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Author Topic: Can Bitcoin help to balance salaries across the world?  (Read 843 times)
d5000 (OP)
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August 15, 2024, 08:55:33 PM
 #1

Bitcoin is the first truly global currency. It can be used by anyone having access to the Internet, in any country.

Imagine now a world where salaries are paid in Bitcoin. This would enable us to compare salaries all over the world. And at least regarding work done online, like programming, graphic design and other typical freelance and digital work, it could help to establish a "global" salary level and thus help to balance inequality. [1]

There are freelance sectors where this already is the case, like our signature campaigns here, but also the Value4Value economy on Nostr, but it's still niches. Of course for this to work on a bigger scale than now, Bitcoin price would have to become more stable.

Also you could counter this argument that on freelance platforms the USD is used as a kind of substitute global currency, and international freelancers are competing there without country limits. However, there are several countries where the access to the USD is restricted, or where the conversion to a convenient rate is difficult. Thus a truly global currency like Bitcoin still could help to make salaries more "comparable".

What do you think?



[1] You could of course argue that the inequality has also to do with differences regarding the education level. But even regarding "digital" work, there are still salary differences which can't be explained by this - i.e. where a work of similar quality is more expensive in some countries than in others.


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August 15, 2024, 09:07:40 PM
Merited by d5000 (1)
 #2

I like and support the idea, but that might bring some sort of extra work if it's to be used in salary payment, and some times it could also cost a company to pay more or less depending on the current Bitcoin price as of the time of paying the worker who has earned from the company, unless the payment will be calculated in Bitcoin equivalent based on the current price in order to moderate and maintain a fixed value payment.

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August 15, 2024, 10:09:33 PM
Merited by d5000 (1)
 #3

What do you think?



[1] You could of course argue that the inequality has also to do with differences regarding the education level. But even regarding "digital" work, there are still salary differences which can't be explained by this - i.e. where a work of similar quality is more expensive in some countries than in others.
You make sense, but maybe it will happen if only it is possible that everyone will like bitcoin and agree to start using it.
A singular currency can really affect the way people pay for job done because it will give everyone the same sense of value of money. I think one of the very major things affecting the different amount of salaries paid to different individuals doing the same kind of job in different countries is based on the economic level in that country the lifestyle and cost of living.  

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August 15, 2024, 11:11:09 PM
 #4

One thing we have to notice at all time is that Bitcoin was designed as the alternative currency to the fiat currency in world. And once bitcoin is used as the global economy which can be use to pay salaries and buying things in all the countries then the era of fiat has come to an end.

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August 15, 2024, 11:52:52 PM
Last edit: August 16, 2024, 12:42:52 AM by d5000
 #5

I like and support the idea, but that might bring some sort of extra work if it's to be used in salary payment, and some times it could also cost a company to pay more or less depending on the current Bitcoin price[..]
That's true of course. There are already platforms taking away the "hard work" in the salary payment mechanisms, like Bitwage. Of course for a fee (paid by the recipient of the salary). The OP also assumes an evolution towards a more stable price.

Volatility is already lowering but not enough for a widespread salary payment. We should stay for at least a year under 1.5%, maximum 2% (30 day average volatility) for that, and currently we're just above 3% (in 2023 the record low was recorded with 0,77%). Above all these panic dumps like in early August, but also FOMO phases like in early 2024 from time to time increase the value still a bit. Guessing from the chart, I estimate in the next crypto winter or early bull (maybe 2025 or 26) these conditions could become true.


Source: Bitcoin Volatility Index

A singular currency can really affect the way people pay for job done because it will give everyone the same sense of value of money.

Exactly that. In some countries, the USD already has this function (for example, in South America), and in others the Euro (Eastern Europe). But Bitcoin has the potential to really unify this "sense of value".

I think one of the very major things affecting the different amount of salaries paid to different individuals doing the same kind of job in different countries is based on the economic level in that country the lifestyle and cost of living.  
Yes, there are of course some more differences impacting in salaries than just the education level.

For example, a programmer in a country like India may pay less for housing (rent/buying a house) than one in the US, and that lowers the minimum value they're going to accept for their work. However, rent prices at least in the bigger cities are also "globalizing" gradually, and this could become even more pronounced if Bitcoin becomes a truly global currency (imagine real estate websites showing the prices in BTC). This has of course also potentially negative consequence as it could lead to housing bubbles but in general this would be limited mostly to very attractive areas.

