Voting on the Blockchain

[Abiky]

I've stumbled across a few smart contracts built on the Ethereum blockchain which allows you to cast your vote using ETH. Given the immutable nature of most blockchain networks, it's almost impossible to commit voter fraud. Crypto/Blockchain tech is also being used for decentralized identities, unlocking limitless potential for real world applications. Would you imagine a system like this being implemented for general elections? Imagine being able to vote for your preferred presidential candidate using Blockchain tech. There should be no need to vote physically at the polling station or even send ballots by mail. Everything will be done at home in a secure manner. For complete security/reliability, governments can build on top of either the Bitcoin or Ethereum blockchains.

What are your thoughts? Will governments eventually use public blockchain networks to allow citizens to cast their vote? If not, why? Do you think we're still early to see something like this implemented at a large scale?

Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[DeathAngel]

As long as voter fraud could be guaranteed not to happen then I think it’s a great idea. It would be quite controversial though so whilst I think it’s definitely possible eventually, I don’t expect the powers that be to pivot to blockchain voting any time soon.

[Jating]

Isn't it this has been talk about since 2018? And there are few tests on this kind of voting, I remember some city in Japan doing it and countries in Europe as well. But we haven't heard anything from it ever since or if it is really implement or being used by government.

If the aim is to eliminated voter's fraud or cheating then it's good. But that is the problem, I'm not saying that government doesn't like it, but in the likelihood that it is going to be implement, there could be some people that in the position that will block it because they can't manipulate the votes, just saying.

[legiteum]

Anonymous, untraceable voting? No thank you. Sounds like open season for hackers forever.

[dansus021]

Voting in blockchain indeed can be fraud but today Blockchain voting had different approach there is an app called https://snapshot.org/#/etherfi-dao.eth this is one of the example.

Basically you need hold some token to vote, if you hold ton of them your vote gonna make significant impact to their governance its works same like in the traditional stock market

[Sayeds56]

I've stumbled across a few smart contracts built on the Ethereum blockchain which allows you to cast your vote using ETH. Given the immutable nature of most blockchain networks, it's almost impossible to commit voter fraud. Crypto/Blockchain tech is also being used for decentralized identities, unlocking limitless potential for real world applications. Would you imagine a system like this being implemented for general elections? Imagine being able to vote for your preferred presidential candidate using Blockchain tech. There should be no need to vote physically at the polling station or even send ballots by mail. Everything will be done at home in a secure manner. For complete security/reliability, governments can build on top of either the Bitcoin or Ethereum blockchains.

What are your thoughts? Will governments eventually use public blockchain networks to allow citizens to cast their vote? If not, why? Do you think we're still early to see something like this implemented at a large scale?

Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Using block chain technology for voting has a topic of discussion in many circles of political parties and government officials. In my opinion It is a great idea as it can enhance transparency, security and accessibility of voting process. However, consensus need to be created among stake holder for its implementation.

In developing countries, the wide-spread rigging of votes is very common which results in formation of governments whose legitimacy is questionable. Such governments are not true representee of the people. I hope blockchain based voting system can help prevent fraud.

[legiteum]

In developing countries, the wide-spread rigging of votes is very common which results in formation of governments whose legitimacy is questionable. Such governments are not true representee of the people. I hope blockchain based voting system can help prevent fraud.

A system that allows infinite anonymous votes not necessarily connected to real human beings will multiply the possibilities for fraud.

Has anybody actually thought this through? Or do you think adding the word, "blockchain" to something automatically makes it better somehow, not matter how ridiculous it is when you go to implement it?

[Sayeds56]

In developing countries, the wide-spread rigging of votes is very common which results in formation of governments whose legitimacy is questionable. Such governments are not true representee of the people. I hope blockchain based voting system can help prevent fraud.

A system that allows infinite anonymous votes not necessarily connected to real human beings will multiply the possibilities for fraud.

Has anybody actually thought this through? Or do you think adding the word, "blockchain" to something automatically makes it better somehow, not matter how ridiculous it is when you go to implement it?

