about computer security and safe best practices (avoid cracked software, keygens or other warez; you can't know what payload they come with)
• don't install and execute every piece of shit software that cries to be clicked and installed; less is better and safer
• pay attention to what kind of browser extensions you install; check reputation of browser extensions thoroughly, but beware reputation for malicious browser extensions isn't too hard to get, if malicious profit is high enough
• don't make digital backups of your wallet's recovery words, only analog backups are safer, don't forget backup redundancy