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August 16, 2024, 02:01:48 AM
 #6

Like you said, this case is already present in certain sectors, but I don't think this would be fully implemented unless global prices of goods and services are also more or less uniform and are denominated in Bitcoin. Otherwise, what would prevail as the ultimate factor in salaries are the local standards of living.

Bitcoin helps level the playing field, yeah, but businesses and companies aren't unaware of the situation all over the world. And rather than help level the field further, they're actually making the situation worse. A company doesn't hire locals if that means a higher salary all the while there are abundant and exactly the same skills available overseas that are much cheaper.

Or, as far as actual experience is concerned, they may start giving equal salaries regardless of the locations of their employees but they eventually adjust them according to local standards if that means saving a considerable amount of operational expenses thereby increasing the revenue.

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August 16, 2024, 03:40:48 AM
 #7

Imagine now a world where salaries are paid in Bitcoin. This would enable us to compare salaries all over the world. And at least regarding work done online, like programming, graphic design and other typical freelance and digital work, it could help to establish a "global" salary level and thus help to balance inequality. [1]
If this could balance inequality, I’m not sure given that, people around the world leaves under different economic conditions and as such, you can’t expect that people from nations with low economy can’t have the hope of a fiat salary or even try to measure up with people from mayors where the conditions of living is very fair.

If this could help in a study, well yes.

If you ask if this would be done or implemented, I’m not so sure. The fiat is an identity and symbolic currency and as such, countries around the world will always want to pay its servants in public offices in fiat.
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August 16, 2024, 03:52:13 AM
 #8

Currency is just a currency regardless it's USD, Bitcoin etc it can't balance salaries across the world.

The recruiters are always discriminate their workers, they will hire and pay based on your ethnic, races, countries, and even your religions.

You know, company always try to reduce their expense as much as they can, so if they know you live in third world country where the minimum salary is $100/month, even you have high quality skill that worth $100K/month in first world country, they will try to offer at least $100/month instead of $100K/month.

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August 16, 2024, 04:56:38 AM
 #9

A company doesn't hire locals if that means a higher salary all the while there are abundant and exactly the same skills available overseas that are much cheaper.

Of course this is actually part of the problem: as long as there is more supply (of workers) than demand, then the price tends to "level down" to the cheapest offer. And then a worker from a "cheap salary country" would try to become the cheapest offer if they still get more than for a typical "offline" job in their country.

But I believe a "balancing" or "levelling" could occur as a very slow and gradual process. If the mentioned worker sees, in a global currency, what people from "richer" countries get for exactly the same work, then he may adjust his standards a bit to the upside. Of course this already happens with the USD as "de facto global currency", but with Bitcoin it would become even clearer. This is why I highlighted the "sense of value" in the earlier post.

Let's say (assuming we stay stable at current prices around $56-63k) a person from *typical poor country* is about to offer a programming job for 0.0003BTC / hour (about $15-20 in dollars) and sees that his US/European colleagues charge no less than 0.0008. Some would then be tempted to go up to 0.0004 or even 0.0005. Or they work on their language skills to not appear like "the typical cheap programmer from overseas" and then is able to even go to 0.0005 or 0.0006.

The recruiters are always discriminate their workers, they will hire and pay based on your ethnic, races, countries, and even your religions.
This is true unfortunately, at least in most jobs. But in a typical online freelancing platform setting, where I imagine Bitcoin first to thrive and earlier than in "offline" jobs, often you will appear as a "black box" to recruiters, with only an username (and a portfolio of your work) for example. On these platforms, the "levelling up" process for people from poorer countries I described above in the answer to Darker45 could take place gradually.
 

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August 16, 2024, 05:57:06 AM
 #10

I think the forum is a unique case where it does not ask for your location data, therefore the standard of efficiency depends on the quality of the posts and there were big differences between accounts that get +$300 weekly and accounts that get less than $100 weekly.
Unifying salaries will not be good because it kills creativity and even in countries that give low salaries there are benefits besides the salary such as free housing or longer vacations or other differences.