It is very encouraging to see critical thinking around these issues, affecting those impact our lives and future of our children. Your point about potential of fraud in the system that can allow infinite votes, however, this concern could be mitigated if the voting devices are only accessible though biometric confirmation, then this problem can be resolved. Additionally, 2nd layer of security verification could be phone number of email address to further strenthen the security of the system.

[KillerEyez]

The idea is exciting, but there are still challenges to overcome, like ensuring everyone has access and preventing potential hacking. It could be the future, but we're not quite there yet.

[legiteum]

Okay, fine, I'll help you all out here and think this through with you...

It is very encouraging to see critical thinking around these issues, affecting those impact our lives and future of our children. Your point about potential of fraud in the system that can allow infinite votes, however, this concern could be mitigated if the voting devices are only accessible though biometric confirmation, then this problem can be resolved. Additionally, 2nd layer of security verification could be phone number of email address to further strenthen the security of the system.

So biometric confirmation, which I assume means that a voter registers themselves in a central database somewhere, connecting their personal identity to some biometric information, similar to what Clear does at airports.

Then the email address and and phone number. Great. Now you have a database with every voter in the US with all of this information, and presumably this includes things like the district where they vote (so you need their residential address as well) so that too can be confirmed.

So my first question for you is, where are you going to keep this database? Who administers this database? By what authority is this database maintained? How is access to this database controlled? You need to do things like remove voters who are no longer eligible to vote (death, criminal conviction) and you need the database to be changeable since people move or change their name all of the time.

But fine, now you have a database with all of the voters in the USA connected to some kind of identifier. Now our system needs to take in votes, which is a connection between a voter ID and a candidate up for vote. Where is the database that holds these connections stored, and who maintains this database?

There are a thousand more questions to ask, but this is decent start.

And then the overriding question is, for each answer, what does "blockchain" have to do with any of this.

Understand that, for any system, if you add needless complexity, it makes it less secure because it adds to avenues of attack (the reason why things like air traffic control systems are so safe is because they have been kept very simple).

All I see people doing here is saying the word "blockchain" as it that will somehow magically solve problems.

[o48o]

I've stumbled across a few smart contracts built on the Ethereum blockchain which allows you to cast your vote using ETH. Given the immutable nature of most blockchain networks, it's almost impossible to commit voter fraud. Crypto/Blockchain tech is also being used for decentralized identities, unlocking limitless potential for real world applications. Would you imagine a system like this being implemented for general elections? Imagine being able to vote for your preferred presidential candidate using Blockchain tech. There should be no need to vote physically at the polling station or even send ballots by mail. Everything will be done at home in a secure manner. For complete security/reliability, governments can build on top of either the Bitcoin or Ethereum blockchains.

What are your thoughts? Will governments eventually use public blockchain networks to allow citizens to cast their vote? If not, why? Do you think we're still early to see something like this implemented at a large scale?

Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Yes, i believe such a voting system is possible to build, but not with any existing tech that i know of. Least not without some kind of underlying ZK tech that it needs to pass EU privacy laws and who know how many other complex regulations it would need to be compatible with.

I have been waiting finished product for a while now, that would be build regulations in mind, but all blockchain based self-sovereign identities are still in experimental state and there also needs to be test of time behind that tech, not to mention the problems with adoption. Imho any real use cases are more then 10 years away. And that's my optimistic view.
 
But thing is, that it's not like people would believe there's no fraud, even when mathematically proven it's not possible with open source code. Proving something doesn't really count these days because it's sadly about how people feet about the outcome.

[d5000]

I think there could be a potential for blockchain tech to improve existing systems.

In my country some levels of the government are elected with a semi-automatic system. You vote personally in a regular polling station (i.e. there are polling workers checking your ID that you are enabled to vote), but select your candidates or parties on an airgapped computer. Then the computer prints out a "receipt" that you will throw inside the voting bin without the polling officers' interference. This means that the computer doesn't know who you are, but it "knows" that you are enabled to vote (because the polling officers have checked your ID and enabled you to access the computer).

Now imagine the computer could also throw out an one-time code derived from the candidates you selected, which you then could digitally sign, and then print out a QR code you can take home which would prove that "someone voted the candidate you voted". Probably the safest way would be to use a second airgapped device for that step.

You could then scan the QR code on a mobile app and feed it to a public blockchain. If everybody does this (and everybody is incentived to do it, you could even do that inside the polling station with a third device) then there is some control that the system took into account your own vote properly. This would make the type of fraud like in Venezuela, where the "electronic" voting system is a kind of "black box" and you have to trust that the polling officers count the votes properly, nearly impossible.

At a first glance you could also try to prove your vote to other persons, including party officials which could request it for corruption (e.g. offering a "prize" if you vote them, this practice is quite common). However, as the ID code you received is not tied to your own ID, you can only prove that "someone" voted vor this candidate, not that you did it.

The blockchain could also be employed one step further (also Venezuela gave me that idea). The voter votes manually or in the semi-electronic way I described above but without connecting at all to a blockchain nor receiving the "receipt" I mentioned in the first variant. The votes are then counted. When all the polling officers agree with the vote count, they do not only sign the result manually (like it occurs today), but in addition broadcast the result, digitally signed by the polling officials, into a public blockchain.

These ideas aren't "fancy Internet vote" as they still rely on control by party-sponsored polling officials, but they could make the process a little bit more transparent if I'm not missing something.

[legiteum]

[...]
You could then scan the QR code on a mobile app and feed it to a public blockchain. If everybody does this (and everybody is incentived to do it, you could even do that inside the polling station with a third device) then there is some control that the system took into account your own vote properly.
[...]

What would stop hackers from feeding millions of fake votes into the same data store? And what does arranging the data store into a blockchain do?

It's worth noting here that only the very largest blockchain networks, e.g. Bitcoin, are significantly resistant to 51% attacks. In a high-stakes election with billions of dollars on the line (or say an election that, say, Russia had an interest in the outcome), arranging a 51% attack on a weaker network would be relatively straight-forward.

Also, there are currently about 500k Bitcoin transactions per day, and those transactions can cost up to $30 each. In the US elections, there will be about 150M votes cast. This is an impedance mismatch. You could help things with a PoS model, but that would defeat the purpose of this sort of distributed network (which wouldn't make sense to be blockchain in terms of the data structure, since votes aren't a ledger and aren't chained like transactions are).

I have asked, on every venue available to me, for documented design wins for blockchain that is not related to cryptocurrencies or NFTs. I have thus far been given exactly zero examples. Lot's of handwaving. Lot's of "we're thinking about working on a solution". Lot's of top-level executives saying, "our people are looking into it". And lots and LOTS of toolmakers like Amazon and Microsoft selling blockchain tools for some as-of-yet-unknown solution using blockchain. But no actual applications using blockchain, except for currencies and NFTs--after 15 years of blockchain being in existence.

Blockchain isn't a solution to anything except for the problem Satoshi solved with it: a government-resistant currency and transaction mechanism.

[Abiky]

As long as voter fraud could be guaranteed not to happen then I think it’s a great idea. It would be quite controversial though so whilst I think it’s definitely possible eventually, I don’t expect the powers that be to pivot to blockchain voting any time soon.

Governments can prevent voter fraud by using a reliable and immutable blockchain network such as Bitcoin. Ethereum is another option. Blockchain tech is already battle-tested and proven for mainstream use. So there's nothing stopping governments from creating a voting system built on Blockchain tech. If they decide to use smart contracts, they'd need to check for security issues/vulnerabilities/bugs before launching them to the public.

We're living in a "digital era", so physical polling stations will soon become a thing of the past. You'll be able to vote for politicians remotely in a completely secure manner. I think governments haven't explored this area, because they're still skeptical of Blockchain. But with increasing adoption of crypto assets worldwide, they will change their mind about it. The crypto industry made great progress with approval of spot ETFs in the US and abroad. It should be a matter of time before Blockchain becomes a part of our daily life. Just you wait and see. The question is: Which country will be the first to implement such a system? I'm guessing it will be El Salvador. Although, I could be wrong...

[Odusko]

As long as voter fraud could be guaranteed not to happen then I think it’s a great idea. It would be quite controversial though so whilst I think it’s definitely possible eventually, I don’t expect the powers that be to pivot to blockchain voting any time soon.