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August 16, 2024, 06:20:21 AM
 #11

But I believe a "balancing" or "levelling" could occur as a very slow and gradual process. If the mentioned worker sees, in a global currency, what people from "richer" countries get for exactly the same work, then he may adjust his standards a bit to the upside. Of course this already happens with the USD as "de facto global currency", but with Bitcoin it would become even clearer. This is why I highlighted the "sense of value" in the earlier post.
A single currency and a universal minimum wage will make sense if the world is governed by a single government. Countries suffer from different levels of inflation, and the prices of goods and services are different. If I am paid the same salary as a worker in the US, I will be living like a king in my country while the workers in the US might still be struggling to survive. This is because the cost of living in my country is lower than in the US. Except for nations that have the same economic conditions, a uniform payment system will still lead to inequality.

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August 16, 2024, 01:20:47 PM
Merited by d5000 (1)
 #12

Bitcoin is the first truly global currency. It can be used by anyone having access to the Internet, in any country.

Imagine now a world where salaries are paid in Bitcoin. This would enable us to compare salaries all over the world. And at least regarding work done online, like programming, graphic design and other typical freelance and digital work, it could help to establish a "global" salary level and thus help to balance inequality. [1]

There are freelance sectors where this already is the case, like our signature campaigns here, but also the Value4Value economy on Nostr, but it's still niches. Of course for this to work on a bigger scale than now, Bitcoin price would have to become more stable.

Also you could counter this argument that on freelance platforms the USD is used as a kind of substitute global currency, and international freelancers are competing there without country limits. However, there are several countries where the access to the USD is restricted, or where the conversion to a convenient rate is difficult. Thus a truly global currency like Bitcoin still could help to make salaries more "comparable".

What do you think?


Well if i think of such an idea as bitcoin as a world currency to create good wages and fight inequality is very alluring. It could set a truly universal standard for equal wages within industries and the freelance industry or digital ones. Should I say in this manner, a wage inequality equilibrium is created by equalizing global wage equilibrium. But we all knew that the high volatility of Bitcoin presently is a major stumbling block to it as a stable payment currency. Wide-scale adoption would require improvement of price stability. Moreover, if Bitcoin is going to replace USD or any other traditional currency, it should be considered that not all the communities can have equal access to cryptocurrency or infrastructure and for that some countries don't even legalize Bitcoin as of today. In spite of bitcoin, has the potential to play a part in inequality if it is going to decrease though practicably a number of challenges need to be addressed to improve it on a higher scale.

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August 16, 2024, 02:17:48 PM
 #13

Let me remind you the unemployment rate is higher than ever all over the world and it varies from country to country which means people will be ready to do a job for less price assuming the quality is same, so salary is just decided by the demand and supply not really based on the quality of the service or product.

Equality in salary is only possible if every country comes under one governance and there's same minimum wage rule applies for anyone or else we have no way of attaining balance in salaries from different parts of the world.

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August 16, 2024, 03:47:11 PM
Merited by d5000 (1)
 #14

Bitcoin is the first truly global currency. It can be used by anyone having access to the Internet, in any country.

Imagine now a world where salaries are paid in Bitcoin. This would enable us to compare salaries all over the world. And at least regarding work done online, like programming, graphic design and other typical freelance and digital work, it could help to establish a "global" salary level and thus help to balance inequality. [1]

There are freelance sectors where this already is the case, like our signature campaigns here, but also the Value4Value economy on Nostr, but it's still niches. Of course for this to work on a bigger scale than now, Bitcoin price would have to become more stable.

Also you could counter this argument that on freelance platforms the USD is used as a kind of substitute global currency, and international freelancers are competing there without country limits. However, there are several countries where the access to the USD is restricted, or where the conversion to a convenient rate is difficult. Thus a truly global currency like Bitcoin still could help to make salaries more "comparable".

What do you think?



[1] You could of course argue that the inequality has also to do with differences regarding the education level. But even regarding "digital" work, there are still salary differences which can't be explained by this - i.e. where a work of similar quality is more expensive in some countries than in others.
I am not sure what prevents us for comparing the salaries in btc now. All you need is to convert said salaries to btc and compare.

And it's not like people who are getting paid small salaries now would paid more with bitcoin. There's no need to pay more if there are no laws protecting those workers and or costs of living are relatively low because there's no real infra that takes money.

If anything, this would just lead to getting paid less, because would you think that project manager would choose to pay more if they easily found an offer from overseas that 1/5th of it? Even when that offer is clearly running an immoral sweatshop. Imho that manager would probably chose slave labour if they get away from it.

Also there's nothing really preventing to pay with bitcoin in countries where USD is restricted or buy bitcoin with your salary, so i am not sure how global adoption of this would change things. Paying salaries with btc would be standard method already if benefits would outweight the negatives.