They will never allow anything that exposed they fraud to get implemented, and for sure Blockchain will eliminate voters irregularities a d that will effect the corrupted electrical process and system that goes on in many countries around the world, so definitely the development will face a lot of solid rock at the beginning, but then when it comes to positive changes, it will happen eventually but it may take longer to happen than expected, and for that untill then let blackcain continue to offer it service in cryptography.
Just like crypto have faced a lot of resistance from the power that be, the same way will Blockchain adoption in conducting free and fair election will suffer the same faith in the hands of those politicians.

[Casdinyard]

I've stumbled across a few smart contracts built on the Ethereum blockchain which allows you to cast your vote using ETH. Given the immutable nature of most blockchain networks, it's almost impossible to commit voter fraud. Crypto/Blockchain tech is also being used for decentralized identities, unlocking limitless potential for real world applications. Would you imagine a system like this being implemented for general elections? Imagine being able to vote for your preferred presidential candidate using Blockchain tech. There should be no need to vote physically at the polling station or even send ballots by mail. Everything will be done at home in a secure manner. For complete security/reliability, governments can build on top of either the Bitcoin or Ethereum blockchains.

What are your thoughts? Will governments eventually use public blockchain networks to allow citizens to cast their vote? If not, why? Do you think we're still early to see something like this implemented at a large scale?

Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

I've seen countless projects do this and have been laughed at when I told people who are against blockchain (not even about bitcoin or cryptocurrency, just literally blockchain) when I told them about how blockchain could be so versatile when it comes to data storage and access. Applications like this are just something to be proud about cause now I have more ways to rub the blockchain's potential for reinventing the future in more ways than one lol. But in all seriousness, I think once we get the government a little more tame towards cryptocurrency and the idea of a blockchain-powered infrastructure, we would definitely see applications like these and more being integrated into our daily lives. Purchases, police reports, government audits, you name it.

[legiteum]

I've seen countless projects do this and have been laughed at when I told people who are against blockchain (not even about bitcoin or cryptocurrency, just literally blockchain) when I told them about how blockchain could be so versatile when it comes to data storage and access. Applications like this are just something to be proud about cause now I have more ways to rub the blockchain's potential for reinventing the future in more ways than one lol. But in all seriousness, I think once we get the government a little more tame towards cryptocurrency and the idea of a blockchain-powered infrastructure, we would definitely see applications like these and more being integrated into our daily lives. Purchases, police reports, government audits, you name it.

Sure is weird that, after 15 years and billions of dollars in interest, there's not a single documented blockchain design win that isn't cryptocurrency or NTFs. Anywhere. Ever.

It's almost like a bunch of people who were enthusiastic about Bitcoin said, "let's make everything that way" even though they have never shipped a software product in their lives, and have absolutely no clue about what they are talking about.

But Bitcoin is awesome. And Bitcoin is based on the blockchain architecture. So therefore anything built on the blockchain architecture must be awesome. So they tell software engineers to go do it, and then those engineers collectively say, "WTF are you even talking about? That makes no sense." and deliver something else that works, but doesn't have "blockchain" in it.

[d5000]

What would stop hackers from feeding millions of fake votes into the same data store?

They would not have access to the legitimate one-time codes in my example.

In general, thinking about it again, I think the model where the polling stations feed the data has more potential. It can only be a backup to other mechanisms of course, but in some situations (if the voting process as a whole "works", but there are trust problems in some parts of the voting process) an important one.

And what does arranging the data store into a blockchain do?

Transparency. A public blockchain (assuming it works as expected) would greatly reduce the possibility to manipulate the database.

Let's take the Venezuelan example again: After the fraud the Electoral Commission said that "our database was hacked", so they tried to base the fraud on the lack of trust in the database infrastructure. In the case there was a public blockchain with the results by polling station, signed by the election officers, this would not be possible. While you can reach a similar level of transparency if the votes and/or results were fed into a traditional database structure directly and the infrastructure is safe, a blockchain would make that task probably easier, above all if there are trust issues with the entity administering the database infrastructure.