Governments won't most likely don't want to promote btc as a currency, or replacing / threatening the position of fiat money as they would fear market manipulation affecting their countries and there wouldn't be a way to protect them in crisis situations. Currently they can just print more money to go trough crisis.

It's also not economically sustainable to use BTC as cash, when you benefit more by holding it. Economy/capitalism works best when people consume and don't hoard their money.

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August 16, 2024, 05:14:43 PM
 #15

Currency is just a currency regardless it's USD, Bitcoin etc it can't balance salaries across the world.

The recruiters are always discriminate their workers, they will hire and pay based on your ethnic, races, countries, and even your religions.

You know, company always try to reduce their expense as much as they can, so if they know you live in third world country where the minimum salary is $100/month, even you have high quality skill that worth $100K/month in first world country, they will try to offer at least $100/month instead of $100K/month.
Of course this is related to the economic level of the region or country concerned, the economic index is a reference in paying salaries.

Not only is the oppression of some companies also with the level of employee ability needs and make competition, to have a reciprocal price of the performance provided by the employee is different, so this cannot be generalized to get a balanced vision.

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August 16, 2024, 05:50:44 PM
Merited by d5000 (1)
 #16

This isn't really that much of a big problem because salaries can never be equal everywhere. Look at Euro zone for example, you think people at Greece make the same amount of money as people in Germany does? Of course not, because they are not equal nations and they will never be equal and that's why it's different. If they end up putting something like this in the mix, like let's say there is a magical wand and we got rid of every nations fiat ever, and everyone uses bitcoin, it still means that some nations will have citizens making less, and some nations will make more.

This is why it will not balance it, maybe help a bit, but it will not be possible to balance it. Plus, we need to remember that it's only 21 million at max, when all is mined, plus we are talking about something that's going to get higher results and we are not going to see anything major changing neither because it is going to be tougher. So all in all, we should be warning the situation as much as we possibly could.

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August 16, 2024, 05:59:01 PM
Merited by Dzwaafu11 (2), d5000 (1)
 #17


[1] You could of course argue that the inequality has also to do with differences regarding the education level. But even regarding "digital" work, there are still salary differences which can't be explained by this - i.e. where a work of similar quality is more expensive in some countries than in others.

I have nothing concerning equality but if we look at this forum for example, there is a reason why some people on this forum don't participate in signature campaigns despite their reputations, their trust and personal relations with the forum founder and campaign managers. The pay rate looks too low to them compare to if they want to used that time to work per hour outside the forum, this is why I'm not sure a balance in salary scale will be difficult globally.

There is always different in payment even in online gigs and freelancing, many tech companies gives priority to some countries and consider there pay because their standards of living are more expensive than others. For example, if I get a company that will pay me to work as a social media handler $1500 a month, I will feel like I have won a jackpot but you can't used that to employ a person living in New York when they have a rent of atleast $2k a month to pay, standard of living and economic difference wouldn't make this feasible in my opinion

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August 16, 2024, 06:23:30 PM
Merited by d5000 (1)
 #18

I'm not sure how being global helps address salary inequality. The US dollar isn't a global currency, but it can be obtained through exchange with other fiat currencies. When comparing salaries between Venezuela and the US, you need to consider their gross domestic products. The US produces significantly more per capita than Venezuela. I don't see how their currencies directly contribute to this inequality, aside from each central bank's interest rate policies. (For example, the Venezuelan bolívar is hyperinflated, while the US dollar is not.)

Bitcoin helps by providing a hedge against inflation. The issue isn't just that fiat currencies are limited to their nations' borders, but that people save in currencies that are constantly devaluing. However, while the difference might be less severe by saving in Bitcoin, it will still remain significant because, as I mentioned, not all countries produce at the same level.

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August 16, 2024, 08:30:22 PM
 #19

I think the forum is a unique case where it does not ask for your location data
I've seen freelancer platforms where the platform may ask for your location, the customers (those paying for work) only see the username and the portfolio - and the things the "workers" pubish about themselves in their profiles of course. There may be several models though.

Unifying salaries will not be good because it kills creativity and even in countries that give low salaries there are benefits besides the salary such as free housing or longer vacations or other differences.
Of course I'm not in favour of a completely unified salary. But for me for exactly the same work, a relatively similar salary or payment is justified despite the location of the worker. I don't understand what you meant with free housing/longer vacations, as that afaik are mostly benefits of high-salary countries (Europe ranks consistently in the first places when it comes to paid vacations).

[...] not all the communities can have equal access to cryptocurrency or infrastructure and for that some countries don't even legalize Bitcoin as of today.
Good points. However, I have some hope that these challenges tend to improve. For example, recently Bolivia has relaxed its crypto restrictions a lot, which should drastically improve the access to Bitcoin there.

I am not sure what prevents us for comparing the salaries in btc now. All you need is to convert said salaries to btc and compare.
Of course this is possible. But doing these conversions is not something people regularly do. I think the decision "which price I'm willing to offer to my customers" is influenced heavily by the "sense of value". And if a person from a low-salary country see salaries from people from other countries for the same work in the same currency (in this case, the BTC), then this can increase the "sense of value" they perceive for the task.

If anything, this would just lead to getting paid less, because would you think that project manager would choose to pay more if they easily found an offer from overseas that 1/5th of it?
I believe this is happening for a long time already. Major companies do have the resources to compare salaries across the world, even if this needs lots of currency conversions. For the workers themselves this is much more difficult. Of course most workers are aware of the inequality, but often without consequences, and a part of the problem in my opinion is that the salary differences are not directly visible (only in some few cases like international freelancing).

I agree about worker protection, this is also a part of the puzzle. Bitcoin can only help with parts of this "balancing" task.

It's also not economically sustainable to use BTC as cash, when you benefit more by holding it. Economy/capitalism works best when people consume and don't hoard their money.
I read this argument a lot, but this changes dramatically if your income is also paid in BTC (in comparison to the situation where you bought the Bitcoins). If you have a steady influx of Bitcoins, then it's also easy to spend them. Transaction fees are of course an issue, thats why we need Lightning and other L2s.

Look at Euro zone for example, you think people at Greece make the same amount of money as people in Germany does?
Just the Eurozone is an example that such a "balancing" is happening, although very gradually. My example here would not be Greece, which had a tremendous economic crisis in the 2010s, but the Eastern european countries which adopted the euro like Slovenia, Slovakia or Estonia. The differences between their salaries and the Western European nations like Germany or France were much higher in the 90s and 2000s. Of course the Euro area is special as also the common market policies play a major role in that balancing, and thus also countries like Poland are "balancing up". But I think at least a part of the process can be attributed to the Euro, it's not casual that several countries are currently trying to join that area.

When comparing salaries between Venezuela and the US, you need to consider their gross domestic products. The US produces significantly more per capita than Venezuela. I don't see how their currencies directly contribute to this inequality, aside from each central bank's interest rate policies.
Of course there are many factors in play and the "amount of goods produced" does also impact in the salary level. As I wrote in another answer above I don't think Bitcoin or any other "global currency" can solve the inequality problem by itself.

My theory is that it however could help with some factors. Apart from the "sense of value" issue I mentioned above, I also think previsibility for foreign investment would be a major factor. You just brought up the example of Venezuela, and in Argentina (and other countries with a fastly devaluating currency) the situation is very similar: Many companies which would have invested if the currency was more stable are not doing this due to the "devaluation cost", i.e. constant hedging and possible currency exchange barriers, which impacts in the equation when they calculate the profit they could achieve with the investment. Getting international credit is also perhaps easier with a global currency, as the "devaluation costs" impact in the capability of a country to re-pay debt.

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Asiska02
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August 16, 2024, 08:53:05 PM
 #20

What do you think?



[1] You could of course argue that the inequality has also to do with differences regarding the education level. But even regarding "digital" work, there are still salary differences which can't be explained by this - i.e. where a work of similar quality is more expensive in some countries than in others.

The idea is a great one and the only thing I see that can counter this your proposal is the economy situation in that country. We have different economy in all countries and that will be the major to play an important role in determining if the unified money paid in bitcoin even when more stable can help to make salary balanced across the world.

Those of higher calibre of work can still get paid higher because of their work professionalism, but if the economy situation of that country does not flow with that paid amount, it’ll destroy the goal of the unified payment in bitcoin. A professional freelancer in the USA when paid same amount as a professional freelancer in Nigeria, the one in Nigeria will see the worth of the money much more than that in the USA. The economy of the country will matter a lot and will obstruct the unified payment if enacted.

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