It's worth noting here that only the very largest blockchain networks, e.g. Bitcoin, are significantly resistant to 51% attacks. [...] You could help things with a PoS model, but that would defeat the purpose of this sort of distributed network (which wouldn't make sense to be blockchain in terms of the data structure, since votes aren't a ledger and aren't chained like transactions are).

I agree that's a challenge. But I don't know why you consider a PoS model "defeating the purpose" of this network. If it's a big and established PoS network where the individual state/municipality/country isn't able to attack it with its own resources, it could work in my opinion.

I have asked, on every venue available to me, for documented design wins for blockchain that is not related to cryptocurrencies or NFTs. I have thus far been given exactly zero examples.

I partly agree here about "do it on blockchain" being often wrong. But the votes would be a bit similar to "NFTs", even if they are not tradeable. They are unique data snippets and their reason to be on chain is only to "prove they exist". Ideas like OpenTimestamps work quite similar.

I'm also very skeptic about an "online voting" system based on blockchain tech because the potential for manipulation is simply too high (from malware to identity theft). That's also why in my answer I mention relatively small improvements to traditional and established processes which could perhaps work and increase transparency a bit more.

[Yatsan]

I've stumbled across a few smart contracts built on the Ethereum blockchain which allows you to cast your vote using ETH. Given the immutable nature of most blockchain networks, it's almost impossible to commit voter fraud. Crypto/Blockchain tech is also being used for decentralized identities, unlocking limitless potential for real world applications. Would you imagine a system like this being implemented for general elections? Imagine being able to vote for your preferred presidential candidate using Blockchain tech. There should be no need to vote physically at the polling station or even send ballots by mail. Everything will be done at home in a secure manner. For complete security/reliability, governments can build on top of either the Bitcoin or Ethereum blockchains.

What are your thoughts? Will governments eventually use public blockchain networks to allow citizens to cast their vote? If not, why? Do you think we're still early to see something like this implemented at a large scale?

Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Your innovative idea of applying blockchain technology to elections gives much promise. It tightly couples smart contracts to electronic platforms like Ethereum, increasing the security and transparency of the process, while reducing the possibility of voter fraud through the immutable feature of the blockchain. More importantly, this system can be greatly improved and optimized at the level of security through signature checking systems. There are many problems to be taken under consideration. Some of the other issues that surfaced are the complete security of not only the blockchain itself but also its environs, for example, the devices used and the internet connections, and privacy, in that it is hard to monitor for sleeping votes clearly and anonymously. Another issue is that technology would only be widely adopted if voters are comfortable with it, which is not the case. Moreover, another problem is scalability winning over legal and regulatory hurdles for such systems, the creation of new systems, gaining public confidence through testing, and extensive learning since blockchain has to consume networks operating in many special elections. While there is much promise in blockchain voting, we may well be at a very nascent stage in seeing this way of voting become relevant. The technology is still developing, and incremental steps added to the process of voting may eventually lead to more options being accepted in the future.

[o48o]

I've seen countless projects do this and have been laughed at when I told people who are against blockchain (not even about bitcoin or cryptocurrency, just literally blockchain) when I told them about how blockchain could be so versatile when it comes to data storage and access. Applications like this are just something to be proud about cause now I have more ways to rub the blockchain's potential for reinventing the future in more ways than one lol. But in all seriousness, I think once we get the government a little more tame towards cryptocurrency and the idea of a blockchain-powered infrastructure, we would definitely see applications like these and more being integrated into our daily lives. Purchases, police reports, government audits, you name it.

Hold on, there are some weird claims in there. Blockchain isn't effective for storing lots of data, and what's the point for that anyway? And frankly i don't see blockchain as versatile either. It's just decentralized ledger. It can be used for few things but that's it. The fact is that in most cases decentralized ledger is unnecessary, slow, bulky and not costs-effective.

Right after ico fomo this was more common knowledge, because back then they tried to glue it on anything and claim it's relevant and necessary. Some people seem to think that they were scams because they crashed in price. When in reality, reason why they crashed in price seems to be ignored. Blockchain isn't for most things.